I think it's pretty simple yet interesting ! Maybe defenses could be boosted while you're still at full, to make proccing the second wind power boost easier ?
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
I think it's pretty simple yet interesting ! Maybe defenses could be boosted while you're still at full, to make proccing the second wind power boost easier ?
A lot late ik, mb. For mechanic questions, Trick would probably go in some pre-determined order (i.e left to right or right to left) but it would basically just be how trick works normally just doing it twice in one turn, Strength Sap would work like parabolic charge and matcha gotcha where they heal the user based on how much damage they did to each target (in this case scaling based on each foes attack stats), and yeah leech seed would heal the user twice over seeing how that is a possible situation outside of this idea just not common nor as reliable. For the balancing issues, yeah i recognize itd be very hard to balance, that’s kinda why i just went for the 100% moves at first as its a bit hard to visualize just how annoying/broken other things may be, but i currently dont have many ideas to deal with them besides going with flow and banning things as the meta develops. Lastly, i know i cant do anything about the general unpopularity of doubles oms, i just really wanted to make a new idea for one.
PREDICTION MARKETS
Premise: All actions are divided into three categories. Select an advantageous action to get a FREE switch!Explanation: Damaging moves are considered Attacks, status moves are considered Status and switching is considered as Switch. Based on the Action Triangle™ illustrated above, making the correct action will give you a free switch to any Pokemon at the end of the turn.
Example:
Great Tusk @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
Let's pretend there are two similar
facing each other. Headlong Rush, Ice Spinner and Rapid Spin are considered "Attacks", Stealth Rock is considered "Status" and switching into another mon (let's say a 
in the back) is a "Switch". Let's examine the scenarios:1. Nothing changes
If both
Attacks, clicks Stealth Rock OR swaps to , nothing changes.2. Free switch is awarded
- A clicks Headlong Rush while the other switches to - Because "Switch" beats "Attack", the Dragonite is forced to switch to a different mon at the end of that turn.
- A clicks Stealth Rock while the other switches to - Because "Status" beats "Switch", the is then forced to switch out at the end of that turn away from the .
- A clicks Headlong Rush while the other clicks Stealth Rock - Because "Attack" beats "Status", the which used Headlong Rush is forced to switch at the end of that turn.
Banlist: Probably gonna look like OU but slightly different.
Questions & Answers:
1. What happens if you use a move that causes a switch (U-turn, Volt Switch, Teleport, etc.)
lol idk, maybe you don't get the free switch even if you get the prediction?
2. Did you get inspired by Polymarket prediction markets?
hell yea, don't gamble though.
3. Can the Action Triangle™ be changed?
open to suggestion but sure, I just made it up on the spot and thought it was fine like that.
Questions for YOU:
1. Fun meta yay or nay?
2. Anything broken you can think of?
3. Any potentially wacky interactions which should be addressed?
If you did a slight spin on this idea and have 0.5x, 1x and 2x damage at 100%, 50% and 0%/1% respectively then that could be quite interesting as opposed to just increasing the damage and potentially making all matches a sweeping contest.
I think your concept has potential its just in how you decide to do the damage bonus (or penalty).
How do you see your concept playing out in a match? How specifically could your metagame concept play differently to a normal OU match?
Keep working at it!
This depends on how this will be programmed and/or your clarifications, but must you take the free switch?
If you must take the free switch, prankster status spammers could benefit with extra non-volatile status conditions being applied, and or hazards being benefited.
Also, would protect cause an attacker to get a switch? Because if its forced it essentially becomes a reusable red-card.
fun idea and I'd play this, but it's an elevated version ofPREDICTION MARKETSPremise: All actions are divided into three categories. Select an advantageous action to get a FREE switch!
View attachment 832209
Explanation: Damaging moves are considered Attacks, status moves are considered Status and switching is considered as Switch. Based on the Action Triangle™ illustrated above, making the correct action will give you a free switch to any Pokemon at the end of the turn.
Example:
Great Tusk @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
Let's pretend there are two similar
1. Nothing changes
If both
2. Free switch is awarded
Basically, if you make the right predictions, you will be rewarded with a free switch at the end of the turn which translates to insane momentum.
- A
- A
- A
Banlist: Probably gonna look like OU but slightly different.
Questions & Answers:
1. What happens if you use a move that causes a switch (U-turn, Volt Switch, Teleport, etc.)
lol idk, maybe you don't get the free switch even if you get the prediction?
2. Did you get inspired by Polymarket prediction markets?
hell yea, don't gamble though.
3. Can the Action Triangle™ be changed?
open to suggestion but sure, I just made it up on the spot and thought it was fine like that.
Questions for YOU:
1. Fun meta yay or nay?
2. Anything broken you can think of?
3. Any potentially wacky interactions which should be addressed?
Ability: Iron Fist
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch
- Upper Hand
ROCK PAPER SCISSOR DISCOURSE LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOfun idea and I'd play this, but it's an elevated version of
Ability: Iron Fist
- Mach Punch
- Focus Punch
- Upper Hand
I don't think that's a fair claim. In the proposed metagame, you have things to build for and wider goals to reach, different sets to run and presumably different team archetypes, which is very different from actual Pokemon Rock Paper Scissors where there are three total moves.
- It's an oversimplification yes, but the point remains. It takes away from the value of team-building and puts that to making good reads/predictions. While predictions are part of the game, putting them at center stage like this makes the OM RPS-like and uncompetitive.
- At the very least, for the "free switch perk", I would reward the disadvantageous action and punish the advantageous one. It sounds counterintuitive, but makes the game more balanced.
I don't think anyone likes to play a game where you're doubly punished for an action. (yes, I did say I'd play it but still...)
Nah, the intention is to reward good plays and punish bad plays. I want people to feel miserable when they play bad. I want the game to be very swingy and make you feel amazing when you outplay your opponent.
so my friend created a game mode called First Four Moves
you can only use the first four move Pokemon showdown shows.
you can only use the default abilities, and Tera type.
you have to use Pokemon showdowns suggested IV/EV training
you have to use the first item that shows up (usually air balloon but sometimes species specific ie: rusted sword for zacian
the Pokemon legal in this format are the ones in gen 9 anything goes
species clause is enforced
there will be a singles format for this as well as a doubles format
after testing we found that the best and most consistent Pokemon are zacian-crowned calyrex shadow rider and zamazenta crowned
credit to my friend Jackson for the idea and rules (his showdown username is loljagame)
you can only use the first four move Pokemon showdown shows.
you can only use the default abilities, and Tera type.
you have to use Pokemon showdowns suggested IV/EV training
you have to use the first item that shows up (usually air balloon but sometimes species specific ie: rusted sword for zacian
the Pokemon legal in this format are the ones in gen 9 anything goes
species clause is enforced
there will be a singles format for this as well as a doubles format
after testing we found that the best and most consistent Pokemon are zacian-crowned calyrex shadow rider and zamazenta crowned
credit to my friend Jackson for the idea and rules (his showdown username is loljagame)
This would get very boring very fast. The lack of moveset flexibility means that some Pokemon would just be impossible to counter since defensive Pokemon are basically useless. For example, Skeledirge, instead of walling Zacian-Crowned, is now forced to just spam Alluring Voice, Crunch, Curse, and Body Slam. Furthermore, because everyone has the same moves, there is no moveset diversity or any need to predict much.
OMs are fun because they make you have to consider more factors, plus the fact that moves are filtered alphabetically doesn't work well with the viability. May be something here if it was one/two from the list, or as well as last options, just a bit less restriction so there's some strategy in the building half.
bruh my favorite Pokemon is fuecoco so I'm biased af but even I know how bad of a counter that would be
I've played this game mode inside of ag with Jackson and countering with defensive mons is a big deal. for example, hisuain zoroark walls CSR while hiding as a lycanrock, or brick break destroys abomisnow's aroua veil. I get that a ton of mons would be marked off as unuseable but me and Jackson have had real fun countering each other. and while it may not be as complex as mix & mega, or stabmons simplicity is enjoyible. maybe this ruleset isn't perfect for showdown but from experience its worth a shot.
could you please elaborate
You didn't address my argument at all. I said that you completely destroy defensive Pokemon because they now lack recovery and now lack the tools to actually wall top-tier Pokemon. Skeledirge is a decent counter to Zacian-Crowned in regular Ubers that now gets completely destroyed by Zacian-Crowned because it cannot threaten Will-o-Wisp and it lacks recovery.
In fact, offensive Pokemon become ridiculously boring too, because the majority of them now can't use Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, and other setup moves, meaning that Regenerator walls will be basically impossible to defeat. This metagame also fully lacks any hazards and Knock Off, Trick, and Switcheroo also probably don't exist.
I honestly don't even think Calyrex-Shadow is good at all because it can only use Astral Barrage.
Just because you "have had real fun" means almost nothing. This metagame is not competitive and the best Pokemon will be found very quickly due to the lack of moveset diversity and need for prediction.
First of all, I don't play Ubers so I didn't know that skeladirge can be a specific counter to Zacian-Crowned, so I want to apologize for the previous message sounding rude/dismissive.
second, defensive play is valid simply because each specific mon has a forced set, so if you can counter that set you counter that mon if you can pivot well, or stop your opponent from switching via abilities although those abilities are rare (magnizone is an example)
You talked about offensive mons being boring and easily walled by regenerator.
Regenorator is not that good because only one mon has regenerator as its first ability which is tornadus-t and is ironically walled by zacian-crownd plus its not extraordinarily bulky so its not that good of a stall mon (ive tried it so that’s coming from experience)
Also offencive mons are not only playable but very good. For example Zacian-crowned gets a +1 boost from intrepid sword and has STAB behemoth blade coming off of a very impressive attack stat. This is an example of an instant damage dealer, but you also talked about reduced setup moves and while this is true agility, bulk up, and calm mind which ALL have been used well at one point or another
fouth you specifically talked about CSR being bad because it only had astral barrage, but because this gamemode restricts movesets specifically other mons struggle to have multiple great moves, and STAB astral barrage coming off of a 165 spa stat will hurt and that doesn't account for As One boosts. If you were trying to say that it gets walled by normal types it get body press, which might not ohko but will probably do at least 25-50%
Lastly, your final point was really fair. I've never dived too deep into playing OMs, and honestly i don’t know exactly what makes a metagame competitive, and assuming that you have experience in this type of format I will try to be open to suggestions.
My point is that the metagames can all be simplified(a bit oversimplified, but still) to 'A new addition/factor to the game that makes you have to build/play around it to utilize the possibilities.' None of them are inherently restrictive by nature, some it is possible to play completely normally with a normal team, albeit at a disadvantage. The only choices you can actually make, if I am reading this correctly, is the mons you bring - one singular choice, everything else being restricted and hence only creating repetition. These battles wouldn't look like games with a quirk/catch, they'd look like two new players using what mons they see are viable with no idea how to actually build them.
The second point I was trying to make is that because moves are not balanced around their name, it just suddenly 'buffs' some moves and 'nerfs' others with no real method to it. Hazardless metagame, less setup, you know everything the opponent has and that removes some important parts of the game.
I feel like this allows for some insane versatility.
Did you just kill my hazard setter? Well, I can choose to have another.
Slowking used Chilly Reception on Darkrai? I could have that last move be Blizzard and not Ice Beam
Raging Bolt vs an Electric Terrain team? Did you know it gets Rising Voltage?
Although I have to address that it's balanced in that both sides can use it and it becomes a game of knowing what fast ones the opponent can do at any given moment.
Not sure if this is programmable. I also wonder how transform interacts with the gimmick. (If my Ditto transforms into a pokemon that hasn't used its move-on-demand, can I get a move-on-demand for the transformed Ditto? And if it transforms into a pokemon that has used its move-on-demand, do I get access to that move too?
I could have a restriction be that the custom move is only one that no other Pokemon on your team has. Not sure if this is needed until we try the first version.
The best option would be to put a text box where the 4th move would be, and replace it with the move when you enter in a legal one. If you mean programmable generally, then yeah, of course it is, it doesn't require any complex algorithms. I'm sure other metagames have 6 or more moves in that spot. If you mean whether the devs will allow it, that's a different story. The other option is to use a chat command like /setmove <pokemon prefix> <move prefix> where each prefix must match 1 legal Pokemon and move only, like /setmove rill grassyg.
I would say the ditto only has access to the moves the Pokemon has when the ditto transforms, including the Pokemon's custom move. Since ditto can't learn any moves other than Tranform, it wouldn't get a custom move.
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I suggested something very similar recently, and they said it wasn't possible. That being said, I didn't specify how I thought the mechanic could be implemented, though I was also thinking that perhaps the chat could be used as well. Which is to say that I do like this idea, perhaps it would even be better than mine, which was that except all four moves are on demand. It sounds like a more stable version of my idea tbh.
Also maybe it isn't that similar. There isn't a lot of detail in this, so I'm not entirely sure how it works. Do you type it in at the start of the match, or can you do it at any point to access the fourth move? Cause my idea was the latter, and I assume this is what you have in mind, but your post isn't specific enough so I don't know for sure.
In any case, I cannot stress enough how I think a format where you build a part of your set mid battle is really cool and has a lot of potential and I really want it to work so if there's a way to make it work please let's do this and if there isn't can we fix that? So many times I look though a Pokemon's moveset and see interesting options that it could find uses for but are too niche and/or it can't afford to give anything up. Letting a Pokemon use these moves in situations where you would want them would be really cool and I think it would also reward knowledge and quick thinking by letting players find creative outs, and also add a great risk/reward aspect, for example "I could set hazards with my free moveslot now, but I might need something else later, should I pop it or play it safe?" I really really want something like this to be a thing.
Do you know why they said it wasn't possible? Like if you're familiar with programming this is just adding a textbox and some custom code. I'd like to know what restrictions they have so they don't do it.
All 4 moves on-demand would require too much input every game. It's why Sketchmons is only 1 move, and not 4.
Same.
oh so uh that's not a "chat can't determine your available moves" damn.
"I think this may require a hard veto, PS cannot support having a pokemon having every move in its moveslot available"
Cancel cult
That doesn't make sense to me. The same way you choose a legal move in the teambuilder is basically the way you set a move during the battle. I want to know what restrictions they made that wouldn't allow the devs to do that.
Cancel cult
That doesn't make sense to me. The same way you choose a legal move in the teambuilder is basically the way you set a move during the battle. I want to know what restrictions they made that wouldn't allow the devs to do that.