np: Stage 3 - Family Reunion ("This Is Why I Created" Remix)

Diana

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I've been trying a team with Manaphy, and it's been doing all right, but it seems to usually be other things doing well like Skymin and Manaphy rarely does much. It's been extremely underwhelming so far, maybe it will change later on when things are a little less focused though.

ScarfChomp seems to be the go-to set for Garchomp, it really makes a nice revenge killer, though it is slower than the Latis and Skymin with a scarf and still doesn't outspeed max deoxys-speed.

Speaking of Deoxys, it's everywhere, usually as a lead, either setting up entry hazards or being really annoying with Dual Screens. I've seen a couple cleaner ones though, and they're extremely effective like always.

Skymin is actually impressing me more than during the first test, it seemed really underwhelming back then, but things like LO Skymin and Scarfmin actually seem to do well. Scarfmin even outspeeds Deoxys, which is obviously next to impossible. I haven't personally tried the Subseeder or three-attack with sub sets, but it's only day 1 here, and I think 3 teams to try at once seems like enough to me.

Latias is almost nonexistant, but her brother Latios is there a lot. I've seen Specs and Scarf versions mostly, which is really helping in Dragon moves being everywhere. I actually tried a Calm Mind Latias and Calm Mind Latios, but neither really did much and I moved to the much more successful Choiced versions. The higher attack on Latios outweighs Latias' defense by by far in such a fast metagame though.

There's a few other Pokemon that seem to work here. Tyranitar is always good, can kill off a locked Lati among other things. Metagross and Scizor are good because of all the dragon moves around, and Scizor, like already mentioned, can chop off over half of Garchomp's HP. Metagross is a nice lead with Meteor Mash since it does a lot to Deoxys, and can still run an Agility set and sweep a weakened team. Magnezone thrives on the abundance of these steels, usually I've seen non-choiced ones though, opting for ones with Substitute, though I haven't seen Magnet Rise.

Outside of those, there's always Swampert, it really patched up a Metagross problem I had, deals with Heatran, and you can predict a Skymin switch a lot of the time and Ice Punch it down in one shot, it's happened at least three times in 16 battles so it's definitely there. Speaking of Heatran, even with so much resisting its Fire Blast, it's still good, hitting Skymin and Steels with Fire Blast and Dragons with Dragon Pulse. Mamoswine has Ice Shard to hit all those Dragons and the Steels outside of Scizor are weak to Earthquake, also making it worthy. Jirachi is usually a lead, but even with a Scarf it's not outspeeding Deoxys. Not like Deoxys enjoys being Tricked or hit with Iron Head though.

Okay, so that may have been long but I just typed down what I saw so far, let's see if this all lasts for now.
 
Deoxys-e is easily countered by Tyranitar. Crunch will break the Sash, then it will die from the sand. Pursuit can be used as well in case of a switch.

I've been handling Garchomp a bit overexcessively, using ScarfSkymin, Agiligross with Ice Punch and Ice Shard Mamoswine. They all deal with Skymin too.
 

Diana

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This is why I run Superpower when I use Deoxys-e. Beats anything but the odd Sash lead.
 

Coronis

Impressively round
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Of course you can, I think a lot of people would be interested in how that team would fare.
 

Diana

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You do reliese Tyranitar has Pursuit don't you? That means if Deoxys can die from Stealth Rock damage when it switches back in.
I totally forgot about Pursuit.. Okay, I'm an idiot. At least my typical leads are steels... >>;

Actually, two Latis on a team can work, I actually have trouble countering both in one shot.
 

Hipmonlee

Have a nice day
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I have both latis on my team, and it is working great. One softens up the counters, then the other sweeps.

Or that is the idea anyway..

I have found that in the interest of testing fairly, I am going to have to play some OU to see how Latias really is..

Have a nice day.
 

remlabmez

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Well here is my 1 day evaluation of this thing, and I know this is going to last a while so I am sure the metagame will change. I do like the new fast paced metagame as it makes things interesting, as far as the suspect that has been doing a lot of sweeping and giving me wins are actually garchomp and skymin which is kind of a shock to me. As it stands right now I do feel all of these belong in uber tier including latios/latios. Like pana said its just all about steel and dragon centralization right now.

I also tried running stall but it didnt turn out that great, I do feel that stall can be viable it will just take an amazing thought out team and very good use of the team as dealing with all these huge suspect threats are pretty hard. In my games I hardly found time to setup SR, spikes and stuff like that because of all the anti deo-e pokemon runnign around stuff just hitting way to hard.
 
Early impressions:

Garchomp is good, but definately manageable. Yache has failed every time either I or an opponent has tried it due to the abundance of dragon scarfers. Scarf is a pretty good set, and seems to be the standard for now.

Skymin is probably one of the more popular suspects, and is has been fairly effective so far, but far from uber. Scizor makes a great check for it, it can be easily EVed to take 40% or so max from leftover/scarf Skymin's Air Slash.

Latios is pretty popular, and incredibly dangerous. So far, I feel that it's probably the most uber of the suspects, although there's still time for plenty to change.

Latias is pretty rare, and used in more or less the same way as on the standard ladder. Overshadowed by Latios so far.

Deoxys, suprisingly, has been fairly easy to deal with so far. The entry hazard lead does pretty badly against the standard Metagross, getting 2HKOed by Meteor Mash+Bullet Punch, and I've been running Brick Break in the Earthquake/Explosion slot to deal with the screener, although I've only seen that once or twice so far. The late-game sweeper/revenge killer set looks like it's going to be the most dangerous for now. I've only seen it once so far, but it was tricky to deal with.

Manaphy has been pretty average. I've seen a couple on rain teams, and a couple on more balanced teams, and both times they've been easy to deal with. Skymin is everywhere at the moment, and it absolutely destroys Manaphy.

As for the meta on the whole, I don't really like what I'm seeing so far. The main problem seems to be Lati@s, maybe with Garchomp as a minor offender, as the dragon+steel type centralisation is pretty ridiculous. Specs Latios in particular is a nightmare to deal with for more balanced teams, I've seen quite a few resorting to running a Blissey to deal with the Lati@s twins and Skymin.
 
Well, YacheChomp is obviously still very effective if you go against someone who relies on faster ice attacks to take you out, but there's a lot more ways to revenge kill Garchomp reliably now. CB Scizor and Skymin can both take out a YacheChomp that's taken some residual damage, Lati@s outspeeds and can OHKO, ScarfChomp is everywhere and outspeeds for the KO. YacheChomp is just a lot easier to stop than it once was.
 
Ugh, Garchomps and Deo-es are everywere... just like ~1 year ago. I don't understand people who say that Garchomp is more manageable right now, its still ridiculously powerful no matter what set it runs. My CBChomp usually nets 2 kills per match. Oh, and don't forget Sand Viel. I always seem to miss enemy Chomp at the worst moment. :/

To sum up, I don't like this metagame at all, but I'm going to test more.
 

Diana

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Yache Chomp can work, but so far it looks like people are trying to revenge-kill it with a faster Dragon instead. I started trying out Haban Berry, and it's saved me twice already, I'm kind of surprised.
 
I wouldn't consider Garchomp to be too good, I'd just say it's good. Especially the Scarf variant is used a lot. I like the metagame, as it's cool to see all those mons back in OU, but it's fucking centralized and speed tie based. I just had a few matches against LR and I won the first because of a Deo-e speedtie (both were cleaners) and the last one in a Skymin + ScarfChomp vs. Skymin vs. Scarfchomp (his chomp won the tie and missed). Well, hopefully the metagame gets better...
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
The first thing I've noticed is the absoulte absence of stall teams.
Garchomp is still a beast though bullet punch Scizor and the Lati twins can "check" it to a certain extent.
Shaymin-s is really frail and considering its SR weakness it really lasts short.
 
Just initial thoughts. Deoxys is obviously way too good and I'm talking about the sweeper set. It outspeeds and hits every Suspect for SE damage which is what everyone is trying out and in addition to other highly used OU pokes like Mence, Gyarados and Tyranitar. A lot of these 3-4 suspects vs. 3-4 suspects teams comes down to a Deoxys Speed Tie (no fun). The lead is also broken as you are either leading with it or countering the lead which also often comes down to a speed tie deciding the rest of the game (no fun). I'd really like to see the suspect environment without it. *end rant

Skymin is also very, very strong and I hope people continue to abuse the SubSeed and Scarf sets because I think it is very, very strong. I've built a team around abusing SubSeed set and since I fixed it to cover stupid weaknesses its been 10-2 (Skymin is my only suspect I'm using on it, Latias as well actually). With all the choice pokes (that it can set up on if its locked into the wrong move) and stuff that Skymin OHKO's it's almost guaranteed to get a kill and force you to sac something to it. Obviously you can build a team that gives it no opportunities to set up but that may leave you wide open to other suspects which only that particular poke can cover. Saccing and revenging as the primary way to deal with something that fast that can come in later is very strong.

Garchomp is interesting while he has plenty of more checks in this environment than when he was banned some good battlers are coming up with new sets that are pretty darn devastating. Oh and Sand Viel is pretty lame like it was before haha.

In general I find its coming down to alot more luck with all the darn speed ties and Skymins and Sand Viels and stuff but it is a nice breath of fresh air and hope people continue to abuse the broken sets so we make sure we get the right things uber.
 
The only thing really stopping Shaymin-S is Deoxys-S with Ice Beam and the fact that 4/6 pokemon are scarfed on any given team (exaggerated to a degree, but the abundance is ridiculously annoying). When a team's synergy is whack because you've meshed the suspects together, practically the only option is to scarf the oddball to hope and take out a counter.

I really hope Deoxys-S is taken out soon. It's crazy

So far the game is bent around revenge killing. While it's pretty easy to predict what's coming, carrying the necessary 'cushions' is kind of hard when either A) coming off massive attack stats, or B) you don't have the right resists because of the suspect concentration. I'll be happy when people back off and actually focus instead of throwing everything into a cluster and going; I dislike the 'give 1 take 1' kind of playing that's going on.
 

Erazor

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This metagame is disturbing. I'm pretty sure stage 3 was meant to test all the suspects together in the actual standard metagame, not test all the suspects in a ridiculously dragon and steel centralized metagame where every team is crammed with suspects.
 

supermarth64

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For those people that I'm pissing off with my Endeavor team, I'll stop using it after today.

Anyway, I feel as though Stage 3 is heavily revolved around speed ties and random Draco Meteors running around. No Salamences so far, as it can rarely get a chance to DD up and is still outsped by Scarf Latios (not saying Latias as no one uses her that much), Deo-s, and Skymin.

Skymin is... really annoying. It's like Togekiss but faster and can't take a hit. I doubt it would fit the offensive characteristic, as it only "consistently" sweeps 60% of the time with Air Slash.

A lot of Sub Garchomps, mostly to protect. No point in running Yache Berry because it'll get outsped.

No Latias but tons of Latios, but both on one team could be a problem.

If this were actual OU, Manaphy would drop to UU because taht's how little I see of it. The metagame is still too speed based to have Manaphy of some use.

Most of the Deo-S people I've seen are DSers and the standard support set. A few cleaners with LO, but a lot less compared to leads.
 

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