np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

[alexwolf]

Yes, there are exceptions, but it typically does mean that the pokemon is out-classed or unviable. You want proof? Take all of the BL, UU, and NU pokemon from Gen4. See how many aren't unviable or out-classed in OU from Gen4. The percentage of OU-workable pokemon is going to be pretty small.

I'm not saying that Empoleon is a bad defensive pokemon. But I am saying two other things.

1) If you give 100 players an Empoleon, probably fewer than 10 would make it a specially defensive one. Why? Because they don't think it's the best set.
2) In the field of Bulky Waters, there are other pokemon that are better for general purposes. Empoleon is better at certain things. But as a plain bulky water, Empoleon is not the best on a typical team.

i didn't list him as a plain bulky water...

I don't understand where you're going with that Nattorei analogy. First of all, Roar is unseen even on defensive Empoleon, so if Empoleon has to carry it or be set up bait, then odds are it will get set up on a lot. Secondly, any offensive Gyarados does carry EQ, and any defensive Gyarados could easily deal with an Empoleon. Thirdly, every single Dragon (barring Crimgan) out-speeds Empoleon, so it's going to take at least two hits. If it can't OHKO them (which is a distinct possibility due to 0 Sp Atk EVs), then it takes more hits. With no recovery (not even Wish or Leech Seed) I don't see how it will be doing that from pokemon with stats like Sazandora and Latios. Basically, Empoleon switches in on a Draco Meteor. Dragon switches out. In order to be able to check the Dragons, a pokemon has to be able to do that scenario multiple times. Empoleon can only do 2 or 3 before fainting. Fourthly, Empoleon does not wall Kabutops. Low Kick is almost Universal on Kabutops now in order to deal with Nattorei. And last but not least, by using SR it has used up its final moveslot. Let's hope it doesn't need a 5th one later on in your arguments.

i just explained how empoleon can fit in some roles done by nattorei,for example countering kingdra,cause everyone says that there are few counters for the broken trio(kabutops,kingdra,nattorei).i am not saying there are a lot but for sure more than people claim to be...
and explain me how empoleon can be often setup bait with 111 base special attack?just explain this to me...more offensive sp.attackers are going to be hit very hard by one of empoleon's attacks...and why do u think that roar is a rare option on defensive empoleon...why do u state your opinion as a fact...roar is perfectly viable and used on defensive empoleon...defensive empoleon isn't commonly used and that's why you say that you haven't seen one with roar...when you see a defensive one the chances that it will have roar are pretty big...just because you see 1 defensive empoleon out of 100 teams doesn't mean that roar is rare on it...if you see 2 of them and 1 is having roar then the chances are 50%...
and yes a lot of gyarados don't carry eq cause they have almost perfect accuracy with waterfall and bounce and sometimes they just have waterfall with stone edge and taunt.i am not going to argue with you for this matter...the most dangerous dragons who are going to outrage(cause for those i spoke that empoleon can work against)are salamence and garchomp and both of them are 4x weak to ice so i don't think that they are not going to be ohkoed(i am sure that they will)except if garchomp holds yache berry...

and when u were talking about his recovery you forgot the part in which i mentioned that a partner with wish is very good and almost must have if u are not running a sleep talk set....
and I DIDN'T SAID THAT EMPOLEON ALWAYS WALLS KABUTOPS...i wrote these exact words:empoleon walls sometimes kabutops.read better next time i can't do something for this...kabutops doesn't always carry low kick,he sometimes runs return or x-scissor...if kabutops has these moves then yes empoleon walls him...for these situations i was talking...and to close with this paragraph did i,mr smartass,say that empoleon will have all of the mentioned moves???tell me...did i?there are 3 moveslots that can be changed according to your needs...if you don't care about bulky waters you don't run grass knot,if you don't care about dragons you don't run ice beam and if you have someone else with sr you don't run it...and finally if you don't care about phazing don't run roar...simple as that...

So people aren't using it because they are experimenting with DW abilities and Unova pokemon? Well, that perfectly explains the high usage of pokemon like Scizor, who haven't changed a bit. Pokemon who were OU last Gen and haven't fallen to disuse like Empoleon.

i didn't tell that they don't use it 'cause they use only new pokes and abilities...learn to read!!!i told that they don't use him 'cause they are using the old standarts like scizor,lati@s,tyranitar etc(they know that they are good so they want to use them),and the new pokes/abilities(they are new so they want to use them).after some time when the metagame becomes more staple a lot more pokemons are going to see more use...

Do you want to know the real reason that people say Empoleon doesn't counter rain? It's not because they don't want to adapt. It's because Ludicolo 2HKOes with Focus Blast, and Empoleon can't do shit back. It's because Kabutops destorys it with Low Kick. Both of those moves are incredibly common on those pokemon. Both of those pokemon are incredibly common on rain teams.

first of all one pokemon cannot counter rain...i didn' said that he counters rain.i said that he fares well against 2 of the most powerfull tools of rain(not always against kabutops but still...).and if i remember well everyone says that rain is broken 'cause of three pokes.so if empoleon can check half of them(half 'cause he doesn't always walls kabutops)i say that this is pretty good...

Empoleon cannot have Grass Knot, Ice Beam, and Surf. If it does, you have to sacrifice SR or Roar. And by doing that, you sacrifice several reasons for using it in the first place, according to you.

according to me the unique traits of empoleon as a water type were sr,typing and grass knot not roar...so even without roar he is still very good...you don't always have to run sr...it is a big plus that he learns it but it's not obligatory...there are a lot of reasons to use him...you don't have to satisfy every reason to use him over another bulky water,for him to be useful...not at all...

Every team needs different defensive needs. You can't lump them all together like you did. That's like saying that Nattorei/Burungeru works on ALL teams and that it fulfills very need for any type of team that uses it. No core works that way,

Secondly, if Empoleon were to hypothetically require Gliscor and Blissey on a team with it, it wouldn't be a good defensive pokemon. In that hypothetical scenario, that would be un-realistic. Not every team has 3 slots to spare.

did i say that the core i mentioned always works??did i??why are you forming arguments without even reading mine?if you want to have a coversation you must read what i write...i said that it's a great all-around core...that and only that!and i didn't say that to use empoleon,gliscor or blissey are required...i just said that they have good synergy together...why are you always distorting my sayings???LEARN TO READ!!!

Empoleon with Roar is going to be switching out a lot. Because it will take a lot of hits. It will need constant Wish support from Blissey. Not only can the opponent exploit that need, but Blissey would get worn down after a while. One pokemon can't do it all.

i am not even going to comment this...if u are a good player you can manage to keep your defensive core with wish alive when the 2/3 of it have reliable recovery on their own(gliscor via poison heal and protect and blissey....)...if you are not then don't use them...end of the deal!

And you also have to consider that those 3 pokemon wouldn't necessarily pair up well with the rest of a team. For one thing, a potential (highly likely, in fact) weather changer already takes up a fourth slot, leaving a team with only 2 left, which limits teambuilding. Not to mention that almost any sweeper has bad defensive synergy with your little trio. Doryuuzu and Randorosu share Fighting/Water and Ice/Water weaknesses, limiting who you can switch to. Chlorophyll and Fire pokemon are weak to Ice and Water, limiting switching ability. Birijion and Terakion share Ice and Fighting/Water weaknesses with the team.

again failed to see my point.i didn't said that they would necessarily pair up well with the rest of the team...i just mentioned a good defensive combination(type-wise and synergy-wise)and you just keep doing me the same stupid question:is it good on any team?of course no...

Perhaps you should stop saying bullshit about what I said. Because I NEVER said it was un-competitive. I said that is is somewhat out-classed at things other than countering Kingdra. And don't lie to yourself: it is.

sry about missunderstanding one saying of yours...and i don't lie to myself you are just close minded and thing that your words are absolute...just because you believe something doesn't mean it is right...sry but this is the truth.good day!

 

[alexwolf]

Empoleon is bad because outside of countering rain, it loses to 30 of the 40 most OU pokemon right now.

it is true that he is weak to a lot of ou pokes right now but as i told before with proper support and intelligent play he can be very good.he certainly isn't a pokemon which you put in a team without much thought like garchomp,latios or gliscor...

 

[masterful]

it is true that he is weak to a lot of ou pokes right now but as i told before with proper support and intelligent play he can be very good.he certainly isn't a pokemon which you put in a team without much thought like garchomp,latios or gliscor...

More than being weak to many pokes, he is also soundly defeated by the broken trio. Kingdra often carries HP Fighting, Kabutops Low Kick, and Ludi Focus Blast

 

[JSND]

Broken trio is nearly unstoppable. But as of now, celebi is doing a good work at fighting rain team for some unknown reason. His supporting prowess is still unmatched as a bulky grass with true reliable recovery. Still the broken trio has a way around him.

The problem with celebi is he cant reliably beat Tyranitar and Tinkerbell variants(i use it now) with modest full SpA is walled to death by hippowdon which takes Super effective Leaf Storm AND survive.

 

[Ian15]

The problem with celebi is he cant reliably beat Tyranitar and Tinkerbell variants(i use it now) with modest full SpA is walled to death by hippowdon which takes Super effective Leaf Storm AND survive.

Where's Life Orb, which is the item you are suppose to use, it is a OKHO and with leftovers it is sometimes.

 

[Hoenn]

I just want to mention that banning drizzle would ruin rain stall, which is a playstyle in its own right.

 

[capefeather]

So how about that Wobbuffet? It still seems like a great revenge killer, though I haven't used it much myself. One Wobbuffet I faced took a Choice Specs Hydro Pump from Kingdra once... but it was paralyzed and it skipped that crucial Mirror Coat turn. It went on to win, anyway, because it had killed my Steel-type and that was evidently all that it needed.

Also lol UT has 999 threads

 

[TLK]

I just want to mention that banning drizzle would ruin rain stall, which is a playstyle in its own right.

It's also broken.

Besides, there's no way of making it so that you can use Drizzle for stall teams but not Offensive Rain. It's just not viable. It's like saying Garchomp isn't uber without Yache in Gen IV - while it may be true, there's no decent way of enforcing such a thing.

 

[Raikaria]

I just want to mention that banning drizzle would ruin rain stall, which is a playstyle in its own right.

Now that's just scrapeing the bottom of the barrel to find excuses to not ban Drizzle.

Rain Stall is just dreadful. The rain itself dosen't give any benifits to stall [Unless you want to count the reduction in the power of Fire-type attacks for the likes of Natt and Skarm].

Tentacruel, Blastroise and Ludicolo are hardly stallers, so can't really abuse Rain Dish.

Hydration Vaporeon, Manaphy, and Dugong [Spelling?] won't win any awards either, when they're forced to rest every turn, get set up on, and aren't dealing any damage. Then, whatever set up proceeds to sweep.

Then there's always taunters, especially Erufunn laughing at their attempts to rest.

Then there's other weathers switching in, and ruining everything.

Rain Stall is a joke. Weather-based stall needs a weather that deals passive damage. Sand Stall is viable because it works wth several types, and boosts Rock type's Sp.Def, as well as damageing other pokemon. Hail Stall has Stallrein, which only works becuse of the passive damage from Hail.

If you're going to cite something as a playstyle that's not broken, that will suffer as a result of Drizzle's banning, please cite a playstyle that's actually viable in the first place. Even if all other weathers were banned, Rain Stall would not be that viable, as long as you had a half decent physical attacker.

EDIT: Funny, I say the exact opposite of TLK.

 

[alamaster]

But why do you think it is broken? Drizzle doesn't seem broken on Beta but somehow on Smogon the metagame differs so much that it is? Don't give me the "oh they aren't playing Rain to its fullest potential", because I see the same mindless Rain teams on both servers. People are throwing the best Rain sweepers and Nattorei and that's using Rain to its best potential? Give me a break.

 

[Hoenn]

Now that's just scrapeing the bottom of the barrel to find excuses to not ban Drizzle.

Rain Stall is just dreadful. The rain itself dosen't give any benifits to stall [Unless you want to count the reduction in the power of Fire-type attacks for the likes of Natt and Skarm].

Tentacruel, Blastroise and Ludicolo are hardly stallers, so can't really abuse Rain Dish.

Hydration Vaporeon, Manaphy, and Dugong [Spelling?] won't win any awards either, when they're forced to rest every turn, get set up on, and aren't dealing any damage. Then, whatever set up proceeds to sweep.

Then there's always taunters, especially Erufunn laughing at their attempts to rest.

Then there's other weathers switching in, and ruining everything.

Rain Stall is a joke. Weather-based stall needs a weather that deals passive damage. Sand Stall is viable because it works wth several types, and boosts Rock type's Sp.Def, as well as damageing other pokemon. Hail Stall has Stallrein, which only works becuse of the passive damage from Hail.

If you're going to cite something as a playstyle that's not broken, that will suffer as a result of Drizzle's banning, please cite a playstyle that's actually viable in the first place. Even if all other weathers were banned, Rain Stall would not be that viable, as long as you had a half decent physical attacker.

EDIT: Funny, I say the exact opposite of TLK.

I only mentioned it becasue I haven't seen it mentioned yet. No need to jump the bandwagon there mate. And tell me Paraect isn't amazing in rain.

 

[Benlisted]

It's also broken.

Besides, there's no way of making it so that you can use Drizzle for stall teams but not Offensive Rain. It's just not viable. It's like saying Garchomp isn't uber without Yache in Gen IV - while it may be true, there's no decent way of enforcing such a thing.

Theoretically, the suggested Clause to ban Swift Swim and Drizzle on the same team would allow for this.

I only mentioned it becasue I haven't seen it mentioned yet. No need to jump the bandwagon there mate. And tell me Paraect isn't amazing in rain.

Indeed, Rain Stall is largely unheard of but it is viable. Parasect, Rain Dish Tentacruel, Vappy with Hydration, etc are its primary abusers, and a defensive Rain playstyle is certainly possible. The main issue is losing out on SS damage, to which end T-Spikes and Phazing becomes important.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Rain really isnt that broken if you have something to get around it. For example I use a Sun team, If sun is up, which it frequently because nobody protects their Politoed when they dont see me lead with Tales (usually comes second) than Victreebel completely destroys your "broken trio". Additionally he deals with weakened members of the trio as well with priority in the form of Sucker Punch and resistance to opposite priority. Tbh, Rain alone isn't that broken I've faced around 12 weather teams that I remember so far, 6 rain, 4 Sand, 1 Hail, 1 Rain/Sand and i've only lost once to the Sand team. Weather isn't that likely to sweep prepared teams at a moments notice, the only problem i see is that weather in general consists of a large portion of the metagame, say 40 %, which can be overcentralising.

Also to those complaining about instant sweeps, please dont bring up info about some random n00b you swept. If you can consistantly sweep high level players who don't have a huge weakness to your team ~70% of the time then maybe ill listen to your arguments about how broken it is. Until then keep on sweeping n00bs while you wonder why you cant get to the 5th page of the rankings.

@ my above paragraph, that is specifically directed at the rain ban proponents whose only argument is that i sweep so easily with it. For those who actually discuss the merits of certain pokes, ignore it.

 

[astrohawke]

EDIT: Funny, I say the exact opposite of TLK.

It's very clear that people are just saying anything to get a blanket ban on drizzle and don't actually know anything for certain without actually testing drizzle without swift swim. One says rain stall is still broken and another says it's terrible.

The only reason you can give for banning drizzle completely instead of just swift swim is if you believe that the other bonuses (double stab, 100% acc thunder/gale, 50% fire) are still broken. Which you can't really prove until it's tested. And if it is proven to be still broken, then ban drizzle and unban swift swim. But to do a blanket ban without testing is just stupid.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

It's very clear that people are just saying anything to get a blanket ban on drizzle and don't actually know anything for certain without actually testing drizzle without swift swim. One says rain stall is still broken and another says it's terrible.

The only reason you can give for banning drizzle completely instead of just swift swim is if you believe that the other bonuses (double stab, 100% acc thunder/gale, 50% fire) are still broken. Which you can't really prove until it's tested. And if it is proven to be still broken, then ban drizzle and unban swift swim. But to do a blanket ban without testing is just stupid.

Any excuse to ban Drizzle. XD

This reminds me a bit of DP UU. Instant Hail was considered broken by a lot of people at one point. Some people wanted to ban the ability. In the end we just banned Abomasnow, and it turned out that Snover wasn't broken (infact, Snover didn't even make UU in the end). I think the UU threads are still archived somewhere, so you can check them out if you want. I know a lot of people posting in this thread posted in them too (although I have been posting on this forum for like half a decade...).

It's not so bad now, but it'd be interesting to see how this debate would be going if Magikarp also had Drizzle...

But I think the best route is not to learn from out past mistakes, and just to ban Drizzle off the bat. No need to test anything. Theorymon is enough.

 

[Farukon_o_miru]

FML
1) On a normal team, Politoed is not worth it. There's a reason that it hes never been OU or even BL. I know that 5th Gen is different. We are not in Gen2, 3 or 4. However, I can safely say that if you aren't basing your team off of Drizzle, you shouldn't be using Politoed.

2) If you read my post, you would see that I already discussed Thunder/Gale and why they are insignificant.

3) Why are you comparing Porygon-Z and Politoed? I did not compare Politoed to Porygon-Z at all. How could you possibly think that I was from my post? They serve entirely different roles (offense vs. support) and are therefore not comparable. Hence why I didn't do so, but you apparently did anyway.

4) Politoed does not resist Close Combat. Learn the type chart please.

5) In the 4th Gen, rain teams had Swift Swim. It would not be like 4th Gen rain teams. Not at all.

6) It would not be like SS teams. That's like saying that peaches and bananas are both fruit, so they must be the same. No. One weather =/= all weathers.

1) "If you aren´t basing your team on Gravity, then you mustn´t use Gravity on a pokemon"... makes sense, if Politoed wasn´t used in other generation it is because there were many other water types with better offensive and defensive stats, movepool and abilities, but now there are a few of things that resist an x2.25 Hydropump from its sp. att, and you can use many set with it, a pokemon with an attack so powerful and with great coverage, Hypnosis, decent defensive stats and speed, decent typing and other good attacks like Ice Beam or Psychic is nothing to laugh at, it ensures you that at least you will put to sleep one pokemon and make a good damage on any other pokemon, and then you can use other pokemon of your team that can make use of Rain.
2) If you think it, Zapdos with this attack can be really terrible, or Magnezone, or Jolteon, really, it is a 120 bp attack that have a 30% of probability of generate paralysis, with STAB it can be a good attack, and it can be a good coverage attack too.
3) You were using Porygon-Z as an example of how unimportant is a double STAB, but between a normal double STAB and a water double STAB, there is much difference...
4) It isn´t what i was trying to explain with my comment. I was trying to say that some sets of Politoed can resist a Close Combat from (for example) Infernape, and return back with a KO using Hidropump or Boil Over.
5) No, it is not, it is the 5th gen and there is much difference between 4th gen and 5th gen, many thing have changed so we can´t tier the 5th gen metagame based on the things that have worked in 4th gen.
6) When i say that "without Swift Swim rain can be like sand teams were in 4th gen." i´m referring that without SwiftSwim rain can be used in the 5th gen. more like a defensive strategy, something useful to have in your team with some pokemons that can do a good usage of it but without making an important and broken abuse of it (obviously now sand is different, and rain too) perhaps i should have explained it better...

PS. I think that at least we must test a metagame without SwiftSwim, Chlorophyll and Sandthrow before banning, perhaps it can work better than baning auto-weather abilities.

 

[UltiMario]

Now, can someone explain something to me?

If everyone's always like "Oh it's a new Gen we have to re-evaluate weather and ban it because it's broken now because it's so much better than gen 4", etc...

Why can't this be a new Gen, and it be a weather Metagame? Why must we ban weather if it usually has the advantage over non-weather teams? From what I see, the only issue with a weather dominated metagame is that people want to play like its Gen IV or something, and well, it's not Gen IV anymore.

It's like if we banned every sweeper in Gen III because we preferred Gen II's slower, more stall-based metagame because we're used to that and it becomes easier to play in the same style you have done for years. Someone give me a good reason why we should ban weather for "Standard teams" when standard teams aren't even standard anymore.

 

[alamaster]

Now, can someone explain something to me?

If everyone's always like "Oh it's a new Gen we have to re-evaluate weather and ban it because it's broken now because it's so much better than gen 4", etc...

Why can't this be a new Gen, and it be a weather Metagame? Why must we ban weather if it usually has the advantage over non-weather teams? From what I see, the only issue with a weather dominated metagame is that people want to play like its Gen IV or something, and well, it's not Gen IV anymore.

It's like if we banned every sweeper in Gen III because we preferred Gen II's slower, more stall-based metagame because we're used to that and it becomes easier to play in the same style you have done for years. Someone give me a good reason why we should ban weather for "Standard teams" when standard teams aren't even standard anymore.

Best post I've seen in this thread. People hate change, so they ban it without really thinking that maybe this IS the metagame.

 

[AlphaSpade]

I agree with UltiMario's post. It seems that people just want so many weather elements banned out of pure vendetta rather than actual brokenness (even though Drizzle is still kind of a bitch). People always citing the same sweepers over and over pretty much shows how close-minded everyone is being about this new meta.

 

[UltiMario]

Quite honestly, I think the first few months of Gen V has been people overreacting to new things.

I really wouldn't be surprised if that at a later date, Inconsistent and Deo-N are re-tested (or Manaphy in this case if she ends up getting the boot here), and found less broken than they have been declared now. Now, it might not be enough to drop them back into OU, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something banned now fell back down again after the metagame was stabilized.

These knee-jerk movements at the beginning of Gen V from unfamiliarity, and baseness of banning on Gen IV grounds, and weather is just part of that step.

We may be trying to ban something that's completely non-broken and very competitive, some people are just not willing to roll with it long enough to actually understand that.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Quite honestly, I think the first few months of Gen V has been people overreacting to new things.

I really wouldn't be surprised if that at a later date, Inconsistent and Deo-N are re-tested (or Manaphy in this case if she ends up getting the boot here), and found less broken than they have been declared now. Now, it might not be enough to drop them back into OU, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something banned now fell back down again after the metagame was stabilized.

These knee-jerk movements at the beginning of Gen V from unfamiliarity, and baseness of banning on Gen IV grounds, and weather is just part of that step.

We may be trying to ban something that's completely non-broken and very competitive, some people are just not willing to roll with it long enough to actually understand that.

Ehh,no.

1.Inconsistent is broken,because it turns the game into a roll of dice and the boosts they get decide the match,

2.Deoxys-N is debatable,but in the end,it's a mon with 150/150/150 offenses and a movepool that can abuse it. He doesn't need much to rip everything apart.

3.The only weather people are complaining about is Rain. We have our counters,we use them,we can win. But these "counters" are either useless or out classed outside of rain,or make other mons completely unviable.
You NEED 2-3 mons to counter a rain team,and then you need the other slots to counter Sand teams. If nothing is done,there wouldn't be much variety at all because balance teams would be unviable.
There would only be weather teams. If you want to make a team,you only have to either make a weather team or use one of these mons:
A.Nattorei
B.Bronzong
C.Rankurusu
D.Hail Tentacruel
E.T-tar/Hippowdon
F.Abomasnow

There are others,but these are pretty much the best at giving you a chance at winning against rain AND sand.

If Drizzle is banned,then Sun takes its place as the 2nd most dominant weather,but I think we can all agree,that Sun teams are a LOT more manageable alongside Sand.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

@ Ultimario
I completely agree, although not about Deo and Inconsistent. Its a bit of a similar situation to the Platinum tutor introduction. People had to adjust to the new moves that gave pokemon boosts and that Scizor and Salamence were now extremely dangerous. Now its this gen and weather has gotten a boost but people this time are overreacting and saying ban ASAP. if I were a suspect voter I would be voting to say leave weather alone for three suspect periods (this being the second) and see how it settles in once people have had a chance to acclimatize to it. Bringing it up this early only provides incentive for people to try to ban it early.

 

[Cshadow]

Any bulky water with Water Absorb (or can just take a boosted water attack) can utilize Hail as an anti-rain/other weather measure. Pokemon like Toxicroak (with Balloon) are also amazing when trying to deal with rain. The list is far from as small as you've shown it to be. Not to mention, I don't see any un-viable Pokemon listed in that list, as all of them do fantastically outside of "countering rain"

I don't know whether or not to ban Drizzle - I run a weather team, so, I'm not fit to suggest that it's "really easy" or "too hard"

 

[AlphaSpade]

Ehh,no.

1.Inconsistent is broken,because it turns the game into a roll of dice and the boosts they get decide the match,

2.Deoxys-N is debatable,but in the end,it's a mon with 150/150/150 offenses and a movepool that can abuse it. He doesn't need much to rip everything apart.

3.The only weather people are complaining about is Rain. We have our counters,we use them,we can win. But these "counters" are either useless or out classed outside of rain,or make other mons completely unviable.
You NEED 2-3 mons to counter a rain team,and then you need the other slots to counter Sand teams. If nothing is done,there wouldn't be much variety at all because balance teams would be unviable.
There would only be weather teams. If you want to make a team,you only have to either make a weather team or use one of these mons:
A.Nattorei
B.Bronzong
C.Rankurusu
D.Hail Tentacruel
E.T-tar/Hippowdon
F.Abomasnow

There are others,but these are pretty much the best at giving you a chance at winning against rain AND sand.

If Drizzle is banned,then Sun takes its place as the 2nd most dominant weather,but I think we can all agree,that Sun teams are a LOT more manageable alongside Sand.

1. I'd have to agree with you on Inconsistent, but everything else not so much.

2. I could say the same thing about Salamence. It may have lower offensive stats (about 310 ATK/Sp. Atk is the standard, compared to Deo's 336/399.), but it has an arguably better STAB-type and better offensive options (Fire Blast and EQ covers everything that resists Dragon, Superpower and HP Fire mean you have issues with bulky Psychics like Rankurusu, and ESpeed is too good to pass up for Shadow Ball.), not to mention more bulk, augmented even more by Intimidate.

3. Well, I've seen other people gripe about Sand and Sun (Halp Doryuzzu and Venusaur are too fast and can do too much). Also, I don't seem to recall Nattorei, Burungeru, and crew be useless outside of countering rain.

Also, you DON'T need certain mons to make your team rain/sand proof. This is just spice for the whole "overcentralization" argument.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Any bulky water with Water Absorb (or can just take a boosted water attack) can utilize Hail as an anti-rain/other weather measure. Pokemon like Toxicroak (with Balloon) are also amazing when trying to deal with rain. The list is far from as small as you've shown it to be.

I don't know whether or not to ban Drizzle - I run a weather team, so, I'm not fit to suggest that it's "really easy" or "too hard"

Any bulky water,is NOT going to like a grass attack from Manaphy/Ludicolo or a Thunder from a possible Zapdos.
You can't just switch them in unless they spam water attacks.