MLB thread

[ButteredToast]

So the Injuns traded for Thome. It's speculation, but i think they realized there's no way they're catching up to the Tigers and felt this was the best way to troll them.

No. It's 100% a PR stunt in Cleveland. Don't look at the fact that we are under .500 fans! Look at the hero of the past, Jim Thome! Ohh. Aww. Razzle dazzle razzle dazzle razzle dazzle.

Any comments on this new Bill James' new stat temperature gauge or Vin Scully getting bribed with cookies?

 

[bwebber]

I guess it really comes down to 5 weeks of John MacDonald (who is the fucking man btw and will more than likely come back to us <3) and arguably the worst major league regular over the last two seasons for someone who is OPSing .700 in an off year at a premium position and is one year removed from a 5.9 WAR season.

The fact that Arizona's infield on a given night could potentially be

1B: Lyle Overbay
2B: Aaron Hill
SS: Jonny Mac
3B: Ryan Roberts

is probably the most fucking hilarious thing I have ever heard, as they all played on the jays together in '06 and '07, and the fact that this is actually a playoff bound team is laughable at best. Those are 4 really bad players and shouldn't even be in any sort of playoff conversation.

As for Kelly Johnson, I think the move from the NL West to AL East has proven to help offensive numbers, and I reasonably expect him to hover around .750 OPS to close the year. I can see AA bringing him back, and you never know, we could have the next yunel escobar on our hands!

Yeah. Kelly Johnson is a good player, certainly a lot better than Hill, but he's really nothing special and last year was by far his best. I dunno, I just have a hard time calling that a steal when it's not going to make or break either team and there's more Kelly Johnsons running around.

And no... Ryan Roberts is a good player. Probably not this good, but good. It really is a pathetic infield though. Goldschmidt should be the full time first baseman, and once we lost one of the few capable short stops in the league to injury, that position was doomed to be a black hole. I really wish we had acquired Clint Barmes at the deadline. He's not a star, and probably nothing more than a solid average player, but a hell of a lot better than Bloomquist and McDonald.

That's kind of an unfair assessment of a 22 year old who doesn't speak English well. Some players develop later than others, and hitting may very well come for him later. I'm not saying he's going to be the next Cano at 2B or anything, but if the Jays plan on looking for a temporary replacement through FA and a long term replacement in the minors, like I think will happen, he's going to be the guy.

Maybe, but when he was signed, there were concerns whether he would hit enough as a pro, and he's done nothing to prove people wrong. He's still got room for improvement, but sooner or later we've got to stop excusing him and he's got to perform. And perform he has not. He just hasn't hit at all.

Hechavarria is a classic bonus baby. People know him and expect things from him because of the money it took to employ him, not because he's actually any good.

No. It's 100% a PR stunt in Cleveland. Don't look at the fact that we are under .500 fans! Look at the hero of the past, Jim Thome! Ohh. Aww. Razzle dazzle razzle dazzle razzle dazzle.

Hardly. They're probably not going to win the Central being 6.5 games back, but crazier things have happened, and there's absolutely no harm in bringing him aboard to help. September baseball means a lot to the fans and, of course, attendance. It's similar to what the Pirates did at the deadline bringing aboard Derrek Lee and Ryan Ludwick. It doesn't do much to improve your chances at making the playoffs, but making additions at the expense of nothing sends a positive message to the fan base.

Of course, I have absolutely no idea why the Twins made this move. PsTBNL that are acquired on waiver deals never amount to anything, but potential supplemental round draftees do.

Did anyone see the guy in the Padres hat show up Justin Upton? Haha what a tool. Way to make a complete ass of himself.

 

[J-man]

Go figure... Thome passes the torch on to some other Twin scrub before he left, and now that guy will haunt the Tigers, forever embarrassing them to no end that they can't get a second rate, bottom-of-the-order OF out and avoid him putting serious numbers up on the board....

 

[Mr.E]

Did anyone see the guy in the Padres hat show up Justin Upton? Haha what a tool. Way to make a complete ass of himself.

I don't even think he was "showing up" Upton so much as pointing out "yo, I'm a Padres fan sorry I didn't get out of your way so you could try to get my guy out" since Upton looked pissed off and was probably verbally bitching too. Either way, I thought it was awesome.

 

[J-man]

EAT IT WHITE SOX!!! DOWN 8-1!!!! COMEBACK BABY!!!!!

 

[ButteredToast]

EAT IT WHITE SOX!!! DOWN 7-0!!!! COMEBACK BABY!!!!!

Someone is happy today...

 

[ButteredToast]

*Bump*

Anyone want to comment on the races going on? It seems like every single division is decided but the AL West. I think the Angles look good, but I think Texas is too far ahead. Also, the Red Sox and Yankees race is close for deciding the Wild Card/AL East winner.

 

[tennisace]

AL East doesn't matter at all really except that the winner gets home field until the WS. Winner plays Texas, loser plays Detroit. Neither is "desirable".

 

[ButteredToast]

Not really. No offense to J-man, but the Tigers are really no big threat to the Red Sox and Yankees. There offenses probably won't get shut down by Verlander and both teams have a great pitcher to combat him in the number one spot. Keep in mind that Verlander pitches in a real easy division with not much offense. I'm not taking anything away from Verlander, as he is by far the best pitcher in the American league, but he is human, and will probably give up some runs to the Sox and Yanks in the post season. Plus, after Verlander, they don't really have all that great of a number 2 and 3 guy. The Yankees don't either, but the Sox have another Ace in Lester waiting to pitch game two.
Texas also only has one good pitcher in CJ Wilson, but he is a lefty and as we all know, the Red Sox and Yankees are pretty heavily left handed. (And I swear to God that if Darnell ".137" McDonald gets a start in the postseason against a lefty, I'm going to tear my hair right out.) With that, I consider Verlander and Wilson comparable as #1 guys. I would also say that Texas has a stronger 2 and 3 starters. They can also score a boat load of runs and can hit with the Sox and Yanks any day of the week where Detroit cannot. Texas also has a superior overall bullpen, and were in the World Series last year, so they know what they are doing. And even on top of that, you get to play 3 games at home against Detroit where you only get 2 in Texas.
So, though neither team is "desirable", this is the playoffs and everyone in it is good. However, it seems clear cut that both the Red Sox and Yankees want to play the Tigers in the first round. I'm not trying to start any arguments with Tigers fans, but they are in my opinion the weakest of the strongest.

 

[J-man]

Not really. No offense to J-man, but the Tigers are really no big threat to the Red Sox and Yankees. There offenses probably won't get shut down by Verlander and both teams have a great pitcher to combat him in the number one spot. Keep in mind that Verlander pitches in a real easy division with not much offense. I'm not taking anything away from Verlander, as he is by far the best pitcher in the American league, but he is human, and will probably give up some runs to the Sox and Yanks in the post season. Plus, after Verlander, they don't really have all that great of a number 2 and 3 guy. The Yankees don't either, but the Sox have another Ace in Lester waiting to pitch game two.
Texas also only has one good pitcher in CJ Wilson, but he is a lefty and as we all know, the Red Sox and Yankees are pretty heavily left handed. (And I swear to God that if Darnell ".137" McDonald gets a start in the postseason against a lefty, I'm going to tear my hair right out.) With that, I consider Verlander and Wilson comparable as #1 guys. I would also say that Texas has a stronger 2 and 3 starters. They can also score a boat load of runs and can hit with the Sox and Yanks any day of the week where Detroit cannot. Texas also has a superior overall bullpen, and were in the World Series last year, so they know what they are doing. And even on top of that, you get to play 3 games at home against Detroit where you only get 2 in Texas.
So, though neither team is "desirable", this is the playoffs and everyone in it is good. However, it seems clear cut that both the Red Sox and Yankees want to play the Tigers in the first round. I'm not trying to start any arguments with Tigers fans, but they are in my opinion the weakest of the strongest.

Unfortunately, you don't know the kind of guy I am. I'd say the Yanks ought to FEAR playing the Tigers AWAY. Verlander? He's a lock for Cy Young and he has a great shot at the triple crown. You really think he's gonna crumble in the face of a good hitting team? He's a beast in CoPa, and CC couldn't even beat Brad Worth-a-Penny at CoPa. Advantage-Tigers. An Offense lead by two of the best hitters this year in the AL- Advantage Tigers again. Better pitching? Take a look at how many runs the Tigers put up against the Yanks this year. They FEASTED on yanks pitching this year. Scherzer is underestimated because of his numbers, but he's great at home and dominant when he's having a good night. You also seem to forget Fister, who knows how to shut down big powerhouse offenses. That's worse when you have a potent offense in the Tigers. What do the Yanks have? CC, but he's neutralized by Verlander. Ivan Nova? How's he gonna do in the postseason? Bartolo Colon? Don't make me laugh. The only team i fear in the postseason is the BoSox, but Verlander still gives the Advantage in a 5 game series.

Also, bolded part- I wanna say that's a pretty good joke.

 

[aamto]

i find it hilarious that Mike Napoli is the only reason the Rangers are beating out the Angels currently in the AL West -- Napoli's been worth 4.4 wins this season, while Jeff Mathis + Hank Conger have been worth -0.8 (on the "strength" of Mathis's -0.9 WAR. you have to be a really bad catcher to be "worth" that). not only did the Angels lose Napoli in that deal, they also gained Wells, who is, for some reason or another, getting playing time over Mike Trout.

Tony Reagins trade for Vernon Wells may very well be one of the worst trades in baseball history.

 

[Stallion]

Unfortunately, you don't know the kind of guy I am. I'd say the Yanks ought to FEAR playing the Tigers AWAY. Verlander? He's a lock for Cy Young and he has a great shot at the triple crown. You really think he's gonna crumble in the face of a good hitting team? He's a beast in CoPa, and CC couldn't even beat Brad Worth-a-Penny at CoPa. Advantage-Tigers. An Offense lead by two of the best hitters this year in the AL- Advantage Tigers again. Better pitching? Take a look at how many runs the Tigers put up against the Yanks this year. They FEASTED on yanks pitching this year. Scherzer is underestimated because of his numbers, but he's great at home and dominant when he's having a good night. You also seem to forget Fister, who knows how to shut down big powerhouse offenses. That's worse when you have a potent offense in the Tigers. What do the Yanks have? CC, but he's neutralized by Verlander. Ivan Nova? How's he gonna do in the postseason? Bartolo Colon? Don't make me laugh. The only team i fear in the postseason is the BoSox, but Verlander still gives the Advantage in a 5 game series.

Also, bolded part- I wanna say that's a pretty good joke.

I know what's a better joke. The fact that you don't fear my Rangers in a playoff series when Verlander aside we're stronger on paper in almost every way. Oh and I guess Jose "I have no fucking idea how I don't blow saves but I get the job done" Valverde. Games arent played on paper I know, and if Fister is legit in the playoffs (as well as hitters that aren't Cabrera/Martinez/Avila hit really well. Edit: forgot Peralta, nice offense) then they have every chance I guess. You are greatly underestimating Cj though (he's no Verlander but he's not far behind - he's very good) and our ridiculous offense at every position when healthy.

 

[J-man]

I will admit that i underestimated CJ (I thought we played him, i guess we didn't...). However, the Rangers have to make the Post Season first before i have to fear them.

 

[bwebber]

HOLY SHIT WHAT A FUCKING VICTORY, AHHH, THE DBACKS DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF A LOSS. COMEBACK WIN AFTER COMEBACK WIN... OH LAWD THIS TEAM IS MAGICAL!

 

[ButteredToast]

Unfortunately, you don't know the kind of guy I am. I'd say the Yanks ought to FEAR playing the Tigers AWAY. Verlander? He's a lock for Cy Young and he has a great shot at the triple crown. You really think he's gonna crumble in the face of a good hitting team? He's a beast in CoPa, and CC couldn't even beat Brad Worth-a-Penny at CoPa. Advantage-Tigers. An Offense lead by two of the best hitters this year in the AL- Advantage Tigers again. Better pitching? Take a look at how many runs the Tigers put up against the Yanks this year. They FEASTED on yanks pitching this year. Scherzer is underestimated because of his numbers, but he's great at home and dominant when he's having a good night. You also seem to forget Fister, who knows how to shut down big powerhouse offenses. That's worse when you have a potent offense in the Tigers. What do the Yanks have? CC, but he's neutralized by Verlander. Ivan Nova? How's he gonna do in the postseason? Bartolo Colon? Don't make me laugh. The only team i fear in the postseason is the BoSox, but Verlander still gives the Advantage in a 5 game series.

Also, bolded part- I wanna say that's a pretty good joke.

Let me start out with my "joke" first. All I'm saying is that since Wilson is a lefty, and the Yankees have a big problem with lefties, Wilson is going to be a good match up as a number one. If Verlander was a lefty, there would be no comparison. But he is not, so Wilson gains a slight advantage because of that. Against the Red Sox, who can handle lefties pretty well, Verlander is better. (This of course depends on Darnell ".109" McDonald's use in the postseason against lefties, because if DMc gets the start against one, the pitcher has a huge advantage over our offense...) Hopefully you understand what I'm saying. It's not that Verlander and CJ are comparable, just that because the Yankees have problems with left handers. That's all.
And if you think that Verlander is going to cruise through New York's offense, the Rangers offense, and the Red Sox offense, you have another thing coming, as these are the 3 best offenses in all of baseball by far. And they grind your starter out too, so he won't be going 8+ innings. If Verlander gives up 2 through 6, that's a remarkable outing. You just need to hope your Bridge to Valverde gives up nothing and that your offense can hit CC for 3+.
Secondly, the seemingly bipolar Scherzer and the laughable Doug Fister may be good facing the Indians, the White Sox, and the Royals, but they are going to implode against the other AL playoff teams. Thinking that Scherzer is going to out preform Jon Lester or a healthy Phil Hugues is a joke. And, with the offensive differences between the Tigers and the Red Sox/Yankees, they are going to have to do just that. Same thing with Fister verses Nova and a healthy Bedard or Buchholtz (who is rehabbing ahead of schedule and will probably make a start/ multiple bullpen appearances before the season ends.) I know Bedard is a "class A" joke, but if he is healthy, he can do far better than Fister can. Yet again, both Fister and Scherzer will be worn down like wood against sandpaper against the offenses and will be extremely lucky to go to 6 innings. Just saying.
The Rangers also suffer from not having a #2, but they have a offense that can compensate. When Fister has to hold the Yanks to 3 runs, a guy like Harrison only may have to hold them to 4 or 5. Huge advantage in games 2 and 3. And last time I checked, even if Verlander wins both of his starts, you do need one more.
So J-Man, clear the smoke from your biased eyes and acknowledge the truth. They Rangers have more to fear in the playoffs than the Tigers. And, with home field advantage in the ALDS and ALCS if you win your division, it's all that more obvious to take Detroit over Texas. Don't get me wrong, the Tigers are a great team, but I just don't think they have what it takes to get out of the first round. But hey, prove me wrong.

 

[J-man]

Let me start out with my "joke" first. All I'm saying is that since Wilson is a lefty, and the Yankees have a big problem with lefties

The Yankees also have problems against good pitching, like every team does.

Wilson is going to be a good match up as a number one. If Verlander was a lefty, there would be no comparison. But he is not, so Wilson gains a slight advantage because of that.

So does CJ Wilson also have an advantage against, say, Jared Weaver or Roy Halliday? Hmm?

Against the Red Sox, who can handle lefties pretty well, Verlander is better. (This of course depends on Darnell ".109" McDonald's use in the postseason against lefties, because if DMc gets the start against one, the pitcher has a huge advantage over our offense...) Hopefully you understand what I'm saying.

I don't know how to speak or understand dumb

It's not that Verlander and CJ are comparable, just that because the Yankees have problems with left handers. That's all.

A good pitcher knows how to shut down and offense no matter what side of the plate they stand at.

And if you think that Verlander is going to cruise through New York's offense, the Rangers offense, and the Red Sox offense, you have another thing coming, as these are the 3 best offenses in all of baseball by far.

OH NO, VERLANDER WILL NEVER BE ABLE SHUT DOWN THE BOSOX, NO NEVER oh wait... he kind of did this year... In all seriousness, Verlander held the Yanks to 3 runs twice (That wasn't even when he activated beast mode), the Rangers to 2 runs once, and the Bosox to three runs once and shut them out a second time. considering we'll most likely have homefield advantage, i like Verlander's odds thank you very much.

You just need to hope your Bridge to Valverde gives up nothing and that your offense can hit CC for 3+.

Benoit is doing quite fine, thank you very much. And Coke isn't that bad. Oh, have you ever heard of Al Alburqurque? Yeah, that guy pitches pretty well too.

Secondly, the seemingly bipolar Scherzer

Won't disagree, we call it the "good max, bad max" factor. Cool fact though, Good Max shut out the Yankees at CoPa. He also pitches well at CoPa too. hhmmmmm....

and the laughable Doug Fister

Thinking that Scherzer is going to out preform Jon Lester or a healthy Phil Hugues is a joke.

He's not as good as Lester, yes. Hughes is another story.

And, with the offensive differences between the Tigers and the Red Sox/Yankees, they are going to have to do just that.

What is this difference that you speak of?

Same thing with Fister verses Nova and a healthy Bedard or Buchholtz (who is rehabbing ahead of schedule and will probably make a start/ multiple bullpen appearances before the season ends.) I know Bedard is a "class A" joke, but if he is healthy, he can do far better than Fister can.

Keep counting your chickens...

Yet again, both Fister and Scherzer will be worn down like wood against sandpaper against the offenses and will be extremely lucky to go to 6 innings. Just saying.

I didn't know you could see into the future. Can you teach me how?

The Rangers also suffer from not having a #2, but they have a offense that can compensate.

Yeah. That offense really compensated last year in the WS... Oh wait, it didn't.

When Fister has to hold the Yanks to 3 runs,

Which he can do and has done.

Huge advantage in games 2 and 3. And last time I checked, even if Verlander wins both of his starts, you do need one more.

This is quite interesting. You throw aside statistics to call a good pitcher like fister "laughable" AND use statistics to bash Scherzer. So which is it? Are you gonna have your cake, or eat it?

So J-Man, clear the smoke from your biased eyes and acknowledge the truth.

Hello Mr. Pot, I do believe you are calling me black.

They Rangers have more to fear in the playoffs than the Tigers.

Rangers have to GET IN THE PLAYOFFS FIRST.

And, with home field advantage in the ALDS and ALCS if you win your division, it's all

*Takes a look at Detroit's remaining schedule and takes a look at the fact that Texas has to deal with LA* Who's getting home field advantage now?

Don't get me wrong, the Tigers are a great team, but I just don't think they have what it takes to get out of the first round. But hey, prove me wrong.

Yeah, they said that in '06 too...

 

[bwebber]

Can we please make it a rule that if you're going to act like a complete douche, at least say intelligent things to go along with it?

 

[ButteredToast]

So does CJ Wilson also have an advantage against, say, Jared Weaver or Roy Halliday? Hmm?

Against the Yankees, who have problems facing lefties, I would say Lester, Cliff Lee, and CJ Wilson have an advantage over Jared Weaver, Roy Halliday, and Verlander. An All Star leftie will usually (and shockingly) do well against a team that can't hit lefties.

A good pitcher knows how to shut down and offense no matter what side of the plate they stand at.

Really? I thought the MO of a good pitcher was doing badly against left handers/right handers. But, last time I checked, left handed hitters usually have more problems with left handed pitchers. That's the reason why they have left handed specialists, in case you didn't know...

OH NO, VERLANDER WILL NEVER BE ABLE SHUT DOWN THE BOSOX, NO NEVER oh wait... he kind of did this year... In all seriousness, Verlander held the Yanks to 3 runs twice (That wasn't even when he activated beast mode), the Rangers to 2 runs once, and the Bosox to three runs once and shut them out a second time.

Right, and Beckett did so much worse, holding you to 1 run and 2 runs... And wasn't he still hurt a bit then too? Huh...

Also, CJ Wilson has not given up more than 2 runs to either the Red Sox or the Yankees this whole year. Funny huh...

Benoit is doing quite fine, thank you very much. And Coke isn't that bad. Oh, have you ever heard of Al Alburqurque? Yeah, that guy pitches pretty well too.

Have you ever heard of this guy called Neftali Feliz? Mike Adams? Darren Oliver? Mike Gonzalez? Mark Lowe?

And Coke sucks worse than my guy Hideki Choke-ajima.

Won't disagree, we call it the "good max, bad max" factor. Cool fact though, Good Max shut out the Yankees at CoPa.

Great to see that you agree that he is outmatched here as a #3...

[Fister's] not as good as Lester, yes.

Thanks again bro.

What is this difference that you speak of? Keep counting your chickens... I didn't know you could see into the future.

Hmmm... The Red Sox, who have 4 of the best hitters in all of baseball in Ells, Lazer show, Papi, and Gonzolez and who score 5.36 runs a game in the EAST are close to your 4.74 in the central with KC and CLE with only 2 A+ batters...

Oh wait, it didn't. Which he can do and has done. This is quite interesting. You throw aside statistics to call a good pitcher like fister "laughable" AND use statistics to bash Scherzer. So which is it? Are you gonna have your cake, or eat it?

Wasn't it you who said Scherzer has problems and Fister was below Lester?
So, aren't you in a sense conceding my point?

Hello Mr. Pot, I do believe you are calling me black.

No, I'll calling you blinded by your passion for the Tigers.

Rangers have to GET IN THE PLAYOFFS FIRST. *Takes a look at Detroit's remaining schedule and takes a look at the fact that Texas has to deal with LA* Who's getting home field advantage now?

Angles are far better playoff team than the Rangers, but that is a battle for another day...

Yeah, they said that in '06 too...

I did say prove me wrong, did I not?

 

[J-man]

Ok, now you’re just insulting my intelligence.

Really? I thought the MO of a good pitcher was doing badly against left handers/right handers. But, last time I checked, left handed hitters usually have more problems with left handed pitchers. That's the reason why they have left handed specialists, in case you didn't know...

Lost in the sarcasm and pointless point about a special breed of relief pitchers is the admission to the fact a sure-fire top of the league pitcher can shut down an offense despite either lefty or righty heaviness, which nullifies this absurd assertion that CJ Wilson is a better pitcher because he’s a lefty and gets lefties out.

Right, and Beckett did so much worse, holding you to 1 run and 2 runs... And wasn't he still hurt a bit then too? Huh...

Also, CJ Wilson has not given up more than 2 runs to either the Red Sox or the Yankees this whole year. Funny huh...

Irrelevant point is irrelevant.
Strike One.

Have you ever heard of this guy called Neftali Feliz? Mike Adams? Darren Oliver? Mike Gonzalez? Mark Lowe?

And Coke sucks worse than my guy Hideki Choke-ajima.

Very irrelevant point is very much irrelevant.
Strike Two.

Great to see that you agree that he is outmatched here as a #3...

No, I agreed that Scherzer was bipolar. In fact, I soft-admitted that he is one of the best #2 starters when he’s on his game. Heck, HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST PITCHERS PERIOD AT THE START OF THE SEASON. The talent exists, and when he discovers how to bring his best every game, you won’t be saying squat about how bad (and really, he isn’t that bad) Scherzer is.

Thanks again bro.

Ok, if you’re gonna try a strawman at least make it less obvious than at how blatantly obvious this one is.

Hmmm... The Red Sox, who have 4 of the best hitters in all of baseball in Ells, Lazer show, Papi, and Gonzolez and who score 5.36 runs a game in the EAST are close to your 4.74 in the central with KC and CLE with only 2 A+ batters...

NO WAY, YOU’RE TELLING ME AN AL EAST TEAM IS SCORING A GAGILLION RUNS IN THE AL EAST?! GET OUT OF HERE!!!! I see your Ells, Lazer Show (Who?), Papi, and Gonzalez (spell it right at least, geeze) and raise you Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez, Alex Avila, Jhonny Peralta, Delmon Young, Wilson Betemit, Ryan Raburn (2nd half mode, of course), and Ramon Santiago (the one that exists now and not the sucky one earlier this year). Heck, even Brandon “Clutch” Inge is hitting better now! Yeah, I see no gap between the Detroit “in” Tigers and the Boston “Getting chased down by the Rays” Red Sox.

Wasn't it you who said Scherzer has problems and Fister was below Lester?
So, aren't you in a sense conceding my point?

No, it was you putting words in my mouth to create a non-existing argument.

No, I’m calling you blinded by your passion for the Tigers.

And I’m calling you a hypocrite who is blinded by his/her stupidity and anti-tiger pro whatever team you’re rooting for (guessing it’s the Rangers) bias. See, I can be blunt too!

Angles are far better playoff team than the Rangers, but that is a battle for another day...

Admitted and extremely pointless point is admittedly extremely pointless.

That’s three irrelevant points in one post, congratulations.
Strike Three, you’re out. Sit down, son.

 

[aamto]

are you both serious? the Angels are half the team Texas is. Weaver has a 3.61 xFIP, Ervin Santana has a 3.80 xFIP. so much for that vaunted top 3 (Dan Haren is really good though). and Scoiscia plays Jeff Mathis at C. any team that is playing both Jeff Mathis and Vernon Wells is not a playoff caliber team. LAA has a better staff than Texas...but Texas has a decent staff of their own (CJ Wilson/Ogando/Holland as a top 3 is not bad at all), plus a good (but under performing) bullpen, plus the third best offense in the AL.

the Angels are so bad and it's mindboggling how they have such a good record with such a shitty team. their SP have gotten so lucky and the team can't hit worth a damn. Texas is a far better team. just check the run differential -- Texas sits at +133, good for third in the league behind Boston and NYY (+145 and +205 respectively). the Angels? +32, good for 7th.

in fact, I would rank the AL teams as NYY > Tex > Det > (Boston or Tampa) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LAA

 

[Stallion]

^ where's my Facebook style ability to like things? Agreed 100 %, anyone who thinks the Angels are even in the same stratosphere as the Rangers needs to get their head checked. They are just incredibly lucky and have a decent rotation who is performing way over their heads.

Edit: J-man his points were directly addressing yours, how the fuck were they irrelevant? Unless you forgot some of the shit you were spewing in your post. Yes I agree that Verlander is the best, that's pretty much all you're getting from me though. I don't have the energy to address your entire post tbh.

 

[J-man]

Ok, you tell me Stallion. What does CJ Wilson's record have anything to do with Verlander handling a high powered offense? What does the Rangers's Bullpen have anything to do with the seeming lack of talent that the tigers lack to bridge to Valverde? What do the Angels have ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING he's arguing against me. You make it sound like I said everything he stated was irrelevant. Well, I'm here to say you're wrong.

 

[aamto]

Detroit is not as good a team as Texas. it's that simple.

Verlander aside, everything about Texas is better than Detroit: better offense, better bullpen (that Valverde hasn't blown a save with an awful 57/33 k/bb ratio is nothing short of incredible - 3.95 FIP, 4.28 xFIP says it all), better SP depth at #3.

 

[Stallion]

Alright lets do this. Keep in mind that the whole argument stemmed from the fact that I said that the Rangers, Verlander aside, are an all around better team then the Tigers.

What does CJ Wilson's record have anything to do with Verlander handling a high powered offense?

This question was being answered:

So does CJ Wilson also have an advantage against, say, Jared Weaver or Roy Halliday? Hmm?

Your point was that Verlander gives the Yankees and the Red Sox a lot to fear and ButteredToast was arguing that CJ Wilson in fact has an arguably greater advantage matchup wise against them based on this years stats.

Against the Yankees, who have problems facing lefties, I would say Lester, Cliff Lee, and CJ Wilson have an advantage over Jared Weaver, Roy Halliday, and Verlander. An All Star leftie will usually (and shockingly) do well against a team that can't hit lefties.

OH NO, VERLANDER WILL NEVER BE ABLE SHUT DOWN THE BOSOX, NO NEVER oh wait... he kind of did this year... In all seriousness, Verlander held the Yanks to 3 runs twice (That wasn't even when he activated beast mode), the Rangers to 2 runs once, and the Bosox to three runs once and shut them out a second time.

Right, and Beckett did so much worse, holding you to 1 run and 2 runs... And wasn't he still hurt a bit then too? Huh...

Also, CJ Wilson has not given up more than 2 runs to either the Red Sox or the Yankees this whole year. Funny huh...

Seeing as CJ Wilson was the topic of conversation and you ended up going back to "Yeah but it's not like Verlander struggles vs these teams", ButteredToast retorted with CJ Wilson's stats against said teams (the original topic of discussion). That is the logical progression when having a discussion on a certain point or topic. It is not

irrelevant point is irrelevant

. Grow up and learn to follow a logical progression, just because you don't like the answer to something doesn't make it irrelevant.

What does the Rangers's Bullpen have anything to do with the seeming lack of talent that the tigers lack to bridge to Valverde? What do the Angels have ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING he's arguing against me. You make it sound like I said everything he stated was irrelevant. Well, I'm here to say you're wrong.

Firstly, I alluded that Valverde was pretty much your bullpen which is what makes the Rangers overall better there then the Tigers. ButteredToast said it in more concrete terms and then you brought up Al Alburquerque and co.

Benoit is doing quite fine, thank you very much. And Coke isn't that bad. Oh, have you ever heard of Al Alburqurque? Yeah, that guy pitches pretty well too.

At this point it is a logical discussion. ButteredToast then goes on to retort to that point by mentioning the strength of the Rangers bullpen in comparison.

Have you ever heard of this guy called Neftali Feliz? Mike Adams? Darren Oliver? Mike Gonzalez? Mark Lowe?

And Coke sucks worse than my guy Hideki Choke-ajima.

Once again, it seems that you have the inability to actually remember what takes place in a discussion and retort with:

Very irrelevant point is very much irrelevant.
Strike Two.

Very short term memory is very short term.
Strike Two.

You make the following point:

Rangers have to GET IN THE PLAYOFFS FIRST. *Takes a look at Detroit's remaining schedule and takes a look at the fact that Texas has to deal with LA* Who's getting home field advantage now?

While I disagree with ButteredToast on this point adamantly (see aamto's post), he makes the following point in regards to the Rangers having to deal with LA:

Angles are far better playoff team than the Rangers, but that is a battle for another day...

You then once again forget the fact you even brought up the Angels in the first place and reply with:

Admitted and extremely pointless point is admittedly extremely pointless.

That’s three irrelevant points in one post, congratulations.
Strike Three, you’re out. Sit down, son.

Whether you agree or disagree with the posts and points people are making is one thing, but attacking their posts for being irrelevant and off topic because you don't like what they're saying is a totally different one. Looks like you're the one that needs to back to the dugout because:

(Yes I've just been watching How I Met Your Mother).

 

[bwebber]

I was 100% serious about that request by the way. And when I say 100% you know I'm not kidding around.