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np: Stage 3 - Family Reunion ("This Is Why I Created" Remix)

skarmbliss works really well, mixed sweeper deoxys stops it, but luckily, most people wate it as a lead. Speaking of deo leads, subskymin is pretty effective. Sub on the stealth rock, then they spike twice while you leech seed then seed flare. Shaymin has a sub, so he gets a free hit on whats comes in. Then, I bring in starmie and spin. Ha ha deoxys!

Latias can be used as a dual screener.

Deo-s is a great late game cleaner, and I surprise a lot of opponets with psycho boost, which kills just about anything without a resist or a big blob of fat (snorlax and bliss)
 
^ this. Deoxys-S, I wish he wasn't a suspect because it is so hard to take down and is the most versatile suspect right now.

  • Best lead today and virtually unstoppable. Dual Screen + SR is tough to handle. Stealth Rock + Spikes in the same lead slot is scary due to the fact it lays it down quite easily.
  • Offense-Team killer. The absence of Gyarados, Salamence and all of those DD users if because of this guy. It is the most deadliest late game sweeper also. The natural 90 / 90 defense and SpD defense should not be forgotten also.
  • Keeps Garchomp and Shaymin in check.
The answers to these suspects is Bronzong. With this hectic test, Bronzong is a valuable asset in any suspect team. It can easily fire off Gyro Ball on Deoxys-S, Hypnosis something or drop SR for you. Can manage to hold SubSD Chomp. With all the suspects being "speedy" Gyro Ball is a must and firing these bad boys off can 2-3HKO most of them. I've been running
Gyro Ball / Hypnosis / Rest / Earthquake on mine with an Aromatherapy support. Earthquake punishes those common Steel-types in suspect (SubCM Jirachi) and attempt to block Hypnosis or remain immune to Gyro Ball and Earthquake.
 
So at the end of all this are we going to be voting on all 6 or only Shaymin-S?

I would give my thoughts on the suspect ladder but everything that I want to say has already been said. The most used suspects are Deoxys-E, Garchomp, Latios, and Shaymin-S. Manaphy and Latias are rare (Latias is actually more of nonexistent since I haven't seen one at all since this whole thing started). So far the only suspect that seems uber to me is D-E. Latios could be uber but I'm personally not having too much difficulty going up against them and I believe that he's is one of the primary reasons why Garchomp isn't as threatening as it was last year.

But of course it's too early to say that for sure until everything has settled down in the suspect ladder. At first I was a bit overwhelmed by the sudden shift to such a fast-paced metagame but I have to say that it's actually pretty fun. :)
 
Bologo said:
What makes you think that a lot of the suspects will go to uber? Is it because the metagame isn't the same, or that it's currently being centered around the suspects?

Because if so, the metagame is obviously going to change with 6 very powerful pokemon (potential top 10 OU pokemon) being put into it, and that is inevitable. If not, oops.

Personally, I think the only suspects that currently have a chance a being uber are Deoxys-S and possibly Latios.
Click to expand...

Well, opinions are opinions. And my statement was based off of the preliminary opinions from most of the people I have talked to.
 
Chomp can't overpower the metagame anymore with SD YacheChomp. Latias and Latios can both annihilate it with a Draco Meteor. However, my SD HabanChomp has been meeting with considerable success as far as earning at least one kill. Folks don't even bother sending in Ice-types to KO it anymore, preferring even Scizor over that.

Specs Latios still sucks pretty hard. I haven't found any counters yet at all, although I'm considering putting Pursuit on a Metagross to see if that can stop it.

Skymin is lol. That thing never should have been Ubers in the first place. All the arguments against OU were pure theorymon, this thing can't perform in the same environment as Scizor and Latis at all.

Also, seriously, where's Wobba? I'm using CounterCoat Swampert right now (can take specs Draco Meteor and OHKO back with Mirror Coat surprisingly), but I miss the...thingy.
 
Kingdra is an absolute menace if you can get rain down. Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Dragon Pulse/HP Elec or Surf covers you against just about everything, and there are only a handful of common pokemon you can't flat out OHKO at the moment. And of course in the rain with some speed investment the only pokemon who is beating you is Timid Scarf Shaymin-s.

Bronzong is awesome, being able to set up on about one quarter of the common pokemon atm. Gyro Ball hits hard against almost everything due to how fast paced and quick most of the suspects are.

I was joking around with ToF about stall and I'm glad people have actually found it viable. I'll probably end up using some stall team at some point.

It's only been about a day, but in the first few hours that the ladder was up the leads were almost completely Deo-e. This looks like it's been dying down a bit but it's only been a day so who knows. Obviously this would be due to the fact that everybody is gearing their leads towards beating Deo-e (hi Scizor and Meta), and maybe people are starting to realize how potent a lategame sweeper he currently is. Seriously, remove Scizor, maybe the ScarfShaymin-s (or rare ScarfLati) the opponent has, throw some rocks down, and it's basically gg.
 
Leads I saw were almost 50/50 Deo Skymin split. And more so, that first speed tie between Deos is so crucial to the match, entry hazards are really important so far. Scarfmin is set up bait if it does air slash, assuming it doesn't get flinch happy.

I've only lost pokemon to scarf/haban chomps so far, Yache is really not as good with latias/latio running around. Agiligross has replaced lead varieties as the most popular gross so far.


We'll see what happens, but that's what I have noticed so far. Haven't made up my mind on any suspect yet, so gotta see how things play out.
 
All I have to say is that Scarf Jirachi is an invaluable asset. Well I suppose I'd alo like to say that nothing seems to be too overwhelming, Deo-S leads are annoying... but annoying is all they are.
 
Ok. I seem to have popularized this set a bit, so I guess I'll just post it for everyone to have fun with. xD

Deoxys-e @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Trick
- Stealth Rock
- Counter
- Superpower

You can Trick opposing leads (such as Azelf / Deoxys-e), then set up SR. If it is a Metagross lead, you always survive MM and can OHKO in return with Counter. Superpower helps against Tyranitar leads.

example:
http://pastebin.com/m6d6f3d9d

Hasn't really failed me yet and has been working phenomenally.
 
I've actually been using a Jirachi lead myself--in fact I plan on keeping it when I make my new team--except instead of Choice Scarf I've been running Expert Belt to bluff and have Thunderwave in reserve. The lack of speed is kinda annoying (never thought I'd say that about a base 100 speed pokemon), but being able to Twave unsuspecting opponents is great so far. Doesn't help against Garchomp, though.

I'm also finding that I'm rarely ever putting down rocks during matches. I don't really know why--do they seems like a necessity in this metagame?

EDIT: Oh, on an unrelated note, Stellar, is your sig a picture of Meteos? I love that game.
 
I tried stall, but found it quite difficult. Blissey takes pretty much all special attackers out of the equation, as usual, but the physical threats are often overwhelming. I encountered SD Chomp, SD Lucario, SD Scizor, DD Gyara......all on the same team! Even with the combined powers of Skarm and Forry I couldn't hold the line.

On my more balanced team, I ran into another dilemma now that stall teams are actually popping up. On something like Chomp, a Scarf set is by far the most useful against offensive teams but ineffective against these new stall teams, whereas SD Chomp is better against stall but fails against "normal" teams who are guaranteed to carry some combination of Deoxys, Latios, Scizor, ScarfChomp and an Ice Shard user. It's tough to find Pokemon that are effective against both stall and offense, as any choice pokemon is generally worthless against stall, and yet in this metagame many Pokemon require choice to be the most effective against other, more offensive teams (Chomp, Latios, Scizor, etc.). Sweeper Deoxys is probably the biggest exception I can find right now, being able to both threaten offensive teams and break SkarmBliss, but so far every stall team I've seen has carried Rotom, Bronzong or both, generally stopping Deoxys dead in its tracks (especially Bronzong).
 
SDhabanchomp works really well. Only seen like 2 manaphies these 3 days and only one salamence from some n00b(he had like heat wave and a drain punch sceptile). And I've been using SDchomp to a good success since most people use lati@s or scizor to check it I partnered garchomp with DDgyra for scizor and 252 hp 216 careful CBtar for latios(specs draco meteor does a little less than 50%) while SDscizor serves as the backup if something goes wrong and to break screens from DXS. DXS is so versatile and right now I'd say its the closest to uber because of support and offensive abilities. It can pretty easily lay up SR, spikes, and a screen. Garchomp would probably be after DXS because habanchomp pretty much guarantees a kill like maplesandwhich said.
 
I agree with Bologo, Deoxys-E is eampant, and is probably Uber. Latios hits like a ton of bricks, but can be played around by Steels and Pursuit. I like the new metagame, but the ridiculous amount of random Scarf pokemon is somewhat annoying...
 
So far, I have to say that the Metagame is almost ridiculously fast paced, but actually enjoyable in its own way.

-A lot of Deoxys-E are leading lately. Its pretty frustrating to get around if your opponent knows what they're doing. I guess I'll be replacing Superpower with Brick Break on my SD Scizor...

-Skymin doesnt appear to be all that frightening with all of the scarfers trying to get the jump on everything. Its pretty good, but frailness, SR weakness, and relatively poor accuracy (Seed Flare missed me three times once lol) make it quite a questionable choice for a team.

-Havent seen YacheChomp, but a couple of ScarfChomps have been showing up from time to time. He's not as threatening as he used to be, but the Haban Berry may bring back the fear YacheChomp originally brought in (though the Scarfs and Scizor are still an effective deterrance).

-Latias appears to be nonexistant the suspect ladder thanks to her brother. I almost feel bad for it. Manaphy hasnt shown up either as of late.

With all of the Steels running around, its a wonder why I've yet to see Magnezone anywhere...
 
Magnezone's out there. I gave up on using SD Scizor partially because every now and then a Zone would pop up and eat him.
 
Okay, so I've found that Starmie is fucking useless in this metagame, so I've been thinking of maybe running Manaphy in its place since I really need a bulky water (I'm already running two checks to Skymin, so I'm not frettin' it)--although I can't outrun Garchomp and Latios. I wonder if ScarfManaphy's any good? Gah, but I really hate Choice Scarf...
 
I tried Scarf Manaphy but was really, really not impressed. You don't even outspeed the majority of the metagame, with Deoxys and an obscene number of other Scarfers running around. Water is a poor attacking type in this metagame, really the only Water weaks I've seen at all are Tyranitar and the occasional Heatran, and Tyranitar seems to be running tons of SpD to help deal with Latios, so a Scarf Manaphy's unboosted Surf does not seem to threaten it too much. Manaphy's other options on a Scarf set are mostly useless. Steel and Dragon are the dominant types, guess how useful Energy Ball is against those Pokemon? Ice Beam is only useful against the Dragons, meaning that you might as well just use a Scarf Dragon, Chomp and Latios are faster than Manaphy, more powerful, and have better options overall (Chomp has STAB EQ which beats STAB Surf, Latios just has more sheer power, and also can utilize Trick if necessary).
 
Well, it was more of a team specific thing than a metagame thing, seeing as me team runs a pretty big Ice and Fire weak with two steels, Skymin, and Dragonite, so I thought a good water type would help. I could run a dragon, I guess, but really I don't really care for all this speed; I hate Choice Scarf for one, and I prefer bulkier sweepers, but I guess that's just personal preference. It makes me wanna run a TR team or something.

On a side note, anyone been running Rhyperior? I know it sucks against Skymin and Latios, but I've found it somewhat useful in dealing with other threats, mainly Metagross for some reason.
 
Well I know its only the 2nd day of testing but I do feel that stall is very viable, only problem I have is with an SD garchomp set if I dont have TS down. After trying many fail offensive teams I have had the most success stall partly because of the reason everything is scarfed and doesnt hit walls hard lol
 
romeojustdie said:
Well I know its only the 2nd day of testing but I do feel that stall is very viable, only problem I have is with an SD garchomp set if I dont have TS down. After trying many fail offensive teams I have had the most success stall partly because of the reason everything is scarfed and doesnt hit walls hard lol
Click to expand...

Anyone think SkarmBlissCress will make a comeback if Garchomp returns?

On another note, I had some miserable offensive failures, and have had a bit of success with stall as well, but Spiker Deoxys-S hurts. Bad, especially now that Platinum gave us that horrid thing that is Rotom.
 
IMO, this metagame is 10x better than the standard metagame.

Fast Paced Games are just more fun!


Once again, chomp does absolutely nothing on my teams. haha
 
This metagame is highly revolved around revenge killing and the infamous multiple dragon strategy to break down steels. Usually having just the right Scarfer, usually Skymin, Latios, or Garchomp, can win the game for you. There are also some surprise scarfers like Mence and Manaphy that can turn the tables right away.

The individual suspects:

Deoxys-S: agreeing that this one has a high chance of being uber. The Dual Screen sets, as well as the spiker sets that dominate Ubers are coming down and ruining lead set ups and setting the tempo of the match. The cleaner Life Orb sets have an easy time getting through once Scizor, who is usually overwhelmed by Draco Meteors and Outrages, is gone.

Skymin: Scarf set has definitely become more popular than when Platinum first came out, being one of the few that can outrun Deoxys without a +Speed nature. Skymin is tasked with revenging other scarfers (Modest Scarf still beats Lati@s/Gengar, who sit at 525 speed with a scarf), Garchomp, Manaphy, and other Scarfless Skymin. People found that the Life Orb Sub set was too frail, so it has been dropping in usage.

Garchomp: not what it used to be pre-Platinum. Goes a long way in showing how amazing (and important) CB Scizor is, who can punch away half of Chomp's health. Yachechomp isn't great now with all the scarf dragons (people have been using Haban Berry what the fuck?), CB is insane, and Scarf is the most popular.

Latias: only a few seen. Not having much of an impact at all. I thought it would be able to take on LO Deoxys, but apparently it can't, getting 2HKO'd by Ice Beam after rocks, though mine only has 176 HP EVs. Outdone by big brother.

Latios: this one is a huge problem, simply because of Specs Meteor. Serves a great role in paving the way for other dragons/Skymin/Deoxys, blasting through steels. Blissey usage shouldn't be discouraged because of the highly offensive game. Most of the suspects are specially based, which by the way may say quite a bit about the community, throwing up a red flag for uber when forced to use Blissey. It can come in on the Latis and Scarf Skymin rather easily and slow down the offense a bit.

Manaphy: have not faced one at all.

I've had great success with Resttalk Gyarados, who seems like it can't find sufficient time to set up with all the heavy offense. From what has happened, setting up is very easy, using choice locked pokemon on EQ and weakened Draco Meteors. Teams find after a couple of DD's that they can't KO it easily.

Haven't seen any Lucario/Infernape/Rotom/Zapdos/other OU staples.
 
Ive had good success trying a Rotom-App lead, if the Deoxys-S isn't a duel screener, it takes around 50% damage from Shadow Ball, Paralyse stops it from out speeding everything, and it becomes mostly death fodder.

I actually find it funny how underwhelming Shaymin-S is, it should never have been uber.
 
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