Ladder Mix and Mega

[Maid-]

I haven't seen a single Deo-S on ladder yet so I Abstain from voting until I encounter it a few times.

As far as Genesect is concerned, it brings up an important point about the MnM ladder that has been surrounding it since its inception: -atespeed. I feel that, on its own, Genesect is an -atespeeder that is dealt with similarly to both zygarde and entei in terms of power output. However, when all 3 -atespeeders are combined with a proper lure for their counters, they are nigh unbeatable. Genesect is quite threatening when it first comes in, but in subsequent switches it is much easier to deal with. Additionally, you almost certainly know it's speed and defense stat right from the get-go because of its required Hasty nature in order to run extremespeed on it. This -def nature as well as losing its steel typing with most megas make it extremely easy to revenge with another -atespeeder. Threats such as ho-oh and pdon are hard stops to genesect's onslaught and exert their own offensive/supportive pressure on the enemy team as well as fit nicely onto most teams. My point with all of this being that, by itself, genesect is no more metagame breaking than entei or zygarde so I vote to Unban Genesect. In the context of an -atespeed meta, I feel genesect adds a lot to in terms of fun gameplay potential whilst not restricting teambuilding any more than either zygarde or entei. In my opinion, either all 3 should be banned or none of them.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

The only Pokemon among these I've seen so far was an Aggronite Aegislash. It wasn't really a threat, at all. Mono-Steel is decent until you realize that now you're vulnerable to Fighting-type attacks. King's Shield mitigates that at times, but other times you just get ruined. Without Stance Change Aegislash struggles to deal damage, so there's no issue of it switching between breaking and walling that made it such a problem in OU. In theory Landorus and Greninja will be very far from broken. Landorus is at its most powerful with a Life Orb (Cameruptite is close, but then you're slower AND weaker, if bulkier. Maybe Rock Polish would be a decent cleaner without Atespeed), so it can't break like it could in OU and reap the benefits of MnM. Greninja is also insanely frail, and with Pixispeed on every other team (if not literally every team) and how frail it is it's not breaking the metagame.

I might ladder for reqs later, but as it stands if we're keeping Entei and Zygarde (or just Atespeed in general) then Genesect is no more broken than those two. I spoke in the OM chat about the difference between the three and the consensus was that Thunder/Thunderbolt broke it, but if you DON'T run it you auto-lose to Blue Orb Skarmory, so coverage is being abandoned somewhere. Again, Atespeed totally breaks it, but if that's how the metagame is going to be then I don't see any reason to boot it. At least Genesect gives you an extra option for a catch-all revenge killer (or you could be an asshole and run all three).

Deo-S is actually balanced, it doesn't hit that hard and doesn't have the staying power that many other Pokemon do. The hazard lead with Ampharosite (Taunt/Rocks/Spikes/Psychic or Protect depending on how much you hate Weavile) has by far been the best-performing for me, there's a shocking lack of Rapid Spin and Defog on the (lower) ladder, but if/when the metagame catches up with that Deoxys-S will be a mediocre choice all around.

Just going to throw this out there, but gene is stronger than those (even without download, although ig entei runs adamant), faster, has coverage, and a better boosting move (NTM pivoting and techno blast). Saying that's it's the same as entei and zygarde is way overselling those two.

 

[Laxpras]

Throwing out a set that with the right support is an excellent wincon for balanced or defensive teams.

Florges-White @ Aggronite
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy

Aggronite provides an excellent Fairy/Steel typing. Your defensive stats become 78/118/174 with a great defensive ability in Filter. With max def, this thing tanks a decent amount of hits. I'm sure its outclassed by a couple other defensive CM users, but to be fair I've won several games with this solely due to the cheeky fairy typing. Works as a solid Terrakion switchin if you haven't Megad yet, as you resist the CC, then you can mega to resist the Stone Edge which the opponent will be expecting to KO. Moonblast KOs after the CC drop.

 

[Soup117]

Can someone rate this team for me pastebin.com/mB9dsrbp

They can do a lot of work
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-429504339

 

[Sugarbear]

Unban Genesect

No question it is a major threat. However, its low bulk makes it extremely difficult to switch in safely, and unless it's running the Blue Orb (not the best stone IMO), most bulky Fire types can shut it down. People were (understandably) gushing over a set with Pinsiritie, but that stone gives it a bad X4 weakness to Stealth Rock and it both of its -ate Speed resistances (in fact it makes it weak to Aerilate Espeed). It is a very threatening Pokémon, but right now I just don't think it's broken. The best set I've found with it is a physically offensive pivot with the Metagrossite, similar to Mega Beedrill in UU.

Genesect @ Metagrossite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- Blaze Kick

Ban Deoxys-S

With the Ampharosite, it can now easily stack hazards against just about everything, as well as cripple most walls with Taunt + Toxic. If you're worried about its low bulk, the Aggronite's a solid option too - then you have a Pokémon which outruns everything and is bulky enough to set multiple layers of hazards. If you're that worried about Magic Bounce, it can even run Skill Swap. Even with the Sablenite, it still outruns Glalite Weavile, which is normally the fastest Pokémon you'll see.

Hide

11 matches, 11 wins. I'm happy with that.

Can someone rate this team for me pastebin.com/mB9dsrbp

They can do a lot of work
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-429504339

Soup117

Suggestions in Bold

Hide

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Low Kick
- Baton Pass

Interesting idea, however I'd suggest running a fully offensive spread with an Adamant nature and the moves Protect, Flare Blitz, Low Kick, Baton Pass. Then, you've also got a late game cleaner and Baton Passer in one slot.

Volcarona @ Diancite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
I can see your thinking here, but honestly Diancite is terrible on a boosting sweeper as that wrecks its bulk. The set itself is fine - I'd suggest the Red Orb, as it gives Volcarona a bit more bulk, way more power and a Water immunity. If running the Red Orb, run Quiver Dance, Fire Blast, Bug Buzz / Solar Beam, Solar Beam / Morning Sun. The Cameruptite could also work well, as Sheer Force powers up Bug Buzz and Fire Blast. You will need to run a Timid Nature to outrun Pidgeotite Gengar at +1 though.

Thundurus @ Blue Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Run Pidgeotite, it gives you much more power and No Guard gives you a perfectly accurate Thunder anyway. Pidgeotite also gives you a nice Speed boost. Nasty Plot and Thunder are nice, but IMO the final 2 slots should be Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

Whimsicott @ Lucarionite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Encore
- Solar Beam
Um...no offense but what the hell is this set? Solar Beam with no sun? Lucarionite? Just...why? Whimsicott is pretty meh in Mix and Mega TBH. IMO you'd be better off with this -
Celebi @ Venusaurite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain

Rampardos @ Altarianite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Just...no. Rampardos is way too slow and frail to be effective in this meta. If you'd like an Altarianite wallbreaker, I'd suggest this
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Shiny: Yes
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Bulldoze / Return / Flare Blitz

Shuckle @ Sablenite
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rest

Shuckle itself is a solid mon, but honestly that set's an unviable gimmick in standard play and it's no better here. Taunt Mew and Heatran almost always run Ampharosite, so they can bypass Magic Bounce regardless. If you want to use Shuckle, use this set

Shuckle @ Banettite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Encore
- Infestation / Yawn

If you'd like a bulky sweeper, I'd suggest this

Suicune @ Slowbronite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Hope it helps, good luck!

 

[Schpoonman]

Unban Genesect

No question it is a major threat. However, its low bulk makes it extremely difficult to switch in safely, and unless it's running the Blue Orb (not the best stone IMO), most bulky Fire types can shut it down. People were (understandably) gushing over a set with Pinsiritie, but that stone gives it a bad X4 weakness to Stealth Rock and it both of its -ate Speed resistances (in fact it makes it weak to Aerilate Espeed). It is a very threatening Pokémon, but right now I just don't think it's broken. The best set I've found with it is a physically offensive pivot with the Metagrossite, similar to Mega Beedrill in UU.

Genesect @ Metagrossite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- Blaze Kick

Ban Deoxys-S

With the Ampharosite, it can now easily stack hazards against just about everything, as well as cripple most walls with Taunt + Toxic. If you're worried about its low bulk, the Aggronite's a solid option too - then you have a Pokémon which outruns everything and is bulky enough to set multiple layers of hazards. If you're that worried about Magic Bounce, it can even run Skill Swap. Even with the Sablenite, it still outruns Glalite Weavile, which is normally the fastest Pokémon you'll see.

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View attachment 68575

11 matches, 11 wins. I'm happy with that.



Soup117

Suggestions in Bold

Hide

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Low Kick
- Baton Pass

Interesting idea, however I'd suggest running a fully offensive spread with an Adamant nature and the moves Protect, Flare Blitz, Low Kick, Baton Pass. Then, you've also got a late game cleaner and Baton Passer in one slot.

Volcarona @ Diancite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
I can see your thinking here, but honestly Diancite is terrible on a boosting sweeper as that wrecks its bulk. The set itself is fine - I'd suggest the Red Orb, as it gives Volcarona a bit more bulk, way more power and a Water immunity. If running the Red Orb, run Quiver Dance, Fire Blast, Bug Buzz / Solar Beam, Solar Beam / Morning Sun. The Cameruptite could also work well, as Sheer Force powers up Bug Buzz and Fire Blast. You will need to run a Timid Nature to outrun Pidgeotite Gengar at +1 though.

Thundurus @ Blue Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Run Pidgeotite, it gives you much more power and No Guard gives you a perfectly accurate Thunder anyway. Pidgeotite also gives you a nice Speed boost. Nasty Plot and Thunder are nice, but IMO the final 2 slots should be Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

Whimsicott @ Lucarionite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Encore
- Solar Beam
Um...no offense but what the hell is this set? Solar Beam with no sun? Lucarionite? Just...why? Whimsicott is pretty meh in Mix and Mega TBH. IMO you'd be better off with this -
Celebi @ Venusaurite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain

Rampardos @ Altarianite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Just...no. Rampardos is way too slow and frail to be effective in this meta. If you'd like an Altarianite wallbreaker, I'd suggest this
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Shiny: Yes
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Bulldoze / Return / Flare Blitz

Shuckle @ Sablenite
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rest

Shuckle itself is a solid mon, but honestly that set's an unviable gimmick in standard play and it's no better here. Taunt Mew and Heatran almost always run Ampharosite, so they can bypass Magic Bounce regardless. If you want to use Shuckle, use this set

Shuckle @ Banettite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Encore
- Infestation / Yawn

If you'd like a bulky sweeper, I'd suggest this

Suicune @ Slowbronite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Hope it helps, good luck!

Well, that's the first I've seen someone claim that Deoxys was an issue. Do you feel as though MnM is inherently unkind to hazard removal? There's a number of Pokemon that can now access Prankster Defog with Banettite, or use another Stone to get Atespin (Shell Smash Rapid Spin Glalitite Cloyster?), though I understand that most of them are better used by offensive Pokemon (does Starmie get Hyper Voice or another decently-powerful Normal special attacking move?), but I feel like Deoxys either runs hazards or attacking sets. It's unable to split the difference in MnM.

 

[Dark Mage Ewan]

Hi! I am dead, but I really like Mix n' Mega so I decided to ladder in order to be able to vote:

My first conclusion was Unban Deoxys-S

While it may sound good in paper with it's hazzard stacking capabilities it isn't that good in practice. The best way to use him is either as a cleaner with Mewtonite X gaining excellent 175 ATK with it's already awesome speed and still decent 95 SP.ATK for Psycho Boost, or you could run him with Ampharosite since it doesn't care about the speed loss and loves mold breaker for hazzard stacking, Ampharosite Deoxys-Speed's Psycho Boost also are surprisingly strong. Those aren't the only sets, I have experimented with Diancite with underwhelming results and it does have E-speed, allowing it to outspeed Zygarde with altarianite.

I initially was thinking that Gensect would be too powerful, Download, E-speed, Techno Blast, EXPLOSION!, all Pixilate boosted, but I found it so underwhelming, all the possibilities are there but I never found it a threat, never was I able to do much with it, and the ones I faced never killed anything until they went Boom! I think it is a threat but maybe the times I faced it my opponents weren't making full use of it's capabilities, a good Genesect can single handedly deal with my teams theoreticly, but I never found it able to do much on practice. Abstain on Genesect

 

[Sugarbear]

Well, that's the first I've seen someone claim that Deoxys was an issue. Do you feel as though MnM is inherently unkind to hazard removal? There's a number of Pokemon that can now access Prankster Defog with Banettite, or use another Stone to get Atespin (Shell Smash Rapid Spin Glalitite Cloyster?), though I understand that most of them are better used by offensive Pokemon (does Starmie get Hyper Voice or another decently-powerful Normal special attacking move?), but I feel like Deoxys either runs hazards or attacking sets. It's unable to split the difference in MnM.

I've never seen Prankster Defog (not saying it's unviable, I just haven't seen it) I think because the Banettite offers little defensively. Most Defoggers I've seen typically run Sablenite or, in Skarmory's case, Blue Orb. That means Ampharosite Deoxys can easily Taunt them before they have a chance to Defog, rendering most of them useless. I think the best Rapid Spinner in the tier atm is Pinsirite Excadrill, but Deoxys can still OHKO it with Ice Beam. Glalite Cloyster's weak to all hazards, so there are better Pokémon for the job of hazard removal.

 

[Soup117]

Suggestions in Bold

Hide

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Low Kick
- Baton Pass

Interesting idea, however I'd suggest running a fully offensive spread with an Adamant nature and the moves Protect, Flare Blitz, Low Kick, Baton Pass. Then, you've also got a late game cleaner and Baton Passer in one slot.

Volcarona @ Diancite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
I can see your thinking here, but honestly Diancite is terrible on a boosting sweeper as that wrecks its bulk. The set itself is fine - I'd suggest the Red Orb, as it gives Volcarona a bit more bulk, way more power and a Water immunity. If running the Red Orb, run Quiver Dance, Fire Blast, Bug Buzz / Solar Beam, Solar Beam / Morning Sun. The Cameruptite could also work well, as Sheer Force powers up Bug Buzz and Fire Blast. You will need to run a Timid Nature to outrun Pidgeotite Gengar at +1 though.

Thundurus @ Blue Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Run Pidgeotite, it gives you much more power and No Guard gives you a perfectly accurate Thunder anyway. Pidgeotite also gives you a nice Speed boost. Nasty Plot and Thunder are nice, but IMO the final 2 slots should be Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

Whimsicott @ Lucarionite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Encore
- Solar Beam
Um...no offense but what the hell is this set? Solar Beam with no sun? Lucarionite? Just...why? Whimsicott is pretty meh in Mix and Mega TBH. IMO you'd be better off with this -
Celebi @ Venusaurite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain

Rampardos @ Altarianite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Just...no. Rampardos is way too slow and frail to be effective in this meta. If you'd like an Altarianite wallbreaker, I'd suggest this
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Shiny: Yes
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Bulldoze / Return / Flare Blitz

Shuckle @ Sablenite
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rest

Shuckle itself is a solid mon, but honestly that set's an unviable gimmick in standard play and it's no better here. Taunt Mew and Heatran almost always run Ampharosite, so they can bypass Magic Bounce regardless. If you want to use Shuckle, use this set

Shuckle @ Banettite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Encore
- Infestation / Yawn

If you'd like a bulky sweeper, I'd suggest this

Suicune @ Slowbronite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Hope it helps, good luck!

Well see, allow me to explain my thinking.

I can see your thinking here, but honestly Diancite is terrible on a boosting sweeper as that wrecks its bulk. The set itself is fine - I'd suggest the Red Orb, as it gives Volcarona a bit more bulk, way more power and a Water immunity. If running the Red Orb, run Quiver Dance, Fire Blast, Bug Buzz / Solar Beam, Solar Beam / Morning Sun. The Cameruptite could also work well, as Sheer Force powers up Bug Buzz and Fire Blast. You will need to run a Timid Nature to outrun Pidgeotite Gengar at +1 though.

I could try the Red Orb Volcarona, but my intention was to get a Quiver Dance off before using the Diancite so I could maintain the bulk and get the boost in stats. Once I lose the bulk, I'd already be very strong and have a +1 speed boost.


Um...no offense but what the hell is this set? Solar Beam with no sun? Lucarionite? Just...why? Whimsicott is pretty meh in Mix and Mega TBH. IMO you'd be better off with this -
Celebi @ Venusaurite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain

I just added Whim because it's my favorite pokemon. Idk why I had Solar Beam, I thought it was Energy Ball lol. Also Lucarionite gives Whimsicott Adaptability, which I thought would be an interesting idea. It's proven to be decent, especially if I can get a Prankster Encore off before Mega Evolving

Just...no. Rampardos is way too slow and frail to be effective in this meta. If you'd like an Altarianite wallbreaker, I'd suggest this
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Shiny: Yes
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Bulldoze / Return / Flare Blitz

This was supposed to be a combo with Mega Blaziken, because Rampardos has the highest Attack stat out of any non-mega, (Unless Slaking/Regigigas are higher, but they're banned from Mega Evolving) and with the Altarianite, and a +6 speed boost, Rampardos becomes a BEAST at sweeping, due to his high Attack Stat and STAB Return.

Shuckle itself is a solid mon, but honestly that set's an unviable gimmick in standard play and it's no better here. Taunt Mew and Heatran almost always run Ampharosite, so they can bypass Magic Bounce regardless. If you want to use Shuckle, use this set

Shuckle @ Banettite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Encore
- Infestation / Yawn

Prankster is a good idea, I may try it. I just wanted to do a Shuckle stall set, with Infestation and Toxic, while also using Pre-Mega Contrary Shell Smash to greatly increase my tankiness.

 

[xJownage]

A Y L M A O

I would love to keep Genesect in the tier because its just really fun to use and is a bit of a noob killer; lots of bad sets that can gimmick common HO teams just get one-shot by Gene and it really makes a lot of battles easier as a premier revenge killer that packs a huge punch on its other moves. That being said, this thing has set checks and counters to the common sets, and while you may argue that it has little to no counters if you incorporate every possible set, this is a reality that many mons face in mix-and-mega. Think about Primaldon; RP SD primaldon is beaten by blue orb Skarm and wearing it down; many Primaldon run Thunder to beat blue orb skarm as a result. Special primaldon is actually a really good lure set for many typical primaldon checks, especially those that use blue orb. This is the reality of a lot of MnM mons, such as Victini running special and mixed sets, Gengar running perishtrap, and many other similar mons that are versatile with diverse movepools and a lot of possible mega stones. Genesect really isn't that much different in my experience; I never felt that this was better than any one mon that I've fallen in love with in previous MnM OMotMs. Futhermore, Genesect has a lot of checks, not counters, that deal with it quite easily. Pixilate and Aerilate are very good, Aerilate is superior in my experience, but they both pack counters. PrimalDon checks Pixilate, and aerilate is checked by...any electric type ever. Hell, you could run an electric/steel type and counter both primary sets and any set that doesn't pack flamethrower (and flamethrower sets are generally pretty shit in my experience). Honestly, the ability to beat your counters depending on what set you run isn't anything new in Mix-and-Mega, and for that reason I flipped on Genesect in about the last hour of laddering with it once I realized that it really wasn't much better than anything i've laddered successfully with in the past.

As for Deoxys-Speed, my experience in Mix-and-Mega is that switching is much less common, or moreso that chip damage is less relevant since mons usually aren't tanking attacks to check threats (unless they counter them). Basically what i'm saying is that hazards aren't that relevant in this tier; they really never have been all that good and even with a premier setter in Deo-S I still find it lacking. Furthermore, the presence of -atespeeders and the like makes Deoxys-S not nearly as reliable at setting up hazards as it would be in other tiers; many mons can OHKO or 2HKO it before it even blinks really rendering it not that good. On the flip side, Ampharosite Psycho Boost hits REALLY hard for a hazard setter and gives it quite the useful offensive presence even with 0 investment, keeping some of its utility. Deoxys' high speed tier is a huge benefit for it to run other sets that I'm sure need to be explored, but as of now I really don't feel like its broken or even really good. Its a good hazard setter. Otherwise, it's largely unexplored. We can always come back to it when people find more useful/effective sets.
Don't Ban Genesect

Don't Ban Deoxys-Speed

I very much encourage those of you who have voted ban on genesect to reconsider what your definition of broken in MnM to be. Having no counters across all its sets =/= broken in tiers where pokemon can change their stab types without the other player knowing until it's too late. Aerilate/Pixilate Weavile, anybody?

 

[Sugarbear]

Soup117

If off the bat power is what you want on Volcarona, use the Red Orb - thanks to Desolate Land you get more power than you would with the Diancite, and it doesn't wreck your bulk. If you want a fast attacker that uses the Diancite well, go with Heatran - it isn't weak to hazards like Volcarona.

The issue with your Rampardos is that if it doesn't get passed the Speed from Blaziken it's pretty much useless. You could run Rock Polish Altarianite / Pinsirite Landorus-T in its place - the neutral coverage between Earthquake and Return is excellent, and it can still sweep if it doesn't get the Baton Pass boosts.

It's nice that you want to be creative, but gimmicks only get you so far.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

This is the first time I've tried Mix and mega (no kidding, I didn't play it when it was OMotM previously) and I'll say it's pretty fun. In theory, the best playstyle in this meta is any form of Offense because this meta basically makes defensive teams in disadvantage by A LOT because switching is really hard. What I mean is, in general, you're NOT mega'd the first time you switch in and yet, you need to be able to take on attacks from mega'd mons. Basically it's like, find a switch in to an Uber level power mon with your OU level bulk. Probably also the reason why full defensive teams in general are bad in this meta. I'm not complaining btw, just... analyzing what I've found so far, probably.

Also, I peaked at around 1530 elo at the first day probably because many people haven't realized about this. Or, they didn't prepare for -atespeed, which is a common but fatal problem.

I'll share a set that make me peak and being an mvp in a lot of battles.

Arcanine @ Pinsirite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Howl
- Flare Blitz
- Extremespeed
- Wild Charge

People probably used this in past OMotM but I find it funny that many people say "lol Arcanine is crap use Entei" when Entei can't touch Blue Orb Skarm while Arcanine can do this:

+1 252 Atk Pinsirite Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 178-210 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Howl + Wild Charge has won me many battles just because many people fail to realize that Arcanine's Wild Charge actaully 2HKOs after a Howl. Once they see Arcanine, they treat it the same way as they treat Entei and as a result, their Skarmory got broken or took a heavy damage. Close Combat can be replaced over Flare Blitz but in most cases, you don't need it since Rock types aren't common (I've seen like, a few Aerodactyl and almost no Tyranitar). It also have an advantage of outspeeding Altarianite Entei before megaevo (which is very common) because Entei is forced to run Adamant if it wants to carry Espeed, which I think it's a fatal flaw, making it get outspeed by Jolly Zygarde. People probably disagrees with this, but I think Arcanine>Entei.

Edit: Btw I won't bother with Genesect suspect since apparently it needs a 60% majority of no ban to be unbanned. I did ladder for reqs with SDG account and nearly made it (had 74.9% GXE in like 14 battles) but I stopped when I realized it's going to be banned anyway. Tbh I actually want it stay for like, 5 days because I feel like people need to see that they can adapt to Genesect or not. This is just the first day, so people don't know how to handle it yet. But I think this Genesect meta needs a bit more time to see if people find answers to it or not.

 

[jamashawalker]

Ban Genesect:

When I first started I thought it wouldn't be any different than the other Espeed-Ate users, but the slight differences make it a huge differences in playstyle.

• it's not forced to mega evolve the turn it is sent out. +1 Atk Espeed from genesect still hurts, making it a great revenge killer.
  
• U-TURN U-TURN U-TURN!!!! being able to pivot and keep momentum on your side is huge. Also you can refer back to the previous point about not being forced to mega evolve. Which means alot more than it seems. Hazard neutrality, being able to still nab a download boost again, offensive pressure etc.
• Being able to go mixed or full special with technoblast+Coverage. Technoblast hits like a truck even without special attack investment. Here are some important calcs from the mixed set:

4 SpA Aerilate (130 base Spatk) Genesect Techno Blast vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

4 SpA Genesect (130 Base SpAtk) Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (90 SpDef) Skarmory: 154-182 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO

Factor in Stealth Rock Damage those are a clean 2HKO which is HUGE, and something the other Espeed-Ate users cant brag about.

• Being the fastest and strongest(Currenly not banned and bar entei because it is forced to run adamant) Espeed-Ate user.
  
• DOWNLOAD. Zygarde can boost it's Atk, Entei can boost it's attack, lucario can get a +2, the difference between all of them is that Genesect can get a boost without wasting a turn nor using up a moveslot. However it can which leads to my next point
• SHIFT GEAR. I thought this was gimmicky because why use shift gear when you'll most likely be spamming Espeed-Ate anyways. But sweeping with Shift Gear is insane. Many people aren't prepared for a powerful X-scissor+Iron Head Dianciate. If you nab a +Atk in download boost and set up Shift Gear, you are now running around with +2 Atk,+2 Spe. Which was way easier than it seemed. Something not ANY other pokemon bar shell smashers can do.

I'll keep it honest and say that genesect has its downside. FRAIL, can't get past steels without flamethrower(which is a horrible option), Aggronite users with recover wall it to hell and back, While it takes skill to get the boosts you want from download sometimes things might not go the way you want them to. Pinsirite means that you are hurting from Stealth Rock, Altarianite means you have no way to get past bulky fire types(aka P-Groudon). Still with all these downsides it is the most destructive pokemon in the tier who is unpredictable making scouting extremely difficult when trying to deal with it. I vote


Unban Deoxys-S:

It met all my expectations. It was a great Offensive lead by getting guaranteed hazards up with Amphorsite. It was pretty good special sweeper with Pidgeoite. Next I want to try Mewtwonite-X physical sweeper. But with both sets I never felt this was "ban-worthy."

• With the hazard lead, Defog is a common move in this metagame. Unless I wanted to keep hazards up I had to keep this alive turn 1. Which was not an easy feat.
  
• The Pidgeotite sweeper was fun and cool but other pokemon can utilize that mega stone better. namely Mew who has a high spAtk and same moveset bar Psycho boost.

Not much to say about it because there wasn't much it did that was a WOW compared to genesect. Getting guaranteed hazards up is cool but in a game full of Defog users it's not uncommon to see your efforts go for naught.

 

[nu nu X]

Could someone tell me exactly how Aegislash works?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-429701676
On turn 4, Aegislash megas and on turn 5 it turns into blade forme. I would like an explanation please

 

[Lucalu2015]

Votes :

Genesect-Undecided
I didnt used it enough to decide it is ban worthy but this thing seems broken. Free +1 , u-turn ( momentum ) and espeed is something
to be feared of. I didnt had he time to abuse other sets but its variety make's him a threat to any team because if you switch in the wrong set your check either die or is 2hkoed and with the variety of moves he can abuse it is almost unpredictable

Deoxys-speed-Unbanabn
This thing is so healthy for the metagame. Taunt+hazards , special sets , physicall sets , espeed spam and isnt broken by any means. It really makes the metagame more fun and diverse.Hoping it is unbanned.
Nothing else to say it is just a cool and all around diverse mon.

 

[lolnopound]

I'd like to suggest three sets not on the viability rankings.

Mandibuzz @ Sablenite
Ability: Overcoat
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Toxic

With Sablenite it rocks 110/155/145 bulk with access to defog roost foul play toxic and other moves. It's incredibly hard to take down and thanks to foul play doesnt get set up on by physical attackers and toxic can keep other set up sweepers at bay. It also stops hazard setters from getting them back up after defog thanks to magic bounce. Very weak to pixilate mons unfortunately.

Garchomp @ Metagrossite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

The viability rankings only list Lucarionite which is a very good set. Adaptibility gives it 200 power earthquake and 160 power dragon claw. It also gives it 165 105 124 offense. However what metagrossite provides is more special bulk and a stronger 3rd coverage move thanks to Tough Claws and most importantly speed. Important to note that Tough Claws gives the same 160 power dragon claw, but a weaker earthquake. However Aqua Tail is 120 power compared to 90. And while you are much weaker with 140 base attack compared to 165, the important part is the 124 base speed vs the 142 base speed which I can't think of anything that is outspeeding that. Thanks to the +20 in both defenses Garchomp can get off an SD and take down just about anything that doesn't use extreme speed and the missing power from Lucarionite won't be noticed often. Aqua Tail is run to hit Latiasite Heatran with a super effective 240 power Aqua Tail and hit Blue Orb Skarmory with a 180 power rain boosted Aqua Tail.

Volcarona @ Absolite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain

Lastly i was amazed to see Red Orb was the only suggested Volc set. If your opponent doesn't have water or a faster rock type (RIP arcanine and entei stone edge) then this will 6-0 any team. Thanks to Absolite you can invest entirely in physical bulk. After a Quiver Dance, Volcarona has 374 hp, 251 defense, and 369 special defense which coupled with access to Roost is hard to break. Especially when the opponent has to worry about its 579 special attack and 474 speed after just 1 boost, which is with absolutely no offensive investment. Couple all of this with Magic Bounce making it immune to status moves and phazing, and you have possibly the most unstoppable mon in the meta if its check is out the way.

 

[Schpoonman]

I tbink you are vastly underestimating just how broken powerful Pinsirite Extreme Speed is. I'm unfortunately at work, but I'm reasonably confident that Zygarde's Pinsirite Extreme Speed, the weakest Atespeed available, is still a clean OHKO.

 

[Sugarbear]

^
252+ Atk Pinsirite Aerilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 354-416 (94.9 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Not quite a guaranteed KO, but it comes very close. Entei and Arcanine are obv OHKOs.

That is still a solid set though, I'd recommend pairing it with Latiasite Heatran.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Could someone tell me exactly how Aegislash works?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-429701676
On turn 4, Aegislash megas and on turn 5 it turns into blade forme. I would like an explanation please

I just tested it across the board with Blue orb, Absolite, Lucarionite ect. It seems to purely be a visual glitch and nothing else, it doesn't actually get any of the effects wether if abilities or stats. Or even weather abilities. The Immortal it should be getting the changes but then it changes forms and reverts back into its old form, that seems to be the issue!

 

[Wob]

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

This is a really cool set I thought of today. Mewtwonite X gives Landorus-T a +80 boost to it's already excellent attack stat. It also gives replaces it's flying type with fighting, which is actually pretty good because it gives Landorus an extra STAB move in brick break. It's only real issue is it's relatively poor speed compared to other Pokemon in the metagame. That's why I've added rock polish, because if you can get up one of those you can sweep like hell.

 

[Delibird Heart]

Here's a set idea I've thought off :

Ninetales @ Houndoomite
Ability: Drought (Solar Power after mega)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- HP Rock / Substitute
- Nasty plot

Under sun and after mega, fire blast will do a TON of damage. During testing, it one shot a Raikou @ Ampharosite and a Red Orb Victini after a Nasty Plot. With this, you can roll on most mons that don't have blue orb/drizzle, with only a few being able to take it such as blissey. Solar beam and HP Rock allow for better coverage, although you're better off using Fire Blast most of the time, so you can use substitute to allow for more set-up opportunities and safer setting up. And finally, nasty plot is self explanatory.

Of course, with the abundance of blue orb mons and blisseys in this meta, this set is not optimal, but if you can clean up all of it's counters, you should effortlessly sweep.

 

[Jerry311]

Id like to suggest aggronite garchomp with d claw iron head eq and stealth rock or something. basicly, it seems to be meh at first but Ive tried it and it works really well. dragon/steel is a good typing especially with filter. hits kinda hard and had good bulk. rough skin can even be used pre mega to kill things on switchins but honestly you wanna mega as soon as possible unless you know a fire move is coming. I'm not saying this set is amazing or anything but it works well for me and I like it. thought maybe someone else might wanna use it.

 

[urkerab]

(not sure why the Reset W/L link is purple, I didn't reset my W/L on this alt)

Isn't that just the link to the ladder page on your user profile, which is where you actually get to reset your W/L?

Could someone tell me exactly how Aegislash works?

Aegislash's Ability, Stance Change, is protected against being overwritten. So, the turn you mega, your Ability is still Stance Change. However, things might reset if you switch out and back in again.

 

[Agustin23]

I'd like to suggest Ditto w/ Imposter. Imposter lets it transform into Mega evos without using a stone. Since it takes their stats and ability, too, and you can give it stuff like a Life Orb or Choice Scarf. Pretty fun.

 

[Shavedbear]

I'd like to suggest Ditto w/ Imposter. Imposter lets it transform into Mega evos without using a stone. Since it takes their stats and ability, too, and you can give it stuff like a Life Orb or Choice Scarf. Pretty fun.

I like Ditto a lot. I will point out that you should always run Choice Scarf so you dont have to hope that you win a speed tie