• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've been running a really simple (and kind of bad tbh) Dual Screen team of basically Deoxys-s / Shell Break Gorebyss / 4 sweepers, but its been surprisingly effective. Barring the occasional bullshit, it's usually way too easy to get screens down and then just sweep with a +2/+2 mon. I guess the most annoying Pokemon to play is Voltolos because of its priority Taunt, but it's pretty frail so I've usually been able to play around it....

IDK I kinda suck but if I can win so easily with this then its probably a little too good....
 
Haha E_M I've been saying this since day 1.

Deoxys-S + Baton Pass Gorebyss is pretty ridiculous, but good luck convincing everyone else. Even if Gorebyss were to get banned, her other half (Huntail) would do the same thing.
 
eheh, I have to agree with you guys. I stole EM's team, twisted it a little and came up with a gimmick BP team which, barring some ridiculuos hax, is doing extremely well. DS Deoxys-S is currently the most reliable lead for an offensive team as it basically only loses to Thundurus' MH'd taunt.

Shells smash Gorebyss is amazing as well, nobody expects it and if you manage to pass its boosts to something like Latios, then it's good game most of the time.
 
I am totally convinced. I built a team using Deo-S and Bronzong as my screeners, Smeargle and Gorebyss as passers, and Gardevoir (Trace for screwing over weather sweepers) and Latios as receivers, and it nearly always wins. As for Thundurus, I EV Deo to be able to OHKO it with Ice Beam.
 
yeah i agree although i think its more Deoxys-S that is broken and not Gorebyss, or maybe its Dual Screens idk.
 
I agree too. It's just a little too powerful and hard to stop. Gorebyss isn't too fragile and can come in on a fair number of things. And unlike cloyster, you wouldn't be able to immediately punish it or crippling it with twave has less of an effect when it just BPs out.

Not sure how we can fix this though. It's really the move that's quite broken. +2/+2/+2 is insane and the -1 defenses really matters a lot less when you outspeed everything anyway and you just BP to something that resists the common priorities. But banning the move will probably make a lot of people QQ about pokemon like cloyster not being viable anymore.
 
B-Lulz said:
yeah i agree although i think its more Deoxys-S that is broken and not Gorebyss, or maybe its Dual Screens idk.
Click to expand...

Though admittedly I have less than a lot of experience with this strategy, I kinda agree with this. Without the dual screens, Gorebyss will find it a lot harder to SS and pass safely. Deo-S may not be the only user of them, but he's the fastest one and has Magic Coat, rendering it exceedingly effective at screening. He could be the one possibly broken under what used to be support, I suppose, or even Light Clay could - as without it your screens will end as the sweeper begins its assault, making it (presumably) easier to beat? I don't really believe this, just throwing it out there.
 
I ran a Deoxys-S and used Magic Coat just to take down priority taunters. Really great move, and I can sometimes cheekily steal Toxic Spikes from a Tentacruel or Forretress with good prediction.
 
Yeah, i use Xatu for screener and bouncing stuff, it setup very easy and then i send gorebyss to an ice beam direct to xatu and start the passing proces. Who you think is the best shell break receiver ? I use Garchomp (EQ/SD/Dragon Claw/Flamethrow(but i must change it w/ fire blast).
 
You guys do realize every scarfer in the world outspeeds Gorebyss? She's slower than even Swampert, so at +2 she's not exactly breaking marathon records. Even Scarf Rotom outsped her (and Omastar) back in her rainy UU days.

And if she shell smashes twice to beat those scarfers, then she's even more vulnerable to priority. So to mention her coming anywhere near a ban is comical. Don't overhype the pink dolphin when she doesn't even deserve it.
 
I don't even think Deoxys-S is the problem. If we were to ban him, people would just use other effective screeners in his place. Its Shell Break itself thats the problem...We can't do move bans so its bye-bye for Gorebyss (and eventually Huntail) of course this might not catch on. People are sheep in general and are hellbent on using "standard" teams (i've seen the cookie cutter sand team in at least 50% of my matches)

The worst sweeper in existence is +2/+2 Garchomp. x_x
 
PK Gaming said:
I don't even think Deoxys-S is the problem. If we were to ban him, people would just use other effective screeners in his place. Its Shell Break itself thats the problem...

We can't do move bans so its bye-bye for Gorebyss (and eventually Huntail) of course this might not catch on. People are sheep in general and are hellbent on using "standard" teams (i've seen the cookie cutter sand team in at least 50% of my matches)
Click to expand...

Gorebyss itself is hard to define as the issue like everything else in this combo really - it's slow, not too bulky and not a great sweeper even with SS. It alone baton passing SS to something else is hard to do and easier to deal with by outright attacking it - a way most teams would be able to do.

Screens, while harder to counter (less pokemon have taunt) is only really made quite impossibly hard to stop by Deo-S, whose insane speed and Magic Coat means that he can almost assuredly get both up to give Gorebyss a cushion and the sweeper it passes to an easier time for 3 or so turns too. It's still not easy to define as the broken part of the combo by any means, I just don't think it should be eliminated as a possibility.
 
The real problem is Shell Break + Baton Pass, not Gorebyss sweeping. It has the bulk to easily pull it off, especially with screen support from something like Deo-S. I just hit the ladder today and that strategy is becoming more and more prevalent. Not saying its ban worthy, but it definitely presents a major problem when you can pass the Break off to something that can actually make use of it.
 
Instead of Deoxys-S, I think Dual Screen Latios with Memento is a much better choice. I've been using the short Baton Pass strategy extensively the last two days or so and Skarmory and Gyarados are pretty annoying with their Whirlwind or Roar. My preferred receiver is pure special Lucario with 4 attacking moves (Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, Psychic, HP Ice) or 4 moves Latias. Garchomp seems like an excellent idea, though.

Also, instead of Gorebyss, you can try Venomoth, who gets Sleep Powder, Butterfly Dance, and Baton Pass. However, you probably want two turns worth of Butterfly Dance to get any kind of sweep going. On the plus side, it gets to shut down something with Sleep Powder, and its Substitute is almost unbreakable by a single special attack after Butterfly Dance.
 
Is the problem Deo-S or Gorebyss?

Deoxys-S just puts up screens, but they allow Gorebyss to happily use Shell Smash and BP the boosts away.

Gorebyss is a mediocre sweeper, is not terribly bulky, and is super slow even after the Shell Smash.

Dual Screens is what makes it so tough to stop, but banning Deoxys-S does nothing as people will just use something else. Espeon, for example, is fast and isn't screwed over by Taunt.

So, what is going to be done?
 
If anybody even suggests banning Dual Screens+Shell Break+Baton Pass I'm going to scream. Just saying. It's good, but there are ways of playing around it.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
If anybody even suggests banning Dual Screens+Shell Break+Baton Pass I'm going to scream. Just saying. It's good, but there are ways of playing around it.
Click to expand...

Lets ban Dual Screens+Shell Break+Baton Pass!

jk

But what are some ways to play around it? Aside from using an Unaware pokemon or phazing them, what else is there?
 
Bringing in a Taunter on the switch to Gorebyss seems like a pretty solid way to counter the strategy, especially if they resist Gorebyss's attacks. Paralysing non-Ground sweepers being passed to also makes it much more manageable (or Burning Physical ones), as ofc course does anything Brick Breaking the Screens. Protect to stall sweepers out of turns of Screens may help you revenge them with priority. Phazing, or similar (haze, clear smog) Gorebyss is probably the best way to beat the strategy, however.

Imo I don't think this is broken, it's just a very new threat to a lot of people out there and they haven't had chance to adapt to it (or even think up a reliable way to beat it), I just like to theorymon about stuff like this XD. But yeah, it's like when DW Politoed and Tales were released, my Sun team immediately shot to ridiculously high on the PO ladder (smogon's server didn't exist then) but that was primarily down to noone being prepared for it. I just hope people will try and adapt before making a judgement rather than coming and nominating it blindly..
 
I would say just hold off on even mentioning this shell smash passing on this suspect round just so we can get a bit of a handle more on the meta we have right now. Unless it randomly starts getting WAY more common in the next couple weeks and we begin to see a huge shift in the meta and realize there is little to no way to stop it. We shouldn't even consider nominating it yet. Personally I have only been swept by this strategy once. However I have only seen it a few times.


Honestly, there is nothing in this meta right now that is taking the spot light by too much. Reuniclus and Conkeldurr... very common and strong threats but not unbreakable. Blaziken... maybe? Latios...

This meta seems overall, pretty dang clean.
 
Benlisted said:
Bringing in a Taunter on the switch to Gorebyss seems like a pretty solid way to counter the strategy, especially if they resist Gorebyss's attacks. Paralysing non-Ground sweepers being passed to also makes it much more manageable (or Burning Physical ones), as ofc course does anything Brick Breaking the Screens. Protect to stall sweepers out of turns of Screens may help you revenge them with priority. Phazing, or similar (haze, clear smog) Gorebyss is probably the best way to beat the strategy, however.

Imo I don't think this is broken, it's just a very new threat to a lot of people out there and they haven't had chance to adapt to it (or even think up a reliable way to beat it), I just like to theorymon about stuff like this XD. But yeah, it's like when DW Politoed and Tales were released, my Sun team immediately shot to ridiculously high on the PO ladder (smogon's server didn't exist then) but that was primarily down to noone being prepared for it. I just hope people will try and adapt before making a judgement rather than coming and nominating it blindly..
Click to expand...

Taunt/phazing generally doesn't work on Gorebyss, you really need to kill it. I mean, hell, I've used Shell Smash Gorebyss in Ubers and it completely dominates things. You want to Roar me out?? Fine, I'll just kill you with Gorebyss and continue sweeping or Pass away. You want to Taunt me? Same thing, I'll just kill. Provided, this is Ubers and you get easy rain support from Kyogre, allowing you to OHKO Dialga with Hydro Pump, but you can take the drop in power drop in OU to compensate for the fact that rain isn't as easily accessible and Swift Swim is banned with it.
 
Did I miss the part where someone actually gives a reason why this is broken?

Shell Smash Gorebyss is a good strategy. Nothing more. It's not broken; it's not unreasonable to play around. It's not a problem, so stop looking for a solution.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
If anybody even suggests banning Dual Screens+Shell Break+Baton Pass I'm going to scream. Just saying. It's good, but there are ways of playing around it.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Sure there are ways around it. I'm not advocating a ban atm. The main point I'm trying to make is how it will severely limit offensive teams if this baton pass trend becomes a dominant strategy. I think that for the sake of a diverse metagame, where plain offense is viable and you aren't forced to pack a phazer, some form of power check or even a ban may be necessary. There are ways to play around BP in Gen 3 too, but it's also gotten nominated.
 
I used a pretty nice team using the ideas from this thread. I pair Gorebyss up with Zapdos with LO+3 attacks + Baton Pass. I've found that people often try to Life Orb stall me, meaning I can pass the Shell Smash boosts again to another sweeper like Lucario or Latios.

Deoxys-S is still amazing. It practically guarantees at least a couple of layers of hazards.

Gorebyss is all over the ladder today though. It's like when people first realised that Inconsistent is good.
 
Reachzero tried something similar on me in rey's B&W tournament. It was a DS Memento Latios, and I had a Sub+DD Kingdra and I timed the Sub so that it would block Memento. I'm not sure how well this would work against Gorebyss, but it seems like a good strategy if you predict well enough.
 
I really have to agree with what's going around in this thread; I built a shell smash team in like three minutes and have only lost once to a bs meteor mass miss. It's certainly a good strategy, but I've done that with regular teams and i feel like my opponents have had chances to win where they didn't.

I don't think it deserves anything close to banning, but is certainly viable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top