1 and 2 say the same thing in this post
Nat: Specially bulkier with poor recovery but Thunder Wave and better typing
Skarm: physically bulkier with great recovery and can Taunt and phaze
Natt does not completely outclass Skarm. Get over it.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
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1 and 2 say the same thing in this post
Nat: Specially bulkier with poor recovery but Thunder Wave and better typing
Skarm: physically bulkier with great recovery and can Taunt and phaze
Natt does not completely outclass Skarm. Get over it.
Which ones are you talking about? SubPunch sure as hell doesn't run Speed. The only ones I've seen that do are the Dream World ones which still doesn't make sense because they're mostly used to check Doryuuzu
Lanros stone Edge Tickle skarmory in sand. thats just big.
Alright BREELOOM INVEST MAXIMALLY IN SPEED IF USING SUB PUNCH. Either that or 244 speed 12 HP to take advantage of poison heal. Subseed has different spread but subseed is ery complex. Theres many chocie for the spread
Against natts the option is
a. sub first
Free Sub is easy on mono nattrei. If nattrei atatck he dont break the sub. If sleep clause has been activated, nattrei lose hard. If natts have gyro, you can use spore then and gave switch to insane attacker such as terakion. In every cases its a 50-50
Against skarm
a. sub
risky since he can whirlwind you and had it sent out things like CB randorusu, he get free phaze as well as free roost. Need prediction
a. Spore
You 80 % use this. If SC is in effect, you lose the match-up. And we know spore first has never been a good option
Phazing is a big factor in being a wall.
Alright BREELOOM INVEST MAXIMALLY IN SPEED IF USING SUB PUNCH. Either that or 244 speed 12 HP to take advantage of poison heal. Subseed has different spread but subseed is ery complex. Theres many chocie for the spread
Against natts the option is
a. sub first
Free Sub is easy on mono nattrei. If nattrei atatck he dont break the sub. If sleep clause has been activated, nattrei lose hard. If natts have gyro, you can use spore then and gave switch to insane attacker such as terakion. In every cases its a 50-50
Against skarm
a. sub
risky since he can whirlwind you and had it sent out things like CB randorusu, he get free phaze as well as free roost. Need prediction
a. Spore
You 80 % use this. If SC is in effect, you lose the match-up. And we know spore first has never been a good option
Phazing is a big factor in being a wall.
Ok... number one. Dream World isn't a real tier. Stop referencing it. Number two. Breloom rarely ever invests Anything in speed for Spore Punch sets. Skarmory invests a SMALL amount. And BECAUSE of this it outspeeds.
Nat has near equal physical bulk, better attack, better SpD, better typing, slightly inferior recovery, and a more useful ability. Skarm has whirlwind. yay.
You always have to forget Roost, Ground immunity, and STAB that actually does something in this metagame do you?
HAHAHAHAH. What the hell are you talking about? Every single Loom set runs more speed than skarm. Just give up that line of argument. You're clearly wrong in that regard
1)Brave Bird isn't really that useful with its crappy typing and poor coverage. The meta isn't really fighting-heavy at all. I have no clue what you're talking about. (Conkeldurr, Breloom, and Kojondo, that's about it)
2)Roost is only slightly better than Leech Seed.
3)Ground immunity, yayyyyyyyy. Joyous day. That doesn't make up for all its failings
Dont use PO statistics. Most people run bulky loom to check/counetr dory. But inactuality every loom run 2 less than maximal speed in almost every set.
^ ground immunity = immunity to the most central offensive ttype in the game. YEah.. really good
Leech seed isnt reliable. Its is clearly worse than roost other than its HP drain.
This meta is fighting heavy, back in stage 1. In stage 2, and 3 its a bit less.
Brave bird(flying) have actualy good coverage. Many say its sucks without knowing the actual truth
I mean
SE on 3 type : bug, fighting, grass
NVE on 3 type : Electric, rock, steel.
Steel is common but easy to beat. Electric pokemon that is defensive is only one namely Zapdos in gen 4. Rock is mostly offensive. But theres only 3.
^ ground immunity = immunity to the most central offensive ttype in the game. YEah.. really good
Leech seed isnt reliable. Its is clearly worse than roost other than its HP drain.
This meta is fighting heavy, back in stage 1. In stage 2, and 3 its a bit less.
Brave bird(flying) have actualy good coverage. Many say its sucks without knowing the actual truth
I mean
SE on 3 type : bug, fighting, grass
NVE on 3 type : Electric, rock, steel.
Steel is common but easy to beat. Electric pokemon that is defensive is only one namely Zapdos in gen 4. Rock is mostly offensive. But theres only 3.
Ok, first off, we are not talking about the Dream World tier you dumbass, we're talking about Standard OU, which means that Kojondo is out of that list, and Breloom is not running max Speed. You also convinentley forgot about the Grass types that laugh at Nattorei with ease.
Roost is a whole lot better then Leech Seed for something that needs to be able to stay healthy to counter threats throught the fight.
Ground immunity is one of the best traits to have in this metagame, what with Doryuuzu and Landorus running loose.
1) Almost surviving a hit and surviving a hit are entirely different things. Skarm has higher HP and Def. The higher HP also slightly offsets Natt's higher Sp Def.
2) To go along with its higher Atk, NAtt has an inferior STAB.
3) How many Natts can switch in on EQ/Superpower? Yes, better typing, but no it is not better every single time.
4) Greatly inferior recovery. Switching out removes it. It cannot take advantage of a switch as well. It relies to Protect to not die in the meantime.
5) Sturdy is not a bad ability. It allows it to Whirlwind a +3/+3 Mixmence, KO a ChloroSaur with HP Fire, etc.
I cannot even begin to describe how fail this post is. All three points are wrong. It is as simple as that.
Seriously masterful please learn to play before making comments that make you look stupid all the time. Skarm is 10x better than nattorei as a physical wall. Fighting and ground are the 2 most common physical attacking types and they shit all over nattorei. Resisting water and electric is nice and all but these are still primarily special attacks in the metagame. Nattorei tries to do too much walling attacks from both sides which it can't do for very long with no recovery outside of leech seed. Nattorei is overrated period. The only thing it does better than skarm is walling the occasional physical water sweeper ala DD kingdra.
The only things making nattrei good is that it beat water type, the most oevrpowered type ever existed in the metagame, so much that only other water type can actualy ebat them easily. Natts is made to handle that problem. Its bad to think you dont mention that, which is his only big advantage.
Also BREELOM RUN 2 LESS THAN MAX SPEED. Youre all wrong
Also BREELOM RUN 2 LESS THAN MAX SPEED. Youre all wrong
Flying is in no way a poor offensive type. Resisted by Steel, yes, but so are both of Nattorei's STABs. It was only bad before because almost all of the available moves for it sucked.
no he's just an imbecile most of the time (all of the time?)
skarm is as good as it was last gen: good but not amazing. same goes for natt.
on the topic of flying type, it's an inherently good type hindered by many little problems... (drill peck has only ok power, Brave Bird has that irritating recoil, Air Slash is very very weak, Acrobat means no item, Bounce means letting a counter in for free (para chance is nice though) and Gale is only truly viable in Rain... lolskyattack)). Flying is neutral on a lot of things, which is what makes it a truly good type. Kinda like if Dark-type with a 120 BP move existed.
skarm does face inferiority issues of a sort to gliscor though IMO; Glisnatt gives my team big issues (unless the opponent is stupid enough to go "hurr durr let's just put nattorei in on CB Scizor and watch superpower ohko") due to protect on gliscor being an amazing scouting move.
Grass is also a horrendous attacking type resisted by a record 7 types. Its only saving grace is the fact that it hits water for SE.
And Rock.
And Ground.
That's pretty big in this meta, and the previous one when everything was either Water, Ground, Rock, or Nattorei.
Or a crazy-ass Sun team with Ulgamoth/Venusaur/Heatran/Bulkytales/blargh/blorgh.
And guys why do you even bother replying to masterful still.
Ground maybe but rock no. There are only 2 rock types that are commonly used. Tyranitar and Terrakion and both will threaten to kill Nat unless they're choiced and locked into stone edge or something. A lot of the more common ground types also aren't weak to grass like gliscor, garchomp, landlos, dory. Obviously some of the less common ones are but still doesn't change the fact that grass is resisted by 7 types.
Techniloom's ankle sweep kos natt. In fact, practically the only stall pokemon that Technician breloom can't KO is Skarm. So once Loom is released in standard, that's reason enough to use Skarm.
Skarmory has Whirlwind and Roost. That automatically differentiates it from Nattorei, who can't phaze for shit. Neither is better than the other since their niches differ. Skarmory does physical walling while Nattorei does specially inclined general walling. Is there a single physical set-up sweeper besides Kingdra that Nattorei can wall?
Skarmory has Whirlwind and Roost. That automatically differentiates it from Nattorei, who can't phaze for shit. Neither is better than the other since their niches differ. Skarmory does physical walling while Nattorei does specially inclined general walling. Is there a single physical set-up sweeper besides Kingdra that Nattorei can wall?
Minor nitpick but Latias is not uncommon on stall with Rank being so popular and I don't think Loom can KO Latias
With Adamant LO Breloom, Rock Tomb does 34.9-41.2% on CM Roar Latias, which I think uses 252 HP/252 Speed Timid. Bullet Seed does 12.9% - 15.4% for each hit. So after a Rock Tomb, it will take around 4 bullet seeds to KO Latias. Even with a 252/252 Bold Latias, Breloom still can do 84.5% assuming 5 hits land and with maximum damage. Average damage is 56.55% with 3 bullet seed hits.
248/252 Impish Gyarados takes an average of 36.65 from a -1 Rock Tomb and 13.65 from each bullet seed. Assuming no SR, it will take 5 bullet seed hits to KO Gyarados.
All these calcs ignore lefties. And I might have used Latios for the calculations by accident. So take them with a grain of salt.
So yeah, Breloom has a decent chance of beating Latias and Gyarados assuming decent prediction (rock tombing on the switch in) and some luck. Of course, a dragon pulse from a latias with no special attack evs does 49.4% - 58.3% to max hp breloom so it might have a chance to fire bullet seed a second time. It also resist Gyarados's waterfall/stone edge/eq. So bulky Gyara needs bounce to kill loom as even ice fang does 51.5% - 61.4% with no attack evs. And that's if Breloom runs max speed. With max HP, ice fang does 42% - 50%.
So only Skarm can safely switch into Breloom. And that's if it doesn't spore. That's something Nattorei can never do. And screw the people who say that Scizor outclasses Breloom.
248/252 Impish Gyarados takes an average of 36.65 from a -1 Rock Tomb and 13.65 from each bullet seed. Assuming no SR, it will take 5 bullet seed hits to KO Gyarados.
All these calcs ignore lefties. And I might have used Latios for the calculations by accident. So take them with a grain of salt.
So yeah, Breloom has a decent chance of beating Latias and Gyarados assuming decent prediction (rock tombing on the switch in) and some luck. Of course, a dragon pulse from a latias with no special attack evs does 49.4% - 58.3% to max hp breloom so it might have a chance to fire bullet seed a second time. It also resist Gyarados's waterfall/stone edge/eq. So bulky Gyara needs bounce to kill loom as even ice fang does 51.5% - 61.4% with no attack evs. And that's if Breloom runs max speed. With max HP, ice fang does 42% - 50%.
So only Skarm can safely switch into Breloom. And that's if it doesn't spore. That's something Nattorei can never do. And screw the people who say that Scizor outclasses Breloom.
Ferrothorn is, overall, better than Skarmory. I think we can all agree with this.
However, that does not mean that Ferrothorn outclasses Skarmory on every team. Skarmory can do things that Ferrothorn cannot, and for many teams, these things are enough reason to use Skarmory. The overall best defensive Steel-type is not necessarily the best defensive Steel-type for any given team. That's why the metagame is as diverse as it is.
However, that does not mean that Ferrothorn outclasses Skarmory on every team. Skarmory can do things that Ferrothorn cannot, and for many teams, these things are enough reason to use Skarmory. The overall best defensive Steel-type is not necessarily the best defensive Steel-type for any given team. That's why the metagame is as diverse as it is.
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