• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

Status
Not open for further replies.
alphatron said:
By setting up on Ninetales, what specifically do you mean? I know the full extent of kingdra's damage against sun. But I want to know what move you'd have him use against Ninetales. If the setup move is dragon dance then I'll keep my mouth shut and allow the misinformation to spread.

Kingdra IS really good. He just isn't used properly whenever I see him.
Click to expand...

Are you implying that SubDD isn't a good set?
 
Virizion said:
Are you implying that SubDD isn't a good set?
Click to expand...
He's saying that a Rain Dance set is the best bet against sun, due to the power of chrolophyll abusers that easily outspeed Kingdra after a DD. Rain Dance can also be good to pull off a last minute rain dance if Ninetales dies. Also, Ninetales carries Will-O-Wisp with a max speed Timid EV spread, allowing it to burn Kingdra before it gets to Sub / DD.
 
Pocket said:
Double Dance Kingdra with Lum perhaps?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was about to post. However, once you DD and absorb Will-o-Wisp, your next move (Rain Dance on a switch, or Outrage if they stay in) requires a spot-on prediction, as it depends on their team and their playstyle.
 
Dual Screen teams are one of the most underrated, yet deadliest types of teams out there. Make most of your setup members hold Lum Berry and setup in the face of pretty much any opponent as the screens absorb usually strong attacks and the lum berry absorbs status. Too bad better pokemon don't get infiltrator.

Anyway, I've used dual screen Deoxys with Virizion as my backup dual screener. Espeon is also awesome when it comes to dual screening due to Magic Bounce. Volcarona, Dnite, and Kingdra are awesome pokemon together under screens. D-nite for bulk and physical sweeping. Volcarona for special. and then Kingdra if you happen to face a rain team.
 
I was talking about specially oriented Mixed Rain Dance LO Kingdra, which is imho its best anti-weather set. Do not understimate 95 Base SpA with these kinds of STAB : DM OHKOes defensive Rotom-A, does a big number on even defensive Politoed and Hydro Pump deals more than 60% min to SpD Jirachi under rain.

Considering he walls Ninetales and OHKOes the remainder of a sun team, there isn't much they can do. Should Ninetales stay in to WoW Kingdra as he RD, you get a free Hydro Pump on the switch-in (guaranteeing a 2HKO at the very least), and don't really need Waterfall for anything else than Blissey anyway.

He actually worked wonders on my HO team, as it not only covers Sun, Drizzle Genies and helps against Excadrill, but sweeps everything once Ferrothorn is gone and bulky waters are weakened.

@Virizion : completely off-topic, but I find your avatar + signature combination deliciously ironic.
 
One problem about using Kingdra against the sun: Hydro Pump's power is halved. You'd have trouble KOing Heatran, and even Volcorona with that. You could fire off Draco Meteors, but that just makes Kingdra raped by Heatran more. Not to mention your gonna get revenged by Venusaur anyways. If you want Kingdra as an anti-sun poke, then it really has no choice but to carry Rain Dance.
 
Yes, double dance and mixed rain dance screw sun over badly if you ever manage to get kingdra in on Ninetales. I faced a few of those this morning actually.

That's what kingdra should usually be going for. Chesto rest doesn't work without rain as well as it used to.

I am also in love with CM sigilyph as one of my dual screen abusers.
 
The rating is inflating like crazy. I think I actually dropped in the leader board position despite gaining points :0. Or maybe I didn't gain as much points as I thought; I don't check it too often.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one using Virizion as a screener. One of the two legal Deoxys forms probably does it better but I like having Virizion as a healthy medium between the two. It's faster than Deoxys-D, bulkier than Deoxys-S, but has a worse defensive typing then both :(

And on Kingdra, I agree with alphatron on this one, Chesto rest just isn't as good as it used to be since the Drizzle nerf, and definitely not against Sun with Volcarona's on just about every Sun team. Kingdra does well against mostly everything on Sun teams but Volcarona unless you lock yourself into Outrage, I'm guessing Lum berry?
 
Not sure how exactly Virizion has worse defensive typing when the only thing Deoxys resists is Psychic and Fighting. Water, Ground, Grass, Electric, and Rock resists are actually quite useful, especially with screens buffering its average defense and already stellar SpD.
 
Virizion has a pretty good typing, I don't understand what you're talking about nkululeko. IcyMan's right about the typing thing; Deoxys-S is used because it outspeeds literally everything, not because of it's typing. Deoxys-D is used for supreme bulk, and can set up Dual Screens and also set up SR and/or Spikes w/o dying too quickly like Deoxys-S.
 
Deoxys-s wants to faint quickly. This way you don't have to switch and you don't have to waste screen turns. Deoxys can also get 2 turns against almost anything where with Virizion you might not depending on what you are facing.
 
It depends on the situation, Deoyxs is much better at just doing it and dying so you bring in something to sweep or whatever the hell you want, while virizon on the other hand just becomes a tank that sits in a chills all day. Not having any real form of recovery isn't the best when it comes to a screener assuming that you will be having light which you should have. Pairing it up with a pokemon with wish could work although because of it's typing it doesn't match up with some good passers like mence and jirachi since they share common weaknesses. Virizon is just better offensive, although screening is interesting.
 
IcyMan28 said:
Not sure how exactly Virizion has worse defensive typing when the only thing Deoxys resists is Psychic and Fighting. Water, Ground, Grass, Electric, and Rock resists are actually quite useful, especially with screens buffering its average defense and already stellar SpD.
Click to expand...

TheMasterOfOz said:
Virizion has a pretty good typing, I don't understand what you're talking about nkululeko. IcyMan's right about the typing thing; Deoxys-S is used because it outspeeds literally everything, not because of it's typing. Deoxys-D is used for supreme bulk, and can set up Dual Screens and also set up SR and/or Spikes w/o dying too quickly like Deoxys-S.
Click to expand...

Weaknesses, Deoxys has three, Virizion has 5, one 4x weakness, and one boosted by Sun, I think that sort of evens things out to personal opinion tbh. And I know why the different Deoxys formes are used. I was comparing it to what I think are better screeners, Virizion's selling points are essentially a hybrid of the two formes with more weaknesses, that's what I meant.

Edit: Hopefully we all get that Deoxys has better screening capabilities. Base 90 sp atk and STAB Giga Drain isn't too reliable for recovery, Deoxys-S buys just enough turns to get both screens (bar Fake Out), and Deoxys-D needs a bulky partner (given screens) to come in on something. What's Virizion do? Pray there aren't any Flying attacks (usually aren't) and packs an answer to Sun teams (Sun boosted Fire is scary even with screens) and you should be straight.
 
I've seen a rise in trick room teams. Dang things are so tough to stop once they get it going, since I use fast pokemon like the current metagame as to outspeed relevant threats.
 
I have'nt seen one TR team. However I have seen a lot of Smashpassing or DS Espeon around whch is kinda annoying to play around.
 
Superpower: 120 + 80 + 53 = 253 + 36 = 289

Brick break:75 + 75 + 75 = 225 + 75 = 300

Only by the 4th turn, birck break is stronger. When is scizor in for 4 turns?

Always use superpower.
 
my point was breaking the dual screens :)
and i would use brick break on the bulky boosting set...

bullet punch
swords dance
brick break
roost.

noo?
 
But it loses defense each turn it uses it, and has weaker other attacks.

So it's not unequivocally better for four turns.
 
Eggbert said:
Deoxys-s wants to faint quickly. This way you don't have to switch and you don't have to waste screen turns. Deoxys can also get 2 turns against almost anything where with Virizion you might not depending on what you are facing.
Click to expand...

Or you could just use dual-Screen Latios with Memento.. People expect an offensive set so they'll likely switch out to a slow-ish wall, allowing you get a free Screen up on the switch and another against their wall. Memento, of course, is to force a switch to help something set-up (I personally use it alongside Dragonite or Scrafty).

Your only attack should be Draco Meteor. You have about 296 SpA while uninvested with a neutral nature, so it can do a bit of damage if you ever need it. I'd suggest Recover over Memento, but your point was to get your Screener off the field as quick as possible, so..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top