M&M Mix and Mega

[fififlutters]

This thread could do with a little bit of a revival (and having all the tiering announcements done on page 4 this time), so here's a post on the most significant new mons in Mix and Mega.

Urshifu

Single Strike:

Urshifu-Single-Strike is probably one of the better drops that has come from the Isle of Armor. Hard resists to this mon are fairly rare, and from an initial look into the metagame it seems that most checks to Urshifu tend to be some sort of bulky fairy like Manectite Magearna, Altarianite Arcanine and the occasional Audinite Slowbro and Altarianite Hippowdon. The ability to reliably crit through bulky setup like Sablenite Mew and Sablenite Slowbro is also something that is very welcome in Mix and Mega as Sablenite Mew was terrorizing the metagame in its pre-DLC state.

sets

Urshifu @ Metagrossite
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wicked Blow
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
- U-turn / Taunt / Sucker Punch

This is probably the Urshifu set that I like most at the moment. A fairly strong 140 Attack with the addition of Tough Claws gives Urshifu a decent chance at 3HKOing Manectite Magearna with Stealth Rock up and can threaten out Toxapex with Taunt + Wicked Blow. It does have a small weakness to certain Pokemon like Arcanine, the same way Terrakion had problems with Zygarde, but these problems are not enough to discourage it from being used.

Rapid Strike:

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike unfortunately does not have the same level of power that Urshifu-Single-Strike has. Because of the prominence of Toxapex and Slowbro, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike finds it considerably harder to break through balance teams as a result. However, it does have a few distinct advantages over Urshifu-Single-Strike that may actually make it better in reality. The better defensive typing as well as the ability to threaten a 2HKO on Manectite Magearna after Stealth Rock and OHKO Arcanine makes Urshifu-Rapid-Strike considerably better against more offensive teams which may see a resurgence. Urshifu-Rapid-Strike also gets a few significant spaces to start breaking, such as through Blissey or Sablenite Hippowdon. But for the most part, I believe the greater threat level of Urshifu-Single-Strike leaves it difficult to utilize Urshifu-Rapid-Strike.

set

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Metagrossite
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch

This is likely to be Urshifu-Rapid-Strike's best set. In matchups where Toxapex and Slowbro are present, U-turn can be used to slowly wear them down either through hazard chip or in Slowbro's case, through U-turn damage alone. Metagrossite is used for the same reasons that it is used on Single Strike to give better overall damage to coverage. If warranted an Aerodactylite set could be used to get more power out of Urshifu-Rapid-Strike as it does not have the same speed control issues that Urshifu-Single-Strike has.

Blissey



Blissey has been an absolute blessing to Mix and Mega. The problem with a lacking special wall on balance has been solved, and this mon has gotten utility options that allow it to be utilized on more offensive builds as well. However, it does further extenuate the problem with Sablenite, and the current issues that are follow suit around it. Stealth Rock is incredibly difficult to set up against Blissey and it almost mandates the usage of Terrakion to be able to reliably set up Stealth Rock. Sadly, not all teams can afford Terrakion and thus it may be impossible for teams to get reliably useful Stealth Rockers without the existence of some cursed teambuilding options.

set

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold / Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport / Heal Bell

This will likely be Blissey's bread and butter, likely paired with a relevant Fire type such as Arcanine, to deal with Calm Mind + Pain Split Magearna. Blissey's absolutely gargantuan HP + SpDef stat allows it to take on previously frustrating to take on mons like Hydreigon and Chandelure. Blissey however may suffer from a lack of being able to take momentum due to the recent rising of Fighting types like Megahorn Terrakion and both Urshifu forms, and Slowbro hogging the Sablenite slot. It may be worth it to run an alternate stone such as Audinite or Ampharosite, but these options may be highly cursed as alternates.

Slowbro



Slowbro is also another returning mon from SM MnM, and its viability in that metagame may speak to its effectiveness overall as a Pokemon in the current metagame. Compared to Mew, Slowbro has a few particularly excellent traits that will help it along in comparison. Its Water secondary typing will allow it to take on Ground types considerably better than Mew could, and it may also help it to do much more lasting damage against Mew's would be counters. However, Slowbro having a snail-like 1 base Speed is pretty detrimental to its effectiveness vs Toxapex and that could be a reason to continue to run Mew. It does also get Teleport this generation, so a pivot set is likely viable.

sets

Slowbro @ Sablenite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off

Probably the bread and butter set. CM Slowbro works very similarly to Mew, so this set doesn't really need much explanation.

Slowbro @ Sablenite / Audinite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Scald
- Teleport
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Pivot Slowbro. Walls Urshifu pretty well if Audinite but is generally better if Sablenite as it can't be statused by mons like Toxapex. Works pretty well alongside Teleport Blissey too, as it can form a VoltTurn core.

Slowbro @ Sablenite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Stored Power / Scald
- Cosmic Power
- Slack Off

Demon Slowbro. A bit less powerful than Mew due to a lower Speed but the typing helps it deal with certain problems that Mew could not surpass, so it may become more viable as time goes on.

turns out Slowbro doesn't get Cosmic Power lmao. my bad

Magearna


Probably the best Pokemon to be dropped out of the entire list. An incredible Steel/Fairy typing packed with 80/115/115 defenses and a massive 130 Special Attack backed with Fleur Cannon is already dangerous in a metagame without Primal Groudon to balance it. However, Magearna does lose a major component of its viability in SM, and that is Return. The loss of Return means that Pinsirite Magearna is no longer as effective as it used to be, and thankfully this may mean that Magearna could theoretically be balanced in this metagame. The loss of Heart Swap also gives Magearna some issues as it is no longer as worthy as a specially defensive pivot. This restricts its roles a bit, but a bit is nothing for Magearna. This mon has a seriously large amount of sets that it could possibly run, but I'd rather go into the bread and butter sets only because of just how many variations this could be.

sets

Magearna @ Manectite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere / Calm Mind
- Pain Split

A classic from last generation. Hidden Power Fire doesn't exist and doesn't hit any relevant targets anyway, so Aura Sphere is used to hit Excadrill for a 2HKO in order to improve Magearna's ability to pivot around teams with ease. Manectite Magearna also has the same trait that it did last gen of being able to effectively tank the majority of the physical metagame, although with mons like Urshifu and Terrakion rising in the metagame it may not be able to throw itself in front of Fire attacks as easily as it did last generation. Calm Mind may also be an option over Aura Sphere if you're looking for the ability to wincon.

Magearna @ Pinsirite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tri Attack
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split
- Agility / Shift Gear / Encore

Whilst Pinsirite Magearna lost Return, it did gain a new Normal type move in Tri-Attack. As a result, a Double Dance set may pop up to counteract the likely heavy usage of Fire-types in the metagame as a response to checking Magearna. It happens to be able to 2HKO Arcanine and PDef Banettite Toxapex with some reliability, and the Speed tier that it has is also capable of outpacing certain issue Pokemon like Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. This will probably be Magearna's best chance at being able to pull off sweeping sets this generation, and I think this is the Magearna most likely to be broken.

Magearna @ Sablenite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Heal Bell / Eerie Impulse / Calm Mind

Magearna lost Heart Swap but it did gain an unbouncable Special Attack lowering move in Eerie Impulse. This may allow it to handle certain NP attackers and opposing Magearna very well, but do be warned that Eerie Impulse's PP is actually less than Calm Mind, meaning that smart play can still result in the opposing Magearna overpowering you. At least this set is still viable. Latiasite could also be used to take some pressure off of Hippowdon, potentially with Calm Mind.

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon / Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split (TR maybe?)

Cameruptite Magearna may be worth something in this metagame as Primal Groudon doesn't wall its STABs to death, but the introduction of Volcarona may as well do this mon in anyway. Flash Cannon is unbelievably powerful under 170 Special Attack and a STAB boost, but the lack of Speed really hurts Cameruptite Magearna do its job. Confide Blissey is also on most stall teams at the moment to deal specifically with Magearna so this set is not nearly as powerful against fatter balances, but it could catch on later.

Volcarona



Volcarona may not be as viable as the other picks on this list, but it is still a fairly major introduction none-the-less, so I felt like I needed to add this in. Volcarona's strong Fire STABs no longer have the same resists they did last gen and the metagame now gives it a few more decent switchin opportunities to wreak havoc. However, Teleport users like Blissey can still give Volcarona a hard time of properly setting up and avoiding being revenge killed by mons like Lucario, so it may be risky to use this as a wincon.

set

Volcarona @ Charizardite Y / Cameruptite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Quiver Dance
- Roost / Bug Buzz

Volcarona has the impeccable initial power with Charizardite Y as another Fire type with absurd Special Attack, but this is cranked up even more with access to Quiver Dance, which allows it to boost its power even further against targets like Blissey and pull off a sweep. No capability of preventing Extreme Speed but Volcarona is plenty powerful enough to warrant usage. Psychic is chosen as the only coverage as Toxapex is the only relevant Fire resist stopping Volcarona from blazing through teams, and Roost is almost too important to drop. Cameruptite is slower and thus can be revenge killed by mons like Terrakion at +1 but the stronger Psychic means Toxapex and other potential resists are easier to blow through.

Some gimmicks:

potentially unviable, open at your risk

Talonflame @ Metagrossite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Metagrossite Talonflame. Dies to Slowbro but who cares we're 166 speed and thus we're speed control. Could be useful on some light bulky offenses to assist mons like Lucario with wallbreaking.

Blissey @ Ampharosite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower / Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock

Ampharosite Blissey, the other Stealth Rock user. Cursed because it loses to Magearna and like every other Fairy but it's OK because we wall the shit out of Fire types and we set Stealth Rock without problems. Excadrill loses to this with Flamethrower, but Seismic Toss is potentially another option if you want consistent damage.

Blissey @ Audinite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Teleport

Teleport Clefable if it had HP but no Magic Guard. Use to lure Urshifu and Terrakion into getting chipped on less bulky builds, but do not be surprised if the vulnerability to status kills this mon over the game.

Magearna @ Venusaurite / Latiasite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split

Magearna but it cheeses Fire types or Ground types. Still can lose to Volcarona and NP ZardYTom but makes Arcanine a moot answer. Probably not worth it unless you really need a Fire answer and a Magearna for some reason, but I don't judge. Latiasite may be useful for Excadrill but a lack of super effective coverage may just leave you in the water anyway.

Magearna @ Absolite / Diancite / Manectite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split / (Focus Blast?)

Offensive CM. Bounce variants are literally intended to CT Confide Blissey but you likely won't get too far with them. Suffers greatly from DM matchup unless you're Focus Blast too, and that can be severely unreliable in multiple ways. Manectite is a variant that doesn't CT stall but benefits from the increased Speed investment anyway.

Magearna @ Pinsirite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 112 Atk / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
Rash Nature
- Tri Attack
- Explosion
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind

We out here with ban Explosion mentality already. Don't use this unless you're using webs, split is just a better option most of the time.

Magearna @ Manectite / Latiasite / whatever stone helps you cheese matchups lmao
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind

If Toxapex dies for some reason this can be used to snowball. Don't ask me why this is here but it is anyway.

 

[Cuddly]

*Sad Titanic recorder noise*
Sadly, Golurk is a Ground/Ghost type instead of being a Ghost/Ground type, which is sad as this means we can’t make Golurk into a Ghost/Fighting powerhouse that abuses Poltergeist and Close Combat.
I can’t complain too much as Golurk finally got a usage Ghost STAB, and Ground/Fighting is good too.

Now this is at least the second best thing.
With Focus Punch+Poltergeist+Sub, Lopunnite Dusknoir can give issues to defensive Pokemon.
Substitute protects Dusknoir from potential status moves.
With some decent bulk and an immunity to Seismic Toss, it will be hard for defensive Pokemon like Blissey and pivot Slowbro to break its sub.
With Poltergeist, Dusknoir has perfect coverage against all types (including the non-existent Normal/Ghost type thanks to Scrappy), which is helpful as any defensive Pokemon can be holding Audinite to resist Focus Punch.
This won’t be top tier, but at least the Physical Ghosts besides Marshadow are getting some love.

 

[xavgb]

Hey, the council will be reviewing MnM's current banlist in the coming days for any potential unbans. This is being done early into the DLC meta to provide a good starting point to work from when it comes to banning things (this may be re-banning some of our unbans or banning new threats depending how the meta goes). We'll keep you updated when we figure out exactly what our new banlist will be.

 

[xavgb]

Alright, after a good amount of discussion within the council we have concluded that there are two things we could see being able to stay long-term in the DLC 1 metagame.



Zamazenta had seen a lot of discussion within the council even before DLC 1 dropped as various people had taken note of how tragic its movepool is (seriously gamefreak why). At that time we decided it was potentially okay in the meta but were against the risk of introducing a new threat into the meta while we were working on banning other threats. Now that there's a suitable opportunity to test out whether Zamazenta is balanced with stones,
MnM will be removing Zamazenta's restriction on holding Mega Stones.

It may seem odd to some people reading this that we're choosing to allow an Uber pokemon to hold stones, but I would like to remind people that MnM has managed to handle many Ubers holding stones in the past as the viability of mons in MnM don't necessarily match their placements in standard tiers (see Genesect and Skymin for example). As usual we will be keeping a close eye on Zamazenta in the coming weeks and are willing to re-ban it if it gets out of hand.



Zacian was fully banned from the metagame early into the Gen due to high Speed, a good bulk/typing combination, and a general lack of consistent switchins. While these factors are all still in play to an extent, with a bunch of mons being freed in Pokemon Home and Isle of Armor, Zacian has gained some slightly better checks such as Necrozma-DM and Magearna. We can't be fully sure of how these interactions will play out in practice, and a few council members are wary of its potential impact already, but overall the council felt that Zacian was at least worthy of being re-tested in the metagame, and as such Zacian-Hero will be unbanned in Mix and Mega (but not allowed to hold Mega Stones).

Tagging The Immortal to implement both of these on Showdown.



If you have any questions about these unbans or any other potential unbans that were rejected by the council, don't hesitate to ask me or any of the other council members on here or preferably on Discord since it's easier to hold conversation there.

 

[klimuk777]

So I just noticed pretty silly gimmick. Tere is new physical Ice move called Triple Axel, which hits 3 times and these hits have 20, 40 and 60 power, 120 in total, 180 total with Technician... And well, Weavile learns it. While Scizorite is not most amazing stone, it's something that might be worth trying out, seeing how Weavile itself has pretty okay Technician options in learnset.

 

[Cuddly]

So I just noticed pretty silly gimmick. Tere is new physical Ice move called Triple Axel, which hits 3 times and these hits have 20, 40 and 60 power, 120 in total, 180 total with Technician... And well, Weavile learns it. While Scizorite is not most amazing stone, it's something that might be worth trying out, seeing how Weavile itself has pretty okay Technician options in learnset.

You can also use Aerodactylite and Metagrossite, giving Weavile Tough Claws.
This may be a smaller boost to Triple Alex (being 156 instead) and no boost to Ice Shards, but you now boost Weavile’s Knock Off and Low Kick, as well as both being faster than Scizorite Weavile.
Lucarionite is also pretty good as its STABs will be stronger than Aerodactylite’s, but its Low Kick will be weaker and it will be slower than Metagrossite.

hey /vp/ :^)

 

[WMAR]

So i played mnm since gen 6, I noticed in this gen in particular, Mewtwo cant mega evolve with its own stones like it did the past 2 generations. Like just using its own mega stones. Is there a particular reason? Or is that overlooked

 

[Redflix]

With the meta somewhat settling after the Zacian and Zamazenta unbans, i think reviving the thread with some teams, thoughts on some mons and my overall take of the metagame should be somewhat of a good idea.

I'll admit that i was fully against freeing zacian and was really hoping the council would change their minds but after playing with it a bit i do think while this mon is good and at team preview requires planning, its not as overbearing as i thought it would be. The main reason is pretty clear ,the most obvious set LO SD + 3 attacks suffers suffers from LO recoil damage(similar to mewtwo in this aspect). This combined with it running wild charge for pex and Corviknight hinders its longevity. Its checks - Manectite Mag, Necrozma DM , Mew , Hippo are also fully capable of exploiting this fact. I've tried running Psychic fangs + Fire Fang to cover steels and pex and not getting recoil but its a suboptimal set imo and i'd rather just run cc + playrough. This mon's good but def not broken atm

Ik volc's already been discussed in a thread but i think rn its way better with a different set of stones and is imo a great mon. Part of it can be attributed to how mnm really lacks good SR setters which benefits volc a ton. Volc can perform both offensive and defensive roles very efficiently in a team, be it defensive QD sweeper , defensive WOW or sometimes defensive defog with either sablenite/latiasite that can be a check to Zacian/ Steels like Mag/Ndm/Excs or offensive QD varients in absolite that pressurizes teams with sable blissey + pex cores. It still has its flaws in not being able to beat amphy bliss and losing to terrak and lucario/ pins arc but the pros outweigh the cons.

Noivern is also one of the under utilized mons in the meta currently. Altho the rise of steels and blissey kinda hurts its viability , salamencite set esp taunt + super fang + roost are very proficient vs bulky teams. With Sablenite Corvi almost being non existant and presence of amphy blissey, Noivern has the potential to 1v1 both these mons v easily. Super fang in general is a great way of dismantling steels. It also outspeeds the urshifu forms and Zacian and thus is a nice mon to force them out. i've seen u-turn over taunt and sometimes defog over roost but w/e the other 2 moves be, super fang is a must for Noivern imho.

Speaking of Urshifu forms, both are not incredibly good rn as the meta stands. Single strike sufferers from being countered by the very common manectite mag and alt hippo and while rapid strike does way better job vs the previously mentioned mons it gains new checks in sable slowbro and pex which again are very common. In addition, both of these are still outsped by Zacian/ terrak (unless they run diancite) and are threatened by -atespeed user, further degrading their viability. However , being not able to know which form is being faced at preview is still a huge plus point for urshifu and with careful planning and playing , they can still dent teams to a great extent.

Just gonna club these 4 together cuz 99% of the time i see myself use atleast 2 of them for a defensive core in a team. I think Pex rn stands above all as a defensive mon and has very little reason to not use it in every team. Mag is the best mon in the meta and while manectite is one of the best counters to terrak , luc and zacian it can also be a cm setup sweeper or a physical sweeper wih pinsirite. Blissey does blissey things.While chazm has posted amphy blissey as a meme set, imo amphy blissey is an excellent sr setter and offers mold breaker toxic both very valuable fuctions for a team rn so its def a decent set. Hippo rn is an amazing physical wall altho i do wanna say altarianite hippo > sable hippo atm mainly cuz 1) sable hippo faces competition from slowbro/blissey as a sablenite user. 2) Alt hippo checks almost everything sable hippo checks( except for exca and few more mons) but with better offensive power to hit lucario and zacian.

TEAMS

 

[Knight who says "Ni"]

Hi everyone. I noticed a real lack of post-DLC teams in this thread (bar redflix's) and decided to share some of my own. Just a warning, some of these teams are a bit more on the meme-y side of things than others.


(click on sprites for links!)
The basic premise of this team is that Dugtrio can trap some of the things that Volcarona is weak to,including nearly all tyranitarite users, some pex variants and Blissey. Blissey is used on the team because cleric support is necessary for Volcarona to be effective more than once per game and teleport can be useful for bringing in Volcarona or Dugtrio. Clefable is used as the team's stealth rocks user and the teams primary answer to sablenite set-up, which could otherwise be troublesome. Corviknight and Mew both have defog because the team cannot afford to be PP stalled by stealth rockers and have Volcarona significantly weakened. Mew services as a decent ate check, which is especially necessary due to Volcarona's weakness to ate-speed users such as Arcanine.
However, I don't think this team is a particularly good team. It still struggles with some physical attackers especially Zacian, who can easily overpower you, with sets that opt for crunch over CC being particularly troublesome.


I wanted to try out tri attack Pinsirite Magearna. The spread is designed to outspeed Modest Diancite Pult at +2. I saw Rhyperior as the perfect partner to Magearna due to Magearna's need for stealth rocks to pressure fire types that may want to take it on and Rhyperior's ability to take on fire and electric types for Magearna. Mandibuzz and Slowbro complete a decent defensive core with Rhyperior, with Slowbro being able to switch into Terrakion and similarly threatening physical attackers, while Mandibuzz makes use of defog and can check otherwise problematic pokemon such as Pult and Kyurem. Arcanine was added for It's ability to beat Corviknight, something the rest of the offensive core struggled with. Choice scarf Zacian is an interesting choice, but a worthwhile one due to it being the fastest pokemon in the metagame and able to outspeed and kill threats like a +1 Excadrill and a +2 Pinsirite Gear. It can also RK Zacian with little prior chip, a pokemon this team is weak to (notice a theme?)


I initially created this team as more of a heat team, but I actually found myself thinking it was a very good team. Heracross is cool because of it's ability to pressure common sablenite users, especially since Sablenite Corvi is basically a non-issue atm. Rotom heat seemed like a pretty natural partner due to it's ability to pressure common Heracross switch-ins such as Corviknight, Magearna and Hippowdon. It also provides the team with some nice defensive utility in the form of checking Arcanine and Excadrill lacking Rock Slide. Clefable is a cool partner because Heracross really appreciates stealth rocks for it to be able to kill Mandibuzz at +2 and apply to stop Sablenite Hippo from setting up in my face. Mew forms a nice Volt-Turn core with Rotom and runs scald to punish physical attackers such as Urshifu, who could otherwise switch in easily and inflict a ton of pain onto this team. Mandibuzz is the teams primary form of hazard removal and provides an answer to Diancite Dragapult, where we would otherwise have none. I realised I had no win condition and that not one of my pokemon resisted Stealth Rocks so I decided that Excadrill was a logical choice. I went with Metagrossite because the team was rather slow.
This is probably my favourite of these teams but it is not perfect, partly due to the lack of speed control and weakness to Terrakion.


This team was never really meant to be that good but I find it fun. Magnezone interested me because it's offensive typing was capable of threatening the entire meta bar Bliss and like SpDef Hippowdon. I ran it with Dracovish because Dravovish can take on all of these things. Teleport Arcanine could bring both of them in on Pokemon they can beat. Milotic made sense here because team hard lost to Slowbro and Milotic took fuck all from all of it's attacks and clicked haze. Magearna was run as a blanket physical wall. Realised I had no defogger so I used Noivern. For a team that is intentionally shit it's not that bad.

Ban Zacian

 

[xavgb]

Hey, as we all know the first DLC has been out for a while now and with that I have a couple announcements to make.

Firstly, Quantum Tesseract is leaving the council. We wish him the best of luck in any future endeavours.

Alongside this, Catalystic will be joining the council. His knowledge as an active player on both the ladder and tours will be helpful for keeping metagame resources up to date, as well as making sure the metagame stays balanced and fun to play. Make sure to congratulate him whenever you see him!

The new council will be working on updating resources for the post-DLC meta now that it's had enough time to settle. We hope to start this with a Viability Rankings update later this week, so stay tuned for that.

 

[Sectonia]

Hopefully we can get new sample teams soon. I have a team that whoever in charge of sample teams can use to have something for it.

kinda lengthy description for the team

So when the DLC dropped, my first thoughts were that Urshifu was probably going to be a top tier threat, and all of this time after, it turned out to be correct. After fiddling with the Urshifu set a little bit, xavgb told me about the fateful calc that would make me decide on the set - the calc where Urshifu does around 50% to mega'd Banettite Toxapex with Thunder Punch - allowing me to beat it if it picked anything but Recover, and you still beat it if it spammed Recover because you have enough PP to just spam Thunder Punch and then win. It does really nice vs the water types that would try to switch in vs this, because Thunder Punch does so much, and you also conveniently happen to do a huge chunk with Adamant. That being said though, there will be times where I can't afford to have Urshifu out if it can't beat a water type, which is what Slowbro is for. It's a beast, beating most sab set-up users, and requiring specific ways to beat it, especially since it has STAB on scald, so if the sab user doesn't resist scald, they're in for a rough time. The rest of the team set itself up to try and support the core I built - Rotom-H is a hard counter to Magearna, and also cleanly gives me a Volt Switch user that can scare out threats with Drought Overheat. It's also been instrumental in helping me beat weather teams. Magearna gave me a pivot that also provided status healing, which assists Slowbro significantly, since the specific counterplay for Slowbro involves hitting it with a Mold Breaker Toxic, and Magearna is immune to Toxic, and restores Slowbro's longevity. Excadrill provided me a nice spinner, and Arcanine is a classic speed control user, with Teleport to help in bringing in threats that may want to switch into Arcanine (such as Toxapex, which is actually really nice!) into something that would force them out, and keep momentum in my favor.

Hoping that we can have some legal teams and ease the current difficulty in getting into OMs due to a lack of updated sample teams. I'm working on making more, but I think this team's pretty easy to use due to how the two main wincons are clear on how they work. This also has a fairly nice stall match-up, and I think any newcomer might appreciate seeing that.

 

[xavgb]

Sample Teams:


Blissey Balance by Chazm


Chandelure Bulky Offense by Andyboy

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Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Bulky Offense by SectoniaServant


Noivern + Magnezone Bulky Offense by xavgb


Volcarona Balance by Catalystic

Sample Teams are now updated for the post-DLC metagame! As this was the first slate for the new metagame, we only took council submissions and SectoniaServant's submission into consideration, but in the future we will announce when we are about to do an update to give non-council members an opportunity to submit teams for samples. I hope that these teams will give a clearer picture of the current metagame so that it's easier to get into.

 

[Ron]

Can't click on the chandelure bulky offense

 

[xavgb]

Can't click on the chandelure bulky offense

Oops, my mistake it seems I forgot to edit the link in... it's fixed now

 

[CarrotForNakama]

Bisharp gets a pretty significant Attack boost with Banettite, and you can use Taunt+Prankster to ensure Sucker Punch hits

 

[DarkRift94]

Honestly surprised to see neither of these sets with the release of the new DLC

Indeedee (M) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Terrain Pulse
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

This set has 2 big things going for it.
1. It negates Ate-speed users and similar ate-priority mons
2. It gets a base 100 power terrain pulse in psychic terrain, psychic terrain further boosts it's power to 130, and Mega Launcher (from Blastoisinite) boosts it by 1.5 to 195 AND stab on top of that brings us to 297.5, that is a LOT of damage.

Weavile @ Scizorite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bite
- Hone Claws
- Ice Shard
- Triple Axel

A new twist on the old Weavile set, having more consistency in Hone Claws + Triple Axel instead of Swords Dance + Icicle Spear
With technician, before stab, Triple Axel's hits will have 30, 60, and 90 base power, 180 total, at the cost of each hit only having a 90% chance to hit, which is where hone claws comes in to give a 120% chance to hit. If you want to roll the dice, you can switch out Hone Claws for Swords Dance, giving more damage. At this point though, Icicle Spear is insignificant compared to Triple Axel though.

 

[Redflix]

Gonna start by saying that im still trying to settle into whatever the meta is rn, so the post might just become dumb in the next few weeks but for now, ill stick to this opinion.
Right now while i dont feel any mon is broken , i do think Urshifu is suspect worthy. Access to strong stabs , its amazing ability to wall break with its movepool and its decentish bulk/speed tier make it a top tier mon which is well reflected in the vr, however i also think it pushes it over the edge sometimes.

Wicked Blow / Surging Strikes are super strong stabs and are biggest selling point of it with both dark, water being good offensive coverage. This combined with these moves getting boosted by tough claws / adaptability make them even more dreadful to tank. However apart from this, Urshifu also has access to U-turn , something which helps this mon way much in the meta. Having the ability to pivot around its checks or to chip an incoming defensive answer ( case of rapid strike being able to chip slowbro and thus weakening it) is huge and imo the biggest problem with it. Urshifu is easily able to chip its few checks until it can break them thus making it even more effective lategame. This is especially seen in the case of Manectite Magearna , a mon which is the used as most common defensive answer to urshifu single strike.
A simple sequence of wicked blow + u-turn shoots mag's hp to 73ish%. In turn mag majority of the time finds its difficult to heal and would rather volt switch/ fleur canon. This essentially makes mag way vulnerable the next time it comes because now its in range for a 2hko from cc.
-1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna-Original: 115-136 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Similarly Aerodactylite Urshifu Rapid Strike can chip Sablenite Slowbro with a U-turn enought to put it in tpunch's 2hko range

Calcs

vs U-turn 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu-Rapid-Strike U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs Tpunch 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Another popular mon to check urshifu is Ampharosite Clef which while does a decent job checking rapid strike but can easily be 2hkoed by metagrossite single strikes's iron head/poison jab which are popular alternatives to sucker punch as the 4th move .
252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While obviously this needs prediction to be done from the urshifu user but im p sure this atleast tells us that clef too cannot be considered a good defensive long time check.
When we talk about checks to each varient exclusively apart from altarianite hippowdon checking single strike , we have no mon that 100% checks rapid strike. ( even pex gets 2hkoed by tpunch so ur best bet is to toxic it)
This leads to another minor point of urshifu being very good is that there is almost no defensive mon can check both varients, thus at team preview urshifu becomes even more dangerous as the user does not know which varient would it be. This is not a very big selling point but can be considered an added bonus that contributes to urshifu's lowkey brokeness in the meta.
Have also seen people use mons such as slowbronite magearna/slowbronite mew or salamencite corvi as a check. Slowbronite mag suffers the same problem as other magearna varients but thus time cc hurts more and wicked blow/surging strikes less. I have personally used slowbronite mew and can say its def not a safe check to rapid strike and takes like 33 from u-turn.
Salamecite corvi is in 2hko range from lucarionite/aerdactylite urshifu varients if rocks are up thus making it also not an effective counter.

Calc 2

metagrossite single strike
vs slowbronite mag 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna-Original: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs salamencite corviknight 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 156-184 (39 - 46%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
lucarionite single strike
vs salamencite corviknight 252+ Atk Adaptability Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 182-216 (45.5 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs slowbronite mag 252+ Atk Adaptability Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna-Original: 158-188 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
aerodactylite rapid strike
vs salamencite corviknight 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight on a critical hit: 171-201 (42.7 - 50.2%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
vs slowbronite mew 252+ Atk Tough Claws Urshifu-Rapid-Strike U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 124-148 (30.6 - 36.6%) -- 65% chance to 3HKO

obviously offensive counterplay/ revenge killing exists for both urshifu forms especially after their speed tier is hindered by them majorly running adamant nature, however the point of this post was to highlight how little defensive play exists in meta rn and how both varients can easily bypass it thus making it suspect worthy imho.

 

[a girlboss]

Crown Tundra is right around the corner, so I thought I'd share the team I've been using since Isle of Armor came out.

https://pokepast.es/17b6bddf1907ab43
​

The Team

Magearna and Mandibuzz are the main defensive core of this team, with Magearna stuffing Special hits and intimidating physical threats while pivoting out to Mandi. Whirlwind prevents any non-Diancite sweepers from getting out of hand, while Toxic hits non-Sablenite walls.

Jirachi is the mon I always lead with. Magic Bounce prevents enemy hazards as it usually does, U-Turn is a great pivot move that allows me to Volt-Turn with Mag, Doom Desire is just a great move to click Turn 1 or 2 to apply a lot of pressure and Psychic is just very strong.

One thing I really enjoy about MnM is -ate Spinners, and Starmie really fits well into the team. Altarianite gives it a great SpA boost, allowing it to not only prevent spinblocking attempts, but also catch unsuspecting Dark-types off-guard with Fairy-type Tri Attack. The Def boost is also a welcome one since Water/Fairy is a pretty good defensive typing. Thunderbolt might be better coverage, since you already have Kyurem to dish out Ice moves and Tri Attack takes care of dragons.

Now, I love Gen 5. It's my favorite generation. And Kyurem is my 2nd favorite Pokémon. But what Kyurem does is something no other mon can do. With Kyurem's three new tools in Icicle Spear, Dragon Dance and Isle of Armor's Scale Shot, Kyurem is one of the best users of Heracronite, in my opinion. The only things holding it back are poor physical coverage and Scale Shot's 90% accuracy. If you manage to chip down any Steel-types, Kyurem can easily sweep most teams once you get a DD off.

Terrakion hits like a truck already, so Lopunnite just pushes it to the max. Any Ghosts hoping to force a switch just get demolished by Close Combat. And since Scrappy was buffed this generation, it doesn't need to fear Intimidate! A great revenge killer that applies a lot of pressure.

This team could use some improvements, maybe with their IV spreads, but I am very satisfied with it. Curious to see what Crown Tundra will give us!

 

[Fish Gaming]

Wouldn't it make sense to add the crowned items to the mega stones list? They add a type to Zacian / Zamazenta, and they give them stat boosts, just like mega stones.

 

[Gman]

Wouldn't it make sense to add the crowned items to the mega stones list? They add a type to Zacian / Zamazenta, and they give them stat boosts, just like mega stones.

Hello and thank you for taking an interest in Mix and Mega :)

While your idea may be applicable in theory, it is very unlikely to follow through in practice.
This because, simply put, the two Crowned Items are not formally Megastones. As you can read in this post, to be able to keep the metagame in a generation where the interactions of the Megastones with Pokemon are not coded, the OM leadership has decided to formally limit the scope of the metagame strictly to Megastones, to avoid having a rather complex pet mod that would be harder to justify. The precedent set by Primal Orbs, which would help your case, has been barred, they have been excluded from the Metagame. And for comparison's sake, the Primal Orbs share quite a few more similarities with Megastones (in that they at least implement an in game transformation and in that, like the sheer majority of Megastones, they add +100 Base Stats) than the two Crowned Items. As such, including the Crowned Items would be conceptually contradictory to this decision.
You may be dissatisfied with the answer, but please understand that these choices were made in order to preserve a metagame which would otherwise have been unjustifiable in Gen 8; relegating it to a pet mod would have meant not having a functional ladder any longer.
Thank you for our understanding and have a great day :)

On other news, who's excited for DLC2???

 

[WolfishOne]

I'm fairly new but have spent a while reading and researching the meta
At any rate one of the most potent threats of USUM mnm is back and likely will become the king of Mix And Mega since pdon got thanos'd.
Expecting standard SubCoil or DD sets


Another staple but this time has no blue orb to eliminate it's fire STAB


This doesn't seem healthy at all. It's just going to plow everything with diancite cos expanding force go brrrrrr. It even has a STAb that says screw you to dark types

 

[a girlboss]

Tomorrow.

Spoiler

Blue Orb will be missed, since it supposedly gets Weather Ball. Perfect accuracy Thunder and Hurricanes? Weather Ball to bop ground types? RIP.

hi blaziken
Scorching Sands is a cool move, but... there's not much it hits Close Combat doesn't. Toxapex, I guess?

ban. ban. ban. ban
252 SpA Diancite Tapu Lele Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 198-234 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- 87.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
SABLENITE. BLISSEY. 255/60/185 BULK.
(psyshock is a guaranteed 3hko)


Lati@s get Mystic Fire, which is just better Gen5 HP Fire. They're great mons in general, so I expect a lot of good things from them.


Dual Wingbeat and lack of Return means both will be.... not broken, maybe? Scizorite Nite, anyone?


It gets Scale Shot. Heracronite gives Attack. I think you see where I'm going with this.


They get a lot of great new moves, especially Raikou. Not looking forward to the Entei spam the ladder will be infested with again. Arcanine was a lot more manageable, but GOD Entei is insuferrable. Probably not broken, but I'm praying it gets banned without Blue Orb to stop it. In other news, Suicune gets Air Slash, Raikou gets Weather Ball and Aura Sphere (which were event-exclusive and forced you to run Rash nature), Entei gets Flare Blitz, which was also event-locked...... sigh.

i somehow missed this mon
Good answer to a lot of things probably, does what Quagsire could never dream of (phazing) and what Gastrodon wishes it could do (set Rocks).

everything else is NOT COOL ENOUGH i wont comment on them

 

[DrPumpkinz]

This doesn't seem healthy at all. It's just going to plow everything with diancite cos expanding force go brrrrrr. It even has a STAb that says screw you to dark types

ban. ban. ban. ban
252 SpA Diancite Tapu Lele Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 198-234 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- 87.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
SABLENITE. BLISSEY. 255/60/185 BULK.
(psyshock is a guaranteed 3hko)

Am I missing something? (Probably, because I don't play this meta)

Mega Lele honestly sounds way less scary than regular Tapu Lele. Once it Mega Evolves, it only have five turns at maximum to blast stuff with Expanding Force, after which it is permanently incapable of setting Psychic Terrain back up.

 

[Low-Key]

Honestly, what do y'all think about Aggronite Toxapex? It's a pretty cool setup, it grants way too more defense, and it allows you to set up more easily.


Toxapex @ Aggronite
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Liquidation

Not to mention the attack stat goes all the way up to FREAKING 93. That's the same attack as Skuntank! (The attack stat also beats legendaries like Cobalion!)

This set should be what Toxapex users should use these days. My math says these are the stats of Aggronite Toxapex-Mega:
50/93/202/53/162/35

Look at that defense stat, 202?! That may be easily guaranteed a ban.....

 

[fififlutters]

Honestly, what do y'all think about Aggronite Toxapex? It's a pretty cool setup, it grants way too more defense, and it allows you to set up more easily.


Toxapex @ Aggronite
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Liquidation

Not to mention the attack stat goes all the way up to FREAKING 93. That's the same attack as Skuntank! (The attack stat also beats legendaries like Cobalion!)

This set should be what Toxapex users should use these days. My math says these are the stats of Aggronite Toxapex-Mega:
50/93/202/53/162/35

Look at that defense stat, 202?! That may be easily guaranteed a ban.....

The issue with this is that it loses its Poison-typing and thus its immunity to Poison moves. If you want a different Toxapex that shows off similar defensive capabilities try out Latiasite Toxapex - its defense of 182 isn't as high but its defensive typing combined with Levitate is far superior to other options.

e: In The Hills has notified me that Toxapex is infact Poison primary. This makes Aggronite considerably worse as Poison primary doesn't really make Pex wall too much in the current meta.