M&M Mix and Mega

Coming through with a couple more tiering things:

We have decided to re-ban Moody. Moody was freed due to no longer boosting evasion this gen, however it still remains a skill-less strategy which is capable of taking most of the meta down based on luck with boosts. This replay serves as an example of how Glalie can break through attempted checks with the right boosts.

Tagging The Immortal

Secondly, we're suspecting Eternatus. Details can be found here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mix-and-mega-suspect-1-eternatus.3658002/
Finally suspecting eternatus. if you ban anything, ban eternatus, not zacian. crowned zamazenta is also an option to be banned as it can behemoth bash zacian and can stop something like haxorus with mewtwonite x or diancite dragapult. (NOTE: the above statement is untested)
 
Potentially scary Eternatus set:
Eternatus @ Black Sludge / Metronome
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 124 SpA / 44 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower / Substitute
- Cosmic Power
- Recover

Either use your good matchups or eat a 2KO, and then stall them with Pressure Cosmic Power. Pokemon running 1 move for Eternatus will *struggle* to beat it. I believe this thing is doing well in ubers and it may do better here. Metronome is actually a real fun idea on normal eternatus for Black Sludge lowers KO thresholds.

252 SpA Eternatus Dragon Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 44 SpD Eternatus: 204-240 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Sheer Force Cameruptite Vaporeon Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 44 SpD Eternatus: 160-190 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO (this is the set I've been seeing more of on the latter, 252 SpA is still not a 2KO at +1)
252 Atk Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 154-182 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 90% chance to 3HKO (rare move regardless)
252 Atk Pixilate Altarianite Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 183-216 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (unboosted, howl boosts match cosmic power boosts)
 
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Pokeseba

I COULD BE BANNED!
My Sylveon Set:
1578153605437.png

Sylveon @ Sablenite
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect
Let's see, since it gets an excellent bulk (95/115/131), it is a very good wall to beat dragons like the Altarianite common, which I like very much, so although it is not great, it is relatively good I think
 
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Merry Chreemas, fellow Smogonites! In time for the merry spirit, allow me to make yet another cruddy post just for you over everyone's favorite coverage type; Ice!

1577287220441.png

Mamoswine @ Lucarionite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard

A ground type physical attacker sounds like a terrible idea with CorviPex as the dominant defensive core, but Mamoswine gets by with a secondary STAB that can chunk Corvi and can flinch and decimates common Pex builds while simultaneously being able to exert pressure on Offense via Ice Shard and Stealth Rock. However, Corviknight isn't too afraid of Icicle Crash, particularly Sablenite builds.

1577287200510.png

Weavile @ Glalitite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Facade
- Throat Chop
- Swords Dance

Weavile is terrifying against offense thanks to access to two forms of priority in Quick Attack and Fake Out. Swords Dance Weavile can straight up clean games if an offensive team isn't prepared for it, and can erve as a backbone to prevent 1 HP Toxapex from recovering to full. In addition, Prankster builds that run anything status-wise fail against Weavile (excluding Haze) thanks to Dark type immunity to Prankster.

1577287184360.png


Rotom-Frost @ Lucarionite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot
- Will-O-Wisp

Offensive balance-breaker that fucks CorviPex. Not much more really needs to be said. With a poor defensive typing yet one of the best offensive typings (and far better stats than Arctozolt), Rotom-Frost's newfound access to Nasty Plot turns it from a below average meme into something that can be threatening. Pidgeotite will always be its main stone, though, so its lack of access to it makes Frost sad.

1577287159495.png
(but not kyu white)
Kyurem @ Glalitite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Dragon Dance

It gets DDance. It took them several years but they finally did it to my boy. Kyurem has the unique issue that it has no really redeeming qualities outside of newfound access to Dragon Dance as one of the highest BST users of it, but can still nonetheless use Glalitite to intimidate certain mons either out into the field or scare them out. You can also run a slower set with Sub + Dragon Tail to keep out Corviknight and phaze with hazards up.

However, it should be said that not only is regular Kyurem not all that great at abusing Dragon Dance (and is unreleased), once Necrozma Dusk Mane, Zekrom and even Reshiram are released they all are much more terrifying than Kyurem and don't require a stone to be useful. Namely, Zekrom breaks CorviPex while also just straight up being Bolt Strike.exe. Dusk Mane has Photon Geyser and Sunsteel if you truly want a sweeper (but SD is still better) but lacks the coverage to break Corviknight.


Enjoy your Christmas, everyone!
 
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2019-12/gen8mixandmega-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2019-12/moveset/gen8mixandmega-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2019-12/metagame/gen8mixandmega-1630.txt

It's that time again... that's right, the usage stats are here! And also a long post about the meta right now (I'm so glad to be back here) To start things off, Corviknight, Arcanine, Eternatus, and Dragapult all are very popular, and are keystones to the meta, each in their own way.
Corviknight is currently the Skarmory stand-in, and doing a darn fine job at it, at that. There's even some solid offensive presence from this bird, as some can certainly attest to, having lost to one. Arcanine is now the primary -ate speeder, having access to both Intimidate and a good typing in pure Fire, lending itself to offensive prowess with its STAB combination, all the while having good coverage and reliable healing. Eternatus has its details specified in the suspect thread, and is very powerful, and Dragapult.. is very fast and has like ten sets or something. (It'll probably get its own post analyzing it in depth later from me)

But I didn't want to just dedicate this post to the top dogs, no... something else caught my eye. Something so loud, it could not be ignored. And it needs some justice here for its success.

1578073442090.png


Toxtricity @ Pinsirite
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch/Nuzzle/Shift Gear
- Substitute/Volt Switch/Taunt

Give it up for Toxtricity and its main set! Electric/Posion is a great typing, but changing it into Electric/Flying throws people in for a real loop, and Boomburst does real damage. So much, that it just OHKOs a Gyaradosite Shuckle. Naturally, most walls are going to be hurting, and Corviknight really despises this boombox; both Electric/Poison and Electric/Flying perfectly resist its common coverage, along with the STAB combination. Thunderbolt also does quite a bit, making sure Toxapex and the aforementioned Corviknight have to live in fear of judgment as long as Toxtricity lives. Volt Switch ensures you keep momentum, Nuzzle provides an avenue of guaranteed paraylsis, which is great if you know you're in for a long battle, Shift Gear gives more of a sweeping angle, if you want it, while Substitute exists to ease predictions. Taunt can be used as a neat anti-lead measure at times, and can make handling certain walls easier. Also of note is that Toxtricity can run bulk instead of speed, and that allows it to comfortably take on Dragapult from full, and take even an Extreme Speed critical from Altarianite Arcanine.

But yes, there's more than Pinsirite. There's also Glalite (Boltburst is absolutely devastating to certain teams, as many people know), Altarianite, rounding up the Boombust part of the list... and if you really want to catch someone off guard... it gets Shift Gear and a decent physical move pool.

Toxtricity @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Shift Gear
- Poison Jab/Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch/Drain Punch/Substitute/Throat Chop


While the Boomburst sets are definitely more popular and more successful, 98 Physical attack before Mega Evolving is not the worst place to start with, especially for something with Shift Gear. Tough Claw and the boost from Aerodactylite means Toxtricity's STABs have some sting to them, and the last slot is either for coverage or for making a sweep that much harder to stop. Fire Punch is for Steel-types, as is Drain Punch, while Throat Chop is specifically to keep Dragapult from stopping a sweep. Like with the last set, you can shift some speed into bulk if you want to creep specific threats while taking hits. Shift Gear sets do need to watch out for Ground types, especially Hippowdon and Rhyperior, the latter of which rose into prominence for its Tyranitarite set as a rock setter.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Some more things:

Firstly, I'd like to give a big shoutout to Kaiju Bunny for our new banner. It's nice to see our thread looking super cool.

On another note, the council is currently working on getting resources up before MnM open, starting with the VR. Feel free to post any takes you have on the post-Eternatus metagame in the meantime, as that was a major thing getting in the way of making a VR earlier.
 

Chazm

Chazm is free on PS!
is a Pre-Contributor
And with this because I'm an impatient fuck I'd like to announce to you my personal VR, one of six that will be averaged in the first generation 8 VR.
S
Note: S -> A- are ranked by viability but this is due to personal preference

:corviknight: Corviknight (Sablenite, Venusaurite, Banettite, Metagrossite, Aerodactylite)

Corviknight is the most viable Pokemon in Mix and Mega for multiple reasons, but the main one is that it’s the best defogging and pivoting option by far out of this list. It’s seriously splashable as a result, making it fit on effectively every team at some point in their development due to its capability to check otherwise scary threats like Excadrill, Rhyperior, Kommo-o, Noivern and Hydreigon. It can also act as a general purpose tank even with Sablenite, as 97 Attack Brave Birds can do solid damage to the frailer breakers in the metagame like Gengar. Bulk Up sets that utilize Metagrossite / Aerodactylite can be quite tough to switch into without an Electric type like Rotom-W, and even those can be worn down. In general it compresses a large portion of roles for a team that allow free slots to be so prevalent in Mix and Mega compared to last generation – definitely my #1 choice.

:arcanine: Arcanine (Altarianite, Pinsirite)

Arcanine is quite possibly our best speed control option which packs a solid level of utility with a potentially devastating sweeping capability. A lot of wallbreakers in the current metagame are quite weak to Fairy types and this is why Altarianite is listed first despite Pinsirite being the better sweeping variant. Never-the-less, both of these variants are great at controlling the pace of the metagame and making sure threats like Hydreigon and Mew don’t get away with it easily. Being capable of taking hits from other possible speed control options like Lucario and Dragapult is also a great deal for it as it tends to make lategames with these Pokemon around easier to handle.

A+

:hydreigon: Hydreigon (Blastoisinite, Diancite, Altarianite, Lucarionite)

Quite possibly the most devastating wallbreaker I have on this list, Blastoisinite Hydreigon has shown itself to be a masterclass in corebreaking and wears down Altarianite users like Kommo-o and Arcanine easily. Corviknight is only barely able to tank it at +2, and Toxapex will sometimes even be setup fodder for it, particularly Diancite variants. It even has some defensive utility – it takes on both Rotom-H and Rotom-W, and its decent Speed tier allows it to revenge kill a large amount of other threats like Dracozolt, Dracovish and Excadrill. Altarianite Hydreigon also allows Hydreigon to break through Fairy-type counters like Sylveon.

:toxapex: Toxapex (Banettite, Sablenite, Latiasite)

One of the most frustrating Pokemon to break past right now. Banettite Toxapex no longer suffers from the large amount of issues it had in USM – the power level is just right for it to become a big part of the metagame again, taking on Lucario, Arcanine, and Kommo-o with ease. Being one of the few Pokemon this generation with Toxic is also a boon to be blessed with and it’s one of the main reasons Toxapex is such a difficult Pokemon to play around in the current metagame.

:kommo-o: Kommo-o (Altarianite, Pinsirite)

Kommo-o’s a defining Stealth Rock user in the metagame and it defines what is a bouncer and what isn’t a bouncer. It’s very important for dealing with Dragapult and other water types like Dracovish thus making it a great role compressor for a lot of teams that can harm things within an instant, and has few good resists. Sadly for Kommo-o a lot of these resists tend to be top tier. It also has a smaller niche which can utilize Clangorous Soul pretty well with a mixed attacking set, but this is yet to be fully unleashed and I’m ranking this primarily as a role compressor Stealth Rock setter.

A

:dragapult: Dragapult (Diancite)

Brilliantly fast mon and has coverage that’s tough to wall, but tends to have issues with trying to decide its final move (two of U-turn / Thunder / Hydro Pump). Its 203 base Speed with Diancite affords it a Modest nature which it can use to pick up 2HKOs with Thunder that it would usually miss out on, such as Sablenite Corviknight, Mandibuzz and physically defensive Toxapex. Aside from this however it is fairly one-dimensional and lacks the power to do much against teams with harder counters like Clefable and Sylveon.

:excadrill: Excadrill (Metagrossite, Lucarionite, Latiosite)

Strong wallbreaker that sadly suffers from Corviknight being omnipresent. Aside from this though, because its main counter is Corviknight, and it happens to have a good set of resistances even without running a Levitate stone, Excadrill has great team synergy which it can abuse to get past CorviPex cores, particularly synergizing well with Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat and Dracozolt. Latiosite also has a good niche in being able to spin hazard guaranteed out of Rhyperior teams and its decent bulk allows it to threaten out other potentially frustrating Stealth Rock setters like Kommo-o.

:rhyperior: Rhyperior (Tyranitarite)

Eternatus is gone but Rhyperior is still a very solid mon that takes on a lot of threats in the metagame. I tend to prefer specially defensive EVs with HP investment, primarily so it can take on Dracozolt and other Fire types better, but it can also run more offensive spreads which allow it to claw past Corviknight easier. However, it still suffers quite badly from Water types and Body Press Corviknight can be an issue for it as it chunks Rhyperior for a large amount.

A-

:rotom-wash: Rotom-W (Manectite, Latiasite, Glalitite)

Rotom-W takes the idea of a Water resist and couples it together with a breaker capable of beating down CorviPex cores. For that alone it already creates a significant niche for itself but combined with the fact that its switchins tend to get very heavily punished by Thunder Wave makes it a powerful supportive wincon that can take the punishment throughout a game. The reasons it doesn’t really go any further is a lack of recovery which can force balance teams including it to rely on WishPass which is exploitable in the current metagame.

:mew: Mew (Lopunnite, Cameruptite, Gyaradosite)

Lopunnite Mew is one of the best wallbreakers in the metagame – having the Psychic typing to take on Toxapex is one of the best things a wallbreaker could want right now. And whilst it does struggle with dealing with mons like Arcanine, it still has the tools to handle them, with Gunk Shot dealing excellent damage to Arcanine and Kommo-o, but leaving out some damage on Corviknight – albeit Close Combat will do enough damage to effectively make it dead at least. Cameruptite Mew can also do the same roles as most of these CorviPex breakers but it also has the ability to punish switchins heavily with Spikes, and it is one of the best setters of them to put more salt in the wound. Aside this Nasty Plot is probably the best stallbreaker of the metagame but needs some support vs offensive teams as it will hardly ever get off more than one or two hits.

:gengar: Gengar (Diancite, Manectite, Lucarionite)

Gengar’s a pretty nuts wallbreaker but it struggles quite hard with Sablenite Toxapex without Thunderbolt, and Rhyperior without Focus Blast. Never the less, unlike most of the wallbreakers on this VR, Gengar has one of the highest Speed stats of them all, as well as having a Fairy resistant typing making Gengar quite a tough Pokemon to revenge kill. Not much else to say here about it.

:noivern: Noivern (Salamencite)

Prior to last gen where it was used as an offensive defogger (by me), Noivern definitely settles better into the defensive role where in my opinion it is the best Fighting check in the metagame. Super Fang wears down Corviknight very fast and it is one of the few Pokemon to be blessed with Defog this generation. Although its Special Defense is weak, it can also tank a few boosted Fire moves from the likes of Chandelure, and on the physical side it can beat non Outrage Dracovish and Lopunnite Mew. Even with low Special Attack investment it still heavily dents wallbreakers like Excadrill and prevents them from coming in often, making this one of the best mons for Bulky Offense at the moment.

:mamoswine: Mamoswine (Lucarionite, Scizorite)

Solid Stealth Rock setter that can tend to struggle with Corviknight without Icicle Crash flinches or some luck in Icicle Spear rolls but it often gets enough turns to do this. Mamoswine can also tend to tank a few things here and there, such as Toxtricity and Dracozolt, but aside from that it’s much like the past gen.

:jellicent: Jellicent (Banettite)

Alike to Noivern, Jellicent is a solid defensive presence but instead of being a fast support it’s a much harder wall to Dracovish, Mew and other potential physical threats with the unique ability to halt a sweep immediately with PrankWisp and the newly acquired Strength Sap. Sadly it doesn’t really get much utility from there, but it can be very frustrating to deal with burns from Scald + Wisp all the time.

B+

:barraskewda: Barraskewda (Lopunnite, Aerodactylite)

Being a fast threat is quite beneficial for Barraskewda as it can afford to run an Adamant nature which gets crucial rolls for 2HKOs on Toxapex and other Pokemon like Corviknight. It also happens to be pretty good at punishing other Water resists like Jellicent and Kommo-o with its solid coverage options.

:dracovish: Dracovish (Metagrossite, Sharpedonite, Swampertite)

Vish suffers some issues in speed in the bulky offense matchups, but its stallbreaking powers cannot be denied as it is one of the hardest wallbreakers to resist properly in the game. Metagrossite Sub Super Fang is a tough set to deal with in the long run and aside from somewhat dedicated slots like Jellicent this set doesn’t really have a long lasting counter. Other sets are powerful but suffer from Jellicent balance harder.

:dracozolt: Dracozolt (Metagrossite, Diancite)

Takes some time to take out the opposing Ground types but once you have it’s basically free real estate for Dracozolt. PixiSpeed can prove frustrating at times but none of them can hard into Bolt Beak and Dracozolt often has multiple moves to punish them directly. Not really scary outside of these balance matchups like Dracovish however

:hippowdon: Hippowdon (Venusaurite, Sablenite, Pinsirite)

Pretty solid check to Rhyperior and Excadrill, as well as somewhat punishing with Pinsirite + Curse, but again, not too much has changed from last generation from Hippowdon. It struggles with Levitate users and isn’t the best Stealth Rock setter but can be potentially deadly with the right team.

:rotom-heat: Rotom-Heat (Glalitite, Latiasite, Charizardite Y)

Rotom-Heat is a strong wallbreaker capable of lighting up CorviPex as well as dishing out some heavy damage to Fire resistances. Its final moveslot can also be dedicated to good punishing options like Will-O-Wisp for use against Rhyperior as it cannot really harm it. Aside from this it generally suffers from being slow as well as being outclassed by Rotom-Wash as a bulky pivot due to its Stealth Rock weakness. Top in B+ but not convinced about moving it yet.

B

:chandelure: Chandelure (Cameruptite, Charizardite Y)

Fairly strong breaker with loads of different options for specific targets but very linear outside of that. Walled by Toxapex half the time and can’t deal with general SpDef walls outside of that.

:corsola-galar: Corsola-Galar (Gyaradosite)

Strong Stealth Rock setter but fails to counter a lot due to Scrappy being very common. However, being Mold Breaker does allow it to take a few Pokemon completely under, such as Bulk Up Corviknight. It also checks Excadrill and co quite easily.

:cursola: Cursola (Ampharosite)

Alternate variant to Corsola-Galar. It loses the ability to check Excadrill reliably and takes a lot more damage from Corviknight but the utility roles are pretty much the same. It however can also act as a wallbreaker against Toxapex cores alongside being a solid Stealth Rock setter with a good Fire resistance due to its high 150 base Special Defense.

:ditto: Ditto (Choice Scarf)

Good revenge killer as a lot of mons hit theirselves super effectively. It’s a boon for balance as that allows it to quite comfortably take on Dracovish / Dracozolt users and beat Hydreigon without needing a clunky WishPasser like Sylveon.

:gastrodon: Gastrodon (Sablenite, Venusaurite)

Eternatus got nuked and thus Gastrodon is no longer as good as it was but this thing still has a good niche in being capable of being a dual mode Mega – walls Dracovish unmega and takes on Rhyperior and a few other Electric wallbreakers. However, it does suffer with the large amount of Dragon types in the metagame, particularly Hydreigon.

:mandibuzz: Mandibuzz (Sablenite)

Still a good pivot that’s capable of checking Ghost types but it’s not nearly as important as it used to be as a lot of special threats can just muscle their way past it without it causing much trouble, and it is still weak to the Fossils.

:toxtricity: Toxtricity (Glalitite)

Strong wallbreaker but it doesn’t have that strong of a Special Attack meaning that even if it gets in on CorviPex it can’t really dish out much damage otherwise, either from getting Scald burned, having to predict or taking too much damage from Brave Bird. It does beat Pex eventually but it tends to take a lot of damage in the process, which can leave it picked off by Extreme Speed. Difficult to wall, viable option but don’t expect it to switch in often.

:tyranitar: Tyranitar (Pinsirite)

Fairly solid DD user as it still has large bulk after Mega Evolution that can check a few things allowing it to set up easily, but tends to struggle against Bulk Up Corviknight and some other Water types like Gastrodon. It can also struggle against Rhyperior due to being unable to OHKO it at +1.

B-

:clefable: Clefable (Ampharosite, Cameruptite)

Can either be a decent Stealth Rock setter or be a fairly strong stallbreaker with utility roles like taking on Dragapult. Not really worth it outside of this.

:golisopod: Golisopod (Aerodactylite)

Either has mighty priority or the ability to break cores involving Toxapex, but it will always struggle to find slots for either Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, or First Impression.

:gyarados: Gyarados (Salamencite)

Another decent DD sweeper but it doesn’t get as many setup opportunities and can find itself walled at the worst of times, such as vs Manectite Rotom-W, Banettite Corviknight, etc. But it can hit most targets with STAB at least and this gives it a minor place in the metagame.

:indeedee: Indeedee (Diancite)

Indeedee’s role as an offensive cleric and compilation of speed control makes it a fair anti metagame choice, clearing the field once the opponent’s Steel-type has been eliminated. However, it struggles heavily in the early

:lucario: Lucario (Pinsirite)

Strong setup sweeper but it arguably requires VoltTurn support to do its job best, and a breaker that can either wear down Corviknight like Noivern or a breaker that abuses Corviknight being omnipresent, like Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat or Toxtricity.

:reuniclus: Reuniclus (Sablenite, Banettite)

Reuniclus is a decent wall alongside being a good CM wincon for uses against Toxapex balances. It’s difficult to break without a Dark type and can accumulate boosts quite easily. Probably the best mon in this rank.

C

:cinderace: Cinderace (Lopunnite)

Largely outclassed by Arcanine but a much higher Speed tier alongside U-turn makes it a valuable cleaner for some bulky offense.

:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-Galar (Choice Band)

If you can predict well with GDarm then it rewards you, otherwise it’s a terrible mon that you can’t really fit onto a team since other breakers may do the job better.

:dugtrio: Dugtrio (Lopunnite)

Niche trapper that can get rid of Toxapex, worn down Rhyperior and Electric wallbreakers. A decent balance / stall pick but not that great otherwise.

:pelipper:Pelipper (Damp Rock)

Rain setter – doesn’t really do much outside of this, but the style itself has some very strong weapons like Rotom-Wash and Swampertite Dracovish, so it’s worth using for Drizzle support alone.

:shuckle: Shuckle (Gyaradosite, Ampharosite)

Solid lead but can tend to face competition against Mew. Shuckle also has the capability of setting Webs which allow some unique sweepers like Hydreigon and Gengar to get the jump on every other speed control option in the metagame aside ESpeed.

:sylveon: Sylveon (Sablenite)

A decent cleric / Wishpasser that compresses a lot of special attackers into one answer, but is easily pressured due to its reliance on singular coverage and WishTect.

:weavile: Weavile (Pinsirite, Glalitite)

Solid cleaner but it lacks the power or consistency to get past CorviPex a lot of the time. It also has a crippling weakness to PixiSpeed which can end its journey short, but it’s worth it if you want Fake Out support.

:wobbuffet: Wobbuffet (Leftovers)

Trapper that’s a bit more effective at dealing with threats like Rhyperior but it cannot deal with more than one attacking side at once and is rather prediction reliant.
 
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https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-01/gen8mixandmega-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-01/moveset/gen8mixandmega-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-01/metagame/gen8mixandmega-1630.txt

You know that feeling when Mix and Mega doesn't get a new post in a whole month? That's very sad. I'm at least going to change this with the usage stats here. It's also becoming more apparent that I'm going to nd to make a wrap-up post before this whole meta changes with the new additions that will be coming in the following months... and it's going to involve like the ten sets Dragapult can have, and how good they are right now. That'll be for a follow-up post, most likely.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Now that Pokemon Home has been out for a few days, a couple of mons have caught the eye of the council for their clear impact on the metagame. The council will be voting on Melmetal and Terrakion shortly.

Melmetal has only just been released, but it has already made a huge splash in the metagame, mostly with its Metagrossite set. The combination of Double Iron Bash, High Horsepower, and Thunder Punch make it a menace to switch into, 2HKOing nearly every top defensive threat in the tier and landing huge chip on offensive mons that try to threaten it. The last slot on Melmetal is typically Substitute, however Thunder Wave has also seen some use, notably allowing it to break two of the main faster Melmetal checks in Defensive Lunala and Manectite Mew. On top of its general threat level, Melmetal notably gains the ability to take advantage of its signature move Double Iron Bash more effectively than it can in other tiers, due to the fact that it now has the option to outspeed a lot of potential walls and take advantage of DIB's 51 percent chance, adding an argument for why it could also be seen as an uncompetitive mon.

Terrakion is an old familiar face that has now been unleashed in the Gen 8 Metagame. Having been discussed at length by the council in Gen 7, Terrakion is well-known for its capacity as a wallbreaker, and with the new generation taking mons away from its already limited pool of checks, the council has taken note of Terrakion's effect on teambuilding. However, the loss of Return has slightly cut Terrakion's variety in sets, with Gen 7's Pinsirite set losing viability, and at least some checks have remained in the metagame such as Manectite Mew and Banettite Toxapex. In this case, the council will also be looking to judge whether Terrakion is an unhealthy presence in the teambuilder, as well as in games.

I will make another post in this thread once voting is completed, which will hopefully happen before the next round of the Mix and Mega Open.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
With all of the votes counted, I can now post the results of the council votes of Melmetal and Terrakion.


Andyboy​
Chazm​
Gmansour20​
In The Hills​
Quantum Tesseract​
Stresh​
Melmetal​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Terrakion​
No Ban​
Ban​
No Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
No Ban​

To clarify these results, this means that Melmetal is now banned from holding stones in Mix and Mega. Tagging The Immortal to implement this.

Upon further discussion within the council during the voting stage, we have reached the conclusion that the outcome of the Terrakion vote may be largely dependent on how the metagame develops after Melmetal's ban. The 3-3 split vote you see here isn't enough to quickban Terrakion from the metagame, and these votes are also based on Terrakion's impact in the metagame prior to Melmetal's ban. Since Terrakion is already being considered a borderline bannable threat based on these votes, we would still like to vote on it soon, but we are unsure on whether these votes would even be the same a week from now in light of Melmetal's ban. With these circumstances in mind, the council will vote on Terrakion again during the coming week. In the event that the vote is still split at 3-3, we will proceed with a suspect test on Terrakion.

Another issue that has been raised with Mix and Mega as a whole is the current response to Shadow Tag. The MnM Open has seen some fringe usage of Gothita and Wobbuffet, which has had mixed results. As there is now some demonstration that Shadow Tag as a whole may be unhealthy for the metagame, the council will also be voting on a potential full Shadow Tag ban alongside our Terrakion vote. As a Shadow Tag ban would be based more on principle than metagame impact, we see no issue with running this vote alongside Terrakion's vote.

Feel free to ask me or any of the other council members about anything in this post. We can all be reached on either the Mix and Mega discord or the Other Metagames discord's Mix and Mega channel which generally provides the best platform for discussion. Alternatively posts in this thread will also be taken into account. We'd also love to hear any thoughts about the post-Home meta, so feel free to post here even if it doesn't have anything to do with this post.
 

Nakeeb

formerly DubFreaknakeeb
With all of the votes counted, I can now post the results of the council votes of Melmetal and Terrakion.


Andyboy​
Chazm​
Gmansour20​
In The Hills​
Quantum Tesseract​
Stresh​
Melmetal​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Terrakion​
No Ban​
Ban​
No Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
No Ban​

To clarify these results, this means that Melmetal is now banned from holding stones in Mix and Mega. Tagging The Immortal to implement this.

Upon further discussion within the council during the voting stage, we have reached the conclusion that the outcome of the Terrakion vote may be largely dependent on how the metagame develops after Melmetal's ban. The 3-3 split vote you see here isn't enough to quickban Terrakion from the metagame, and these votes are also based on Terrakion's impact in the metagame prior to Melmetal's ban. Since Terrakion is already being considered a borderline bannable threat based on these votes, we would still like to vote on it soon, but we are unsure on whether these votes would even be the same a week from now in light of Melmetal's ban. With these circumstances in mind, the council will vote on Terrakion again during the coming week. In the event that the vote is still split at 3-3, we will proceed with a suspect test on Terrakion.

Another issue that has been raised with Mix and Mega as a whole is the current response to Shadow Tag. The MnM Open has seen some fringe usage of Gothita and Wobbuffet, which has had mixed results. As there is now some demonstration that Shadow Tag as a whole may be unhealthy for the metagame, the council will also be voting on a potential full Shadow Tag ban alongside our Terrakion vote. As a Shadow Tag ban would be based more on principle than metagame impact, we see no issue with running this vote alongside Terrakion's vote.

Feel free to ask me or any of the other council members about anything in this post. We can all be reached on either the Mix and Mega discord or the Other Metagames discord's Mix and Mega channel which generally provides the best platform for discussion. Alternatively posts in this thread will also be taken into account. We'd also love to hear any thoughts about the post-Home meta, so feel free to post here even if it doesn't have anything to do with this post.
Why couldn't we have done a suspect test on Melmetal? Instead of qb'ing it...
 
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Why couldn't we have done a suspect test on Melmetal?
Suspects and Bans are entirely at the council's discretion after all.

I'm honestly in agreement with it(for the most part). Melmetal was ridiculously strong and bulky at the same time, being near impossible to land OHKOs on while it often 2HKOed just about every possible switchin with either Double Iron Bash or one of its several coverage options. Stone choices allowed it to ignore potential checks, such as picking pinsirite to beat ground and fighting coverage, with the ability to choose not to mega evolve for things that predicted it to be holding pinsirite. Charizardite X(an uncommon, but viable choice) allowed it to not only to beat things that predicted the pinsirite set but also stop Fire types cold via sudden neutrality to fire. This doesn't count some of the other potential sets it could viably run(thus making it hard to predict what you should hit the blasted thing with), and the lack of recovery and slow speed were easy to compensate for via clerics that could patch it up with ease(a semi common set was running rest to fully heal and then partnered with a Heal Bell user to clear the status).

Overall Melmetal was super hard to not only predict reliably, but it also had unparalleled wallbreaking ability even against some of the meta's best defensive threats, and was even bulky enough to survive Lucarionite Terrakion's Close Combat (even if it was super effective)with almost any stone that granted even a small amount of bulk. It relied on clerics/wishpassers to keep it healthy but if it was supported it was near impossible to bring down without losing a potentially key pokemon just to hurt it enough to revenge.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Why couldn't we have done a suspect test on Melmetal? Instead of qb'ing it...
Melmetal was quickbanned for the same reason most tiers quickban things - it proved to be too powerful very soon after it dropped and immediate action needed to be taken. When the council votes a mon out of the meta unanimously the implication is huge; every member is fully aware of the risks that can come with "jumping the gun" on bans, yet they all still voted ban. This happened because every member was clearly convinced that Melm was broken, which is something I can say confidently because the council is constantly discussing the mons that they vote on. With something more borderline such as Terrakion for example, both ban and no ban voters end up presenting arguments to support their vote. In the case of votes that are conducted this soon after release, if any of the council members feel that a vote is being conducted too early, they'll raise their concerns about this and vote abstain or no ban accordingly. Melmetal got banned by such a large margin because the council members' experiences all demonstrated Melmetal being broken without a solid argument for why it would potentially be able to stay in the meta.

The main thing I would like to point out though is that running a Melmetal suspect wouldn't come free of drawbacks. Suspects take time, and aside from the usual issues that exist when it comes to impeding meta development, the competitive integrity of the MnM Open is also at stake. Even if a suspect was implemented immediately after the vote, the deadline for laddering would have to be at least two weeks away, and on top of that the voting phase would then roll over into the following week. This means that even with a very strong ban outcome, the remaining 3 rounds of the biggest individual tour of the year (which also counts for OM grand slam and circuit points) would be played with Melmetal. It's a bad look for both MnM and OMs as a whole if someone goes out of that tour due to a decision to avoid a quickban for no apparent reason, especially considering the fact that Melmetal's success is partially derived from the amount of flinches Double Iron Bash gets, which is the opposite of good tour play. While running a suspect may not be an inherently bad idea, in this situation it's clear to me that a quickban was the optimal course of action.

I hope this gives some insight into the inner workings of the council and the factors that went into this decision. I decided to stay away from the metagame-specific stuff in this post since I already provided an explanation on that front a couple posts up. I could go further into specifics but Smogon as a platform can be fairly limited when it comes to this type of discourse, so I will leave it here for now.
 
just gonna post some sets and thoughts about the current metagame

Kyurem @ Lucarionite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Draco Meteor/ Substitute
- Roost
I've seen people running physical kyurem with scizorite/ heracronite but i feel this set has more potential. With adaptability, this hits many mons way too hard. freeze dry allows u to check both gastrodon and pex(a chance of ohkoing banettite pex with sr up). One can opt for a sub roost set allowing u to set up on defensive mons but i feel myself clicking draco meteor more as its a nice option for nuking. Modest makes u speed tie with lucarionite mamo iirc so if u wanna creep, you'll have to switch to 136 spe jolly.
vs manectite mew 252+ SpA Adaptability Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 304-358 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs banettite pex 252+ SpA Adaptability Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 252-300 (82.8 - 98.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs Sablenite Mandibuzz 252+ SpA Adaptability Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 272-324 (64.1 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs Sablenite Corvi
252+ SpA Adaptability Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Corviknight: 146-172 (36.5 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
vs ampharosite clefable
252+ SpA Adaptability Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 332-392 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock




Clefable @ Ampharosite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Heal Bell / Toxic / Filler
I think clefable is one of the top stealth rock setters we have atm and this is due to rise of sablenite mandi builds which clefable can easily take advantage of. Apart from being a a check to hydreigon/reshiram/keldeo, it also acts as a secondary check to both zekrom and zeraora due to its great defensive typing. The last move can be anything tbh but i found both toxic and heal bell to have better utility.


I also wanna talk about diancite hydreigon and dragapult both i believe, can be decent mons in offensive builds as they can take pivot around their checks with u-turn while also can pressurize opposing lunala(which imo is one of the best mons to use rn). Apart from these two, manectite mew is also a great mon in the current metagame, being able to check most offensive mons reliably.
I dont have a strong opinion regarding terrakion, lucarionite is definitely its best set and can easily rip holes through teams. there is not much defensive counterplay against it , with mew being its best check. However , terrakion due to its typing and speed can easily be revenge killed with altarianite arcanine,zeraora or diancite mons which stops it from effectively working as a sweeper. Due to this, i'm not sure if we should quick ban it as i'd rather prefer a suspect test.
 
Kind of a mini-Zacian, I guess:

Cobalion @ Altarianite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Retaliate
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge / Close Combat
- Quick Attack

After Mega Evolving:
Base stats: 91/130/149/130/72/108
Typing: Steel/Fairy
Ability: Pixilate

Don't sleep on Cobalion, especially not on one that's part Fairy-type and has Pixilate-boosted Retaliate and Quick Attack at its disposal. Iron Head is also there for opposing Fairies and can 2HKO most Clefable sets (which are sitting ducks against it if they don't know Flamethrower or Fire Blast anyway). Stone Edge and Close Combat are additional attacking options against Fire and Steel mons respectively.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Another Sunday, another council vote, this isn't supposed to be a regular thing but here we are.



Andyboy​
Chazm​
Gmansour20​
In The Hills​
Quantum Tesseract​
Stresh​
Shadow Tag​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Ban​
Terrakion​
No Ban​
Abstain*​
No Ban​
No Ban*​
Ban​
No Ban​

*Chazm and In The Hills explicitly stated that they would like a suspect, although they would not quickban the mon.

Firstly, this means that we will be executing a full Shadow Tag ban. In hindsight, choosing to ban the most problematic users of the ability instead of the whole ability wasn't the best idea. Tagging The Immortal to implement this (and free Gothorita/Gothitelle since their bans were entirely based off the ability).

The 3-3 split vote you see here isn't enough to quickban Terrakion from the metagame, and these votes are also based on Terrakion's impact in the metagame prior to Melmetal's ban.
In the event that the vote is still split at 3-3, we will proceed with a suspect test on Terrakion.
As for Terrakion, we no longer have the 3-3 split vote to quickban that was mentioned above, but we do have a 3-3 split vote on whether to suspect Terrakion. At this time we are not planning to go forward with a Terrakion suspect, since we typically wouldn't push a suspect without a majority of the council being in favour of this course of action, however this is still open to change further down the line. For now we won't be extending the deadline of this vote any further than we already have. Apologies if this caused any confusion.


In other news, the council will be working on a VR update in the coming week to give at least a decent picture of the post-home metagame. Samples should follow soon afterwards.
 
Finished my open run and want to post some sets i used/thought of while preparing. Some are gimmicky while other can definitely be put to good use. Also gonna post some teams at the end of the post.


Mew @ Pinsirite/Altarianite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock/ Darkest Lariat
- Tailwind
- Explosion
- Close Combat/Filler
Suicide lead mew. Sets up tailwind/rocks and then clicks explosion hopefully getting a kill. Can be an excellent mon in offensive builds but also has its drawbacks mostly in the form of corviknight or lead sablenite users. this replay shows how the set works.


Zekrom @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Toxic
- Volt Switch/filler
- Roost
Offensive DD zekrom is not bad but defensive zekrom is decent too! Mold breaker toxic is always good and its ability to force both birds(corvi and mandi) out is great as well. Rocky helmet chips down u-turn users like mew/mandi/corvi etc and volt switch is to pivot around. Struggles against clef/excadrill which is a bummer but completely stops pinsirite users and to an extent lopunnite zeraora.


Dugtrio @ Lucarionite
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 188 HP / 144 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Screech
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock/ Protect / Substitute
- Sucker Punch

Duggy post home is terrible but i feel this set has some niche in trapping ampharosite clef/pex and even lucarionite terrakion. The evs are such that it guarantees live moonblast from amphy clef/scald from pex/payback from gyara pex and outspeeds both luc gar and terrakion. adapt eq ohkoes gar, has a 75% chance to ohko terrakion and guarantees ko both clef and pex after screech. my finals game vs multi shows this set in use.Pairs up well with slow u-turners or teleport clef/mew.



Hippowdon @ Sablenite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Body Press/ Filler
- Slack Off

Pretty sure this set has been used on ladder and also been used with alt/pinsirite hippo but this one is great as well. works well when paired up with heal bell support. Can set up against zekrom/zeraora/defensive lunala/mew/arcanine and mandi. Opposing clef and gyara pex should be eliminated first before setting up so that it can sweep effectively.

Team dump
finals g1 https://pokepast.es/c63fd3b5550d995d
g3 (if)finals https://pokepast.es/631ced73e6c1fe2b
webs https://pokepast.es/ceb8d438d2c15ea8
g3(if) semifinals https://pokepast.es/fea993fe7cd3f5b9
 
Been messing around with a Mimikyu set.
mimikyu.png

Mimikyu @ Lucarionite
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak

The idea is once your opponent's fairy or ghost checks have been weakened or KOed, you bring Mimikyu out and clean up. Disguise protects you for a free SD and then Lucarionite boosts your attack by a pretty decent amount (+2 Mimikyu @ Lucarionite has a power of 698 iirc with Adaptability boost).
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
We now have a batch of samples for the post-home metagame! Those can be found here.

This is just so we can have something out there as quickly as possible, so we may be adding more samples soon. As usual if you want your teams to be considered you can post them here or on the MnM Discord, or just PM them to me on either here or Discord.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I have a few quick announcements to make

Firstly, In The Hills is stepping down from the council. Thank you for all the work you've put into the metagame over the last couple years.

Secondly, MultiAmmiratore is joining the council. I'm sure his experience and prowess in the Gen 8 metagame will be very useful in helping the meta progress. Make sure to congratulate him if you see him around!

There is something else that we're in the process of working on and should be able to reveal very soon. I will edit it into this post once it is confirmed, so keep your eyes peeled for that in the next day or so.

EDIT: The council will be conducting a vote on whether to suspect Gengar shortly. While it has been in the meta since the beginning of Gen 8, the Home additions benefitted Gengar, leaving it with more common mons that it can take advantage of such as Lunala and Manectite Mew, as well as extra support in the form of pivots such as Zeraora. Gengar's fantastic neutral coverage with STABs alone leaves it with various options in the 4th slot which have been explored more recently, such as Energy Ball and Will-O-Wisp, allowing it to threaten or cripple some of its answers. However, the meta has seen some adaptation to Gengar's presence, one example of which would be Gyaradosite Toxapex's huge rise in usage. As usual I will release the council's votes once they have all been cast, and we will proceed with a suspect if a majority of the council vote for it.
 
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xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Triple post rip.


Andyboy​
Chazm​
Gmansour20​
MultiAmmiratore​
Quantum Tesseract​
Stresh​
Gengar suspect​
Yes​
Yes​
Yes​
No​
Yes​
Yes​

With a 5-1 vote to suspect, we will be proceeding with a suspect test on Gengar. The thread for Gengar's suspect test will be up as soon as possible.

EDIT: Gengar suspect is up
 
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POKEBOSSS

I COULD BE BANNED!
Guys, are you allowed to talk about gen 7 mnm too? If so, is dragon claw worth it on pinsirite dragonite or should I go eq, e speed and iron head?
 

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