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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Eggbert said:
I rarely find time to use nasty plot on Thundurus, especially with all the residual damage and lack of places to set up. Something like leftovers, sub + 3 attacks is probably more effective as you can still hit the switch in twice most of the time but you can also stop scarfers and Excadrill. Also invest enough hp to tank Jirachi body slams.
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I am actually going to try out an all-out attack Expert Belt set in Rain for Thundurus, with Grass Knot being the 4th move. Other than Chansey / Blissey, I think it can pretty much break through everything. There's Jirachi, but it wouldn't enjoy taking Thunders.
 
Pocket said:
I am actually going to try out an all-out attack Expert Belt set in Rain for Thundurus, with Grass Knot being the 4th move. Other than Chansey / Blissey, I think it can pretty much break through everything. There's Jirachi, but it wouldn't enjoy taking Thunders.
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Hammer Arm is a viable option to get past the pink eggs. The Speed drop stops your "sweep", but since you aren't even setting up anyway, that's not a very big issue. Just switch out and then back in in another favorable moment.
 
bluemon said:
and then specs tornadus can clean up.
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I don't know, the full offense Thundurus sounds like it could work. You'd obviously expect to see three moves and some status move, the extra attacking move could catch someone by surprise. But then again, somethings don't really bring that much reward even with the surprise factors, like CB Leafeon.

Edit:@Deaga SR and Sandstorm make 20-ish percent of your battles a complete nightmare for Thundurus.
 
Sort of derailing the discussion, but MixNite is a complete boss; it rips holes in so many teams and the only pokemon that stands a chance at completely walling its moveset is Porygon2 -- and it's hit for SE by Superpower.

Thundurus is a neat sweeper and I've run all-out-attacking sets before. They don't really work. Thundurus gets a lot of setup chances, but with only HP Ice to hit Ground or Grass types, and it not actually having a boosting option, it's easily revenged/walled and it's not killing stuff. Yeah, it's decent cleanup, but NP Thundurus is better and doesn't rely as much on the rest of the team. Thundurus just doesn't have the sheer power to be going Expert Belt without a boosting move.

It's still a good revenger though and can sweep weakened teams, but... Starmie sort of does that better, and takes better advantage of Rain too.
 
Woodchuck said:
Sort of derailing the discussion, but MixNite is a complete boss; it rips holes in so many teams and the only pokemon that stands a chance at completely walling its moveset is Porygon2 -- and it's hit for SE by Superpower.
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Totally agree. ;)

Kyurem is probably the only reason to use Hail. I've found that excadrill, Gliscor, and Heatran work well for hail. I use ferrothorn for spikes. The only major issue I've had with the team is conkeldurr and some Heatran. Kyurem destroys those sharpedo HO teams I've been seeing and drag mag has no chance.

Any way I can fix the conk and Heatran weakness? Gliscor just isn't enough.

Edit: thanks Masterofoz. i'll try it out over Gliscor or something else. It seems to fit better. ;)
 
You could try a Slowbro, destroys Conkelldur because it's slower and Payback does nothing. It can take some of Heatran's hits. If you're more worried about Heatran than Conkelldur, you could try running a Slowking, it still would probably be able to take on Conkelldur.
 
Run Slowking, yeah. Conkeldurr still can't beat you and now you stand a chance against heatran in sunlight.

Tentacruel is great, but if he's your answer to drought, then you're out on your ass. He doesn't do anything to stop them.

Moltres is an excellent fire and fighting resist for hail, providing ground immunity too. He runs an nice pressure stall set and unlike heatran, he doesn't lose to excadrill regardless of weather.

Man up and run the spin support. Doesn't lose to hp ground volcorona either.
 
I've been using sub roost thunder wave dragonite to phaze and max defense impish standard spikes skarm, is there a third member who can complete the core and set up sr?
 
AceTrainerJason said:
I've been using sub roost thunder wave dragonite to phaze and max defense impish standard spikes skarm, is there a third member who can complete the core and set up sr?
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You could try a Celebi w/ T-Wave and Stealth Rock. It can beat pokemon like Thundurus that give your current core problems. It also beats stuff like Rotom-W that can burn Dragonite. The only major problem would be Starmie, but Celebi can take one, and Dragonite can phaze it away and take an Ice Beam w/ Multiscale.
 
Well, 404HP/236SpD Celebi takes 73.27% - 86.63% from +2 HP Ice. Assuming LO the damage calcs roll up to 95.05% - 112.38%. Not the best thing in the world to check Thundurus. It's no Gastrodon that's for sure.
 
try a specially defensive Celebi - you have Skarmory for physical coverage. Give it at least 297 Special Defense.
 
toybox said:
Well, 404HP/236SpD Celebi takes 73.27% - 86.63% from +2 HP Ice. Assuming LO the damage calcs roll up to 95.05% - 112.38%. Not the best thing in the world to check Thundurus. It's no Gastrodon that's for sure.
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Really wish there was some way to check the usage of pokemon by sets. It seems like we're verifying checks/counters of the pokemon Thundurus based on the possibility that one set Thundurus admittedly runs a lot forces a switch and sets up. I know it's common but the are other sets to worry about, not as dangerous up front but it's almost as if we're forgetting that it can kill your hazard setting Celebi plan with a priority taunt.

@Pocket How much are you investing in Sp Def, because a Celebi with no Sp Atk investment can't take a Thundurus.
 
Well currently I am using 404 HP / 308 SDef Celebi. T-Wave Thundurus to cripple it. No amount of SAtk would let Celebi kill Thundurus, although Psychic or HP Ice may come in handy to break Substitute. Lum Thundurus would be bad news for Celebi, though. Gastrodon may be a more reliable member for that Skarmory - Dragonite core.
 
Nkululeko said:
Really wish there was some way to check the usage of pokemon by sets. It seems like we're verifying checks/counters of the pokemon Thundurus based on the possibility that one set Thundurus admittedly runs a lot forces a switch and sets up. I know it's common but the are other sets to worry about, not as dangerous up front but it's almost as if we're forgetting that it can kill your hazard setting Celebi plan with a priority taunt.

@Pocket How much are you investing in Sp Def, because a Celebi with no Sp Atk investment can't take a Thundurus.
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There's a way; some usage statistics have included more detailed information like what percentage run specific moves or items. Which just means we should get those statistics.
 
I agree with Nkululeko, that would be really helpful. I mean, Pokemon Online's forum has them (based on their server of course), so why can't we?
 
I'm quite surprised to see Kingdra this low in usage, considering he's probably the single best anti-weather pokemon. He singlehandedly destroys sun by setting up on Ninetales and OHKOing everything on a sun team. Against rain, he comes very handy as the perfect revenge killer (especially against the genies), and not much can stop it once you got rid of Ferrothorn.


I haven't played since the server went down, but I had a decent heavy offensive team back then (1350), focused on breaking through bulky waters and (to a lesser extent) steels. Cloyster was obviously the MVP, but Moxie Bounce Gyarados was also surprisingly effective : it seems that most teams aren't as prepared against offensive Gyara since Ferrothorn/Excadrill caused its decline. Because of how easy it is to force a sac with HO, Moxie is an invaluable asset and make so many sweeps possible.
The biggest threats to HO are probably Drought, Excadrill and Thundurus, but despite their large presence, I feel like HO is much more viable than it used to be. I couldn't get past 1350 because of how hard the Genies raped my team, but one solid enough to effectively cover these three threats could definitely reach the top 10.
 
I've been using dual screens and special sweeping and it's actually really effective now for a number of reasons. I used the same strategy sometimes in 4th gen and it works better now, even with stuff like Excadrill and chloro. Now you have stronger, more lethal sweepers like Volcarona and Reuniclus who can rip most teams apart under screens. Deoxys is the best screener in the game. Except against scarf Terrakion you will pretty much be going first all of the time so really only taunt Thundurus (rare) can stop you from setting up. Scarfers aren't seen as much in BW OU, where in DPP OU almost every kind of team could use a scarfer. However stuff like the Genies and Excadrill does make this very difficult if screens aren't up, but there are special attackers who can set up on Excadrill believe it or not.
 
By setting up on Ninetales, what specifically do you mean? I know the full extent of kingdra's damage against sun. But I want to know what move you'd have him use against Ninetales. If the setup move is dragon dance then I'll keep my mouth shut and allow the misinformation to spread.

Kingdra IS really good. He just isn't used properly whenever I see him.
 
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