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Metagame Workshop

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I like the idea of that drampa but I do think magikingdra might be right building a team already can take a while having 18 would be crazy

is this a meta already or an idea?

switches physical moves and special moves so mega punch is special and flash cannon is physical now
 
Minimized Cup
banner by me.. well.. font by whoever made it​

Metagame premise
The Pokemon's highest level it can be is adjusted to balance its BST (Base Stats Total), but the levels' average is around 5 so a lot of Pokemon that aren't legal at these levels are not allowed, meaning that the meta is very, but very different than Scalemons.
The formula for calculating the level for your Pokemon is the one below:

(300-BST)/200+7
(this formula's result is the highest level allowed for a Pokemon)​
The BST (Base Stat Total) you use for calculation is the Pokemon's BST rounded up or down, based on which hundred is it closer to.
For example, Palkia, with a BST of 680, calculates its level with a BST of 700, while Chansey, with a BST of 450 calculates its level with a BST of 400.

I'll make it simpler.

BST || Level
700 || 3
600 || 4
500 || 5
400 || 6
300 || 7
200 || 8​

The formula is made to balance out the Pokemon's (Pokemon as in plural) stats so the format will consist of Pokemon that are only available at baby-low levels while the Pokemon that are stronger in standard tiers (for example ones with high BST) and the Pokemon that are weaker in standard (for example LC) will both be as strong as each other, having equal power; creating an incredibly different and unique meta.


Potential bans and threats
Potential (<-- sort of) bans
1. Dragon Rage, Sonic Boom
I feel lucky that someone reminded me to update the bans and add these.. I forgot to mention these are banned for obvious reasons: in low levels these are literally OHKO moves, which is so out-dragon-rageous (ha get it? :P) that when I found out about it, it shocked my heart with a Sonic Boom (bBOopP BboOPp)
2. Huge Power, Fur Coat, Thick Club, Deep Sea Tooth, Deep Sea Scale, Light Ball (Looking at you Pikachu)
In my opinion, the fact that these are banned should be obvious. Every Pokemon's stats are balanced so each pokemon's strengths would actually be strengths and not just compared to itself but in comparison to other Pokemon. So an item/ability that doubles the effectiveness of a Pokemon's already balanced strength under these circumstances absolutely is overpowered.

3. Tail Glow
The reasoning for that basically is the same as the Power-Doubling abilities. Tail Glow's damage boost is extremely huge, and the fact that you can end up dealing almost as much damage as 2 hits with a Choice Band or a Choice Specs, over 2 turns, without being locked into using a certain move, is outrageous (in a bad way for the said move's hope for being allowed :P).

4. Snorlax, Munchlax
Snorlax's bulk in this metagame is impressive. Did I say impressive? I meant very impressive. Did I say very impressive? I meant too impressive. A monster with huge special bulk and access to Curse with recoveries such as Rest, or Berry Juice which almost heals two thirds of Snorlax's health and the move Recycle which lets you repeat the use of that item, along with a decent Attack stat whose base stat is equal to the perfectly astounding Special Defense stat, lets it be a very effective wall AND a Defensive set-up Sweeper. Not to mention that since Berry Juice activates at 1/2 Health, Curse Snorlax has access to Thick Fat while it still can eat its berry even when its HP is higher than 1/4. While the Curse set is incredibly good, it can also utilize a Belly Drum set to get a staggering boost to its Attack stat, with humongous bulk to set it up, access to either of Thick Fat to have key resistances in Ice and Fire, or Immunity in case the team doesn't need it so Snorlax can ignore Toxics without Rest, and a very impressive Attack stat as I mentioned earlier to abuse.
In conclusion, Snorlax ('s heart) is broken (because it's banned :thonk:) and should not be allowed.

5. Smeargle
This Pokemon gets to be level 8, has the best speed tier, and has access to Belly Drum+Extreme Speed and Nasty Plot+Boomburst, with all kinds of perfect coverage you could only dream of. This Pokemon absolutely is broken. End of (another) story

6. Parental Bond+Seismic Toss
Did I say that the Power-Doubling abilities are banned for obvious reasons? I guess that I didn't show you the definition of "banned for obvious reasons". Maybe I don't need to because Parental Bond Seismic Tosses deal in OU 100 damage twice for each use which is unbalanced over there, while in this meta its mechanics are not different. As much as the damage this combination deals to the average Pokemon in this meta is a lot lower than the damage it deals to the average OU Pokemon, it's a fact that it can still KO Pokemon in this meta with 3 hits which is absurd.
This ban is for a good reason. End of story (bop).

7. Shadow Tag/Arena Trap
Broken in OU. Broken in UU. Broken in RU. Lovely in Ubers because Mgar is <3.
Banned BOP

8. Eevium Z
Eevee has access to Adaptability, has great stats, and Eevium Z doubles every of its stats by 2 in 1 turn. It can't even be revenge-killed by Mega Lucario: 252+ SpA Adaptability Lucario-Mega Vacuum Wave vs. +2 8 HP / 0 SpD Eevee: 8-12 (29.6 - 44.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO .
While Eevee kills it in return, +2 236+ Atk Adaptability Eevee Return vs. 16 HP / 72 Def Lucario-Mega: 21-25 (100 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO . Eevee only needs 2 moves for the set to be effective: Last Resort and Return. After you use Return, you can spam Last Resort and dish out so much damage. The only issue with this, specifically with the moveset, is that Eevee is walled by Ghost types unless it runs Bite, but then it's forced to use Bite before it can use Last Resort, which is a bad thing considering that it's likely that a big part of the teams won't have a Ghost type, especially when there are only 2 good ones: Gastly and Duskull --> Ghost types being limited in their number is another reason why Eevium Z is broken.
So, in the end, Eevium Z is not good for the meta and shall be banned.


Potential threats
1. Mega Kangaskhan
Speaking of Parental Bond, Mega Kangaskhan still is an incredibly good offensive threat with Power-Up Punch that works as a Swords Dance that deals damage of a type, providing coverage against Steel- and Rock-types, with Sucker Punch for offensive Ghost-type threats (and many frail attackers), With a filler in the last move slot such as Crunch to hit defensive Ghost-types when they are not attacking, Earthquake to provide a stronger coverage move against Steel- and Rock-types, Fake Out to revenge-kill weakened threats that are faster, and Toxic to cripple switches that would otherwise switch into Kangaskhan's attacks and eat them for breakfast (assuming there are any lmao).

2. Swords Dance Users (especially the Mega ones and the bugging ones)
Mega Pinsir's and Mega Absol's speed tiers are higher than average, with good Stabs such as Return and Quick Attack in Pinsir's case and Knock Off and Sucker Punch in Absol's case. They are armed with great Attack stats and are a few of the meta's stronger Pokemon. Mega Heracross is the same, although it doesn't "clean" or "sweep" weakened teams, and doesn't revenge-kill anything, but it still is a great wall breaker: the more passive the opponent's team, the better is Heracross's effectiveness. There also is Swords Dance Scizor, which can be a sweeper with a defensive set up Swords Dance set (also Curse is useable, I guess) (also a defensive pivot if it has U-turn), could also be a wall breaker in addition to that if it is an offensive set up set, and could be an offensive pivot and a late-game "cleaner" with Choice Band.
Edit: (

3. Nasty Plot Users (well Pokemon with access to Nasty Plot, one uses it and the other doesn't)
Togekiss is a great one if not the best. It has very impressive offensive stats (cough SpA cough, cough Speed cough) and Flinches everything to death with its Air Slashes. Too good, end of story (bop). (Porygon-Z? I know that it's great but.. porygon)

4. Guts Users
Larvitar gets to be level 7, which already is a good thing going for it. Now, it has Dragon Dance, Ground/Rock STAB, Guts with Flame Orb.. Add Sand into the mix and you get an extremely powerful sweeper. Not to mention that because of the low level HP stats, the Burn damage is only 1 HP damage each turn which makes the damage recoil very light in comparison to its reward. Now, there is Makuhita (credit for M3ggo for finding out about that threat) which gets to be level 8, and with its base attack stat it has 24 Attack. Wow, just wow. It has Bulk Up to set up and break more easily, Close Combat as strong STAB, Fire Punch to hit the Bug types that resists your STAB and fake out to get the burn before something out-speeds you.

5. Sand
I already have talked about Larvitar which abuses Sand by having its Special Defense multiplied by 1.5 in Sand, but there also is Drilbur which can run a Life Orb Swords Dance breaker/sweeper set, with Sand Force to hit even harder, but a lot more commonly run with Sand Rush to out-speed a lot of the metagame threats, having Ground/Rock coverage and can also utilize Rapid Spin or Stealth Rock to set or control hazards. None doubt the power of Sand in this metagame.

5. Chansey
Great Special wall, no doubt. It has always been one and it also is in this meta, being able to wall many Special Attackers

6. Manaphy
As much as Tail Glow's ban nerfs Manaphy, Manaphy still is a very strong Pokemon in this meta. It can run an offensive set of Calm Mind to boost its power and coverage of 3 attacks: Surf/Scald, Energy Ball and Ice beam, which almost is perfect coverage. It can also run a Choice Spectacles (Spectacles and a tentacle) set with the usual 3 attacks coverage, with either of: both Surf and Scald, or, 1 of Flash, Confide, Charm, Heal Bell, Sleep Talk to abuse a Foonguss that tries to Spore the Manaphy, Reflect, or Light Screen.
It can also run a sweeper/wall breaker set that counters Blissey with Calm Mind, Rain Dance, Scald (if Life Orb) or Surf (if Waterium Z), and rest, which lets Manaphy recover all of its hit points upon use while not staying asleep due to Hydration if Rain is set up. That way Manaphy can break walls, sweep, and maybe beat Sun teams (beware chlorophyll Grasses). Manaphy overall is an impressive Pokemon.

7. Sun
The only viable Pokemon who can viably utilize the Rain weather is Manaphy, and there are only 2 Sand abusers and only 1 Sand setter in this meta (Larvitar and Drilbur), but Sun utilizes Grass-type Chlorophyll users and it helps very much with these match-ups. Sun has Torkoal as a bulky setter while it also has Ninetales which works both as a Sun setter and abuser (except it doesn't sweep); so Sun is not limited to 1 setter unlike the other weathers but it also can run 2 viable setters in 1 team with a lot of success. In the end, Sun is a threat that every team needs to take into account and prepare for.

8. Espeon
This Pokemon gets access to Magic Bounce to stop Toxic or paralyze or anything, Calm Mind to set up, Wish for Recovery, Stored Power to abuse its set-up, Celebrate to use with the Z-move to work as a sweeper for more offensive teams, Dazzling Gleam to lure Dark types.. It's a great Pokemon overall and a great force in this metagame.

9. Gastly
Gastly has almost unresisted STAB moves in Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave, and its best switch is Pawniard which dies to Hidden Power Fighting. Gastly has a great speed tier and a huge Special Attack stat, making it a very strong Choice Spectacles user.


Questions for the community.
I have none in mind (bobbity bop)
besides one that's slightly silly.. how do you make a VR (not relevant which is why I said that I have none in mind. bobbity bop bop)



BIGGGEST EDIT OF MY LIFE: SUNKEN IS VIABLE
Sunkern @ Life Orb / Grassium Z / Groundium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll / Solar Power
Level: 8
EVs: 236 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb

Sun teams are a lot better in this meta since rain teams are very bad (unless you can say that Rain teams are good when there's no available Drizzle users but more than 1 viable Drought user)

Sunkern's stats are 25 HP, 8 Attack (bop), 12 Defense, 18 SpA, 13 Special Defense, and 17 Speed. That's great for such a Pokemon.

Although there is Rain Dance Manaphy..

Feel free to leave a like if you think I deserve it. Not asking for it, but if you think that I deserve it then please bother, it can't be that much of a trouble if you think that it was a good post/meta (if you don't then I'm sorry that you decided to read this part of the post :C )


BTW eviolite is banned
 
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Would anyone be interested in an OM based on the Battle Arena from Emerald's Battle Frontier. For anyone unfamiliar, I'll let Bulbapedia explain the rules (edits from me are in blue).

The Battle Arena pits two Pokémon against one another for three rounds. If both Pokémon last all three rounds, they are rated on how they battled in three aspects, and the Pokémon with the higher score wins, and the losing Pokémon leaves battle. If they somehow tie, both Pokémon leave battle. A knockout results in an automatic win for the Pokémon that is still standing.

Pokémon are scored on their mind, skill, and body. The Pokémon with the better rating in each category scores two points, while a tie will award one point to each Pokémon.

  • Mind judges Pokémon on their offensive style. One point is awarded if an attack that deals damage is chosen for use (except Counter, Mirror Coat, Metal Burst, and Bide, which do not award points, and Fake Out, which deducts one point), and one point is deducted if Protect, Detect, Baneful Bunker, King's Shield, Spiky Shield, or Endure was chosen. All other moves do not award points. The Pokémon with the higher number of points wins the two points in the overall judgment.
  • Skill judges Pokémon on accuracy. One point is awarded if an attack lands successfully, while two points are deducted if it does not, unless it was caused by Protect, Detect, Endure, Baneful Bunker, King's Shield, Spiky Shield, or Fake Out, in which no points are deducted. The Pokémon with the higher number of points wins the two points in the overall judgment.
  • Body judges the amount of HP remaining at the end of the third round compared to their amount at the start of the first. The Pokémon with the better ratio wins the two points in the overall judgment.
Additionally, moves that force switches, like Roar and Baton Pass, fail. U-turn, Volt Switch, Circle Throw, and Dragon Tail, has they existed, probably would have dealt damage but not switched.

Also, Pokemon order is decided before the battle starts, so you can't chose which mon to send in next. This means the order of your Pokemon is important. Is your first Pokemon likely to lose to an Electric type? Put a Ground type in your second slot.

With that out of the way, what are the threats?

Golisopod

golisopod.gif


While Emergency Exit does come with a few perks, it is, by and large, a detrimental ability. With switching disabled, Golisopod it capable of using its good bulk to tank hits and hit back hard without fear of being pulled out of the fray.


Snowballers

greninja-ash.gif
blacephalon.gif
magearna.gif
gyarados-f.gif


Because there isn't any switching, if your opponent is weakened and you send one of these mons in, there isn't much your opponent can do to avoid the pain train. And if their stop for it isn't until a few mons down the line, it may not be a stop anymore once it arrives.


Shedinja

shedinja.gif


As Arena Tycoon Greta demonstrates, Shedinja can be devastating in this format. If it ends facing something that can't touch it, that Pokemon is as good as dead. It's especially effective as a final mon because of this trait, and can turn around the match on the spot if the opponent has run out of answers to it.


Questions:

With the advent of team preview, should team order be decided at the start of the battle or during team building?

Should the format be "bring 6 chose 3", "bring 6 chose 6", "bring 3 chose 3", or something else?

Any possible unbans? I think Deoxys-D might warrant an unban, as defensive play doesn't sound like it will be very good. Also maybe Aegislash, as it's punished for using King's Shield.
 
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So I'm gonna talk about an alternate proposal for that Let's Go inspired metagame I suggested a few posts back, Let's Go Speculate, based on some new info on the games.

So apprently, there was no option on the Let's Go demo at E3 to equip Pokemon with items. It could just be a demo thing for all we know, but if not, that means no items!

So in light of that, I'm wondering if it'd be best to take the "very uncertain things are gone" approach. This means no items, tutor moves, and egg moves (maaaaybe abilities too but since natures are confirmed, that feels a lot more washy so I'll ignore that for now).

Now what does this mean? Turns out, it makes this metagame very similar to a popular tournament gamefreak hosted in ORAS: Kanto Classic! I actually wrote about it here, so a lot of things will be similar! https://www.smogon.com/articles/kanto-classic

There ARE differences though with the lack of tutor and egg moves. Lemme explain them!

1: The Golems are the only viable things that learn Stealth Rock. Yep, not even Chansey or Clefable get them now, so the Golems will likely be verrry common!

2: Chansey doesn't get Seismic Toss. I imagine its still usable, but thats a really big blow to its usability!

3: No ExtremeSpeed Dragonite. Not a huuuge deal. but it'll make Dragonite a bit easier to revenge kill!

4: No Curse Snorlax. Oh jesus that's actually a big blow to its viability o_O. Rest Talk will still be good though. Also no Pursuit... On the bright side, it can get away with Earthquake now that Gengar doesn't have Levitate anymore!

5: NOTHING gets Defog. Yeah thats REALLY gonna pressure people to use Rapid Spinners... good thing we got Starmie and Sandslash though! Blastoise gets Rapid Spin as well I guess, not sure if its worth it over Starmie though.

There's more minute stuff as well, but those are the top 5 ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyways, lets cover the other big difference: the Alolan formes! I can think of 3 major ones off of the top of my head.

Alolan Muk: This will probably be by far the best Dark-type. While Pursuit is locked out because its an egg move, its hard to be a better check to Psychic-types than Alolan Muk. As a bonus, it also blasts Clefable since its by far the best Poison-type too!

Alolan Golem: As it turns out, losing the 4x Water-type weakness means that Alolan Golem can survive even max SpA Starmie Scald with investment in Special Defense. Meanwhile, it doesn't even need Attack investment to OHKO max HP Starmie with Galavanize Return! This means that Starmie is NOT a good way to spin rocks off vs this thing, which is huge. This is why I mentioned Sandslash: Sandslash walls the crap out of Alolan Golem, so its actually a damn good answer vs it, at the cost of being waaay slower than Starmie, which is problematic vs Gengar. On the flip side, Alolan Golem's 4x Earthquake weakness means it deals with most physical attackers a lot worse.

Alolan Ninetales: The only other auto weather changer is regular Ninetales, but unlike that, Alolan Ninetales can set up Aurora Veil. With no offensive items, this can make it easy to set up some nasty sweepers, granted they'll have a harder time sweeping too without their items!

There are a couple other Alolan formes I'd be interested in trying too, but they feel like less surefire bets.

Alolan Sandslash: Oh hey another Rapid Spinner, and a Steel-type at that! That Ice typing is doing it NO favors though, even if I feel like even without it, it'd lose to the main Fire- and Fighting-types anyways, so it might work out idk. Doesn't do nearly as well vs Golem as regular Sandslash, but I do appreciate the handy Dragon-type resist for Outrage shenigans. You could use it with Slush Rush too I guess.

Alolan Persian: Fur Coat is a pretty bad ass ability vs physical attackers, but I'm not sure Alolan Persian really does much besides sit there, since Foul Play being an egg move is a huge bummer to be honest!

Alolan Exeggutor: Dragon / Grass isnt really a great typing with all those weaknesses, but it does learn Trick Room for some reason, and it has a much higher Special Attack than Dragonite, so it could be useful? Also, under Trick Room, the grass-type means it can at least nuke Water-types not named Slowbro!

Alolan Marowak: It's hard to understate just how much the loss of Thick Club sucks for Alolan Marowak, but the reason I'm still curious about it is because Lightning Rod makes it an incredible check to Electric-types. Don't use it as a spin blocker though, it loses to all of them lol

So I'm curious, are you guys more interested in this more hardline approach to doing "Let's Go Speculate", or would the previous approach be better?

EDIT: Note regardless of which one people prefer, I'm not gonna submit anything until next month, in case Gamefreak stops being so cagey about this stuff lol
 
Rose_Warrior said:
Boostermons:
pokemon gain +1 to the + stat and +1 to the - stat if it is a neutral stat which if a stat is both +- it will give +2 to that stat
Click to expand...
So by neutral stat, you're referring to the neutral natures? Hardy (Attack), Docile (Defense), Serious (Speed), Bashful (Sp. Attack), and Quirky (Sp. Defense)? I don't see a reason not to use a neutral nature, in that case.
 
Rose_Warrior said:
but if I run a jolly lets say alakazm I will get +1 to speed and +1 to special rather then if I were to run bashful which gives me +2 to special
Click to expand...
Oh, I thought you said you'd give -1 to the lowered stat. That makes more sense. Yeah, I'd be down for this meta. Unaware and Haze are gonna be a lifesavers, especially since most mons will be running otherwise crap natures.
 
Hello, everyone. While I was looking at various pet mods around here, I've noticed that no one has mentioned Joim's pet mod that never got completed: Skillmons. Original thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/skillmons-coming-back-soon™.3524601/

I talked with some people and it seems like there could be a player-base for it, if it was revived. Would anyone be interested in proposing its revival and full realization? It seems like a great potential OM/Pet Mod. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 
James Jimmy said:
Hello, everyone. While I was looking at various pet mods around here, I've noticed that no one has mentioned Joim's pet mod that never got completed: Skillmons. Original thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/skillmons-coming-back-soon™.3524601/

I talked with some people and it seems like there could be a player-base for it, if it was revived. Would anyone be interested in proposing its revival and full realization? It seems like a great potential OM/Pet Mod. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
I like the idea and would be down for its revival
 
Reposting one of the interesting meta last gen by Eevee General. Hopefully he will revive this.

Custom Power

Metagame Premise: The first move in each of your mon’s moveslot becomes your Hidden Power type. This allows mons to have coverage they lack.
Example:

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf (Electric)
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind

Banlist: OU banlist

Buffed mons:
1. Mainly mons that lacks coverage
2. Mons that needs good STABs
3. Extremespeed / Boomburst users (though less powerful than Metagamiate due to no x1.2 boost, so it’s easier to check).
 
Chopin Alkaninoff said:
Reposting one of the interesting meta last gen by Eevee General. Hopefully he will revive this.

Custom Power

Metagame Premise: The first move in each of your mon’s moveslot becomes your Hidden Power type. This allows mons to have coverage they lack.
Example:

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf (Electric)
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind

Banlist: OU banlist

Buffed mons:
1. Mainly mons that lacks coverage
2. Mons that needs good STABs
3. Extremespeed / Boomburst users (though less powerful than Metagamiate due to no x1.2 boost, so it’s easier to check).
Click to expand...

volcarona.gif

Ground (Volcarona)
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane / Flamethrower / Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

My precious Volcarona no longer needs to chose between being walled by Heatran and being walled by Toxapex.


zeraora.gif

Ice (Zeraora)
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Plasma Fists
- Fire Punch
- Close Combat

Pretty self explanatory.


diggersby.gif

Ground (Diggersby)
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Smack Down

Another OM where Diggersby gets STAB on Foul Play.


greninja.gif

Literally Any Type (Greninja)
Ability: Protean
- Literally Any Move

This sounds scary. Is your team struggling with a specific type? Greninja's got your back.


blacephalon.gif

Ground/Grass (Blacephalon)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast

Unfortunately, Blacephalon can't get HP Fighting, but with a strong Ground or Grass (or Water, or Bug, or Steel) move, it can finally hit Tyranitar for meaningful damage.


clefable.gif

Why no HP Fairy? (Clefable)
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off

RIP
 
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
Iv: 30 special attack special defense
- extreme speed
- Thousand Waves
- Substitute
- Coil

arcanine has fire extreme speed

noivern has flying

sky attack tapu koko with hp fairy? XD or maybe brave bird or return

kartana finally has steel stab

ban kyurem maybe?
bolt beam using fusion bolt and return does not sound fun

xurkitree finally has has a 90 bp 100% acc hp ice or the less accurate 110 basicly a blizzard with thunder

what about hoopa he no longer needs to settle for a weak 80 bp move now he has a 120 bp move special wise or he could have gunk shot become psychic

did some one say last resort diancie XD use diamond storm in normal form then mega and go to town with 140 bp physical fairy move or a 140 bp ground move to hit pretty much anything neutrally

trick room rejoice with mega camerupt finally having a rock move that is special to hit stuff with

and why not just put regigi gigas in there using drain punch as normal and give him a band XD

double edge turning into anything you want for beedrill what?

quick attack + bullet punch mega scizor?

flying stab uturn for landorus or just go return

psychic fighting and dark for alakazam?

bullet seed turn into a ground move for haracross so having rock and ground coverage along with fighting?

Charizard-y using solar beam as a fire type move in the sun?

mega blastoise using water type dragon pulse?

weaviles ice fake out?


I know a lot of these are very stupid but hey
 
OH! Important question regarding Custom Power: How does the mechanic interact with Z-Moves? I ask because the mechanic is based on Hidden Power, and Z Hidden Power is Breakneck Blitz. So in your Keldeo example, would Surf turn into Gigavolt Havoc or Hydro Vortex. In the case of the former, some interesting consequences arise. On one hand, it limits Z move types to a mon's movepool. On the other hand, it lets mons almost have 5 moves at once.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
OH! Important question regarding Custom Power: How does the mechanic interact with Z-Moves? I ask because the mechanic is based on Hidden Power, and Z Hidden Power is Breakneck Blitz. So in your Keldeo example, would Surf turn into Gigavolt Havoc or Hydro Vortex. In the case of the former, some interesting consequences arise. On one hand, it limits Z move types to a mon's movepool. On the other hand, it lets mons almost have 5 moves at once.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don’t have the answer to this question yet because I don’t know how it will be coded. This meta was a thing last gen so there was no Z-moves.

But last gen, Fire Brave Bird + Gale Wings DO have priority while Flying Return + Gale Wings do NOT. This means that Abilities checks the ORIGINAL type of the move. If ths meta will be coded similar way, I assume Z-move will be the same, checking the original typing.
 
Hi,
I thought about a new OM called "Hidden Gift". In this one, Hidden Power depends of the moves of the other pokemons of the team.
Let's take an example:

We have a Landorus-T with HP Flying. Now there are 2 possibilities:
- if no other pokemon in the team has a Flying type move then HP Flying works normally
- if there are other pokemons in the team with flying type moves then HP Flying will become one of these moves randomly. If there is only one other flying type move, HP Flying will become this one obviously.

Smeargle is banned.
OU Closes
Some moves cannot be copied : Belly Drum, Chatter, Geomancy, Lovely Kiss, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, Sticky Web, Tail Glow, Transform, Extreme Speed, Z-moves, Quiver Dance, Moves that have the Z-move effect "Attack +1, Defense +1, Sp. Atk +1, Sp. Def +1, Speed +1
 
Noctoleon said:
Hi,
I thought about a new OM called "Hidden Gift". In this one, Hidden Power depends of the moves of the other pokemons of the team.
Let's take an example:

We have a Landorus-T with HP Flying. Now there are 2 possibilities:
- if no other pokemon in the team has a Flying type move then HP Flying works normally
- if there are other pokemons in the team with flying type moves then HP Flying will become one of these moves randomly. If there is only one other flying type move, HP Flying will become this one obviously.

Smeargle is banned.
OU Closes
Some moves cannot be copied : Belly Drum, Chatter, Geomancy, Lovely Kiss, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Spore, Sticky Web, Tail Glow, Transform, Extreme Speed, Z-moves, Quiver Dance, Moves that have the Z-move effect "Attack +1, Defense +1, Sp. Atk +1, Sp. Def +1, Speed +1
Click to expand...

I really like the idea of your meta :)
I think that a better name for the meta would be "Hidden Assist" because the mechanics are very similar to the move Assist.
By the way, I think you should ban the move V-create because it seems to me too broken; offensive Pokemon that use their Stab moves, where their Stab moves are Resisted by the Steel type, V-create could be used to get an OHKO on Steel-types through HP Fire unless the Steel type is a Heatran, for example. V-create has too much damage in my opinion to be allowed. Victini with Choice Band is not so bad that banning V-create is not justifiable due to Victini's viability.
 
Yoavgreninja said:
I really like the idea of your meta :)
I think that a better name for the meta would be "Hidden Assist" because the mechanics are very similar to the move Assist.
By the way, I think you should ban the move V-create because it seems to me too broken; offensive Pokemon that use their Stab moves, where their Stab moves are Resisted by the Steel type, V-create could be used to get an OHKO on Steel-types through HP Fire unless the Steel type is a Heatran, for example. V-create has too much damage in my opinion to be allowed. Victini with Choice Band is not so bad that banning V-create is not justifiable due to Victini's viability.
Click to expand...
Thanks :)
You're right about V-create xD I thought about it but I forgot to write it .
 
about Hidden Assist (I'm gonna call it that bc I really like the name), I would 1000% get behind this. There are interesting things to note, such as, that signature moves like Secret Sword and Shadow bone/Spirit Shackle are gonna make certain pokemon extremely dangerous and some others, viable (zam finally has special accurate fighting stab!). Normal and Fairy moves aren't "assistable", so many recover moves such as slack off, recover, and soft-boiled cannot be passed, nor can the likes of espeed, which is good bc I wasn't looking forward to an instant pinsir ban (also suspect Kyurem-B icicle crash is one HP ice away). Additionally, recovery moves like roost and synthesis can be passed, which also begs the question how does PP work if it is based on the pp of hidden power rather than the move itself, then healing is gonna have a HUGE buff. However, I feel as though this is how it should be done because when using assist, the pp that gets used up is the move assist, not the move pulled. stealth rocks could be potentially passed, but that would sacrifice the guaranteed rock type attack slot on your team. I feel the trick of the meta is to find a good move for each type then HP them onto other mons. also, does pulling status moves effect prankster/comatose/other priority abilities and presumably, by extension priority blockers, or does using hidden power in the first place count as an attack. But enough rambling, now for some sets!

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hidden Power [Grass] (Wood Hammer/Horn Leech)
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Defog

The Kartana + Bulu core is back at it again and this time Kartana is stronger than ever. while horn leech is marginally weaker than wood hammer, it is still worth using for the same reason it's used on bulu. Also, wood hammer on kart in grassy terrain is gonna punch a hole in something.


Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Ground] (Thousand Arrows)
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock

Take your pick of powerful ground type to abuse thousand arrows, I chose swampert (though I don't use rain teams) Zygarde on team preview will basically guarantee that the opposing team is using thousand arrows on every ground type, unless PP is shared on one move.


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 132 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Flying] (roost/defog)
- Taunt

I think the best pokemon to pair this with would be scizor, defog would be nice, but it would probably be better to run some other spinner and give the spinner roost instead (my first thought is claydol or blastoise but w/e).


that's just stuff off of the top of my head for now, but I might come up w/ more later.
 
Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] (Overheat)
- Dragon Pulse
- Taunt / Substitute

Pair this boy with Scarf Blace. It'll be pretty freaking sweet, that's for sure.

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice] (Icicle Crash / Ice Punch)
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Roost / Outrage

Kyurem-Black is broken again, what a surprise.
 
Yung Dramps said:
Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] (Overheat)
- Dragon Pulse
- Taunt / Substitute

Pair this boy with Scarf Blace. It'll be pretty freaking sweet, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Speaking of Blace, it can use HP Grass to blast Tyranitar with Leaf Storm.

EDIT: Made a Stored Trip spam team for Hidden Assist, but didn't want to double post.

Volcarona @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Psychic] (Stored Power)
- Fiery Dance

Barbaracle @ White Herb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Hidden Power [Dark] (Power Trip)
- Liquidation
- Cross Chop

Magearna @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hidden Power [Psychic] (Stored Power)
- Shift Gear
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hidden Power [Bug] (Quiver Dance)
- Stored Power
- Roost
- Substitute

Krookodile @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Hidden Power [Steel] (Shift Gear)
- Power Trip
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Defog
- Hidden Power [Flying] (Roost)
 
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