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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
- Thread starter darkie
- Start date
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Ahaha! I knew this would come up! It is true that Jolteon outclasses this, but not in every way. Let me explain.
Jolteon usually has "Four move syndrome" I.E., Specsjolt. Of course, this is so standard because it works very well. This means that the immediate switch-in to Jolteon is Blissey, however many underestimate Minun and they will switch in a set up sweeper or Scarved pokemon with a super-effective move.
Also, Minun has amazing coolness value :D
EDIT: And encore is pretty useless on the set
Electivire too
You're thinking electrode. Electivire is OU.
zapdos has 125 base special attack and 100 base speed, it doesn't need a scarf to sweep, and rotom has very good choice specs/scarf sets as well as subcharg beam, and electrivire is definitely OU
Don't think 'bout it. It's like Donphan + Dugtrio and currently in the same boat as Alakazam: It's at the border of OU and UU
Oh snap, I thought Donphan and Dugtrio were UU. O.o
And I just wanted to reply to your sig.
He doesn't get them 'cuz Pikachu OHKO's Heatran, Metagross and T-Tar with Brick Break and OHKO's Salamence with Thunderbolt >:|
Donphan and Dugtrio are both in the UU tier. Alakazam is not currently UU but may make it's way there. In July it was 50th and the border is I believe 51.
Have you seen the usage stats? Electivire is pretty high OU and has been for months now.
I posted this in my RMT awhile ago and wanted to bring it here for some more opinions:
Salamence (Honchkrow) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 108 Atk/112 Def/36 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch
Here's the MixMence of UU, relentlessly breaking down walls right off the bat to the point that the other team's defenses are trashed. The nature of this pokemon keeps entry hazards off the field from opposing lead pokemon, threatening with strong STAB attacks and amazing type coverage. It's a strange set at first glance, but it works very well for this team.
First off, OU brought down a very strong obstacle for Honchkrow: Donphan. Donphan can take Honchkrow's physical attacks all day, especially without Super Luck. Dark Pulse deals a solid 68% on average to the standard 252 HP / 0 SDef Donphan, meaning if it wants to set rocks when switching in it's going to die, and the rest of my team breathes a huge sigh of relief. If it wants to Ice Shard, the defensive investment keeps it from doing too much. Heat Wave is meant for Steelix and Registeel. These pokemon are fun to play with, who usually want to hit Honchkrow with their steel moves to dispose of it as quickly as possible. These pokemon are usually the Stealth Rockers of the team, meaning they probably won't get rocks as they are usually 2HKO'd by 2 Heat Waves or Heat Wave + Superpower (depending on how much Registeel takes from the first). With its special moves and threatening presence, Honchkrow does an excellent job at keeping away rocks and drilling the first hole in the opponent's defenses. Sucker Punch is always helpful and still strong off of 313 attack.
Rash and max special attack because this Krow is primarily a special attacker. The speed EVs are enough to outspeed Claydol, one of the faster walls. The attack EVs were for the 2HKO on standard Registeel with Heat Wave + Superpower. The remainder in defense has helped Honchkrow a ton in taking out Donphan, Steelix, and Registeel (takes about 34% from standard Registeel Iron Head).
Completely stopped by Milotic and other bulky waters, but I feel this set is more efficient at breaking the typical switches into Honchkrow, the physical walls who lack special defense, than the physical Life Orb set. This set was made especially for my team, but I think it can do really well on other teams who want a physical wall lure and stall breaking ability.
Salamence (Honchkrow) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 108 Atk/112 Def/36 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch
Here's the MixMence of UU, relentlessly breaking down walls right off the bat to the point that the other team's defenses are trashed. The nature of this pokemon keeps entry hazards off the field from opposing lead pokemon, threatening with strong STAB attacks and amazing type coverage. It's a strange set at first glance, but it works very well for this team.
First off, OU brought down a very strong obstacle for Honchkrow: Donphan. Donphan can take Honchkrow's physical attacks all day, especially without Super Luck. Dark Pulse deals a solid 68% on average to the standard 252 HP / 0 SDef Donphan, meaning if it wants to set rocks when switching in it's going to die, and the rest of my team breathes a huge sigh of relief. If it wants to Ice Shard, the defensive investment keeps it from doing too much. Heat Wave is meant for Steelix and Registeel. These pokemon are fun to play with, who usually want to hit Honchkrow with their steel moves to dispose of it as quickly as possible. These pokemon are usually the Stealth Rockers of the team, meaning they probably won't get rocks as they are usually 2HKO'd by 2 Heat Waves or Heat Wave + Superpower (depending on how much Registeel takes from the first). With its special moves and threatening presence, Honchkrow does an excellent job at keeping away rocks and drilling the first hole in the opponent's defenses. Sucker Punch is always helpful and still strong off of 313 attack.
Rash and max special attack because this Krow is primarily a special attacker. The speed EVs are enough to outspeed Claydol, one of the faster walls. The attack EVs were for the 2HKO on standard Registeel with Heat Wave + Superpower. The remainder in defense has helped Honchkrow a ton in taking out Donphan, Steelix, and Registeel (takes about 34% from standard Registeel Iron Head).
Completely stopped by Milotic and other bulky waters, but I feel this set is more efficient at breaking the typical switches into Honchkrow, the physical walls who lack special defense, than the physical Life Orb set. This set was made especially for my team, but I think it can do really well on other teams who want a physical wall lure and stall breaking ability.
Electivire will likely never fall out of OU before 5th gen.
Minum also gets access to Nasty Plot, Jolteon does not. Minum also has Encore, which someone mentioned before. What does that lead us to?
Minum@Leftovers
- Encore
- Nasty Plot/Agility
- Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt/Agility
EVs should be distributed to beat Jolly Lucario or something. Invest some SpAtk if you're using TBolt. Basically a gimmick trying to do something that Jolteon can't. Encore can be used to lock walls into recovery moves, or lock an unsuspecting set-up sweeper into a set-up move. Then you just use your move of choice, and go from there. Anyways, I periodically check this thread to see if there are any sets that I think look kinda cool, and I saw the discussion of Minum and decided to throw in my two cents.
Minum@Leftovers
- Encore
- Nasty Plot/Agility
- Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt/Agility
EVs should be distributed to beat Jolly Lucario or something. Invest some SpAtk if you're using TBolt. Basically a gimmick trying to do something that Jolteon can't. Encore can be used to lock walls into recovery moves, or lock an unsuspecting set-up sweeper into a set-up move. Then you just use your move of choice, and go from there. Anyways, I periodically check this thread to see if there are any sets that I think look kinda cool, and I saw the discussion of Minum and decided to throw in my two cents.
I posted this in my RMT awhile ago and wanted to bring it here for some more opinions:
Salamence (Honchkrow) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 108 Atk/112 Def/36 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave
- Superpower
- Sucker Punch
Here's the MixMence of UU, relentlessly breaking down walls right off the bat to the point that the other team's defenses are trashed. The nature of this pokemon keeps entry hazards off the field from opposing lead pokemon, threatening with strong STAB attacks and amazing type coverage. It's a strange set at first glance, but it works very well for this team.
First off, OU brought down a very strong obstacle for Honchkrow: Donphan. Donphan can take Honchkrow's physical attacks all day, especially without Super Luck. Dark Pulse deals a solid 68% on average to the standard 252 HP / 0 SDef Donphan, meaning if it wants to set rocks when switching in it's going to die, and the rest of my team breathes a huge sigh of relief. If it wants to Ice Shard, the defensive investment keeps it from doing too much. Heat Wave is meant for Steelix and Registeel. These pokemon are fun to play with, who usually want to hit Honchkrow with their steel moves to dispose of it as quickly as possible. These pokemon are usually the Stealth Rockers of the team, meaning they probably won't get rocks as they are usually 2HKO'd by 2 Heat Waves or Heat Wave + Superpower (depending on how much Registeel takes from the first). With its special moves and threatening presence, Honchkrow does an excellent job at keeping away rocks and drilling the first hole in the opponent's defenses. Sucker Punch is always helpful and still strong off of 313 attack.
Rash and max special attack because this Krow is primarily a special attacker. The speed EVs are enough to outspeed Claydol, one of the faster walls. The attack EVs were for the 2HKO on standard Registeel with Heat Wave + Superpower. The remainder in defense has helped Honchkrow a ton in taking out Donphan, Steelix, and Registeel (takes about 34% from standard Registeel Iron Head).
Completely stopped by Milotic and other bulky waters, but I feel this set is more efficient at breaking the typical switches into Honchkrow, the physical walls who lack special defense, than the physical Life Orb set. This set was made especially for my team, but I think it can do really well on other teams who want a physical wall lure and stall breaking ability.
From what I can see, this is basically the Choice Specs set from the analysis, albeit with LO and a different EV spread that makes up for the lack of power. It's nothing really new, outside of giving it the freedom to switch attacks and deal less damage at the usage of surviving.
Note, it is /EV spread thread. The EVs are designed specifically to handle a threat, and thus it is unique. A moveset isn't the only thing on a pokemon, in fact, it is a small part of it.
Here's a set for Gallade that I believe isn't on the analysis. I've been testing him out, and he works okay so I thought I'd post here for a shot / some advice.
Gallade @ Leftovers
Steadfast
Adamant (+Atk, -Sp Atk) / Impish (+Def, -Sp Atk)
252 HP / 200 Atk / 58 Def
~ Bulk Up
~ Drain Punch
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Ice Punch / Psycho Cut / Stone Edge
This set's purpose to setup Gallade to be a long-term sweeper. Gallade's base 65 Defense stat isn't anything desired, so Gallade relies on Bulk Up to further his time on the field whilst boosting his Attack stat. Drain Punch and Leftovers prove as his man purpose of dealing damage and recovery. Gallade is not exactly lightning fast, so he can utilize a priority of Shadow Sneak, which also doubles as perfect neutral coverage. Shadow Sneak also scares Psychic-types away. Ice Punch hits Dragon and Flying-types, but Psycho Cut gives him a stronger STAB, not to mention the higher chance of a critical hit. Stone Edge, while risky, hits Gyarados for good measure. Another viable option is one of Gallade's 3 status-inducing moves: Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, and Will-o-wisp.
Bulking Gallade gives him longevity, while boosting his already monstrous Attack stat to higher levels. This set is most dangerous when Light Screen and Reflect are setup, as Gallade doesn't have too much to worry on the Special side, but his Defense is weaker. An even better help is Memento. A -2 in both Attack stats either forces a switch or weakens assaults on Gallade.
An Adamant nature lets Gallade hit for damage, which means Drain Punch heals more. Oppositely Impish helps raise his Defenses until he is properly setup. Maxing his HP is crucial, while retaining a good amount of EVs invested in Attack and Defense.
Once he's prepared nothing can come in with much ease. Drain Punch and Shadow Sneak provide perfect neutral coverage, importantly hitting the likes of Slowbro, Gengar, and Cresselia. But, Gyarados can withstand Gallade's assaults but fears Stone Edge, while Weezing comes in perfectly bar Psycho Cut. The likes of Salamence and Gliscor also do well walling Gallade, but can be KOed by Ice Punch. Heracross fears Psycho Cut but can come in on relative ease, while Tyranitar scares Gallade off, as nobody likes residual Sandstorm damage.
-Terywj
Gallade @ Leftovers
Steadfast
Adamant (+Atk, -Sp Atk) / Impish (+Def, -Sp Atk)
252 HP / 200 Atk / 58 Def
~ Bulk Up
~ Drain Punch
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Ice Punch / Psycho Cut / Stone Edge
This set's purpose to setup Gallade to be a long-term sweeper. Gallade's base 65 Defense stat isn't anything desired, so Gallade relies on Bulk Up to further his time on the field whilst boosting his Attack stat. Drain Punch and Leftovers prove as his man purpose of dealing damage and recovery. Gallade is not exactly lightning fast, so he can utilize a priority of Shadow Sneak, which also doubles as perfect neutral coverage. Shadow Sneak also scares Psychic-types away. Ice Punch hits Dragon and Flying-types, but Psycho Cut gives him a stronger STAB, not to mention the higher chance of a critical hit. Stone Edge, while risky, hits Gyarados for good measure. Another viable option is one of Gallade's 3 status-inducing moves: Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, and Will-o-wisp.
Bulking Gallade gives him longevity, while boosting his already monstrous Attack stat to higher levels. This set is most dangerous when Light Screen and Reflect are setup, as Gallade doesn't have too much to worry on the Special side, but his Defense is weaker. An even better help is Memento. A -2 in both Attack stats either forces a switch or weakens assaults on Gallade.
An Adamant nature lets Gallade hit for damage, which means Drain Punch heals more. Oppositely Impish helps raise his Defenses until he is properly setup. Maxing his HP is crucial, while retaining a good amount of EVs invested in Attack and Defense.
Once he's prepared nothing can come in with much ease. Drain Punch and Shadow Sneak provide perfect neutral coverage, importantly hitting the likes of Slowbro, Gengar, and Cresselia. But, Gyarados can withstand Gallade's assaults but fears Stone Edge, while Weezing comes in perfectly bar Psycho Cut. The likes of Salamence and Gliscor also do well walling Gallade, but can be KOed by Ice Punch. Heracross fears Psycho Cut but can come in on relative ease, while Tyranitar scares Gallade off, as nobody likes residual Sandstorm damage.
-Terywj
Here's a set for Gallade that I believe isn't on the analysis. I've been testing him out, and he works okay so I thought I'd post here for a shot / some advice.
Gallade @ Leftovers
Steadfast
Adamant (+Atk, -Sp Atk) / Impish (+Def, -Sp Atk)
252 HP / 200 Atk / 58 Def
~ Bulk Up
~ Drain Punch
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Ice Punch / Psycho Cut / Stone Edge
This set's purpose to setup Gallade to be a long-term sweeper. Gallade's base 65 Defense stat isn't anything desired, so Gallade relies on Bulk Up to further his time on the field whilst boosting his Attack stat. Drain Punch and Leftovers prove as his man purpose of dealing damage and recovery. Gallade is not exactly lightning fast, so he can utilize a priority of Shadow Sneak, which also doubles as perfect neutral coverage. Shadow Sneak also scares Psychic-types away. Ice Punch hits Dragon and Flying-types, but Psycho Cut gives him a stronger STAB, not to mention the higher chance of a critical hit. Stone Edge, while risky, hits Gyarados for good measure. Another viable option is one of Gallade's 3 status-inducing moves: Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, and Will-o-wisp.
Bulking Gallade gives him longevity, while boosting his already monstrous Attack stat to higher levels. This set is most dangerous when Light Screen and Reflect are setup, as Gallade doesn't have too much to worry on the Special side, but his Defense is weaker. An even better help is Memento. A -2 in both Attack stats either forces a switch or weakens assaults on Gallade.
An Adamant nature lets Gallade hit for damage, which means Drain Punch heals more. Oppositely Impish helps raise his Defenses until he is properly setup. Maxing his HP is crucial, while retaining a good amount of EVs invested in Attack and Defense.
Once he's prepared nothing can come in with much ease. Drain Punch and Shadow Sneak provide perfect neutral coverage, importantly hitting the likes of Slowbro, Gengar, and Cresselia. But, Gyarados can withstand Gallade's assaults but fears Stone Edge, while Weezing comes in perfectly bar Psycho Cut. The likes of Salamence and Gliscor also do well walling Gallade, but can be KOed by Ice Punch. Heracross fears Psycho Cut but can come in on relative ease, while Tyranitar scares Gallade off, as nobody likes residual Sandstorm damage.
-Terywj
I think that this is a very useful moveset for Gallade. Bulk Up + Shadow Sneak is a great combination, not to mention unpredictable. I would go for an Adamant Nature. With Shadow Sneaks priority, you don't really need the extra + defence Nature. Also I would go with Ice Punch, since it gives great Flying-type and Dragon coverage, which can be a threat to Gallade
Drain Punch has so little PP I don't think it's worth a slot. Try using Brick Break.
As with most other set-ups, Gallade suffers tremendously from status and Taunt (i.e. Gyarados as you have noted). While it sounds like a good set in theory, due to its awesome priority, it's more efficient to set up and sweep with Lucario or Infernape late-game because no opponent is stupid enough to stand idly and let you set-up.
Bulk Up is sort of synonymous with Curse and for all intents and purposes, Snorlax does that better due to Thick Fat and better special defenses though Gallade can force some switches. It's still best to stick with SD or CB if you want to take advantage of Shadow Sneak's unique niche.
As with most other set-ups, Gallade suffers tremendously from status and Taunt (i.e. Gyarados as you have noted). While it sounds like a good set in theory, due to its awesome priority, it's more efficient to set up and sweep with Lucario or Infernape late-game because no opponent is stupid enough to stand idly and let you set-up.
Bulk Up is sort of synonymous with Curse and for all intents and purposes, Snorlax does that better due to Thick Fat and better special defenses though Gallade can force some switches. It's still best to stick with SD or CB if you want to take advantage of Shadow Sneak's unique niche.
I've seen this set with Hypnosis in the fourth slot to help Gallade set up, although with Gallade's slow speed and Hypnosis's shaky accurary, it's probably not the best choice. Still, it's an option.
I'm surprised there isn't an all out offensive Jolteon in the analysis.
Jolteon @ Life Orb
Volt Absorb
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting/HP Ice
-Baton Pass/Charge Beam
Demolish offensive teams with this thing; it outspeeds and 2hkos so much stuff its not even funny. LO Thunderbolt obviously hurts like a mofo (1hkos Naive Salamence after SR), Shadow Ball is to hurt Rotom/Latias who annoy Jolteon a lot, and HP Fighting for Magnezone and Tyranitar, and rounds out everything in terms of coverage. HP Grass is a possible choice if you really freaking hate Swampert, or Ice if you want to guess Flygon switching to you/KO Dragonite and kill Gliscor but HP Fighting is probably the best overall choice, as Tyranitar is a pretty big bitch in terms of its ability to soak up special attacks. Ground is a chocie if you want to hurt other electrics harder (but shadow ball 2hkos opposing jolteon after SR). primary problem with HP Fight is that you lose a speed EV (it can suck).
I prefer Baton Pass in the last slot; it makes you not completely useless against stall (because until Blissey is dead, it is, and even after she is dead, Jolteon still can't KO too much stuff) by allowing you to switch to counters and stuff seamlessly, allows scouting, bluffs Choice Specs, escape Pursuits, etc. Charge Beam can however, make Jolteon a complete monster, letting you 1hko so many things, like Scizor for example.
Jolteon @ Life Orb
Volt Absorb
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting/HP Ice
-Baton Pass/Charge Beam
Demolish offensive teams with this thing; it outspeeds and 2hkos so much stuff its not even funny. LO Thunderbolt obviously hurts like a mofo (1hkos Naive Salamence after SR), Shadow Ball is to hurt Rotom/Latias who annoy Jolteon a lot, and HP Fighting for Magnezone and Tyranitar, and rounds out everything in terms of coverage. HP Grass is a possible choice if you really freaking hate Swampert, or Ice if you want to guess Flygon switching to you/KO Dragonite and kill Gliscor but HP Fighting is probably the best overall choice, as Tyranitar is a pretty big bitch in terms of its ability to soak up special attacks. Ground is a chocie if you want to hurt other electrics harder (but shadow ball 2hkos opposing jolteon after SR). primary problem with HP Fight is that you lose a speed EV (it can suck).
I prefer Baton Pass in the last slot; it makes you not completely useless against stall (because until Blissey is dead, it is, and even after she is dead, Jolteon still can't KO too much stuff) by allowing you to switch to counters and stuff seamlessly, allows scouting, bluffs Choice Specs, escape Pursuits, etc. Charge Beam can however, make Jolteon a complete monster, letting you 1hko so many things, like Scizor for example.
Firstly, there's absolutely nothing original with that set. Secondly, the analysis states:
^^^
75% chance to KO -SpD Salamence after SR begs to differ. 2HKOing heavy SpD Tar is cool. 1hkoing Infernape; very nice. 2hking opposing Jolteon with Shadow Ball? Awesome, Plenty more I bet. It isn't always about immediate KOs anyway; LO gives Jolteon the kick to clean out a team. Once everything has taken around 30%, Jolteon can just wipe the floor because it can do so much damage to so many pokemon. And unlike Specs which is notorious for smashing offensive teams...it can switch attacks.
It may not be original, but it is something that should be there. I don't care what the analysis says about Life orb, the analysis is always missing sets that you need to add to. Don't treat the analysis like a Bible; it isn't. Who actually went out and calculated what "significant KOs" there were? Significant KOs never take into account the cleaning factor, the late game sweeping. I don't know when the last time that analysis was even updated either. But I've used this thing extensively, and it is pretty disgusting how good it is against a frail, offensive team and how well it can clean shit up.
75% chance to KO -SpD Salamence after SR begs to differ. 2HKOing heavy SpD Tar is cool. 1hkoing Infernape; very nice. 2hking opposing Jolteon with Shadow Ball? Awesome, Plenty more I bet. It isn't always about immediate KOs anyway; LO gives Jolteon the kick to clean out a team. Once everything has taken around 30%, Jolteon can just wipe the floor because it can do so much damage to so many pokemon. And unlike Specs which is notorious for smashing offensive teams...it can switch attacks.
It may not be original, but it is something that should be there. I don't care what the analysis says about Life orb, the analysis is always missing sets that you need to add to. Don't treat the analysis like a Bible; it isn't. Who actually went out and calculated what "significant KOs" there were? Significant KOs never take into account the cleaning factor, the late game sweeping. I don't know when the last time that analysis was even updated either. But I've used this thing extensively, and it is pretty disgusting how good it is against a frail, offensive team and how well it can clean shit up.
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