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Metagame NP: RU Stage 2.5: Kids (READ POST #265)
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
I dont think that Stall will be rise after Shuckle ban (also stall is viable rn); since Stall does usually well against Sticky Web teams or at least Shuckle is pretty useless against defensive teams since you're playing with 5 mons pretty much, Shuckle only loses momentum against a stall team for Wish/Defog etc so in any case with any other offensive mon over Shuckle should work better against Stall teams, since this defensive teams are already slows so Sticky Web is pretty useless usually although stall teams have weakness against certain threats in stall teams but Shuckle is more about deadweight.
Bulky Offense teams will rise for sure if Shuckle gets banned specially the ones which lacks of spin/defog since these teams are totally ruined by Sticky Web teams and overall this teams are pretty solid against the rest of stuff, just more diversity imo
Either that^ or TR
TR is pretty good right now with stuff like Cofag, Slowking, Reuni, Bronzong and Aroma as setters and Escavalier, Abomasnow-M, Druddigon and heck even stuff like Clawitizer and Exploud, as well as the aforementioned Cofag, Slowking and Reuni to abuse it.
Also doesn't give a fuck about Sticky Web since that helps it outspeed stuff.
Also dont underestimate the powers of OTR Aromatisse
TR is pretty good right now with stuff like Cofag, Slowking, Reuni, Bronzong and Aroma as setters and Escavalier, Abomasnow-M, Druddigon and heck even stuff like Clawitizer and Exploud, as well as the aforementioned Cofag, Slowking and Reuni to abuse it.
Also doesn't give a fuck about Sticky Web since that helps it outspeed stuff.
The ladder went up right now.
Ah alright, sorry i completely forgot about that :x
EDIT: i'm disappointed at the level of activity in this np thread tbh, honestly this is the thread that should be the most active at the moment, especially with such an important suspect test x.x. Does anyone have any thoughts at all about the metagame? They don't even really need to be about the suspect in question, just think about current metagame trends, things you've seen more/less of, underrated threats, etc. Has anyone been using anything interesting to counter the growing number of Sticky Web teams?
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Mantine is good. I use Mantine. You all should use Mantine.
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Defog
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Defog
I was having such trouble with some sticky web teams that I ended up putting defog on my specs Yanmega as sort of like a last resort to get rid of webs and rocks. Ofc this is by no means a counter and I'm sure there are some good ones out there, the most notable of which would probably be trick room. Also I cant wait for this suspect test to be over and done with. I'm getting tired of seeing these cookie cutter teams every battle of Shuckle, Doublade, Braviary, Hitmonlee, Exploud, Filler. It is beginning to make the meta a little stale for me.
So the Sigilyph ban has just happened in NU and right now im seeing a lot of sigi's come into RU. It used to just be the occasional Cosmic Power one which was easily delt with. Now I am seeing offensive ones, and honestly they are quite terrifying. In fact its like a slightly weaker Delphox with access to lots more coverage. It also has two things over delphox, being Magic Guard (immunity to rocks and life orb) and flying type (immunity to sticky web). The first couple of matches i played against it I didnt give it the respect it deserved and it gave me a lot of trouble. I think Sigi will fit in quite nicely however, seeing as there are some pretty good fast electric types like Jolteon to provide good checks. If you haven't tried out offensive Sigilyph yet I would recommend giving it a whirl.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Yanmega is real good in web meta. Also scyther. Imma c+p because wynaut:
It kills Hitmonlee. It can set up (once) on shuckle. It can setup and pass on doublade. It can kill non-scarf braviary. It can kill Exploud. It can kill zangoose. Works best with trap/avest lopunny and defog support to get rid of fuckle.
Scyther has been quite overlooked this generation, but its deceptively great bulk, blazing speed, offensive synergy with common mons, and flexibility make it a definite underdog. To expedite this post, I'll break it up into a couple of Scyther sets, analysis style:
Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Spd / 40 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Baton Pass / Brick Break
- Roost
This is the set that I find most suited to the current RU meta, and the one that I have been using the most. Scyther has an incredible amount of setup opportunities with this set. It can realistically setup on more than half of the S/A ranks 1v1. If the opponent is coming on on a switch/on the revenge, it can tank an even more impressive quantity.
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 264-312 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 282-332 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 260-307 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 273-322 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And let's keep in mind that these are some of the strongest common STAB Supereffective attacks in RU. In terms of general tankiness:
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 146-173 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 142-169 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 192-229 (57.3 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 181-214 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs ExploudBoomburst vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 237-279 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This, backed by STAB Technician Aerial Ace off of a likely +2 attack makes Scyther very threatening to common mons. Perhaps the most interesting part of this set is the third moveslot with Baton Pass / Brick Break. Scyther can choose Brick Break to take on a more traditional bulky sweeping role. It allows it to better handle Registeel, Electric Types, and Rhyperior (good luck with most of those). The almost universally greater option is to forego this coverage in favor of Baton Pass. With this move, Scyther's utility goes through the roof. It can not only support its teammates with a +2 attack pass, it also increases its sweeping potential exponentially by allowing it to essentially tap out when faced with something that resists flying/can threaten a 2hko. This is where those previous calcs come into play. If something like Jolteon comes in to revenge Scyther, it can tank a hit if it is healthy and pass to another mon who can continue the sweep, likely with a free turn. This process is even more dangerous when Scyther is faced with a mon that it can outspeed (ie. almost the entire tier). It can pass out of something like Moltres into, say, Sharpedo or Rhyperior. The opponent must now sack either Moltres, likely one of their few Scyther checks, or probably get nearly swept. If the former occurs, than Scyther is still healthy and ready to repeat. In the event that Scyther is slower than the opposing threat, Scyther itself will be crippled, but a gain is made in that the pass recipient will come in unscathed and ready to sweep.
As evidenced by the popularity of Vivillion as a point of interest, mono-flying coverage is pretty great in RU. Frequently, Scyther will be able to do quite a bit of work on its own simply with a boosted Aerial Ace.
Scyther @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- U-turn / Swords Dance
- Knock Off / Brick Break
- Aerial Ace
- Quick Attack / Brick Break
It can also take a more active role as an offensive pivot. This set takes greater advantage of that beautiful base 105 speed by using Scyther as a nightmare to many offensive teams, Sticky Web included. This set is more self-explanatory than the first, so I will keep things brief, but Scyther threatens generally the same things as before, except it has a far greater emphasis on individualized sweeping. It is perhaps more threatening to Sticky Web Offense than the first set, but it doesn't fare as well as the bulky varients in the typical metagame.
Scyther also has a number of other cool options. It does have access to defog, though it does not mesh well with its SR weakness. It could possibly run a full-on defensive set with its fighting resistance, high speed, and natural bulk doing wonders for stallish teams. Even Endure-Reversal is a possibility. The fact that it is unaffected by Sticky Webs, in a similar vein to Yanmega, makes it incredibly valuable in the current meta. Pairing it up with mons like Cobalion can allow for either a cool volt-turn core, or a devestating SD-Pass core, as Cobalion can easily tank any of the physical attacks, particularly rock moves, that are being used against a weakened Scyther.
It kills Hitmonlee. It can set up (once) on shuckle. It can setup and pass on doublade. It can kill non-scarf braviary. It can kill Exploud. It can kill zangoose. Works best with trap/avest lopunny and defog support to get rid of fuckle.
Scyther has been quite overlooked this generation, but its deceptively great bulk, blazing speed, offensive synergy with common mons, and flexibility make it a definite underdog. To expedite this post, I'll break it up into a couple of Scyther sets, analysis style:
Ability: Technician
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Spd / 40 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Baton Pass / Brick Break
- Roost
This is the set that I find most suited to the current RU meta, and the one that I have been using the most. Scyther has an incredible amount of setup opportunities with this set. It can realistically setup on more than half of the S/A ranks 1v1. If the opponent is coming on on a switch/on the revenge, it can tank an even more impressive quantity.
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 264-312 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 282-332 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Air Slash vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 260-307 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 273-322 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And let's keep in mind that these are some of the strongest common STAB Supereffective attacks in RU. In terms of general tankiness:
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 146-173 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 142-169 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 192-229 (57.3 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Scyther: 181-214 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs ExploudBoomburst vs. 216 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 237-279 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This, backed by STAB Technician Aerial Ace off of a likely +2 attack makes Scyther very threatening to common mons. Perhaps the most interesting part of this set is the third moveslot with Baton Pass / Brick Break. Scyther can choose Brick Break to take on a more traditional bulky sweeping role. It allows it to better handle Registeel, Electric Types, and Rhyperior (good luck with most of those). The almost universally greater option is to forego this coverage in favor of Baton Pass. With this move, Scyther's utility goes through the roof. It can not only support its teammates with a +2 attack pass, it also increases its sweeping potential exponentially by allowing it to essentially tap out when faced with something that resists flying/can threaten a 2hko. This is where those previous calcs come into play. If something like Jolteon comes in to revenge Scyther, it can tank a hit if it is healthy and pass to another mon who can continue the sweep, likely with a free turn. This process is even more dangerous when Scyther is faced with a mon that it can outspeed (ie. almost the entire tier). It can pass out of something like Moltres into, say, Sharpedo or Rhyperior. The opponent must now sack either Moltres, likely one of their few Scyther checks, or probably get nearly swept. If the former occurs, than Scyther is still healthy and ready to repeat. In the event that Scyther is slower than the opposing threat, Scyther itself will be crippled, but a gain is made in that the pass recipient will come in unscathed and ready to sweep.
As evidenced by the popularity of Vivillion as a point of interest, mono-flying coverage is pretty great in RU. Frequently, Scyther will be able to do quite a bit of work on its own simply with a boosted Aerial Ace.
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- U-turn / Swords Dance
- Knock Off / Brick Break
- Aerial Ace
- Quick Attack / Brick Break
It can also take a more active role as an offensive pivot. This set takes greater advantage of that beautiful base 105 speed by using Scyther as a nightmare to many offensive teams, Sticky Web included. This set is more self-explanatory than the first, so I will keep things brief, but Scyther threatens generally the same things as before, except it has a far greater emphasis on individualized sweeping. It is perhaps more threatening to Sticky Web Offense than the first set, but it doesn't fare as well as the bulky varients in the typical metagame.
Scyther also has a number of other cool options. It does have access to defog, though it does not mesh well with its SR weakness. It could possibly run a full-on defensive set with its fighting resistance, high speed, and natural bulk doing wonders for stallish teams. Even Endure-Reversal is a possibility. The fact that it is unaffected by Sticky Webs, in a similar vein to Yanmega, makes it incredibly valuable in the current meta. Pairing it up with mons like Cobalion can allow for either a cool volt-turn core, or a devestating SD-Pass core, as Cobalion can easily tank any of the physical attacks, particularly rock moves, that are being used against a weakened Scyther.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Ru has higher speed tiers, though. And tbh, delphox has all the coverage that it really needs.
I'd say that sigi has a niche in the sticky meta because it's immune to sr and webs, but it doesn't like quite a few web threats (ie. doublade), and it can only find setup opportunity through scary predicts (trying to force out lee and hoping it doesn't just knock off. even then doublade stops any sweeping)
It seems like a bit more trouble than it's worth
I haven't really posted my thoughts about Shuckle except a few lines in the Froslass suspect thread, but I never went into detail, so here goes.
Shuckle turned from an ignored or not-so-seen threat to being so common and centralizing that it had to have a suspect test in about a week thanks to Froslass's suspect and how well Shuckle Offense fared against that. Sticky Web is also so good in RU because it lets scary wallbreakers like Exploud and Hitmonlee, whose speed is one of their biggest flaws, turn into such huge threats that can easily go through any team without much effort. Shuckle also effortlessly sets up SR and SW and can consistently continue to do throughout the game, all the while not being set up fodder thanks to Encore. And thanks to its bulk, it's almost impossible to OHKO it (especially since it can have sturdy) without CB Rock Blast Rhyperior or hoping for a flinch with Iron Head something, and that makes Shuckle guaranteed to set up Sticky Web and/or Rocks.
During the Froslass suspect, you only came up mostly against two teams, while running against occasional stall/trick room, and those two teams were Froslass Offense and Shuckle Offense. I won't be talking about the former seeing how Froslass got the boot, but I'll continue on talking about the latter. It made teambuilding require no skill whatsoever and made it very stale, since it's pretty much only Shuckle / Hitmonlee / Doublade / Braviary / filler (exploud) / filler (anything). Doublade is one of the best spinblockers in the tier atm, preventing spins from the likes of the Hitmons and such, and Braviary scares defoggers away with its incredible attack and ability to pretty much stop any defogger except Shiftry, and possibly kill them. Hitmonlee is a nuke with High Jump Kick and provides spinning support for the team, and the fillers can be any wallbreakers or sweepers, including Exploud, Jolteon, Yanmega, Sharpedo, or anything else. You can build a Shuckle Offense in 5 teams and still do so well with it.
So yeah, between Sticky Web being extremely good in RU and Shuckle being so centralizing and guaranteed to set up its hazards and able to do so continuously throughout the game, I think its definitely a Pokemon thats very bad for the metagame and needs to go asap, and we'll see how the meta evolves afterwards with other sticky web setters if they see usage after the potential ban, even though I don't think they're as good since all of them (Masquerain, Leavanny, Ariados and maybe a couple others) don't have Stealth Rock, can't guarantee Webs thanks to having to use Focus Sash instead of Mental Herb, and can't consistently set up Webs throughout the match.
edit:
edit: after double checking, it doesn't kill with Heat Wave:
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 212 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 268-317 (85.8 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
needs SR for a 50% chance to kill, so yeah. Doublade is still shaky at countering/checking sigilyph though.
Shuckle turned from an ignored or not-so-seen threat to being so common and centralizing that it had to have a suspect test in about a week thanks to Froslass's suspect and how well Shuckle Offense fared against that. Sticky Web is also so good in RU because it lets scary wallbreakers like Exploud and Hitmonlee, whose speed is one of their biggest flaws, turn into such huge threats that can easily go through any team without much effort. Shuckle also effortlessly sets up SR and SW and can consistently continue to do throughout the game, all the while not being set up fodder thanks to Encore. And thanks to its bulk, it's almost impossible to OHKO it (especially since it can have sturdy) without CB Rock Blast Rhyperior or hoping for a flinch with Iron Head something, and that makes Shuckle guaranteed to set up Sticky Web and/or Rocks.
During the Froslass suspect, you only came up mostly against two teams, while running against occasional stall/trick room, and those two teams were Froslass Offense and Shuckle Offense. I won't be talking about the former seeing how Froslass got the boot, but I'll continue on talking about the latter. It made teambuilding require no skill whatsoever and made it very stale, since it's pretty much only Shuckle / Hitmonlee / Doublade / Braviary / filler (exploud) / filler (anything). Doublade is one of the best spinblockers in the tier atm, preventing spins from the likes of the Hitmons and such, and Braviary scares defoggers away with its incredible attack and ability to pretty much stop any defogger except Shiftry, and possibly kill them. Hitmonlee is a nuke with High Jump Kick and provides spinning support for the team, and the fillers can be any wallbreakers or sweepers, including Exploud, Jolteon, Yanmega, Sharpedo, or anything else. You can build a Shuckle Offense in 5 teams and still do so well with it.
So yeah, between Sticky Web being extremely good in RU and Shuckle being so centralizing and guaranteed to set up its hazards and able to do so continuously throughout the game, I think its definitely a Pokemon thats very bad for the metagame and needs to go asap, and we'll see how the meta evolves afterwards with other sticky web setters if they see usage after the potential ban, even though I don't think they're as good since all of them (Masquerain, Leavanny, Ariados and maybe a couple others) don't have Stealth Rock, can't guarantee Webs thanks to having to use Focus Sash instead of Mental Herb, and can't consistently set up Webs throughout the match.
edit:
It can take a Shadow Sneak from Doublade (though it does a lot 72.09% - 84.5%) and kill with Heat Wave, but yeah, I see your point. LO Sigilyph is something I've had my eyes on for a while and always wanted to use, but never really did. It shouldn't really set up against Hitmonlee though, no reason not to go for Psychic/Psyshock, thats just an unnecessarily risky play lol.
edit: after double checking, it doesn't kill with Heat Wave:
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 212 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 268-317 (85.8 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
needs SR for a 50% chance to kill, so yeah. Doublade is still shaky at countering/checking sigilyph though.
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Sigilyph gets access to heat wave and if Doublade is your switch in, it will get hit hard by that and be easily 2hko'd. Also you dont need to set up, the 4 coverage moves, or the 3 coverage move with roost sigi sets work just fine. Even without webs sigi still has enough speed to outpace some very scary mid tier threats.
Not going to lie to anyone i am using sticky web teams to get reqs.
Despite the fact that most Sticky Web teams are essentially the same thus strategy has the tools to win against almost any playstyle. EVERY SINGLE POKEMON benefits from Sticky Web support and that means you can put anything you need in the last slot.
Have trouble with Stall? Taunt Drapion and SubBU Braviary are fantastic.
Have trouble with Trick Room? (you should not really just because Doublade can really do a ton against them) Add another Taunt user.
You can say they are matchup based how many times you want and it is true that most Sticky Web teams have trouble with Stall and TR but a well built one can get even around that.
I see Shuckle running more and more speed these days. Max Speed Shuckle (lol) outruns uninvested Doublade and any Escavalier ever really preventing them to flinch you and letting you setup Sticky Web AND Stealth Rock.
Also Sucker Punch Hitmonlee is really good on Sticky Web teams as it is a reliable way of 2HKOing Doublade in combo with Knock Off on the switch while dodging Sneak. It also does more to any Pokemon immune to sticky web (bar klinklang lol) and really helps revenge killing the threatening af yanmega and Moltres and random stuff that is becoming decently popular like Mismagius. Also does more on neutral hits so that's usable.
I also see a lot of Rotom-mow on the ladder as i guess people finally caught on how good it is in the current meta as a cool rhyperior switch in (and lure with expert belt) and somewhat troublesome for web teams to deal with.
Yanmega and Moltres are also really good thanks to their amazing offensive stats and flying typing.
Also this thread was probably inactive because analysis; ;;;;; :(
Despite the fact that most Sticky Web teams are essentially the same thus strategy has the tools to win against almost any playstyle. EVERY SINGLE POKEMON benefits from Sticky Web support and that means you can put anything you need in the last slot.
Have trouble with Stall? Taunt Drapion and SubBU Braviary are fantastic.
Have trouble with Trick Room? (you should not really just because Doublade can really do a ton against them) Add another Taunt user.
You can say they are matchup based how many times you want and it is true that most Sticky Web teams have trouble with Stall and TR but a well built one can get even around that.
I see Shuckle running more and more speed these days. Max Speed Shuckle (lol) outruns uninvested Doublade and any Escavalier ever really preventing them to flinch you and letting you setup Sticky Web AND Stealth Rock.
Also Sucker Punch Hitmonlee is really good on Sticky Web teams as it is a reliable way of 2HKOing Doublade in combo with Knock Off on the switch while dodging Sneak. It also does more to any Pokemon immune to sticky web (bar klinklang lol) and really helps revenge killing the threatening af yanmega and Moltres and random stuff that is becoming decently popular like Mismagius. Also does more on neutral hits so that's usable.
I also see a lot of Rotom-mow on the ladder as i guess people finally caught on how good it is in the current meta as a cool rhyperior switch in (and lure with expert belt) and somewhat troublesome for web teams to deal with.
Yanmega and Moltres are also really good thanks to their amazing offensive stats and flying typing.
Also this thread was probably inactive because analysis; ;;;;; :(
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Ah. I was thinking of Kadabra. Heat wave is good.
Also galbia, while I do think that shuckle/sticky web is broken in ru, it is definitely not unbeatable. Yes, sticjy web teams can adjust to beat stall or tr or etc., but so can those achetypes, and it's even more reasonable for them to do so in a meta where sticky web itself is so centralizing
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dark pulse, dazzling gleam, energy ball, heat wave, ice beam, psychic, psychock, shadow ball, signal beam is pretty much the coverage that sigi has access to. The only thing i wish it got was thunderbolt, but you can make do with the other ones.
You guys could try Archeops, particularly as a lead. It OHKOes non-sturdy Shuckle with Stone Edge (assuming 252/0 Shuckle, which seems to be the norm as people are talking about the increasing speed investment). Even if the opposing shuckle is sturdy, you will easily 2HKO barring the curse of stone miss, limiting it to either web or rocks, and most of the time people will put up the web first. Without another rock setter on the team, Archeops can do so much work, coming in without worrying about the web, outspeeding web teams bar priority, and not worrying about rocks putting it in defeatist range.
Well, I got voting reqs already (I am FROSLASS LOL), and I only played roughly 3 Sticky Web teams out of all of the games I did...literally the complete opposite of last round. Regardless, I'm still going to say that Shuckle is broken. The fact remains that it can set up Stealth Rock and Sticky Web easily, and is almost guaranteed to set up one of them due to Mental Herb, amazing defenses, and Sturdy. The amount of potent wallbreakers in the tier such as Exploud make Shuckle even more devastating, and Defog can even lead to opposing Pokemon such as Braviary being able to wreak havoc on one's team. Shuckle is way too good for this tier in my eyes. On a side note, I used Accelgor for my entire ladder run; I effectively just used the Sharpedo + Doublade + Hitmonlee core from last round and replaced Froslass with Accelgor. Accelgor is pretty good in the metagame right now, and while it is not as effective as Froslass, it is still pretty devastating, especially when combined with these extremely strong attackers. Encore is a nice move for Accelgor to have, while Final Gambit allows it to stop foes trying to Defog on it. This makes it even more deadly; Accelgor + this core is almost as threatening as Froslass + this core last round. Even though Accelgor isn't as good, it can still do the job very effectively.
At first while getting reqs, all i seemed to run into was shuckle teams. Then towards then end I ran into some variations without shuckle that still had Doublade and Braviary. I think that once Shuckle is gone web teams will not be a problem, but entry hazard teams/stall teams will still be deadly. With a lack of reliable defoggers in RU (minus a couple like Gligar) it is very hard to get hazards off the feed. Doublade spin blocks incredibly well and can beat most of the spinners in the tier barring Lee (even then with min max knock off damage and wish support you can beat Lee with doublade as well). Might start to see some things like foresight on spinners if teams with hazards start to become a problem.
http://puu.sh/9M3yd/f2d4b25ca7.jpg
Got reqs using a Toxic Spikes stall team, which was pretty easy since Sticky Web teams can't handle it too well. As for the suspect in question, Shuckle is pretty unhealthy for the metagame in my opinion, because of it's ability to set up Stealth Rocks and Sticky Web so well, as it's very abusable with the lack of good Defogers / Rapid Spinners in the tier, and there's a bunch of wall breakers that can really take advantage of the extra speed. Shuckle itself is the best Sticky Web setter, since it's not set up bait thanks to Encore, and can also set up Stealth Rocks, making it a very very good lead, and it can't be stopped due to Taunt. It's actually pretty funny, as Pawniard right now is getting quite a lot of usage due to it facing really well against Sticky Web teams (and in general being a boss), I think this alone kinda proves just how centralising Sticky Web is, so removing the best user of it I think is a good idea.
Molk edit: no shootingstarmie contrary to popular belief im not the only RU player, so considering im the only one who uses pawniard it isnt getting a lot of usage ;-;.
shootingstarmie edit: molk u suk
I'm pretty sure I'm going to vote ban for Shuckle.
Shout out to Molk for based team n_n
Got reqs using a Toxic Spikes stall team, which was pretty easy since Sticky Web teams can't handle it too well. As for the suspect in question, Shuckle is pretty unhealthy for the metagame in my opinion, because of it's ability to set up Stealth Rocks and Sticky Web so well, as it's very abusable with the lack of good Defogers / Rapid Spinners in the tier, and there's a bunch of wall breakers that can really take advantage of the extra speed. Shuckle itself is the best Sticky Web setter, since it's not set up bait thanks to Encore, and can also set up Stealth Rocks, making it a very very good lead, and it can't be stopped due to Taunt. It's actually pretty funny, as Pawniard right now is getting quite a lot of usage due to it facing really well against Sticky Web teams (and in general being a boss), I think this alone kinda proves just how centralising Sticky Web is, so removing the best user of it I think is a good idea.
Molk edit: no shootingstarmie contrary to popular belief im not the only RU player, so considering im the only one who uses pawniard it isnt getting a lot of usage ;-;.
shootingstarmie edit: molk u suk
I'm pretty sure I'm going to vote ban for Shuckle.
Shout out to Molk for based team n_n
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ok just wanted to say that sd zoroark is phenomenal in this meta. With all the shuckle teams on ladder i decided to utilize a strong priority core(zoro and lee) and so far its been working out p well. zoro also works well when disguised as lee cuz of how common doublade is and how easy it is to get a sd up when facing it
some calcs:
so yeah every1 should try out sd zoro cuz ohkoing hitmonlee is too much fun
n_n
some calcs:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 330-393 (102.4 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 242-286 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 372-438 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 242-286 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 372-438 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
so yeah every1 should try out sd zoro cuz ohkoing hitmonlee is too much fun
n_n
you can also be a real innovator like me and pair Zoroark with Gothorita who easily traps walls who can take a +2 hit. Amoonguss, Aromatisse, Alomomola,etc. are easily dispatched by Gothorita paving the way for a Zoroark sweep. Gothorita is also awesome against stall B)
EDIT: I got reqs using this team and i can say it has the tools to beat the stall teams that plague the ladder. Drapion absorbs Toxic Spikes and with Shuca Berry if you use SD on the switch in you can Grab another SD and 2HKO Gligar while it never 2HKOs. It also helps beating a weakened Rhyperior as you live the Earthquake and you can 2HKO at +2 you can also use Aqua Tail with Lum i guess but i prefer beating Registeel. The rest is really standard really. You can use Sucker Punch on lee to do more to Rotom, Braviary, and Yanmega and hit Mismagius. I run a positive nature on almost every mon in the team to win against other Sticky Web teams and on Drapion to ALWAYS beat Sharpedo 1v1 with Webs up. This team is disgustingly effective and really shows how broken Shuckle is. Threat #1 is Fletchinder but i guess you can deal with it with Exploud and Braviary somewhat.
Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Surf
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Infestation
Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- U-turn
- Superpower
Drapion @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
Hitmonlee (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Surf
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Infestation
Braviary (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- U-turn
- Superpower
Drapion @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
Hitmonlee (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
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hello
- Status