np: Latios - "unban me"

[haunter]

I guess it isn't a big deal, but really the only pokemon I am really worried with this set is Scizor/Gross/Magnezone
And HP Fire ruins them ^_^
Surf is strong, but I just prefer the utility of HP Fire. I believe Pulse/Meteor/Bolt provide enough normal 2HKO or a OHKO for the build.
So I went back through this thread, and I created a new Latios, and it has been working even better.
Mixed Latios (Life Orb) Timid

Outrage
Surf/HP Fire/Dragon Pulse/Thunderbolt
Roost
Earthquake

I don't see the point of using a timid nature on a physical oriented latios. You should use hasty to give your phisical attacks more power.
Also, I don't see many uses of roost, when you lock yourself into outrage you're going to be revenge killed by steels anyway, so you could use that slot for Hp fire\ draco meteor.

 

[Chill]

Not necessarily. Just don't lead with outrage. If you use Surf or HP fire you can get rid of the steels and recover/roost may still be of use. Unless your opponent is running a lot of steels, and they may very well be, recover will be good for healing off LO and entry hazard damage. And even if your opponent is using a lot of steels you can nail them with HP fire/Surf everytime they think of switching in.

Naive would probably be better than hasty as well. Seeing as Latios resist a number of special attacks.

 

[diamondfan1910]

Just ran a calc. Mixed Kingdra's Life Orbed Hydro Pump from 317 Special Attack in the rain outdamages Modest 394 SpA Life Orb Latios' Draco Meteor by about 3% on generic 404 HP/236 SpD physical tanks. Wow.

 

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by diamondfan1910
Mixdra is, IMO, the most potentially dangerous sweeper. With a slightly re-thought EV spread favouring Special Attack and a little more speed for the new Scarfers, he can OHKO almost everything significant with Draco Meteor/Hydro Pump and can run Stall down single-handedly. I'm not kidding, he's a beast. Without the huge Attack investment the rain boost still lends Waterfall a nice 2HKO on Blissey, and I still invest a lot of EVs into Attack. More Special Attack is important for slamming Celebi and Vaporeon hard with Draco Meteor for a 2HKO usually, so Kingdra can come back in later to wreak havoc without his counters. Surf could be used but it has less power than even the original spread's Hydro Pump.

Mixdra is the best Kingdra set and probably the best pure wallbreaker in the game. It literally thrashes EVERYTHING. Vaporeon is pretty much the only thing that stands a chance.

Originally Posted by diamondfan1910
Just ran a calc. Mixed Kingdra's Life Orbed Hydro Pump from 317 Special Attack in the rain outdamages Modest 394 SpA Life Orb Latios' Draco Meteor by about 3% on generic 404 HP/236 SpD physical tanks. Wow.

Not suprised. Mixdra is one of the few things that can outright OHKO Metagross w/o a super effective attack... hell, it might be the only thing.

Anyway, I haven't gotten around to trying a Rain Dance team on suspect but I guess it would work pretty well with all the Dragon / Dragon / Dragon and crap running around. Rain teams beat stall also with Swords Dance Qwilfish.

 

[Kay [Old]]

Actually went and tried out Rain on the Suspect, and it works stupendously well (though I'll admit that I've never used it before). Ludicolo is absolutely vicious if you can take out their Blissey, which has really been the toughest part.

 

[Tyson™]

I've seen the Dragon Dance set floating around and actually does knock out at least one of my Pokemon. The suprise element is pretty cool, but then I usually send back in CB Mamoswine and revenge it.

I think now with the metagame revolving around Dragons and Steels, Mamoswine will get it's position as a true threat in DPP back.

 

[paramylodon]

I've been playing a lot of rain on suspect.
It was rain teams, and not latios, that actually prompted me to build a new team for the suspect ladder rather then simply using my ou team.

However, I've not actually tried out latios yet. I'll be sure to do this before I try a rain team, although rain will come next (or I could try and fit latios on the rain team, depending on how it turns out, but I haven't actually put any thoughts into it yet).

I'm rather low on the suspect leader board; I really need to devote a little more towards trying and getting ranked higher. My win rate is lower by quite a surprising degree on suspect then standard when using the same team.

 

[deadguydrew]

So far the numbers I posted haven't changed too much (I haven't really had time to battle as much today) but most people are tending toward the Timid@Life Orb special attackers, which I really think is the weakest set out of all the different sets I've run into. It may have utility, but it gets wrecked fairly easily.

By what I've seen the Dragon Dance Mixed sets have been the strongest, though I've been stomped by a CMed up Latios as well. Something I saw was someone running a CM Latios, but it was physically geared. It'll Calm Mind predicting the switch into something like Blissey and then smash with a Outrage.

The numbers as I have them today are: 25 Latios in all, 18 Special, 6 Mixed, and 1 other. So far not a whole lot of variation, but I'm going to play a few more rounds.

I haven't decided whether or not I think Latios should be uber or ou, but what I have seen is a lot of teams built around just stopping Latios...

 

[diamondfan1910]

Mixdra is just amazing. It wins me 9/10 of my battles now. I've actually swept with -2 Special Attack, it's so powerful.

RaikouLover, even Vaporeon doesn't stand much of a chance. It takes 60% minimum from Draco Meteor, a 2HKO with SR. Even with Protect stalling it should 2HKO and it can't do shit back. Empoleon is probably better because it can Life Orb stall more effectively and resists Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor. Although I guess after Vaporeon dies Kingdra can only use the weaker Waterfall effectively.

My current spread has 271 Attack; should I run more?

EDIT: Rain teams are getting more common but none of them pack the Speed that I do on their Kingdras, which means he's a great weapon against Rain teams.

 

[Philip7086]

So.. can someone tell me why the suspect ladder does not allow Latias? From what I understand, if Latios gets voted OU, it will be injected into the metagame that Latias currently is in as well, won't it? What is the point in testing Latios in a metagame that does not exist?

I'm sure it has been asked in this topic somewhere, but I don't really have the time to read through the whole thing. Just a quick and simple response would be greatly appreciated.

 

[lilyhollow]

"That's what stage 3 is for."

 

[Philip7086]

So basically, not only is the suspect ladder a test ladder, but so is the standard ladder, because that's just where all the suspects who passed the test sit and wait until all the suspects have finished so they can all be tested at the same time?

If that's the case, then what happens if one by one, each suspect passes the suspect-free standard metagame, then by the time all the suspects are brought down, we decide that the OU metagame is too broken with all of the suspects in it? How do we then decide which ones were the breaking factor?

 

[Goodbar]

Specs Latios is a pretty potent force I've seen, Draco Meteor does 50% to almost everything but steels with good spdef investment, and even after 1 meteor it can scare things off - I ohkoed a scarf rotom after SR at -2. Latios' only downfall to me seems to be pursuit revenge kills after a meteor. It's decent spdef allows it to take bullet punches ok and even mamos ice shard fails to KO unless equipped with a band and SR are out. However I've mostly seen Timid LO Latios' for the most part, often carrying psycho shift which can be a pain. Not sure what my judgement of this dragon is quite yet though. And yea I see magnezones quite a bit, and the occasional empoleon, and most teams carry two steels.

 

[Jumpman16]

So basically, not only is the suspect ladder a test ladder, but so is the standard ladder, because that's just where all the suspects who passed the test sit and wait until all the suspects have finished so they can all be tested at the same time?

If that's the case, then what happens if one by one, each suspect passes the suspect-free standard metagame, then by the time all the suspects are brought down, we decide that the OU metagame is too broken with all of the suspects in it? How do we then decide which ones were the breaking factor?

we'll decide with the best knowledge we can gain regarding which by themselves are ou and uber, something that is straight up impossible if you just throw all suspects together into standard play at once and expect to be able to pinpoint anything faster than we will have with this method

 

[diamondfan1910]

Psycho Shift's good because I keep getting randomly burned by Fire Blasts. Then I pass the burns over to Scizors that switch in. Sometimes what seems like hax can work in your favour!

 

[MetaNite]

I've only used Mixed Latios, and it did just fine. However now I'm using Dragonite more and more, with all the Dragons and Steels running around it is a beast.

SubLiechiNite is a huge surprise, and Latios doesn't stand a chance. Another thing I'm noticing is a lot of Heracross weaknesses. ScarfCross can usually OHKO everything on my opponents team, the only thing stopping it is indeed the locked into one attack thing. Typical teams seem to contain 2 dragons, Magnezone, Scizor, a suicide lead, and some random Pokemon, either a sweeper like Infernape or Blissey.

Overall, Latios is no big threat at all.

 

[Syberia]

Overall, Latios is no big threat at all.

That's largely because, as you've said, OU teams are so predictable these days. You know what's going to be on them before you face them, and that is largely because they're trying to counter Latios.

 

[diinbong]

I find it interesting that a Modest, 252 Specs Draco Meteor from Latios + a Jolly, 252 Choice Band Earthquake from Dugtrio + Stealth Rocks will always KO Blissey. This is the premise for my team, along with the fact that Dugtrio also takes out Magnezone and other assorted Steels.

 

[cim]

we'll decide with the best knowledge we can gain regarding which by themselves are ou and uber, something that is straight up impossible if you just throw all suspects together into standard play at once and expect to be able to pinpoint anything faster than we will have with this method

I know I'm being Chris is me right now, but I haven't found any posts anywhere explaining why it would be "impossible" to find what breaks a metagame. I would appreciate it if you explained this to me, because I and a number of other people don't understand this.

 

[Bad Ass]

Is this test 14 days, or 30?

 

[reyscarface]

Things i found out:

Metagross is an awesome Latios counter, Surf wont KO even with specs, Neither Draco Meteor, Or HP Fire (Something Scizor haaaates). AgilityGross seems to work very very good against Latios.

Specs Latios is extremely powerful. I use Psychic/Trick/DracoMeteor/Surf and it works pretty good. With a bit of scouting and prediction you can trick Blisseys which is, oh god, good ^_^

Ive seen a LOT more DD Latios now. Idk if people use it for the speed bonus + Draco Metor or to use the always cool Outrage, but its just painful to any unprepared team.

Raikou works pretty good as a "counter" to Latios, Switching into Dragon Pulse or an unstabbed move and then 2hko with HP Ice. (Note: HP ICe does like 40-45% on a normal Life Orb Latios, so be sure to have SR up or weaken the Latios a little bit).

Thats it for now.

 

[deadguydrew]

I wasn't able to battle too much today, but what I did battle has changed pretty significantly from even two days ago. Instead of running into primarily Timid@Life Orb Latios designed as special sweepers, I've been seeing more either Physical or Mixed sets using Dragon Dance, or I've been running into more special sweepers using Choice Specs/Scarf, and using Trick as a utility move to cripple things that wall it (Blissey, Suicune). I've also seen no Calm Mind Latios in about two days now.

I'm going to reset my stats on Monday and start breaking it down further than special attacker, mixed, and other, but rather document each major build than I run into. Anyway the numbers --

30 different Latios (mostly different players)
21 are run as special attackers (70%)
7 are run as either physical or mixed sweepers (24%)
And I've run into 2 that are run as support sets (6%).

Again these are fairly rough numbers and only a small sampling of the metagame since I can only battle at certain times, but hopefully this will help some until we get more official shoddystats.

 

[diamondfan1910]

Metagross is not a good Latios counter, Surf 2HKOs and Latios is faster. Metagross was a better Latias counter than he is a Latios counter. He can be a Latios check, but only for revenge kills or if he switches into a Dragon move.

 

[Heartgold]

Raikou works pretty good as a "counter" to Latios, Switching into Dragon Pulse or an unstabbed move and then 2hko with HP Ice. (Note: HP ICe does like 40-45% on a normal Life Orb Latios, so be sure to have SR up or weaken the Latios a little bit).

Thats it for now.

Except shadowball alwayz is a 2KHO on Latios =P, anywayz I've been using Raikou if you have been wondering who's that kid with a UU Raikou. lol Also Raikou isn't a good counter to Latios.

 

[haunter]

Metagross is not a good Latios counter, Surf 2HKOs and Latios is faster. Metagross was a better Latias counter than he is a Latios counter. He can be a Latios check, but only for revenge kills or if he switches into a Dragon move.

I've used the uber trapper set with metagross and it's a decent switch into specs latios (surf can never 2hko), but the problem is that lacking a reliable recovery move means that it can't switch in more than once and must hope to kill latios by pursuiting it on the switch out.

I'm not battling much at the moment, but I'm facing several calm mind latios, and I'm starting to change my mind about the usefulness of recover\roost on it.

Anyway, does anyone know when will the test end?

Have a nice day.