Moody

[Fluffy Otters]

No Ubers players (who are any good) will agree with you, because they all play Ubers knowing what its true purpose is-- to merely be a ban list for OU.

Ubers is not an actual tier that Smogon has any interest in balancing. It is merely a ban list that people play as if it were a tier, and we have tournaments for it.

Would that not make it it's own seperate tier than technically? I mean if you play tournaments for it, have a more than large enough move pool (of actual contending and apparently slightly more diversity than OU) pokemon able to be used in it, have its own seperate group of players, is entirely different from the other tiers, etc, would that not make it its own tier? If you twist the argument, UU technically isn't a tier either except a tier where things weak too weak to play (or just outclassed) are. Or that OU is a banlist for UU, the real tier and that everyone is playing an imaginary ban list. How would we define a tier then?

The environment is obviously different from UU and OU, Level Cup, NU (which really isn't a tier at all, I mean, who actually plays NU except as specific niches?). In all respects it is a game of it's own so to say it is not a real tier is...well, not accurate. A truer statement would be that "Smogon doesn't have interest in the Uber game and only concerns itself with OU and UU, but mainly OU." (Sounds so elitist, no? But it's true.)

The whole "Ubers is just a banlist" thing was really gone by Gen 3 when it suddenly had enough Pokemon to actually create a team and got Kyogre/Groudon/Rayquaza for weather.

 

[JSND]

to me, tbh gen 4 is actualy the gen where metagame began seeing how hard it is to find a database and the fact about previous gen not just ubers.

 

[Fluffy Otters]

to think that in ubers not incos that is really broken.
Its the sweeper himself specially or specifically
GR OU MOTHER FUCKING UBER DON seriously what in the hell can beat GR OU/UBER DON WITH boost ? practically nothing seeing even ditto WITHOUT CH can have a hard time. Ice shard ? meh he have 140 defense, why bother ? Aqua jet ? lol Extremespeed ? same lol 140 Defense. And you say you have used Groudon in OU and you lost ? you dont use him well. Okay a nit off topic. What i say is Groudon is so powerful as pass recipient with Bronzong/Mewtwo screens Mew + 2 passing alone with smeargle its even worse and it happen with every set upper in uber tier. This make (for me) that
the Ubers is the one that broken seeing in OU it wouldnt suceed as easily that the "great" sweeper is countered by unreleased ditto and not as insane as Groudon (justified by the fact that groudon is the most insane set up sweeper in the game)

Uber do have balance that are not made. Uber tier are a banlist but the metagame that created when those bans is un aplied happen within its own interestingly.
Something become useful or more favored with said bans when included or not, a fact that has shown in most games with banlist
(example for yugioh games the anti meta deck changes with the deck type that benefit more in the current banlist) but were not talking bout uber were talking bout incons.

SO in a whole, YES Smeargle IS THE most broken incos user. i dont know if were assuming priority and defenses but with pass, spore, sub, and gear change in his hand, hes the only incos user that i want to be banned

That may be true in some cases that it is the set up sweeper, not the supporter that is broken. But that's only if the set up sweeper is only good for the sweeper itself. If it only helps a few things,then while it makes it's hitter broken, it iself isn't too bad.

However in the case of Inconsistent Smeargle, he can Baton Pass to EVERYTHING. If you ban all the sweepers, you'd ban 99.99% of the game to non-existance. Let's be realistic here. Baton Passing Inconsistent (and other moves as well) is so broken it's not even funny. With Speed and Special Attack, pass to Dialga/Reshiram/Kyogre/Mewtwo/Arceus/Giratina-O. With Speed and Attack go Groudon/Rayquaza/Ho-Oh/Zekrom/Arceus/Dialga. With Defense boosts go Dialga/Groudon/Arceus/any set up sweeper. For OU, it is about equally as broken (if it passes evasion, Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail might MISS and then you're screwed). Maybe even more so (because almost everyone at least plays this).

Remove Ditto and the opponent is royally f-ed by Inconsistent Baton Pass and it's even easier in OU than Ubers (but obviously Smeargle and Inconsistent must be banned although it is my opinion both should be because Smeargle is the ultimate ridiculous set up passer and now has Shell Break in addition to Inconsistent).

 

[JSND]

well in OU your best choice realisticaly is only metagross if you want surefire win seriously. In ubers its better than OU in the fact that set up sweep is shorter in term of boost you need and they are more unstoppable like groudon while in OU only Metagross is really unstopable. also in ubers free turn(evasion) is more important than OU but well i need to mention that Uber have aura sphere which make it hard sometime. But really Gear Change (not shell break) Smeargle is very insane as fuck.
Basically having no erufuun and or hazer means game over, its the only incos user i complaints tbh. If its octillery etc i can tolerate. If smeargle ? 100 % sleep on its potential counter, baton pass, and gear change or shell break, and taunt say a lot really.

Need to experiment first huh ?

 

[Fluffy Otters]

well in OU your best choice realisticaly is only metagross if you want surefire win seriously. In ubers its better than OU in the fact that set up sweep is shorter in term of boost you need and they are more unstoppable like groudon while in OU only Metagross is really unstopable. also in ubers free turn(evasion) is more important than OU but well i need to mention that Uber have aura sphere which make it hard sometime. But really Gear Change (not shell break) Smeargle is very insane as fuck.
Basically having no erufuun and or hazer means game over, its the only incos user i complaints tbh. If its octillery etc i can tolerate. If smeargle ? 100 % sleep on its potential counter, baton pass, and gear change or shell break, and taunt say a lot really.

Need to experiment first huh ?

Lol, I forgot what Gear Change did since it's like on one Pokemon (who can't even use it to it's fullest extent because of bad movepool). Was it +2 Atk/+2 Spd or something?

No, the one that is pretty much guaranteed to win is DRAGONITE with Multi-Scale and if it gets defensive boosts and evasion as well, you're done for.

Yeah, Uber may have Aura Sphere but by that time, it'll have sub up or be passing to something else that doesn't take too much from it/is immune (Giratina-O is a pretty good option being immune to Earthquake/Aura Sphere/Extreme Speed and is a very heavy hitter that can easily go mixed and has it's own priority Shadow Sneak which can do damage when boosted and even not will always 2 hit ko Mewtwo)

 

[SupremeDirt]

Inconsistent sucks when you get _4_ accuracy falls in a row.
Or when the foe leads with Politoed and Perish Songs.

 

[TSPhoenix]

You could just stall more / switch out.

As for the uber argument. Does LC Ubers allow berry juice? I know Ubers isn't designed to be balanced, but if its best for the game Inconsistent could be banned in the same manner as Double Team aka totally banned across all tiers.

 

[Green Thunder]

Lol, I forgot what Gear Change did since it's like on one Pokemon (who can't even use it to it's fullest extent because of bad movepool). Was it +2 Atk/+2 Spd or something?

No, the one that is pretty much guaranteed to win is DRAGONITE with Multi-Scale and if it gets defensive boosts and evasion as well, you're done for.

Yeah, Uber may have Aura Sphere but by that time, it'll have sub up or be passing to something else that doesn't take too much from it/is immune (Giratina-O is a pretty good option being immune to Earthquake/Aura Sphere/Extreme Speed and is a very heavy hitter that can easily go mixed and has it's own priority Shadow Sneak which can do damage when boosted and even not will always 2 hit ko Mewtwo)

Gear change: +1 attack and +2 speed... If only it increased special attack...Gigigear might have a chance...

Anywayz, how would vuljina xo against inconsistance? She has the defences and whirlwind...does whirlwind work against subs?

 

[Fluffy Otters]

Gear change: +1 attack and +2 speed... If only it increased special attack...Gigigear might have a chance...

Anywayz, how would vuljina xo against inconsistance? She has the defences and whirlwind...does whirlwind work against subs?

Yes, but it can miss. With multiple evasive boosts, Roar/Whirlwind can miss A LOT.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Not to mention Ingrain Pass which is still the best tactic...

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Due to the debuffs being only -1, an easily reversible, with the ability, situation, White Herb may not even be needed. Unaware Pokémon will be more used because of this.

 

[XienZo]

Would that not make it it's own seperate tier than technically? I mean if you play tournaments for it, have a more than large enough move pool (of actual contending and apparently slightly more diversity than OU) pokemon able to be used in it, have its own seperate group of players, is entirely different from the other tiers, etc, would that not make it its own tier? If you twist the argument, UU technically isn't a tier either except a tier where things weak too weak to play (or just outclassed) are. Or that OU is a banlist for UU, the real tier and that everyone is playing an imaginary ban list. How would we define a tier then?

What? Ubers is a banlist for OU, BL is a banlist for UU. UU and OU are designed to be balanced, Ubers and BL is not. Basically, OU and UU are a "balanced" oriented tier, and Ubers and BL are just banlists used to keep the pokemon we banned to keep OU and UU balanced. Basically, Ubers and BL is the trash heap where we throw out stuff from OU and UU.

The whole "Ubers is just a banlist" thing was really gone by Gen 3 when it suddenly had enough Pokemon to actually create a team and got Kyogre/Groudon/Rayquaza for weather.

If it were a balanced oriented tier instead of a banlist, Kyogre would have been gone a LONG time ago....


Anyway, I want to bring up again that Shinpora can outstall any inconsistant user that doesn't Ice Beam on the switch in. And that once you do outstall it, you can sweep their whole team easily.

 

[JSND]

Okay i held back that smeargle isant as broken as i thought. Its really unbulky stupid me

 

[BurningMan]

Not to mention Ingrain Pass which is still the best tactic...

not really since you can't switch out when you used ingrain and if you don't get the right boosts asap the whole tactic is very likely to fail, if you get the right boosts however its even more threatening than before.

 

[Torchic]

Though it can raise the user's evasion, it can also reduce the user's accuracy.
Overall this ability is good, but it needs luck to help.

I used Inconsistent Glalie and it works well for me.

Glalie (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Inconsistent
EVs: 208 HP / 224 Atk / 4 SDef / 72 Spd
Hardy Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Ice Shard

If I get evasion boost or SpD boost, I have a chance to beat Shandera.

 

[Fluffy Otters]

What? Ubers is a banlist for OU, BL is a banlist for UU. UU and OU are designed to be balanced, Ubers and BL is not. Basically, OU and UU are a "balanced" oriented tier, and Ubers and BL are just banlists used to keep the pokemon we banned to keep OU and UU balanced. Basically, Ubers and BL is the trash heap where we throw out stuff from OU and UU.

If it were a balanced oriented tier instead of a banlist, Kyogre would have been gone a LONG time ago....


Anyway, I want to bring up again that Shinpora can outstall any inconsistant user that doesn't Ice Beam on the switch in. And that once you do outstall it, you can sweep their whole team easily.

Hehe, that's funny. OU designed to be balanced...with Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Deoxys, Manaphy, Infinite weather, Inconsistent, Overcentralization, Doryuzu, Latios, etc. There are some obvious things wrong with that picture (Inconsistent, Darkrai, Shaymin, Deoxys, Latios, Manaphy at the very least although Weather needs a severe looking at. The sad thing is that for the most part Ubers as a tier is more or less more balanced-ish than OU. And I do believe that enough people play it to be considered it's own tier despite what the official policy of being a banlist for OU says and it is distinct enough from OU and UU to be its own thing. Come on, it even has it's own tournaments and challenges and actually rewards creativity (well good creativity) a bit more than OU as well as having an expanded useable pokemon niche although of course many ubers will still centralize heavily (Kyogre/Groudon) which is just the nature of weather. Kyogre isn't the most broken uber by itself, it is what it does for its team as well as being an INSANELY powerful hitter by itself able to Calm Mind up, Specs, Scarf, Thunderwave. And Rain has a notorious number of abusers, far more than Sun/Sand/Hail.

For Shinpora, watch out for Glalie and Octillery Icebeam which will do massive damages, especially with a +2 SAtk boost. If they hit you with it, it is a 2 hit ko.

Anywayz, how would vuljina xo against inconsistance? She has the defences and whirlwind...does whirlwind work against subs?

Actually, that is honestly one of the better counters I have heard. Truly. Of course luck will always be picky but as some measure of defense it is probably one of the best ones. It has Taunt to stop Sub/Protect. Defog to clear evasion. Roost to recover health. Toxic to inflict damage. Knock Off to steal Leftovers (I don't know if items can be knocked off through sub). Immunity to bad weather while their Leftovers are negated. Whirlwind if they don't get evasion or it manages to hit despite it. Tailwind to support your own team (lasts 4 turns instead of three now. Think of what you could do with an auto agility for three turns).

 

[XienZo]

Hehe, that's funny. OU designed to be balanced...with Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Deoxys, Manaphy, Infinite weather, Inconsistent, Overcentralization, Doryuzu, Latios, etc. There are some obvious things wrong with that picture (Inconsistent, Darkrai, Shaymin, Deoxys, Latios, Manaphy at the very least although Weather needs a severe looking at.

That's kinda why suspect testing exists, y'know. You ARE aware of the whole reason we're letting all of those in, right?

And you're not actually saying OU isn't designed to be balanced, right?

 

[Fluffy Otters]

That's kinda why suspect testing exists, y'know. You ARE aware of the whole reason we're letting all of those in, right?

And you're not actually saying OU isn't designed to be balanced, right?

No, it's the fact that by now it is obvious most of those are in no way legitly balanced and hang on to OU by the barest thread. If it wasn't for Mach Punch, Darkrai would absolutely murder the whole tier except for weather sweepers and even then can still cripple someone with Dark Void. Sometimes it even carries Chople to further screw with Fighters and is debateably better than Life Orb for OU with it's bulk and ability to survive Mach Punches that aren't Brelooms even with min/min Life Orb. With Choice Scarf, he'll outrun pretty much every weather poke except Jolly Doruzu and can blast with Thunder/Dark Pulse spam and Trick it off when it no longer needs it.

I get the idea and am glad that FINALLY there is going to be a vote for the ranking players so at least something is going to be banned. I can predict that more likely than not, Inconsistent will feel the ban hammer (and if not, Pokemon's reputation is doomed) as well as probably Darkrai, Shaymin-S (king of Hax with Inconsistent), Deoxys (just because most people suck at using it doesn't mean it isn't broken when it's used by good players since it will utterly rip you apart), and maybe Manaphy and Latios. It is hard to say for those two. But if Manaphy would go, it will probably be pretty close but I think the infinite rain will tip the balance to the ban side with free entire health recover, the bulk it has with Calm Mind and/or at the least defenses invested, etc. Latios has Specs Meteor and is nearly impossible to take a hit from and isn't weak to the more widespread priority, Stealth Rock, has high speeds, and is only mildly (considering only 2 major Pokemon in general use it for the most part in OU) threatened by Pursuit.

 

[XienZo]

No, it's the fact that by now it is obvious most of those are in no way legitly balanced and hang on to OU by the barest thread. If it wasn't for Mach Punch, Darkrai would absolutely murder the whole tier except for weather sweepers and even then can still cripple someone with Dark Void. Sometimes it even carries Chople to further screw with Fighters and is debateably better than Life Orb for OU with it's bulk and ability to survive Mach Punches that aren't Brelooms even with min/min Life Orb. With Choice Scarf, he'll outrun pretty much every weather poke except Jolly Doruzu and can blast with Thunder/Dark Pulse spam and Trick it off when it no longer needs it.

Well, yeah, that's because we haven't had the suspect testing yet. Which is basically how OU is designed to be balanced. Meanwhile, there's no such suspect testing for Ubers, which reflects the fact that it's a banlist, not a balanced tier.

 

[Showsni]

I've been using Inconsistent with Shinboraa. Smeargle starts off, grabs as many boosts as possible with Sub/Protect, and Baton Passes to Flame Orb Shinboraa. Shinboraa Cosmic Powers if necessary, instant recovery with Roost, Psycho Shifts burns onto things, and absolutely destroys teams with Assist Power, which is often something like a base 540 STAB attack coming off of +4 Special Attack.

 

[M BLADE]

If u don't mind me asking, how does. Mushuarna wall and troll them?

Do you mind to get a late answer? lol

Anyway, i said CM Musharna trolls them. Synchronize means Toxic or Boil Over aren't the best choices, and CM means it can take boosted attacks... unless they decide to use physical attacks. For that, you need to use a set of Barrier/Calm Mind/Assist Power/Moonlight to win (this set is effective, believe me. Being WTF bulky while firing off from 100 to 380 BP boosted attacks= win).

If you don't use CM on Musharna, you fail, and it's indeed set up fodder.

 

[voodoo pimp]

This could be banned from Ubers, but not because of the power issue. Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has been banned from Ubers for being too powerful (to whoever mentioned Arceus, that was because of a coding issue with its EV limitations). But I'm pretty sure Evasion/OHKO clauses are still there, so Inconsistent might be banned for the same reason.

 

[Bynine]

But will the ubers metagame even be fun anymore now that inconsistent users are prowling about? This might ruin the whole ladder, because it'll all be up to luck.

 

[alphatron]

Nah. Evasion clause only applies to double team and minimize. Anything else that boosts evasion gets past the evasion clause. Things like bright powder and sand veil/snow cloak for example.

 

[breh]

out of sheer curiosity, how common is ss in ubers? cause I really hate using obama (hell I hate using hai lin general) just so glalie can make 8 subs instead of 3.