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Metagame Workshop

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Angry2 said:
Alphability
Metagame premise: All abilities get replaced by the next one alphabetically.
So for example, All Fire starters get Bulletproof instead of Blaze, Grass starters get Own Tempo instead of Overgrow, and Water starters get Tough Claws instead of Torrent

Potential bans and threats: OU clauses.
So far, I am not sure what the potential bans might be, but Tapu Lele is an obvious one :P

Questions for the community: So... what do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Alphability already is an existing OM from ORAS or previous gens, you might want to look it up on ROM
 
InvalidOS said:
Metagame Jamboree

Concept: A Pokemon named after an OM will function under that OM's mechanics.
Clauses: Standard Clauses, Metagame Clause (A meta's additional clauses are applied to any Pokemon subject to their mechanics.), Banned Meta Clause (Naming a Pokemon after a banned meta does not have any effect.), Shared Power Clauses (Illegal abilities can not be activated by Shared Power, Only one ability of a Pokebilities Pokemon can be activated by Shared Power, Shared Power can not use items from Dual Wielding.)
Bans: Metagame bans, using certain metas (Banned metagames are in the spoiler "Banned Metagames")
Threats: Pretty much any threat of a legal meta is a threat here. Triage Buzzwole, 350 Cup Spritzee, Inheritance Celesteela, all of them could be considered threats here.
Questions for the Community: Are there any other metas that should be banned or unbanned? Any Pokemon that should be banned or unbanned? Are there any problems this meta may have?

So let's start with this Mimikyu set.
mimikyu.gif

Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Drain Punch

Now, let's say we wanted to make it able to abuse priority. Well, we can do that here!

mimikyu.gif

Fortemons (Mimikyu) @ Shadow Sneak
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Drain Punch

By naming the Mimikyu "Fortemons", we made it able to use Fortemons' mechanics, thus allowing it to get +1 priority on all of it's attacks by having Shadow Sneak as it's item.

Now, let's take a defensive Landorus-Therian.

landorus-therian.gif

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn

There is a lot that could be improved upon here. However, we can make those improvements.

landorus-therian.gif

STABmons (Landorus-Therian) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Beak Blast
- U-turn

Now it actually has Flying-type STAB, and a way to inflict status.
But we could do better...

landorus-therian.gif

STABmons (Landorus-Therian) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thousand Arrows
- Beak Blast
- U-turn

...If Thousand Arrows wasn't restricted in STABmons.

You may also think of having a certain someone on your team...

chansey.gif

Balanced Hackmons (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
- pretty much anything

...but use of Balanced Hackmons is banned, so no Imposter Chansey for you.
As to be expected (hopefully), there are banned metagames that can not be used. There are different groups of metagames that are banned from usage. Here are all of these such groups:

OM Mashups
The reason why these are banned is quite obvious. Balanced Hackmons is placed in this category as it has traits of AAA.

"Nontraditional" Metas
These are metas that stray too far away from the core gameplay of Pokemon. This is definition may seem vague to some, so I'll provide a list of metas in this category:

  • 1v1 (And any metagame based on it, like Chimera)
  • Monotype
  • Suicide Cup
  • Benjamin Butterfree
  • Gods and Followers
  • Godly Gift
  • Pet Mods
Uber-based Metas
Any metagame based on the Ubers tier is in this category. It should be obvious why these are banned.

Other
These are banned for miscellaneous reasons.
  • Ultimate Z
  • OMs that do not affect a Pokemon directly (e.g. All Terrain)
  • OMs that do not affect a Pokemon at all (e.g. Mediocremons)
  • OMs that use names as part of their mechanics (Including this meta)
  • OMs that utilize fainting in their mechanics (Last Will is excluded from this, however)
  • Unofficial OMs
  • OMs that aren't available in Gen 7
Click to expand...

I tried to do some kind of rain team, I don't know if it would work though...
https://pokepast.es/5aca79559e8f1a98
 
hiei-q said:
If i am not wrong, mega gyara is the only dark type in the meta, unless all eeveelutions are allowed, so he might be an overcentraliced pick to stop alakazam and mew (the new lele). With hp fire for scizor and focus blast for magnezone, mega alakazam might be quite threatening. Also every pokemon that resist shadow ball is slower than gengar and weak to focus blast, so gengar has perfect coverage and he can use 2 slots for utility, and being one of the only 2 ghost types is really neat (alowak might be interesting tho, as it checks zapdos reliably)

Edit: i forgot alola muk.
Click to expand...

We have the following: Alolan Muk line, Alolan Raticate line, Alolan Persian line, Mega Gyarados, and Umbreon (all of Eevee's line is legal). As for Gengar, yeah it's a menace. Muk is one of the only safe switch-ins; I think special defense-invested Lickilicky and Snorlax, which have Knock Off and Pursuit, respectively, could also work. At least it can be revenge killed I guess.
 
JTD783 said:
We have the following: Alolan Muk line, Alolan Raticate line, Alolan Persian line, Mega Gyarados, and Umbreon (all of Eevee's line is legal). As for Gengar, yeah it's a menace. Muk is one of the only safe switch-ins; I think special defense-invested Lickilicky and Snorlax, which have Knock Off and Pursuit, respectively, could also work. At least it can be revenge killed I guess.
Click to expand...
Honestly, Gengar might not be that bad, considering all that fat mons that gen 1 now has available. But Aurora Veil Offense teams could be massively annoying though, considering the fact that Alolan-Ninetales will be allowed.
 
JTD783 said:
We have the following: Alolan Muk line, Alolan Raticate line, Alolan Persian line, Mega Gyarados, and Umbreon (all of Eevee's line is legal). As for Gengar, yeah it's a menace. Muk is one of the only safe switch-ins; I think special defense-invested Lickilicky and Snorlax, which have Knock Off and Pursuit, respectively, could also work. At least it can be revenge killed I guess.
Click to expand...

I forgot all alola forms lol.

Another threat this meta has is mega Zard X. His stab combinatiom is unresisted in this meta and there is no lando to check it with intimidate and set up rock. The best way to check it might be throught rain (politoed) +Kyngdra/omastar or cleff, or scarf ditto. Also you can also make him mega evolve into Zard Y, which is more viable now since no sand (i think) and no swampert/ferrothorn/etc (i mean, rain seems less viable now).

Another beast would be pinsir, since aerialite return and earthquake is just resisted by zapdos and aerodactyl i guess.


The best non mega this meta seems to have are alola muk, zapdos, clefable, chansey (rock setter) and scizor (only steel type, besides his counter magnezone and steelix). However, it looks a lot more diverse than gen 1 meta and pokemon nowadays outclassed, like jolteon, might be viable here.
 
hiei-q Zard X can be checked by Slowbro and Rhyperior, and maybe Gyarados (with Intimidate) and Vaporeon. Definitely a big threat.

tmacbalanced Veil will definitely be on the radar for a suspect. Mewnium Z, Kangaskhanite, and Swift Swim are also contenders. Regarding Swift Swim, I'd probably try a team along the lines of Kingdra, Omastar, Zapdos or Dragonite, Poliwrath, Tangrowth, and [insert Rain setter]. The lack of Drizzle is a considerable nerf though.

Sun has Zard Y + Venusaur + Victreebell + some other stuff like Alolan Marowak, Arcanine, and Magmortar.

Stall has Mega Venu + Umbreon + Sylveon + Vaporeon + (Mega) Steelix + (Mega) Scizor + (Mega) Slowbro + Clefable + Crobat + Alolan Persian + Alolan Muk + Chansey + Blissey + Zapdos + Tangrowth + Mew... god help us all.

This took about 5 minutes.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Shadow Sneak

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Discharge
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Scald

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rock Slide

Anyways, there are a variety of playstyles that appear viable on paper, from hyper offense to bulky offense to balance to stall, along with weather teams and most importantly, hilarious meme sets.

Edit reagularman I forgot about Politoed, thanks. Oof owie ouch my meta. Drizzle's definitely on the radar now.
 
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Role Reversal

Concept
When it comes to knowing the essentials of Pokemon, one of the key factors of creating a team is knowing a Pokemon's role. We have sweepers, attackers, walls, tanks, leads and so on. But what if we took Pokemon and gave them a role that completely and utterly contradicts what they currently do? What if the Blissey line was a bunch of fast frail physical attackers? What if Blacephalon and the Sharpedo line were mixed walls? What if Leavanny was a special tank that could remove hazards while switching in multiple times throughout the game? That's the question this pet mod aims to answer, while hopefully creating a fun metagame to go along with this concept.

How Slates Operate
Like with many other pet mods, Role Reversal will be created using slates. These slates will have a few ground rules:
-The Pokemon's stats may be re-arranged how the submitter likes, but the BST must remain the same. Fully evolved mons cannot have a stat below 50, NFEs can't have a stat lower than 40, and LCs can't have a stat lower than 30.
-You may only change one of your Pokemon's typings if they are dual-typed. Monotyped mons can change to any type you want, but they must remain monotype.
-You may add up to 3 new moves. If you're giving a Pokemon a new type, you can give it an additional 2 moves of that type.
-You can change 1 ability of the Pokemon.
-When changing abilities and adding new moves, signature abilities and moves are not permitted. While it doesn't necessarily have to be thematically fitting, you shouldn't make the move/ability choices competely absurd.
-Obviously broken submissions will be disqualified from being voted on.

Bans
Standard OU Banlist + Some unbans depending on if certain normally broken mons are changed or not

About Exclusive Items
-Mega Stones can have their boosts re-destributed. They can't be freely changed, just re-distributed, as well as the Mega abilities being changed. Signature items like Stick and Light Ball can also have their function changed.

Questions for the Community
Idk, just give feedback.
 
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Yung Dramps said:
-You may add up to 3 new moves. If you're giving a Pokemon a new type, you can give it an additional 2 moves of that type.
Click to expand...
If you make something Dragon type, does Draco Meteor count as one of the two additional moves, on account of literally every Dragon mon being able to learn Draco Meteor by definition?
 
H-Moves
Metagame Premise: Pokemon can use H-moves instead of Z-moves, which are hazard versions of the moves that inherit power, typing, accuracy, and effects. As an example, fire punch has 75 bp, so it would do 75% of steath rocks damage. Pikachu would take 9.375% of its health, while Scizor would take 37.5% of its health. It would also keep the 10% chance of burning. H-Leaf Storm would do 140% of rocks damage and lower your special attack by two, but it would ony have a 90% chance of activation. H-moves can not be removed by Rapid Spin and Defog.
Potentail Threats and Bans: All moves with a 100% chance of effects are pretty overpowered on paper, such as nuzzle paralyzing the oppoent's entire time and snarl crippling special attackers. Defiant/Competitive/Contrary combined with H-V-Create might also be strong.
edit: Also H-circle throw/dragon tail
edit 2; Also U-turn, Volt Switch, and Seismic Toss
edit 3: Also Nature's Madness, Super fang, and Night Shade
Questions for the community: Should regular z moves be able to be used? How would exclusive z moves work?
 
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So if I switch Swampert in on H-Leaf Storm, I have a 90% chance to take 70% of my max HP upon switch-in (4x Stealth Rock is half because it's Grass against Water/Ground, times 1.4 equals 70%), and this will lower the currently active Pokemon's SpA by two stages? And only one of these can be used per match?
 
Does H-Circle Throw keep shuffling the opponent's team once they make any switch, unless they pass a 10% miss check or until a ghost randomly gets brought in? What about if the user has Scrappy and/or an accuracy boost at either the time of the H-move, or the time of the switch (in an attempt to shut off one of those two outs)?
 
SadisticMystic said:
Does H-Circle Throw keep shuffling the opponent's team once they make any switch, unless they pass a 10% miss check or until a ghost randomly gets brought in? What about if the user has Scrappy and/or an accuracy boost at either the time of the H-move, or the time of the switch (in an attempt to shut off one of those two outs)?
Click to expand...

I will add Circle Throw and Dragon Tail to the list of moves that should be banned. Thank you for pointing this out.

H-moves are not affected by your pokemon's abilities or stat boosts, but they are affected by your opponent's ability-based immunities. Weather/terrains also affect H-moves. That should cover everything, unless I forgot something.
 
Red_Shaggy said:
H-Moves
Metagame Premise: Pokemon can use H-moves instead of Z-moves, which are hazard versions of the moves that inherit power, typing, accuracy, and effects. As an example, fire punch has 75 bp, so it would do 75% of steath rocks damage. Pikachu would take 9.375% of its health, while Scizor would take 37.5% of its health. It would also keep the 10% chance of burning. H-Leaf Storm would do 140% of rocks damage and lower your special attack by two, but it would ony have a 90% chance of activation. H-moves can not be removed by Rapid Spin and Defog.
Potentail Threats and Bans: All moves with a 100% chance of effects are pretty overpowered on paper, such as nuzzle paralyzing the oppoent's entire time and snarl crippling special attackers. Defiant/Competitive/Contrary combined with H-V-Create might also be strong.
edit: Also H-circle throw/dragon tail
Questions for the community: Should regular z moves be able to be used? How would exclusive z moves work?
Click to expand...

H-U-turn and H-volt switch seem to be really nice giving you always an advantage since you can pivot each time your opponent switches out. However, the match ends after both players set up H-u-turn, and it can even be a stalemate (double regenerator in both teams). If there is no regenerator, the player with more hazzards up may be the winner.

I think you can just say that the haxzard gets any effect that doesnt force switches on either side.

I would love to see teams running mega sceptile to get boosts for nuzzle

How would H-status work?
 
I could say that they dont force switches, but that would be inconsistent with the rules. Also there are no H-status moves because all of them are broken. Editing my post to ban u-turn and volt switch.
 
Gravity Monkey said:
That's so weird and broken that I like it. Also, how would work Follow the Leader? Does the pokemon named gives its movepool, or does the pokemon with this name gain access to the movepool of the first pokemon?
Click to expand...
Now that you mention Follow the Leader, I realized I've never taken it into consideration. I'd probably ban it for now, with possible implementation later.
 
Brodaha said:
This looks pretty cool! I just have a few comments/questions:
-Shouldnt BH be banned because everything would be broken, not because you can have any Ability?
-would there be a metagame clause limiting amount of pokemon from each metagame?
-under threats, you list Inheritance Celesteela but that's a nickname based meta, which is banned.

Otherwise looks very interesting!


Just going to edit in some threats:
Benjamin Butterfree Blissey
Camomons Mawile
Inverse Avalugg
Full Potential Tyranitar
Click to expand...

-BH is banned.
-You already can't have more than 1 Pokemon with the same nickname on the same team.
-Inheritance isn't nickname-based.
 
InvalidOS said:
-BH is banned.
-You already can't have more than 1 Pokemon with the same nickname on the same team.
-Inheritance isn't nickname-based.
Click to expand...
-I know, I was just questioning the category it was banned under.
-Forgot about that, my bad.
-Forgot about that, my bad.
 
Red_Shaggy said:
H-Moves
Metagame Premise: Pokemon can use H-moves instead of Z-moves, which are hazard versions of the moves that inherit power, typing, accuracy, and effects. As an example, fire punch has 75 bp, so it would do 75% of steath rocks damage. Pikachu would take 9.375% of its health, while Scizor would take 37.5% of its health. It would also keep the 10% chance of burning. H-Leaf Storm would do 140% of rocks damage and lower your special attack by two, but it would ony have a 90% chance of activation. H-moves can not be removed by Rapid Spin and Defog.
Potentail Threats and Bans: All moves with a 100% chance of effects are pretty overpowered on paper, such as nuzzle paralyzing the oppoent's entire time and snarl crippling special attackers. Defiant/Competitive/Contrary combined with H-V-Create might also be strong.
edit: Also H-circle throw/dragon tail
edit 2; Also U-turn, Volt Switch, and Seismic Toss
Questions for the community: Should regular z moves be able to be used? How would exclusive z moves work?
Click to expand...

Accelgor @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Final Gambit
- Spikes
- Encore

H-Knock Off can cycle through the opponent's items pretty well, or you can just suicide Accelgor right away to remove their hazard setter right off the bat. It might be worthwhile to have a backup setter in case you feel the need to perform this strat. Spikes and Encore are just standard lead shit.

How do Super Fang/Nature's Madness, Rapid Spin, Synchronoise, Foul Play, Doom Desire/Future Sight, Final Gambit, Eruption/Water Spout, and Last Resort work? Should H-trapping moves (Infestation, Magma Storm, Anchor Shot, etc.) also be banned?
 
JTD783 said:
Kanto Cup

I guess stuff like Updated Kanto (the meta, not the player) and Kanto 2: Gen 1-Pandering Boogaloo work as well.

Concept: With the upcoming release of Pokemon Let's Go, a game which features only first-gen mons, a metagame featuring only these Pokemon could become a reality. What would a meta featuring the original 151 Pokemon look like when accounting for the updates over the past twenty-plus years? This includes but is not limited to: New evolution lines, the addition of Dark, Steel, and Fairy-type Pokemon, the physical/special split, mega evolution, z-moves, alolan variants, and more.

Clauses: Standard Clauses

Bans: Mewtwo, Mewtwonite X, Mewtwonite Y, Gengarite, Arena Trap

Threats: Most mega evolutions will be even more threatening after some of their traditional checks / counters cease to exist.

Questions for the Community: Are some megas and z-moves broken? Which Pokemon have become more or less viable with the updates as well as a much smaller meta? Will the meta be like Gen 1, with a few staple Pokemon and a chess-like battle, or like recent gens, with many viable mons and a less predictable environment? Would people please stop suggesting metagames based on Gen 1, for the love of Arceus?!

I realize that similar suggestions have probably been made in the past. Despite this, I believe that the release of a new Gen 1-centered game warrants at least a discussion about a revamped Gen 1-esque metagame. Ideally it will be competitive and enjoyable. Feel free to roast me now.
Click to expand...
Apparently Theorymon dude came up with this concept om idea a few pages back. Page 80/81 I think.
 
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