Resource NU Old Gens Hub

shiloh

is a Top Tutoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
NU Leader

artwork by Bummer
Welcome to the NeverUsed tier Old Gens Hub. The purpose of this thread is to have a place to discuss all past generations of NU. Among those things you can discuss changes to the viability rankings listed below, any meta trends you've experienced, Pokemon or cores you've been using, and any teams you might wish to share and get feedback on. We've made this thread because, while there are a couple of people who play old gen NU, we want to bring more exposure to what we believe are incredibly fun metas. These metas are in no way meant to overshadow the current meta.

Rules for posting:
  • Basic forum etiquette applies
  • Make sure to put which tier you're discussing at the beginning of your post so the reader can easily tell which gen you're talking about.
  • I realize that these tiers have been out for a long time now, however that does not mean that every single thing has been discovered. In fact, there is still room to innovate and discover new things. Don't write off something that someone else has posted just because you have preconceptions on how viable it is.
  • This is a forums rule, but it deserves a special mention here. If you're posting a nomination, core, replay, or whatever, include relevant content or arguments with your post. Not every post needs to be a novel, but if your post shows a clear lack of concern for quality then it will be deleted
Sample Teams

SM
Buginium Z Vikavolt + Swords Dance Iapapa Berry Incineroar by Eternally
:vikavolt::incineroar::vaporeon::whimsicott::steelix::passimian:
Calm Mind Comfey + Life Orb Sceptile by Eternally
:comfey::sceptile::xatu::incineroar::steelix::passimian:
Flyinium Z Braviary + Calm Mind Comfey by Finchinator
:braviary::comfey::rhydon::weezing::dhelmise::togedemaru:
Psychium Z Gallade by Finchinator
:gallade::steelix::aerodactyl::slowking::dhelmise::incineroar:
Choice Specs Sigilyph + Calm Mind Comfey by quziel
:sigilyph::comfey::seismitoad::incineroar::togedemaru::dhelmise:
Togedemaru + Swords Dance Pangoro by quziel and Rabia
:togedemaru::pangoro::whimsicott::slowking::rhydon::garbodor:
VapoVally Balance by Rabia
:vaporeon::silvally::incineroar::whimsicott::rhydon::rotom:

ORAS
Reasons by Abejas
:bronzor::audino::gourgeist::skuntank::weezing::sliggoo:
Rain Offense by honchkrow
:liepard::mesprit::ludicolo::omastar::kabutops::garbodor:
Focus Sash Archeops Hyper Offense by Shaneghoul
:archeops::garbodor::kangaskhan::samurott::rotom::lilligant:
Shell Smash Omastar Offense by Rapture
:omastar::shiftry::mismagius::mesprit::magmortar::tauros:
Work Up Tauros by Eternally
:tauros::mesprit::steelix::pelipper::magmortar::hariyama:
cringe nicknames by rozes
:tauros::mesprit::rhydon::lilligant::skuntank::hariyama:
Choice Scarf Lilligant by Rapture
:lilligant::pelipper::steelix::tauros::malamar::clefairy:
Malamar Bulky Offense by Abejas
:malamar::garbodor::steelix::pelipper::hariyama::archeops:
Kecleon + Archeops by Abejas
:archeops::xatu::lanturn::kecleon::steelix::vileplume:
Copycat + Nasty Plot Liepard by Abejas
:liepard::garbodor::steelix::kangaskhan::rotom::hariyama:
Standard ORAS NU by Teddeh (and like 50 other people lol)
:clefairy::steelix::hariyama::vileplume::xatu::liepard:

BW2
Swords Dance Charizard Offense
:charizard::piloswine::serperior::gothorita::alomomola::garbodor:
Rotom-S Offense
:rotom-fan::gardevoir::golurk::alomomola::garbodor::kangaskhan:
Choice Band Skuntank
:garbodor::kangaskhan::alomomola::skuntank::golurk::rotom-frost:
Choice Band Primeape by Finchinator
:primeape::alomomola::skuntank::piloswine::garbodor::misdreavus:
Substitute + Pain Split Garbodor by Finchinator
:gardevoir::garbodor::gurdurr::skuntank::regirock::rotom-frost:

DPP
Substitute + Nasty Plot Jynx by Heysup
:piloswine::magneton::politoed::haunter::magmortar::jynx:
Rain Offense by innovamania
:electrode::gorebyss::relicanth::skuntank::medicham::lickilicky:
Semi Trick Room by watashi
:solrock::marowak::camerupt::medicham::tauros::gardevoir:
Lead Sharpedo by Askov
:sharpedo::regirock::shiftry::tauros::gardevoir::drifblim:
Toxic Spikes + Calm Mind Drifblim by Expulso
:venomoth::cradily::slowking::charizard::hitmonchan::drifblim:
Lead Floatzel by rozes
:floatzel::shiftry::hitmonchan::drifblim::regirock::jynx:
Psychic-type Spam by Expulso
:regirock::gligar::vileplume::gardevoir::skuntank::slowking:
Life Orb Venomoth by Expulso
:sharpedo::regirock::venomoth::lickilicky::tauros::gardevoir:

ADV
Diglett + Bellossom Offense by Rabia
:glalie::diglett::bellossom::sableye::wailord::mawile:
Six Reasons Not to Use Shelgon by Rabia
:sudowoodo::shelgon::haunter::cacturne::pelipper::hitmonchan:
Lead Wailord Balance by Rabia
:wailord::chimecho::pupitar::metang::roselia::golbat:
Swords Dance Lead Crawdaunt by Rabia
:crawdaunt::metang::roselia::haunter::wailord::murkrow:
Offensive Calm Mind Chimecho by poh
:wailord::metang::chimecho::golbat::roselia::plusle:
Flying-type Spam by poh
:metang::wailord::tropius::chimecho::murkrow::roselia:
Baton Pass
:venomoth::mawile::plusle::octillery::delcatty::ledian:

GSC
Curse + Light Screen Stantler Offense by ReeceHughes
:dugtrio::primeape::stantler::xatu::gloom::octillery:
Xatu + Primeape Offense by ReeceHughes
:stantler::primeape::xatu::octillery::pineco::weezing:
Growth + Baton Pass Flareon by Earthworm
:dragonair::xatu::dewgong::flareon::magnemite::gloom:
today we are cosplaying as an emo 12-year old girl by ReeceHughes
:azumarill::pineco::gloom::kingler::ninetales::shuckle:
RestTalk Rapidash by ReeceHughes
:stantler::primeape::dugtrio::xatu::pineco::rapidash:
Fearow Offense by ReeceHughes
:dugtrio::xatu::magmar::octillery::primeape::fearow:
Baton Pass by ReeceHughes
:azumarill::stantler::farfetchd::ledian::cubone::weezing:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

shiloh

is a Top Tutoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
NU Leader
Resources
Tier 0 Higher than Max Neutral Base 180 (460 and higher) - Boost Required


700 / Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +2
690 / Ninjask / 160 / +Spe / 252 / +1
568 / Kabutops, Shiftry / 80 / +Spe / 80 / +2
558 / Klinklang / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +2
525 / Tauros / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1
524 / Ludicolo / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
518 / Stoutland, Shiftry, Altaria, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
516 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / +2
513 / Pyroar / 106 / +Spe / 252 / +1
512 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 /+2
508 / Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
478 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
475 / Primeape, Jynx, Haunter / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
470 / Barbaracle / 68 / Neutral / 252 / +2
464 / Torterra / 56 / +Spe / 252 / +2
463 / Rotom / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1
460 / Ninjask / 160 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 1 - Max base 127 to Max Neutral Base 180 (384 - 459) - Boost Required

459 / Lilligant / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Omastar, Combusken / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
458 / Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +2
457 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
456 / Vivillon / 89 / +Spe / 252 / +1
447 / Rotom-F, Rotom-S / 86 / +Spe / 252 / +1
446 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / +2
430 / Aurorus / 58 / Neutral / 252 / +2
426 / Mesprit / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
422 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 252 / +2
419 / Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / 252 / 0
418 / Exeggutor, Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
418 / Lilligant / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +1
416 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +1
414 / Crustle / 45 / +Spe / 252 / +2
406 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +2
392 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
388 / Mesprit, Altaria, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
387 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / +1
384 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / +1

Tier 2 - Max base 91 to Max Base 125 (309 - 383)


383 / Swellow / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
379 / Electrode / 140 / Neutral / 252 / 0
364 / Zebstrika / 116 / +Spe / 252 / 0
361 / Floatzel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
358 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / +2
354 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
350 / Tauros, Archeops, Jumpluff, Raichu / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
342 / Liepard, Pyroar / 106 / +Spe / 252 / 0
339 / Cryogonal, Mismagius, Kadabra, Scyther, Manectric, Rapidash / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
331 / Simipour, Simisage, Simisear / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
328 / Charizard, Ninetales, Dodrio / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
326 / Gourgeist-S / 99 / +Spe / 252 / 0
326 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / +2
324 / Swanna, Basculin / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
322 / Frogadier / 97 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Xatu, Primeape, Jynx, Sawsbuck, Electivire, Haunter / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
311 / Leavanny / 92 / +Spe / 252 / 0
309 / Chatot, Murkrow, Rotom / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 3 - Max Base 70 to Max Base 90 (261 – 306)

306 / Kangaskhan, Zangoose, Lilligant, Mr. Mime / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
305 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
304 / Vivillon / 89 / +Spe / 252 / 0
298 / Rotom-S, Rotom-F / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 0
295 / Pinsir, Illumise / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Electivire, Leafeon / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 0
284 / Mesprit, Kabutops, Shiftry, Glalie / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
279 / Kangaskhan, Lilligant, Klinklang, Zangoose / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
278 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
273 / Garbodor, Claydol, Smeargle / 75 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Articuno, Pinsir, Illumise / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0
265 / Magmortar / 83 / Neutral / 252 / 0
262 / Ludicolo, Samurott / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 4 - Max Neutral Base 52 to Max Neutral Base 80 (204 – 259)


259 / Grumpig, Mesprit, Shiftry Kabutops, Drifblim, Stoutland, Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
258 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / 0
257 / Vanilluxe / 79 / Neutral / 252 / 0
256 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Kricketune, Flareon, Roselia / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
245 / Malamar / 73 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 144 / 0
240 / Abomasnow / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Ludicolo, Samurott, Mantine, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
236 / Miltank / 100 / Neutral / 0 / 0
236 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 0
235 / Barbaracle / 68 / Neutral / 252 / 0
233 / Fraxure / 67 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Flareon, Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Omastar, Combusken, Cacturne / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
226 / Xatu / 95 / Neutral / 0 / 0
223 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
219 / Abomasnow, Pawniard, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
215 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / Neutral / 252 / 0
211 / Torterra, Trevenant / 56 / Neutral / 252 / 0
209 / Omastar, Golurk, Cacturne, Combusken, Exeggutor, Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Crustle / 45 / +Spe / 252 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 5 - Min Base 54 to Max Base 50 (137 – 199)


199 / Aggron, Mawile / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
196 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0
196 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / 0
186 / Garbodor, Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 0 / 0
183 / Weezing / 60 / Neutral / 108 / 0
182 / Malamar / 73 / Neutral / 0 / 0
179 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / 0
179 / Rhydon, Camerupt, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
176 / Mantine, Poliwrath, Solrock / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
172 / Gogoat / 68 / Neutral / 0 / 0
170 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Flareon, Pelipper, Roselia, Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
163 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / 0
156 / Weezing, Sliggoo, Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
148 / Torterra, Trevenant / 56 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Omastar, Golurk / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
145 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 116 / 0
144 / Gourgeist-XL / 54 / Neutral / 0 / 0
137 / Machoke / 45 / Neutral / 44 / 0

Tier 6 - Min Base 50 Speed and lower (136 and lower)


136 / Hariyama, Mawile, Metang, Muk, Regirock, Lickilicky, Vileplume, Mega Audino, Piloswine / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
135 / Vileplume [Hidden Power Fire] / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
116 / Rhydon, Gurdurr, Kecleon, Camerupt, Frillish / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
106 / Clefairy / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
102 / Gastrodon / 39 / -Spe / 0 / 0
100 / Stunfisk / 32 / Neutral / 0 / 0
96 / Steelix / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
94 / Musharna / 29 / Neutral / 0 / 0
90 / Carracosta / 32 / -Spe / 0 / 0
82 / Bronzor / 23 / Neutral / 0 / 0
76 / Beheeyem (0 IV) / 40 / -Spe / 0 /0
56 / Musharna (0 IV) / 29 / -Spe / 0 / 0
56 / Ferroseed / 10 / Neutral / 0 / 0
22 / Ferroseed (0 IV) / 10 / -Spe / 0 / 0
Tier 0 (Boost Required)
712 /Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / 2
682 / Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 216 / 2
658 / Floatzel / 115 / Neutral / 252 / 2
634 / Sawsbuck / 95+ / Spe / 252 / 2
568 / Altaria, Drifblim / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 2
534 / Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / 0 / 1
524 / Butterfree / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 2
522 / Combusken / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 3
518 / Shiftry, Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 2
512 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / 2
508 / Electabuzz / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 1
496 / Zebstrika / 116 / Neutral / 252 / 1
492 / Charizard, Raichu / 100+ / Spe / 252 / 1
478 / Ludicolo, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 2
475 / Sawsbuck, Haunter / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 1
464 / Torterra / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 2
448 / Seismitoad / 74 / Neutral / 160 / 2
447 / Rotom-F, Rotom-S / 86 / +Spe / 252 /1
446 / Huntail, Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 2
442 / Sawk / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 1
426 / Gardevoir, Braviary, Altaria / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 1
424 / Fraxure / 67 / Neutral / 168 / 2
418 / Combusken, Relicanth, Exeggutor, Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 2

Tier 1 (>Max Base 95 Speed to 216 Base 140 Speed)
407 / Electrode / 140 / +Spe / 216 / 0
406 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 282
393 / Butterfree / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 1
388 / Gardevoir, Braviary, Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 1
384 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / 1
383 / Swellow / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
378 / Armaldo / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 2
364 / Zebstrika / 116 / +Spe / 252 / 0
361 / Persian, Sneasel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
359 / Swoobat / 114 / +Spe / 252 / 0
358 / Lairon, Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 2
356 / Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / 0 / 0
354 / Zweilous / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 1
352 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 2
350 / Tauros, Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Ursaring / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 1
341 / Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 216 / 0
341 / Swoobat / 114 / +Spe / 184 /0
341 / Serperior / 113 / +Spe / 192 / 0
340 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 220 / 1
340 / Shelgon / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 3
339 / Electabuzz, Rapidash, Kadabra / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
331 / Simipour, Simisear, Simisage / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
329 / Floatzel / 115 / Neutral / 252 / 0
328 / Charizard, Raichu / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
326 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / 2
324 / Swanna, Basculin / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
319 / Linoone / 100 / +Spe / 216 / 0
318 / Fraxure / 67 / Neutral / 168 / 1

Tier 2 (>Min Base 100 Speed to Max Base 95 Speed)
317 / Sawsbuck, Leafeon, Haunter / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
313 / Combusken / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 1
310 / Octillery / 45 / +Spe / 252 / 1
306 / Pikachu, Zangoose, Vigoroth / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
304 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 28 / 1
299 / Raichu / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0
298 / Rotom-F, Rotom-S / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 0
295 / Articuno, Sawk, Pinsir / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
290 / Basculin / 98 / Neutral / 232 / 0
284 / Glalie, Gardevoir, Altaria, Drifblim / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
279 / Kangaskhan / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
272 / Shelgon / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 2
269 / Sawk, Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0
266 / Floatzel / 115 / Neutral / 0 / 0
264 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 1
262 / Butterfree, Luxray, Ludicolo, Samurott / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
259 / Arbok, Shiftry, Braviary, Altaria, Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
256 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / 0
246 / Electabuzz / 105 / Neutral / 0 / 0
246 / Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 200 / 0
242 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 152 / 0
239 / Ludicolo, Dragonair, Victreebel, Luxray, Samurott / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 3 (>Min Base 80 Speed to Min Base 100 Speed)
236 / Miltank / 100 / Neutral / 0 / 0
233 / Solrock / 70 / Neutral / 228 / 0
232 / Torterra / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 0
229 / Ursaring, Relicanth, Ampharos / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
227 / Kangaskhan / 90 / Neutral / 44 / 0
226 / Leafeon / 95 / Neutral / 0 / 0
224 / Seismitoad / 74 / Neutral / 160 / 0
223 / Huntail, Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
218 / Murkrow / 91 / Neutral / 0 / 0
218 / Beartic / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
216 / Golbat, Vigoroth / 90 / Neutral / 0 / 0
212 / Fraxure / 67 / Neutral / 168 / 0
212 / Misdreavus / 85 / Neutral / 24 / 0
212 / Mawile / 50 / +Spe / 228 / 0
211 / Torterra / 58 / Neutral / 252 / 0
210 / Luxray / 70 / Neutral / 136 / 0
209 / Combusken, Ursaring, Relicanth, Exeggutor, Cacturne, Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
208 / Articuno / 85 / Neutral / 80
206 / Volbeat / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
204 / Shelgon / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 1
203 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 28 / 0
199 / Beartic, Eelektross / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 4 (>Min Base 55 Speed to Min Base 80 Speed)
196 / Meganium, Grumpig, Gardevoir / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0
192 / Rampardos / 58 / Neutral / 160 / 0
189 / Marowak, Octillery, Armaldo, Golem / 45 / Neutral / 252 /0
186 / Garbodor / 75 / Neutral / 0 / 0
179 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
177 / Exeggutor / 55 / Neutral / 124 / 0
176 / Tentacool, Luxray, Natu, Mantine, Dragonair, Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
170 / Hypno / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0
167 / Exeggutor, Golurk / 55 / Neutral / 84 / 0
166 / Alomomola, Flareon, Glaceon / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
163 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / 0
158 / Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 48 / 0
157 / Zweilous / 58 / Neutral / 20 / 0
157 / Beartic / 50 / Neutral / 84 / 0
156 / Lapras, Weezing, Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
152 / Wartortle, Torterra / 58 / Neutral / 0 / 0

Tier 5 (<Min Base 58 Speed)
146 / Ampharos, Relicanth, Lampent, Cacturne / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
137 / Golem / 45 / Neutral / 44 / 0
137 / Vileplume / 50 / Neutral / 4 / 0
136 / Audino, Muk, Regice, Piloswine, Shelgon, Regirock, Lickilicky, Eelektross / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
132 / Scraggy / 48 / Neutral / 0 / 0
130 / Solrock / 70 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
130 / Whirlipede / 47 / Neutral / 0 / 0
126 / Marowak, Throh, Armaldo / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
122 / Cradily / 43 / Neutral / 0 / 0
121 / Banette / 65 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
116 / Lairon, Togetic, Probopass, Gurdurr, Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
108 / Rampardos, Zweilous / 58 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
106 / Omanyte / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
103 / Lampent / 55 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
100 / Carracosta, Stunfisk / 32 / Neutral / 0 / 0
95 / Duosion / 30 / Neutral / 0, 30IV / 0
94 / Audino / 50 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
94 / Musharna / 29 / Neutral / 0 / 0
86 / Gigalith / 25 / Neutral / 0 / 0
85 / Marowak, Octillery / 45 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
76 / Beheeyem / 40 / -Spe / 0, 0IV / 0
76 / Torkoal / 20 / Neutral / 0 / 0
58 / Duosion / 30 / -Spe / 0, 0 IV / 0
Tier 0 (> Choice Scarf Max Base 85 Speed)
700 / Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +2
658 / Floatzel / 115 / Neutral / 252 / +2
568 / Shiftry / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +2
525 / Tauros / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1
524 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
518 / Shiftry, Drifblim / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
508 / Manectric / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
492 / Typhlosion, Charizard / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +1
480 / Whiscash, Lapras / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +2
478 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
475 / Jynx / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
459 / Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Relicanth / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
448 / Linoone / 100 / Neutral / 252 / +1
446 / Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / +2

Tier 1 (> Max Base 115 Speed to Choice Scarf Max Base 85 Speed)
442 / Pinsir / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
438 / Whiscash, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +2
436 / Magmortar / 83 / +Spe / 252 / +1
... / Regirock, Regice / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +2
433 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / +1
426 / Medicham, Gardevoir, Drifblim / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
418 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
416 / Electrode / 140 / +Spe / 252 / 0
406 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +2
398 / Vileplume, Regirock, Regice / 50 / Neutral / 252 / +2
393 / Magneton / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1
392 / Camerupt, Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
388 / Medicham / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
379 / Electrode / 140 / Neutral / 252 / 0
376 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / +1

Tier 2 (> Max Base 80 Speed to Max Base 115 Speed)
361 / Floatzel, Persian, Sneasel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Whiscash, Lapras / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1
358 / Camerupt, Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +2
355 / Purugly / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
350 / Tauros, Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +1
339 / Manectric, Rapidash / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
329 / Floatzel / 115 / Neutral / 252 / 0
328 / Charizard, Typhlosion, Dodrio, Ninetales / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
... / Whiscash, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +1
317 / Jynx, Haunter, Sharpedo / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
299 / Linoone / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0
295 / Pinsir, Gligar, Golduck / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
293 / Skuntank / 84 / +Spe / 252 / 0
291 / Magmortar / 83 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 3 (> Max Neutral Nature Base 50 Speed to Max Base 80 Speed)
284 / Medicham, Gardevoir, Drifblim, Shiftry, Glalie, Grumpig / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0
262 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
259 / Shiftry, Drifblim, Meganium / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Whiscash, Lapras / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Magneton, Victreebel, Poliwrath, Politoed / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
... / Cacturne, Crawdaunt, Relicanth / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
223 / Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
219 / Whiscash, Lapras, Porygon2 / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
218 / Regirock, Regice / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
209 / Cacturne, Crawdaunt, Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Marowak, Golem / 45 / +Spe / 252 / 0
206 / Gligar / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 4 (> Min Base 50 Speed to Max Neutral Nature Base 50 Speed)
199 / Vileplume, Regirock, Muk, Piloswine, Regice / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
196 / Meganium, Gardevoir, Grumpig / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0
... / Camerupt, Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / 0
189 / Marowak, Golem, Machoke / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
188 / Nidoqueen / 76 / Neutral / 0 / 0
179 / Camerupt, Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
176 / Poliwrath, Politoed, Mantine / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
170 / Hypno / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Sandslash, Roselia / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
156 / Lapras, Porygon2 / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0

Tier 5 (<= Min Base 50 Speed)
136 / Regirock, Lickilicky, Vileplume, Muk, Regice / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
130 / Solrock / 70 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
122 / Cradily / 43 / Neutral / 0 / 0
116 / Probopass, Camerupt, Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
112 / Porygon2 / 60 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
106 / Quagsire / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
103 / Crawdaunt / 55 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
96 / Slowking / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
86 / Dusclops / 25 / Neutral / 0 / 0
85 / Marowak / 45 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
76 / Camerupt / 40 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
58 / Slowking / 30 / -Spe / 0 (0 IVs) / 0
Tier 0 - Boost Required
634 / Plusle, Minun / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +2
475 / Plusle, Minun / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
459 / Vigoroth, Poliwhirl / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +2
446 / Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / +2
442 / Pupitar / 51 / +Spe / 252 / 0
436 / Magby / 83 / +Spe / 252 / +1
436 / Shelgon / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +2
436 / Tangela (Hidden Power Fire) / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +2
406 / Huntail / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +2
402 / Tropius / 51 / Neutral / 252 / +2
400 / Tropius (Hidden Power Fire) / 51 / Neutral / 252 / +2
398 / Metang / 50 / Neutral / 252 / +2
396 / Bellossom (Hidden Power Fire) / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
358 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +2
331 / Pupitar / 51 / +Spe / 252 / +1
327 / Shelgon / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +1

Tier 1 - 322-239
322 / Raticate / 97 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Diglett, Haunter, Plusle, Minun / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
309 / Murkrow, Pidgeot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Abra, Golbat, Pikachu, Poliwhirl, Ponyta, Venomoth, Vigoroth, / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
295 / Seadra / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
291 / Magby / 83 / +Spe / 252 / 0do
284 / Arbok, Charmeleon, Glalie / +Spe / 252 / 0
276 / Hitmonchan / +Spe / 252 / 0
273 / Kingler / +Spe / 252 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Houndour / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
239 / Castform / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 2 - 229-146
229 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
229 / Flareon, Pelipper, Seviper / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
223 / Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
221 / Pupitar / 51 / +Spe / 252 / 0
218 / Tangela (Hidden Power Fire) / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
218 / Shelgon / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
209 / Cacturne, Crawdaunt / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
203 / Huntail / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0
201 / Tropius / 51 / Neutral / 252 / 0
200 / Tropius (Hidden Power Fire) / 51 / Neutral / 252 / 0
199 / Metang, Piloswine / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
198 / Bellossom (Hidden Power Fire) / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
189 / Machoke, Octillery / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
179 / Ariados, Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
176 / Castform, Dewgong / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Chimecho, Flareon, Roselia / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
156 / Tangela, Whiscash, Wailord / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
152 / Wartortle / 58 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Relicanth, Swalot / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0

Tier 3 - 140-68
140 / Whiscash / 60 / -Spe / 0 / 0
136 / Mawile, Metang, Piloswine, Sableye / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
126 / Dunsparce, Machoke, Octillery, Wigglytuff / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
116 / Ariados, Kecleon, Lairon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
106 / Graveler / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
96 / Lickitung, Sudowoodo, Magcargo / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
76 / Torkoal / 20 / Neutral / 0 / 0
68 / Torkoal / 20 / -Spe / 0 / 0
 
Last edited by a moderator:

shiloh

is a Top Tutoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
NU Leader
Smogdex and Sets

USUM - https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/formats/nu/
ORAS - http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/formats/nu/
BW2 - http://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/formats/nu/
DPP - http://www.smogon.com/dex/dp/formats/nu/
Hitmonchan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Earthquake

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
Huntail @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam
Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Heal Bell

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Toxic
- Protect
- Reflect
Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Flamethrower

Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic
- Protect

Flareon @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 112 SpA / 144 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Double-Edge
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- HIdden Power Ground / Quick Attack
Haunter @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Substitute / Hidden Power Fire
Mawile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Steel]

Mawile (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Baton Pass

Mawile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Steel]
Sableye @ Leftovers
Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpD
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 3 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Recover
- Fire Punch
Arbok @ Choice Band / Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Glare
Bellossom @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 96 SpA / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Explosion
- Taunt
Murkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Drill Peck
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Double-Edge
Pidgeot @ Choice Band
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Quick Attack
Plusle @ Salac Berry
Ability: Plus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Baton Pass
Pupitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Protect
Relicanth @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Def
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Relicanth @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Bug]
Roselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Spikes
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Leech Seed
Tangela @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
Vigoroth @ Salac Berry
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Endure
- Flail
- Reversal
- Shadow Ball

Vigoroth @ Leftovers
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Punch

Vigoroth @ Choice Band
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Punch
Graveler @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Explosion
Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Agility
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Sudowoodo @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Explosion
Swalot @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest / Quiet Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fire Punch
- Giga Drain
- Thunder Punch / Explosion
Torkoal @ Leftovers
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Flamethrower
- Toxic / Hidden Power Water
- Protect
- Explosion
Golbat @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Aerial Ace
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Golbat @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Toxic
Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Substitute
Raticate @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Super Fang
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Venomoth @ Leftovers
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Whiscash @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Sleep Talk

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 172 HP / 88 Def / 248 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute
Cacturne @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Needle Arm
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Destiny Bond
Machoke @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
Magby @ Salac Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Endure
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Metang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Metang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Toxic
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
Piloswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Blizzard
- Double-Edge
Seadra @ Salac Berry
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Endure
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Seadra @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Agility
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Rest

Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Self-Destruct
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Surf
- Ice Beam
Octillery @ Leftovers
Ability: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Surf
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunder Wave
Abra @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Fire Punch
- Psychic
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Return
- Ancient Power
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Surf

Crawdaunt @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Return
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Swords Dance
- Surf
Diglett @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Lairon @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- Rock Slide
Magcargo @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Toxic
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Magcargo @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Tackle
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tropius @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Tropius @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Synthesis
Poliwhirl @ Salac Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
Seviper @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Glare

GSC NU - https://www.smogon.com/dex/gs/formats/nu/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rse is the best nu itteration so my post will be referring to this. my reasoning is gonna be short because only like 4 people play this tier so who cares anyways

relicanth should move to like a-
idg why this thing is in a+ lol. does absolutely nothing versus defensive teams, loses to chan, sunnybeamers, and huntail, and faces tons of competition with graveler and pupitar as a bulky rock who have way better offensive presence and dont have to rely on cb to be offensively threatening thanks to boom and dd, respectively

torkoal should move to a- just because its way less splashable as a bulky fire compared to flareon, who checks sunnybeamers way better, and as a spinner with hitmonchan. torkoal only really has use on such a small amount of teams (that require a spinner but have chan doing something else) that i cant see it in a

diglett could move to b+ thanks to how much team support it offers, despite its lack of defensive utility. trapping flareon, mawile, swalot, and weakening rocks for its team is amazing utility to have and makes it a great partner to a ton of mons rn, specifically sunnybeamers or cb pidgeot. also sdpass maw+dig is fucking scary

why is machoke in b+, please move it to like c its outclassed by chan outside of guts but is way worse in nearly every situation

ill post a sample team sometime soon (for this and gsc :3) but woo first post in the thread
 

kay

The unlikely story of an unorthodox protagonist
is a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

Venomoth @ Leftovers
Ability: Shield Dust
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Sludge Bomb

Sudowoodo @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
- Rock Slide
- Self-Destruct
- Toxic
- Protect

Dugtrio @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute

Octillery @ Leftovers
Ability: Suction Cups
IVs: 28 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Return

Hitmonchan @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
IVs: 26 Atk / 28 Def
- Agility
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Rapidash @ Leftovers
Ability: Run Away
IVs: 24 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ground]

GSC is a really cool tier so I thought I'd share my team I've been using. I run lead Venomoth to handle fighting types as well as to add disruption as it's able to both sleep and paralyze mons which my team can abuse using a few set up sweepers in hitmonchan and sunny day rapidash as well having a really bulky slow wall breaker in octillery who can abuse paralyzed foes. After that we have Sudowoodo who acts as a normal resist who can also break walls with self-destruct to help blow open teams for my other members. Duggy is there basically just for speed as with its amazing 120 base speed it's able to out speed things Pikachu and Rapidash and kill with super effective EQ's. Octillery is honestly my favorite mon to use in GSC NU as it's both bulky sporting 75/75/75 bulk and amazing 105/105 atk/ Sp.A which lets it be a mixed wall breaker, so it's pu in here to deal with other water and fire types and break down cores. Hitmonchan is here for things like Duggy and other rock types and pairs with Rapidash as my two set up mons.

EDIT: Heres 3 replays of the team in action for the replay section:
vs Rozes http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-321653576
vs Stoned http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-321664309
vs Lolbro http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-321702935




C Upper ---> B Upper (edit after more testing should be B high not B low.)
Taking this time to piggy back and make a duel post!

So Octillery is a really good mon in GSC as it's good over all bulk lets it soak up hits while breaking things with its great mixed offensive stats and coverage while also getting a nice bulky water type for things like Rapidash. The main selling point I feel on Octillery is the fact that it's extremely hard to switch into with water/ice/electric/normal coverage that can hit either physically or specially depending on the wall. Things like Tangela fear both Ice Beam while other bulky waters such as Seadra and Dewgong are hit by HP Electric.

Octillery finds itself able to separate itself over over its counterpart in Dewgong by offering a way to hit bulky waters, have better match up into hitmonchan and hitmontop, and not being weak to rock means that things like Dugtrio aren't an issue as it doesn't fear being out sped and hit with rock coverage. It also has the coverage to deal with over bulky waters which is something Dewgong fails to do.
 
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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
I am just saying that Shadow Tag should be banned in Gen 5 NU, as Gothorita is super annoying with it's Rest Calm Mind set with Toxic, being able to set up on passive mons like Alomomola and Seismeitoad with ease. Don't know if we are able to discuss tiering in older gens, but I would like to note that Jynx and Scolipede were banned in Gen 5 NU when Gen 6 had already started.
 
I am just saying that Shadow Tag should be banned in Gen 5 NU, as Gothorita is super annoying with it's Rest Calm Mind set with Toxic, being able to set up on passive mons like Alomomola and Seismeitoad with ease. Don't know if we are able to discuss tiering in older gens, but I would like to note that Jynx and Scolipede were banned in Gen 5 NU when Gen 6 had already started.
can u provide some replays or literally any evidence to suggest that gothorita is broken because rn all youre saying is "it traps passive mons." i mean that sucks for stall but thats really not a good enough reason for it to be banned (on its own, at least). goth has a trash matchup versus offense and even bulkier teams can get rid of it w stuff like skunk misdreavus, so giving it a suspect based of the principle of "its annoying" is ridiculous. theres a fine line between "my teams struggle against this mon" and "this mon is broken"
 
TFW someone wants to make Alomomola better in BW2NU. Also Seismitoad is hardly a passive mon in BW2, I personally always found its offensive sets to be stronger than the defensive one.

Also a question, who made those BW2 rankings? They look very different from the ones we had and I don't agree with a lot of it.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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TFW someone wants to make Alomomola better in BW2NU. Also Seismitoad is hardly a passive mon in BW2, I personally always found its offensive sets to be stronger than the defensive one.

Also a question, who made those BW2 rankings? They look very different from the ones we had and I don't agree with a lot of it.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nu-viability-rankings-2-0.3484121/ I grabbed them from here, just to use as a starting point. They can be updated to where more people think they should be after we get more people playing that particular gen.

I am just saying that Shadow Tag should be banned in Gen 5 NU, as Gothorita is super annoying with it's Rest Calm Mind set with Toxic, being able to set up on passive mons like Alomomola and Seismeitoad with ease. Don't know if we are able to discuss tiering in older gens, but I would like to note that Jynx and Scolipede were banned in Gen 5 NU when Gen 6 had already started.
Everytime I've played against Gothorita in gen5 its gone something like this; Traps a mon, sets up, that particular mon does enough damage to where its easily revenged next couple of turns, wastes like 20 turns setting up and then dies when I bring in my next Pokemon. The reason Gothorita has shadow tag banned in ORAS is because UU banned Shadow Tag, not NU. On top of that Gothorita pressured a ton of common Pokemon cores back in the day when it was still usable. BW2 NU meta isn't as kind to Gothorita. I don't feel comfortable messing with a past meta, unless we had a huge amount of support to remove something as well as backing from Senior Staff.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Ayyy I am hyped for this thread!!! Well, time to contribute a bit:

Regarding the BW2 NU VR, I think Wartortle should rise from B- to B. It's the best spinner in the tier, which is important as a lot of the top threats in BW2 NU, like Charizard, are weak to Stealth Rock. It also is a decent check to Fire, Rock, and Ground-types thanks to it's Eviolite bulk. While it is a bit passive and has a hard time getting on more offensive teams, the support it provides through Rapid Spin is quite important to a lot of mons, so I think it should rise.

Will probably drop some teams and cores soon! ;D
 

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
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[GEN 2]

ok so most of you probably know I've been playing the fuck out of GSC NU in the past couple days. I've built a number of successful squads (2 of which are in sample teams hehe) and I'm at the point where I'd like to share a core or two so you guys can see the tier a bit differently.


Hitmontop @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
IVs: 26 Atk / 28 Def
- Rolling Kick
- Mach Punch
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Curse

Murkrow @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
IVs: 24 Atk
- Drill Peck
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Shadow Ball

Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Cool balance core that I included in my most recent team. Murkrow supports hitmontop by trapping Mime/Haunter while outspeeding Pika and being able to pressure it with HP Ground. Lickitung soft-checks a lot in the meta because of its comparably insane bulk. I went with Curse because, not only is it a great win con that synergizes well with Hitmontop's ability to pressure Rock-types, but it really benefits from Murkrow's ability to pressure Haunter. If you wanted something that isn't weak to TBolt, you can run Houndour instead, but I personally prefer Murkrow's Speed in the context of my team.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
[Gen 5]

So yeah, BW2 NU is a fun tier, so I'd like to share a core that I've been using:


Golurk @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

Gothorita @ Eviolite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Sleep Talk / Thunderbolt


Pretty cool core that I've been using in a bulky offense team. Choice Band Golurk is one of the most terrifying wallbreakers in Gen 5 NU with it's powerful STABs and coverage, but it has problems with a couple of walls, namely Alomomola, Weezing, and Seismitoad. Gothorita is a great partner for Golurk due to this thanks to Shadow Tag letting it trap these passive walls and take them out. Gothorita can then pressure the opposing team with boosted attacks. With these threats gone, Golurk can then freely wallbreak the opposing team with little trouble, leaving holes for sweeping teammates to sweep. Sweepers or cleaners like Swords Dance Shiftry, Swords Dance Samurott, or Choice Scarf Braviary pair well with this core due to Golurk wallbreaking the other team. Something that can defeat Mandibuzz and Skuntank, arguably the biggest threats to the core, are also useful. Overall, this is a really cool core and I hope you like it!
 

Oglemi

Golden Fury
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rse is the best nu itteration so my post will be referring to this. my reasoning is gonna be short because only like 4 people play this tier so who cares anyways

relicanth should move to like a-
idg why this thing is in a+ lol. does absolutely nothing versus defensive teams, loses to chan, sunnybeamers, and huntail, and faces tons of competition with graveler and pupitar as a bulky rock who have way better offensive presence and dont have to rely on cb to be offensively threatening thanks to boom and dd, respectively

torkoal should move to a- just because its way less splashable as a bulky fire compared to flareon, who checks sunnybeamers way better, and as a spinner with hitmonchan. torkoal only really has use on such a small amount of teams (that require a spinner but have chan doing something else) that i cant see it in a

diglett could move to b+ thanks to how much team support it offers, despite its lack of defensive utility. trapping flareon, mawile, swalot, and weakening rocks for its team is amazing utility to have and makes it a great partner to a ton of mons rn, specifically sunnybeamers or cb pidgeot. also sdpass maw+dig is fucking scary

why is machoke in b+, please move it to like c its outclassed by chan outside of guts but is way worse in nearly every situation

ill post a sample team sometime soon (for this and gsc :3) but woo first post in the thread

Relicanth is extremely good idk what you're on about, it hard walls the Normals and Birds, it faces no competition with graveler, sudowoodo or pupitar since none can even come close to matching its physical bulkiness (pupitar shouldn't even be in that same sentence, it's purely a DD sweeper), and sunnybeamers get toxic'd on the switch and then are relatively easily walled by other mons, relicanth doesn't even give bellossom an easy switch since rock slide does pretty decent damage. It's probably the best physical wall in the metagame after sableye. i just have a hard time you've played the meta much if you believe relicanth is irrelevant

torkoal doesn't get rapid spin in rse, further confirming my theory of not much practice in the meta. torkoal is actually extremely splashable since it's a far better mixed wall than flareon which still hard walls the sunnybeamers and checks plusle, but also doesn't just cave to vigoroth, diglett, and other shit like pupitar, and explosion is one of the best safety tools in the metagame

no opinion on diglett, i feel it's a dead slot unless you absolutely /need/ flareon out of the way but trapping is op in any metagame so whatever

machoke is directly outclassed by chan but it's actually almost twice as physically bulky and just slightly less powerful making bulk up sets far more potent, hitmonchan just has the speed and unpredictability going for it. all that said, i haven't played with it much so it may be ineffective in the long run, but it's definitely not on the same level as super niche stuff like ariados
 
i guess ill make my first bw2 nu vr post since bw2 nu was a thing :]

Monferno:
Unlisted ---> C / C+ Rank


I have used this mon recently, since i decided to try and build for BW2 NU fun games vs NotNova230 and i tried to build and see if complete hazards control was possible in a meta without defog, or a xatu. This meant a lot of taunting, a lot. I think the team ended up with about 4 taunters, and overall was a success since i was able to apply this "complete" hazards control and often choke out a lot of defensive threats for my Taunt CM Serperior to clean up. Part of the teams success was down to the proficiency of Monferno as a lead SR setter with focus sash. It works like how Archeops functions in the modern NU meta, Taunt SR setters, and set up SR yourself. If you taunted at the correct moment, you are rewarded with a free 1% endeavor or free overheat to bombard the enemy team with. The reason why i used this set in particular is because i realised its the only mon in BW2 NU to get this feature, nothing actually gets SR + Taunt + Endeavor combination in this meta thats viable apart from monferno, and as a result i feel its worthy of being ranked. Especially above the likes of Dwebble, which might seem to offer more, but in reality dies to the ever-present Sawk, and often cant get hazards up early which is a huge disadvantage. It's main purpose over say Rampardos is its high speed tier and access to Taunt, meaning it can prevent the likes of Seismitoad to set SR T1 and proceed to set some itself.

Monferno @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor


overall its a cool meta pokemon, inspired by a current threat in NU being Archeops. This does exactly the same, except in BW2.
 
DPP:

Are we applying Sand Veil and Snow Cloak bans? If so, Snover and Hippopotas need a huge reconsideration. I'd already argue that they're rated too highly. C for me. Requires teams to be built solely about the weather which is a considerable amount of support which imo breaks the B criteria.

Slowking should rise to S, because it works so well as a catch all (akin to Milotic in DPP UU) with few drawbacks. Good check to things like Charizard, Jynx, Medicham (without Thunderpunch), amongst others. Jynx to A, Manetric to A+. Slowking is that good. Skuntank is incredible in the meta. Grumpig to A- for it's ability to switch into Charizard, function as support to team either offensively or defensively.

Fire types are ridiculous. Magmortar, Charizard, Typhlosion are the obvious threats. Ninetales can Nasty Plot, Rapidash hits really hard and gets recovery. Even Camerupt is notable: neutral to rock, stealth rock, rock polish, explosion.

Cores:
Vileplume, Slowking, Regirock (defensive/balanced)
Tauros, Skuntank (offensive)

Will contribute more to this post at some point.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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DPP:

Are we applying Sand Veil and Snow Cloak bans? If so, Snover and Hippopotas need a huge reconsideration. I'd already argue that they're rated too highly. C for me. Requires teams to be built solely about the weather which is a considerable amount of support which imo breaks the B criteria.
So the ban of Sand Veil and Snow Cloak would eliminate Cacturne and other users of those abilities from the tier. The sim doesn't enforce that ban and the player base hasn't banned those abilities so that viable Pokemon outside of those respective weathers can still be used. The one exception is if a tournament host wishes to ban them from their tour.
 

Oglemi

Golden Fury
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Even if snow cloak was banned that doesn't affect hail's viability at all. The only relevant snow cloak mon is glaceon which only makes appearances on the far less effective offensive hail teams as opposed to the incredibly effective stallrein builds.

Sand however does take a hit in losing cacturne and gabite, however they are far from necessary and are really only used to make use of the evasion boost, not because they're particularly effective at helping cradily sweep.

So in effect, neither snover or hippopotas should move in ranking even if the evasion clause is applied in tournaments
 

Oglemi

Golden Fury
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Continuing, slowking should absolutely not move to s, it's simply too easily broken to be considered "dominating" in the tier defensively. Charizard's physical sets wreck it, medicham really should never be without thunderpunch, tauros shits on it, jynx can set up on it, and then that's not even considering any of the other a mons, particularly skuntank which turns slowking into an almost complete liability.

I can see the arguments for moving jynx out of s, but I really don't think people have truly seen her full potential yet, her speed, lovely kiss, and offensive typing are incredible and she's just as scary of a late-game mon as the other 3 s mons, if not more so just because she can completely shut down an opp with lovely kiss.

Would not be against manectric and grumpig moving up, though pig should probably stay b since it's directly outclassed by hypno and slowking for lacking instant recovery and not being able to take on physical threats as effectively, particularly medicham.
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
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BW2

a FLCL team cased and i changed a bit 1/2 years ago to make it better, probably one if not the best bw2 nu mola bulky offense
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Healing Wish

Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Flamethrower

Eelektross @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Golurk @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 76 Def / 96 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Skuntank @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt


cased's normal spam

Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- U-turn
- Quick Attack
- Tailwind

Kangaskhan @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge

Zangoose (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Quick Attack
- Night Slash
- Close Combat

Gothorita (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
- Trick
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Golurk @ Yache Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch

Rotom-Frost @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
 
So the ban of Sand Veil and Snow Cloak would eliminate Cacturne and other users of those abilities from the tier. The sim doesn't enforce that ban and the player base hasn't banned those abilities so that viable Pokemon outside of those respective weathers can still be used. The one exception is if a tournament host wishes to ban them from their tour.
I assumed it'd be a complex ban if implemented i.e. Sand Stream + Sand Veil, Snow Warning + Snow Veil, to prevent the abuse of the abilities in question.

Even if snow cloak was banned that doesn't affect hail's viability at all. The only relevant snow cloak mon is glaceon which only makes appearances on the far less effective offensive hail teams as opposed to the incredibly effective stallrein builds.

Sand however does take a hit in losing cacturne and gabite, however they are far from necessary and are really only used to make use of the evasion boost, not because they're particularly effective at helping cradily sweep.

So in effect, neither snover or hippopotas should move in ranking even if the evasion clause is applied in tournaments
Fair points made regarding the evasion. Still not sure I agree with Hippo/Snover being B ranked because they are essentially liabilities other than providing weather.

Continuing, slowking should absolutely not move to s, it's simply too easily broken to be considered "dominating" in the tier defensively. Charizard's physical sets wreck it, medicham really should never be without thunderpunch, tauros shits on it, jynx can set up on it, and then that's not even considering any of the other a mons, particularly skuntank which turns slowking into an almost complete liability.

I can see the arguments for moving jynx out of s, but I really don't think people have truly seen her full potential yet, her speed, lovely kiss, and offensive typing are incredible and she's just as scary of a late-game mon as the other 3 s mons, if not more so just because she can completely shut down an opp with lovely kiss.

Would not be against manectric and grumpig moving up, though pig should probably stay b since it's directly outclassed by hypno and slowking for lacking instant recovery and not being able to take on physical threats as effectively, particularly medicham.
I think the best way to present my Slowking viability argument is to consider another tier. Venusaur in DPP UU is beaten by other things in S (Moltres, Arcanine) and set up on by other 'mons (physical sets can't touch Leafeon for example). Milotic is beaten by Venusaur, set up fodder for Qwilfish...
I'm not quite sure that the argument of "Slowking can be beaten" necessarily means that it can't be S rank. I'll concede though, I'm very guilty of slapping Slowking on my most of my DPP NU teams as a catch-all and I probably overhype it.

Regarding Jynx, surely a similar argument of potential can be made for many others? Raichu and Kingler are very threatening once set up. Lovely Kiss at 75% isn't accurate enough to rely on to set up with. Jynx can't be put into any old team in the same way that Charizard, Medicham and Tauros can be - and for that reason, I don't think it meets S criteria.
Speaking of Kingler though... Why is it not ranked? Double Dance is a really cool set.

Also, why is Electabuzz ranked C? Not sure I'd ever use it ahead of Raichu, Magneton or Manetric.

P.S. Dual priority Medicham doesn't run thunderpunch, and it's one of cham's most commonly run sets (in my [admittedly low level] experience in DPP NU).
 

marilli

two, but one
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Venomoth @ Leftovers
Ability: Shield Dust
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
IVs: 26 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute

Dunsparce @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
- Glare
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Return

Murkrow @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
IVs: 24 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Drill Peck
- Pursuit
- Shadow Ball

Dugtrio @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute

Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
- Substitute
- Return
- Swords Dance
- Surf


I guess I'll also post what I've been using in GSC NU. Dunsparce is a pretty cool Pokemon that I haven't really seen other people use too much, but Glare is an amazing move and everyone knows how annoying yellow magic is. 90 speed tier is pretty contested in this meta, and Pikachu is checked offensively by outspeeding it. But spamming glare / stun spore on everything makes it pretty hard to do that. Half my team carries substitute which synergizes with paralysis spam.

Dunsparce / Venomoth is a really cool supporting core to spam status everywhere and it's a great support for anything on that 90 speed tier like Pikachu, Mr Mime, and more. Make sure the rest of the team can take advantage of the bulky Rock-types and Resttalking Normal-types which don't care about the paralysis.
 

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