Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread

[Ransei]

Holy heck dramlamb. Congratulations on topping the May 2020 Leaderboards while having the most tours played by far at nearly 200.​

 

[AV Cosmoem]

I have three things to say.

ONE

Ransei

Second, I want the Seedling sample to be changed to this new and better version:

Third, I wanted to announce the pending release of Seedling II. We couldn't just stop at one M-Altaria team, could we?

 

[AV Cosmoem]

New Gen 3 Pure Hackmons sample!

Mewtwo Offense

Also, I'm gonna do another Gen 3 dump here:

Poliwrath Bulky Offense

Kabutops Hyper Offense

Rayquaza Sand Balance

Also I'm gonna tag Ransei to implement this sample

 

[AV Cosmoem]

it's AV Cosmoem with the triple post and also yet again the god tier set dump

Generation 3

Pure Classic Hackmons (before no ability clause)


Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Explosion

Explosion Groudon takes out all of the walls, like other Groudon. Everything that thinks it's safe gets obliterated by Groudon's fat Explosion. Groudon continues to prove itself as a defining Pokemon this generation.


Electrode @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Taunt
- Perish Song
- Baton Pass

Great tool on Baton Pass. Switches directly into Wobbuffet, which helps a lot. Also, it sets its own Perish Song with an immunity because of Soundproof. Because of Taunt, Wobbuffet can't use Whirlwind either.


Shedinja @ Choice Band
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Shadow Ball
- Cross Chop
- Sleep Talk

Hits all the standard stuff Shedinja counters, and uses the last slot to be a sleep switch-in. Spikes are rare, so Shedinja should be fine, though there isn't much it can beat.

Pure Hackmons


Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: No Ability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Explosion
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Best used as a lead. I didn't use it as a lead, but Slaking super pressures other leads + other Slaking with Choice Band Explosion and Tricking Slaking into Belly Drum. Even Aerodactyl falls to Explosion, though it isn't worth it and Aerodactyl loses to Trick anyway.


Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Camouflage
- Dragon Dance
- Spore
- Baton Pass

Getting Shedinja in, surviving that, and having it survive for one more turn is super hard since Spikes are big now. But pretty much nothing packs coverage for a Dragon-type, making it an amazing Wonder Guard choice. Therefore, Shedinja's strategy is to change its type to Dragon Dance, boost to +6, use Baton Pass, and win. Taunt and Whirlwind also beat this, so you better pray they don't have either.


Poliwrath @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cross Chop
- Rock Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick / Sleep Talk

Poliwrath beats Slaking since it 2HKOs it with Cross Chop, beats Ninjask with Rock Blast, Gengar with Shadow Ball, Kyogre with Water Absorb, and can switch in to sleep if it has Sleep Talk. Trick is better though. Cross Chop is also an amazing STAB type for beating off physical walls. With all these traits, you have a Pokemon that beats most of the top Pokemon.


Kabutops @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast / Rock Slide
- Explosion
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Talk

In the rain, Kabutops can survive one +6 Extreme Speed from Slaking and then use Explosion, killing it. It can also do some other stuff with Swords Dance and Rock Blast. Rock Slide can be used for more consistency, though.


Slaking @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Ability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Ball
- Mach Punch

This version of Slaking has Mach Punch to beat Kabutops. It now loses to Skarmory, though.


Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Thunder / Dragon Claw
- Sleep Talk

Kyogre turns the tables on its natural counters with Thunder or Dragon Claw. Thunder hits Poliwrath super effectively, while Dragon Claw nails Rayquaza and Camouflage Shedinja. With Sleep Talk, it retains its role as a sleep switch-in as two of its other moves are attacks.


Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Dragon Claw
- Flamethrower
- Leaf Blade

This Rayquaza was used on a Sand build, where it could use Air Lock to avoid getting chipped by Sand and could also switch into Kyogre. After a Tail Glow, it defeats all of the main threats in the metagame, though it misses out on Mega Altaria, of course.

Generation 4


religod (Relicanth) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Spikes
- Recover
- Perish Song

Relicanth's main purpose is a counter to Huge Power. Many Huge Powers run the combination of Fire Fang and Dragon Claw, to hit Palkia who has a 4x resistance to Fire Fang. This combo completely misses Relicanth, who can in turn trap and remove the threat. Its massive Defense, reaching higher than Suicune, allows it to take Fire Fang even at +6. Electric and Fighting weaknesses are bad, though.


Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost / Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

A lead set. I used this over Deoxys-Attack because that was too suicide leady for the team I had it on. It's great at getting Stealth Rock up with its fast Taunt. Psycho Boost can be used for an immediate nuke, but Psychic brings consistency.


Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Perish Song
- Spikes
- Encore
- Knock Off

Knock Off is a crap move in Gen 4. Only 20 BP. However, Knock Off is the best option to safely remove only the target's item and comes with the bonus of being unblockable by Taunt. This removes the Shed Shell that slower, more passive Pokemon like weather leads need to stay alive throughout the match. Arceus can then do its normal Shadow Tag stuff.

Generation 5


Froslass (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Blizzard
- Earth Power
- Spore

I was part of the Cold Shower team, but my final product heavily differed from the actual team we ended up with. Most notably, my usage of Mold Breaker Froslass instead of the Prankster variant the others agreed upon solidified my team as a different entity. The Cold Shower team is essentially a semi-stall that was about getting a Prankster in at the right time, but my team was a much more offensive variant about pivoting with Wonder Guards into Mold Breakers. Mold Breaker Froslass's main advantage over others was its Ghost-typing, granting an immunity to Extreme Speed. This makes offensively revenge killing it much harder to do. It still hits hard after a Shell Smash.


Mamoswine (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Earthquake

While the others used Snow Warning Regice, I decided to use Mamoswine instead for its Stealth Rock neutrality. I picked it over the bulkier Piloswine for the ability to use Shed Shell, and a much stronger Earthquake.


Mamoswine (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Copycat
- Nature Power

I also used Prankster Mamoswine, which caused confusion between this Mamoswine and the Snow Warning one. Prankster Mamoswine is one of the strongest Pranksters available with the benefit of a Hail immunity. Its Nature Powers are almost as strong as Groudon's, and it can perform nearly as well. Its worse defensive typing sets it back, however.


Meloetta-Pirouette @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Crunch

This is dramlamb's set, but Meloetta Pirouette Form can KO Mold Breakers if they attempt to sweep with Shell Smash. It's one of the main reasons why Mold Breaker Froslass was added to my team, as blocking offensive priority is a huge bonus.

Generation 6


Palkia @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog

This was used as an improof to Mold Breaker Primal Groudon with Spore. Palkia's 4x V-create resist makes it completely null, and Steam Eruption ends Imposter right there. The spread outspeeds Adamant Primal Groudon so that Palkia can heal or use Steam Eruption first.


Gardevoir-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Psystrike
- Moonblast
- Searing Shot

Amazing breaker, after a Shell Smash it can OHKO just about every Pokemon in the game. Plus, it's free to run Focus Sash unlike many other Mold Breakers (Mega Gengar, Mega Latios, Gyarados). The dual STAB on Psystrike and Moonblast makes its attacks extra powerful. You can't really improof this easily though. Your options are limited to Zen Mode Darmanitan and Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, which is only a check.


Groudon-Primal @ Earth Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Gastro Acid
- Baton Pass

This puts insane pressure on the opponent, since Earth Plate Judgment threatens a lot of Pokemon, especially in conjunction with Gastro Acid since not that many Wonder Guards actually resist Ground. Against Flying-type Pokemon, it's only threatened by Water Shuriken Gyarados; at any other time, it can Baton Pass its boosts to another Pokemon. Since it's so easy to get a Shell Smash with Primal Groudon, this is extremely threatening. Improofed by any Normal resist with Prankster or Magic Bounce. This is best done with Magic Bounce Giratina.

Generation 7


Badeline (Banette-Mega) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Me First
- Copycat
- Taunt
- Shadow Sneak

Prank MBane does some very funny Prank stuff, this is for HO and Shadow Sneak lets it revenge Gar + revenge other stuff. Me First and Copycat also let it revenge the other stuff with other moves. Taunt stops them from stallbreaking you and also guarantees that Me First will do a lot of damage.


Zygarde-Complete @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Electrify
- Encore
- Perish Song
- Thousand Waves

Electrify trapper Zyg-C. Electrifies all their attacks and if they use a status move you Encore them and destroy them with Perish Song. Mainly loses to Taunt and Spore.


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mago Berry
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Heal Order
- Volt Switch

"Bulky" Innards Out MMY as opposed to suicide lead ones, this MMY set is designed to lay Spikes during the entire match while providing a counter to setup at the same time. Great set, since it so heavily pressures offense and fat alike.


Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Fissure
- Spore
- Gastro Acid

I stole this set but Pidgeot can trap something, then use Pidgeotite to Mega Evolve and remove them. 121 Speed for a No Guard limits you to trapping defensive threats tho, and Pidgeot doesn't excel against Wonder Guards, so random utility mons it is.


Gengar-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Bug Buzz

Bug Buzz hits Meloetta, which is a broken WG and as such has been efficiently countered. Now Mega Gengar can proceed to sweep the rest of the team, even though Mega Audino is a more common Mega Gengar counter and you don't hit it. Bug Buzz also hits through Substitute which means Subpass has been destroyed too. Absolutely decimated.


Beedrill-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Dragon Ascent
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thousand Arrows

Huge Power with an amazing speed tier and Attack stat, which it showcases with a variety of moves to hit Pokemon like Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Gengar that Mega Mewtwo X would miss. Easily improofed by any fat Water WG.


Alomomola @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- Spiky Shield
- U-turn
- Parting Shot

Here's the fat Water WG. Alomomola is still in, Wishpass Balance is one of the strongest archetypes in Gen 7 if performed correctly. Since I used such bulky offense behemoths as Mega Beedrill and Mega Diancie, it's safe to say that I mastered Gen 7 PH. Every other player, go home now before you get destroyed.


Gengar-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Searing Shot
- Shell Smash
- Trick

Stole from the god builder himself Ransei, this traps and kills stuff, while trapping and killing some other stuff. Just what STag does.


Garchomp-Mega @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Dragon Hammer
- Thousand Arrows
- Sacred Fire

No real wall for this, except like Megabro and Mega Altaria. The latter no longer exists, and the former is Megabro, so basically no walls. And Fini I guess. And Primal Kyogre. Basically fat waters check this after Smash, you deal with this by either having Xern or just using Smash again.


Gyarados-Mega (M) @ Fairy Memory
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Multi-Attack
- Thousand Arrows
- Photon Geyser

Outclasses Smash Xern right there. Gyara is immune to Imp's Photon, making it completely self-improof while gaining access to moldy moves. OP set and will destroy the meta as we see it.


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Sludge Wave

I have no idea if I talked about this set before but it's broken, people like spamming frail stuff under Psychic Surge thinking they're safe, then bam Scarf PBond MMY swoops in and ends its life. An amazing revenge killer which is bolstered further by Psychic Surge, making it an excellent choice on Psyspam since it has few walls there.


Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Steam Eruption
- Moongeist Beam
- Substitute

Top tier WGs crap on this set, but if you remove the top tier WGs with any Huge Power, suddenly you win the game. At least if you can set up +1, which is super easy to do because of Substitute and Kyogre's incredible offensive presence.


Aerodactyl-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
- Spikes
- Spore

Great lead set since it's self-improof, make sure to bring a mon that can Defog on this set like Safety Goggles Mega Scizor. Or just Spore their Imp first. That also works.


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Play Rough
- Thousand Arrows
- Sacred Fire

Yes, Huge Power MMY. What makes this appealing is that it's a Huge Power with Photon Geyser STAB, high Attack, crazy speed, and respectable bulk, that outspeeds MMX and MGar. It's MMX with extra benefits. It is a god, and should be treated as such.


Pyroar @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Baton Pass
- Stealth Rock
- Spectral Thief

Only WG that's immune to Moongeist Beam while resisting Sunsteel Strike. This was used to compensate for the fact that the team it was placed on was garbage and had no good back up to most moldy moves. The Moongeist Beam immunity took priority since it's the best moldy move.


Lunala @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Photon Geyser
- Moongeist Beam
- Judgment

With two 4x weaknesses, a very high HP stat, and STAB on two Moldy Moves, Lunala makes for an incredibly threatening Innards Out Smasher. Its natural Defense and Special Defense are good, though, which sets it back.


Tyranitar-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- Pursuit
- Parting Shot

Mega Tyranitar's typing has a bunch of weaknesses that can be easily exploited, but it also has a resistance to Ghost, Flying, Fire, and Normal, and an immunity to Psychic, as well as Pursuit STAB. This makes it an amazing choice for anti-Psychic and anti-Ghost, since a sturdy Ghost resistance is very important in the metagame. It also improofs the Innards Out Lunala directly, because of Pixie Plate Judgment becoming Normal-type, which it resists. This allows Lunala to break Dark-types as usual without bothering Mega Tyrantar.


Lunala @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 212 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Recover
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

A variation of Curse Giratina, Lunala's main perks are its Photon Geyser resistance and minimal amount of weaknesses, when compared to Giratina who has many different weaknesses. Though it doesn't have the legendary bulk of Giratina, Lunala is a formidable defensive Pokemon that can hold its own. This set also combines Wonder Guard and Curse, another thing Giratina can't do.


Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fissure
- Sing
- Gastro Acid
- Gravity

Gravity lets Deoxys-Speed reach Pokemon that it couldn't before, such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Aerodactyl. The rest of the set is standard.


Metagross-Mega @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Evoboost
- Searing Sunraze Smash
- Light That Burns the Sky
- Catastropika

Standard Leppa Harvest set, but Catastropika hits Mega Gyarados, which otherwise walls Mega Metagross stone cold. That's about it.


Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Sacred Fire
- Thousand Arrows

CB STag MMX traps and removes Wonder Guards easily with its stellar coverage. However, there is a noticeable lack of power: this MMX misses out on many OHKOs or 2HKOs that Huge Power MMX would not.


Audino-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heart Swap
- Photon Geyser
- Recover
- Baton Pass

Stolen from Ransei again, this Mega Audino uses Heart Swap to take Mega Gengar's boosts and then uses Photon Geyser to OHKO it. It can then Baton Pass the boosts to another Pokemon. Photon Geyser allows it to come out on top against Mega Gengar even if it has Taunt.


Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Perish Song
- Strength Sap
- Encore
- Spikes

Strength Sap allows for the easy trapping of physically offensive Pokemon. Steelixite is so that CB Pokemon can't Trick and ruin the setup. Mega Steelix's Ground typing also blocks Volt Switch, and it's also free to set Spikes during Encore turns.


Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Rapid Spin Yveltal is great for hazard stack, since it pressures spinblockers extremely, except for Magic Bounce Giratina which is a rare sight. As for Mega Gengar however it uses the combination of Pursuit and Sucker Punch to remove it once it comes in to spinblock. Setting Toxic Spikes also brings an incentive for Mega Gengar to come in, allowing Yveltal to safely remove it.

That's my set dump, come again for more goodstuffs

 

[Tmi489]

Amazing breaker, after a Shell Smash it can OHKO just about every Pokemon in the game. Plus, it's free to run Focus Sash unlike many other Mold Breakers (Mega Gengar, Mega Latios, Gyarados). The dual STAB on Psystrike and Moonblast makes its attacks extra powerful. You can't really improof this easily though. Your options are limited to Zen Mode Darmanitan and Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, which is only a check.

mold mgar doesnt need to run spooky plate but then impostor takes it over, just like mgardi

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Play Rough
- Thousand Arrows
- Sacred Fire

Yes, Huge Power MMY. What makes this appealing is that it's a Huge Power with Photon Geyser STAB, high Attack, crazy speed, and respectable bulk, that outspeeds MMX and MGar. It's MMX with extra benefits. It is a god, and should be treated as such.

where is moongeist

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Mono in PH, Gen 4 Edition

I have no idea what makes a good team in gen 4 so let's go

Normal



Arceus is OP, for reasons. Also you have to pair it with Girafarig, sad. Slaking and Regigigas perform various roles that I don't care to talk about. Blissey is a special wall that does special wall stuff. Togekiss can be a spinner since it's immune to Spikes. Everything else sucks.

Fire



Ho-Oh is now the best Fire mon, it will do Huge Power and Wonder Guard and Magic Guard and Chlorophyll and that other shit. Entei is an accompanying WG which does various stuff, Camerupt can do the same various stuff but with a Stealth Rock neutrality to spin. Ho-Oh can also spin cause of the Spikes immunity. Apparently people use Infernape to set sun for some unknown reason. Magcargo blocks Huge Power with its 4x resistance to Fire Fang. Heatran?

Water



Yay water! Palkia is a god WG and also a cool MB user in the rain. Kyogre can set Rain, or if you really wanna counter other weather you can go ahead and run Gastrodon. Relicanth beats Dragon Claw users for Palkia. Gyarados is also a WG and also probably better than Relicanth. Swampert is also very cool. Tentacruel can also set Rain and absorb Toxic Spikes. Suicune is fat, it probably does stuff.

Electric



Oh. Raikou can, in fact, do stuff. Electrode can also do stuff. Zapdos has that Ground immunity so it's worth something. I seriously have no idea what to do with Electric, it's so bad.

Grass



My first version of this was "LOOOOOOOOOOL". Abomasnow and Ludicolo are the only WGs not weak to Ice, so you have to use them. Cradily is also required to absorb Flying-type attacks, and Venusaur rounds out the Bug and Poison matchups. Yes, you need four WGs in order for Grass to function. You can dump Flash Fire Celebi, for the Fighting resist, on this mess too. I'm not exactly sure what else you're supposed to run. Mold Breaker Skymin sounds cool. Like Gen 4 Grass is actually the worst type I've ever seen in Mono PH.

Ice



The Lapras/Mamoswine/Froslass core from Gen 5 takes over in this gen too. Fire Fang being spammed makes this a crappy core, though. No Kyurem White yet, so Ice is starved of good attackers; the best you have is Weavile. Mamoswine itself can also be an attacker, maybe Jynx. Jynx can actually replace Froslass in the Wonder Guard trio if you use it, since you can confuse your opponent by breaking Species Clause. You can also use a Flash Fire user, and a lot of stuff works. Froslass, Mamoswine, Articuno. It's not required, but it helps. All in all, compared to Grass, Ice is a goldmine.

Fighting



Fighting sucked hard last gen, and in this gen it's still not the best, though it has improved. You still have the help of Lucario, and Poliwrath can absorb Fire Fang for it, but that's all Fighting has going for it. A good WG core. Infernape performs various roles such as being a user of Fire Fang itself, and it's a nice boost to the type. Blaziken can also do what Infernape does, but trades speed for power. Gallade is a potential WG, but if you use it, use a Flash Fire user alongside it. Breloom is probably the best one because of the Electric and Grass resistance. In the end, Fighting is actually better than I thought it would be, I just assumed the train wreck of last gen would carry here.

Poison



Somehow, Poison manages to be a consistently good type. I'm not talking good like usable, the standards in Gen 4 are low, but compared to the rest it's a good type. Mold Breaker Gengar can finally shine since it doesn't have to Imposter-proof itself. Drapion is the go-to WG here, with Ground coverage being rare it basically has no weaknesses. Ariados is definitely not mandatory, you can straight up run two Drapion, but it's usable in case you run into some dumbass trying to counter sand. If you do run Ariados, Flash Fire Venusaur works excellently beside it, having a resistance to all of Fighting, Electric, and Grass. Poison is pretty OK this time around.

Ground



Swampert is very important, with a resistance to all of Ground's weakness except Grass. Camerupt covers the Grass weakness and still has an immunity to Ice. Groudon can come in clutch with those huge stats. Garchomp can come in handy with powerful Dragon STAB + Ground STAB for Steels. The main problem with Ground is that it's bad, and being bad leads to underperformance.

Flying



Gyarados covers up a bunch of Flying's weaknesses. Skarmory can account for Rock-type attacks. You're going to need a 3rd WG, since no Flying-type is neutral to both Electric and Ice. Gliscor is the best option, due to its Electric immunity even when facing mold Breakers and its secondary Rock neutrality. Rayquaza and Ho-Oh cover most of the offensive fronts, with Huge Power, Magic Guard, and Mold Breaker roles being taken care of well. No Guard Ninjask or Aerodactyl would also be a big boon, furthering the offensive pressure from Ho-Oh and Rayquaza. Lugia could also perform some roles, with its big fat defenses. Flying isn't great, but it's not bad either.

Psychic



Once again, Jirachi carries Psychic. Pairing up with Deoxys Speed is a good idea, since you can use both Wonder Guard and No Guard to confuse the opponent, and Gastro Acid does exist. Mold Breaker Latios can ez sweep and win the game. Deo-A can Huge Power its way through stuff, in case that's still used. Mewtwo can Mewtwo the game, whatever that is. He influences the game in his own specific way. Remember Femtwo in the Genesect movie? Man that shit was wack. Anyway, Lugia and Cresselia can once again help with their fat. Flash Fire Celebi be doin the anti-offense. The end, Psychic is good.

Bug



Still a joke but not as bad as Grass. Scizor and Armaldo cover all the shit right there. Scizor is the best choice for a Flash Fire, but believe it or not, Wormadam is right up there with it due to its resistance to Electric. The offensive threats on Bug are a complete joke. Your choices are Heracross and No Guard Ninjask. Wonderful.

Rock



Rock is only worthwhile with a sand build. Probopass is your best bet, though Regirock works. No Guard Aerodactyl is basically required, the second fastest thing is Kabutops at a blazing 80. Armaldo can work as a WG again, soaking up Fighting, Grass, and Ground in one slot. Relicanth completes a perfect synergy. The final Pokemon should be offensive, something like Tyranitar. Rock still sucks.

Ghost



Finally, Giratina-Origin! Scrappy does exist, but no one uses it, so you can use two Spiritomb ez. Regular Giratina does fat stuff and Gengar does Gengar stuff. Ghost is good, the end.

Dragon



Probably the best type. Dialga and Palkia once again serve as a powerful WG core. Offensive threats are beaming everywhere: Rayquaza, Latios, Palkia, and even more. Regular Giratina once again does fat stuff, and Giratina-Origin does Tina-O stuff. Garchomp can take down Steels for the rest of the tema. In conclusion, Dragon OP.

Dark



Once again, two Spiritomb. This time we have WG Drapion to absorb Toxic Spikes. Weavile is for that fat Pursuit. I have no idea what Darkrai does, but it's ranked so it must be good. Maybe Umbreon? Can't think of anything else so here you go.

Steel



Skarmory and Dialga form a perfect WG core. Skarmory is also a great spinner and Flash Fire user, which helps the team. Dialga can also be a breaker with Mold Breaker. Mold Breaker Scizor is also threatening, with Mold Breaker U-turns being a big problem for types like Psychic. Registeel is a great mixed wall too. Jirachi be doin Jirachi stuff. Heatran?

There we go, and no I'm not making teams. But I will put my tier list down.

Top: Dragon, Water
High: Ghost, Psychic, Normal
Mid: Steel, Flying, Dark, Fighting
Low: Ground, Poison, Ice, Rock
Bottom: Fire, Electric, Bug, Grass

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Gen 3 Core Compendium

Hello! Today I decided to start the Gen 3 Core Compendium, which lists a lot of the great cores you can use. Happy reading!

Offensive Cores

Slaking + Kyogre by AV Cosmoem
Poliwrath + Mewtwo by AV Cosmoem
Groudon + Rayquaza by AV Cosmoem

Balanced Cores

Ninjask + Slaking by AV Cosmoem
Shedinja + Skarmory + Slaking by AV Cosmoem
Slaking + Skarmory by AV Cosmoem

Defensive Cores

Aggron + Gengar by AV Cosmoem
Ninjask + Aggron by AV Cosmoem
Groudon + Tentacruel by AV Cosmoem

Those are all of the cores I have now. If you want to submit any, just post in the thread and I'll happily add it!

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Monotype in PH, Gen 3

I've been waiting so long to do this, let's go

Normal
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

As expected, Normal has reached a peak within Pure Hackmons, all because of Slaking. We all know the horrors of Slaking, so let's see how Normal turns out. Choice Band or Utility Slaking are great lead sets, since they pressure other leads a lot. Vigoroth has a sleep immunity, which could prove useful. Offensive Slaking is obvious, and Utility Slaking is a great supporter and physical wall. Note that walls includes support Pokemon. Offensive Swellow looks useless at first glance, though. The problem is, Normal has no Ninjask, and therefore no way to reliably pass Speed boosts. This means that Normal struggles against Gengar. However, Swellow is naturally faster than Gengar, so it can defeat it by using Shadow Ball before it can use Encore. Its Flying-type also gives it a neutrality to Cross Chop, helping out Slaking by dealing with Pokemon that only have Ghost/Fighting coverage, like DD Taunt Slaking. Here's my take on Normal: https://pokepast.es/f16d713d124cb298

Fire
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Fire is atrocious and has horrible matchups against the top types. Normal, in particular, decimates it. Rapidash is the only Pokemon that outspeeds Slaking, and as such must function as the Slaking check. It's the lead because of it being the fastest, and can Protect or Substitute on Explosion leads. Three Choice Band Jolly Rapidash are also required with Extreme Speed, as multiple blows of it will be needed to defeat Slaking after a Belly Drum. This is why Spikes is so important on Fire, to whittle down Slaking that switch in. Moltres has the same Spe as Ho-Oh, and higher SpA, so it outclasses it as an attacker. Moltres serves as a Tail Glow user, aiming for the weak special side of many teams. Finally, Magcargo can take one neutral hit from Slaking and retaliate with Counter. Here's my take on Fire: https://pokepast.es/19c869508398e947

Water
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Water is a prominent type in Gen 3 due to the number of strong Water threats there are. Kyogre is the optimal lead because of rain setting. It's also the best wall, considering its amazing defensive stats. At least two Kyogres are preferred because if a Groudon or a Tyranitar switches in, you can just re-set rain right there. Kabutops is a catch-all Slaking check, which is amazing to have. Poliwrath does all of its usual stuff, and can handle things that Kyogre has more trouble with like Ninjask and Gengar. Gyarados is a useful tool to assist Water in its shortcomings in the matchup against physical attackers in general, and Gyarados is also the best Rapid Spin user on Water. It can also function as a Dragon Dance user, as Flying-type STAB is useful to Water. Ludicolo can be used to beat Quagsire. Here's my take on Water: https://pokepast.es/7629c030cc8ea113

Electric
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Electric is one of those types that loses to Cross Chop Slaking, aka most types, so Spikes it is. Thus the Electrode lead. The attacking Raikou is the same deal as Rapidash on Fire, but Electrode is amazing at getting Spikes up, meaning you only have to run two Choice Band Raikou at minimum. Magneton takes a Normal/Ghost/Rock-type attack from Slaking and 2HKOs it with Thunder, though it can OHKO if any Spikes are up. Magneton also traps and eliminates Rapid Spin Skarmory. Electrode can support the team in the back as well, re-setting Spikes after Rapid Spin. Here's my take on Electric: https://pokepast.es/4b214b156fb91f36

Grass
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Oh. Um...Grass is a train wreck. I refuse to build for it. Next.

Ice
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Well, we haven't exactly improved here. Sneasel is the fastest Ice mon, which is basically lead qualification. Delibird has that hot sleep immunity tho. Cloyster is a big physical wall, and it might just survive an Extreme Speed from +6 Slaking, though the chances ae low: about 30%. You're gonna have to spam the shit out of Choice Band Extreme Speed Sneasel if you want to live against boosted Slaking. Articuno is neutral to Cross Chop, which is good enough to get on a team. Here's my take on Ice: https://pokepast.es/f1ebe57583bb8ff3

Fighting
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Primeape is the fastest Pokemon on Fighting, which is incredibly sad. The important part about Primeape, though, is that it's immune to sleep. This helps it do whatever leads do. Spikes aren't actually that important to Fighting since everything nukes Slaking anyway. Poliwrath can also devastate Water. This makes Fighting, in an absolutely horrifying turn, a top tier type. Medicham with Choice Band is a 720 Attack behemoth and can destroy everything in her path. Poliwrath counters Water with Water Absorb, leaving only Thunder Kyogre and Gyarados that beat Poliwrath. Thunder Kyogre can be dealt with by Breloom, a strong Choice Band user. Gyarados absolutely steamrolls Fighting since they don't have a Flying neutrality, but they do have Intimidate Hitmontop which can help. Blaziken can serve as a special attacker with Sacred Fire STAB. Here's my take on Fighting: https://pokepast.es/92f4794095422c02

Poison
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Poison is only worth using because of Gengar. It has more mons than Ghost, and Gengar is huge, so Poison ends up good. Crobat is a very fast Pokemon, so it's a good lead. Ariados can also lead for a sleep immunity, but it sucks in every other regard. It can be used in the back, tho, and it's a lot better there. If Gengar didn't exist, we would have to load up the Choice Band Crobat squad, but we don't! Yay! This of course means that Swellow is the worst possible matchup for Poison to face, so we're gonna have to load up two of the Choice Band Crobat squad. The good news is that Swellow is super frail, so that makes up for the Spikes immunity. Here's my take on Poison: https://pokepast.es/952201112a788f93

Ground
Leads:
Attackers
Walls:

Obviously Groudon is gonna carry Ground, that shit is omnipotent. Quagsire directly counters Kyogre, like completely gone. Also it counters Water as a whole, unless they have Ludicolo or something. Steelix is a humongous ass physical wall that can actually beat Slaking. All in all, Ground is a great type even though they don't have that many mons. Here's my take on Ground: https://pokepast.es/7e4334132ffc74bb

Flying
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

I knew Flying was gonna be a great type from the start, seeing how many types I previously covered lost to it. Ninjask is an obvious lead, being able to pass Speed boosts is amazing in Monotype. Aerodactyl is also a lead choice, but you miss out on a lot compared to Ninjask. Dodrio can do what Swellow does in Normal thanks to Ninjask's support. Swellow can have Speed benefits immediately, though. Flying has Skarmory, an amazing physical wall fighting off the likes of Slaking, Groudon, and Poliwrath. Rayquaza can directly switch into Kyogre, Tail Glow, and eliminate it with one Volt Tackle after one layer of Spikes. If Kyogre has Dragon Claw, Mantine can cover it. Rayquaza can also run CB, DD, or whatever else it runs. Murkrow has a sleep immunity. Here's my take on Flying: https://pokepast.es/25d1cd1b811b2264

Psychic
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Psychic has hit a low point after years of dominating the competitive scene. Deoxys-Speed can debilitate Ninjask because of its fast speed, and also sets Spikes very well. Mewtwo is a great attacker, and mostly just spams whatever coverage it wants. You might want Choice Band Deoxys-Attack for the strong Extreme Speed, though. Metagross is a Steel-type, and thus the wall. Steel/Psychic is a bad wall type tho, no more Ghost resistance. Psychic isn't really that good now, sadly. Here's my take on Psychic: https://pokepast.es/195cb841c6ea3c1a

Bug
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

When all of your weaknesses are relevant, that sucks. Ninjask is big for the sole reason of being Ninjask, and is probably the biggest boon to the type. Heracross is a big anti-Slaking Pokemon with its Fighting-type. Venomoth is a Tail Glow user, because Bug is basically at the mercy of Ground. Forretress is one of the best Slaking walls you could possibly get, which is one of the factors that makes Bug not trash. Ariados has the sleep immunity, we all know this from Poison. Here's my take on Bug: https://pokepast.es/4363b125afe5d535

Rock
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Because of the way Gen 3 decided to work, Psychic is a whatever type, while Rock is good. Aerodactyl was already one of the best leads, so you can just use that. Tyranitar can set sand, which is great when your whole team is immune. Also, it has amazing stats. Kabutops can be an OTR mon, but with rain. Aggron is the main thing that makes Rock good, since it's one of the best physical walls in standard play. It pairs well with Solrock, since it has an immunity to Ground and a neutrality to Fighting. Here's my take on Rock: https://pokepast.es/47a0324cd8cae470

Ghost
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Ghost suffers from a severe lack of mon count. The good news is that they're the best possible type to use Spikes on, since once they're set, you can't clear them. Obviously Gengar carries Ghost. CB Banette gives us a sleep immunity and a Choice Band user in the same slot, which is very epic. It can also be an Insomnia cleric. Shedinja walls Kyogre, which is useful. Dusclops walls a bunch of other stuff, which is also useful. You're basically re-using the same mons for different purposes, but Ghost remains great nonetheless. Here's my take on Ghost: https://pokepast.es/887f5953785f7602

Dragon
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

The only time when the Latis are usable. The lead ones are best used with Lum, as with any lead not named Ninjask. Rayquaza is the catch-all attacker, but Latios is usable if you wanna outspeed something. Most importantly, it's the Choice Band Extreme Speed user. Kingdra has that OTR but with rain aspect that Kabutops does on Rock. Latias is just a big fat wall, and Flygon has a Rock Blast resistance for Rayquaza. Dragon is really unimpressive this gen, since there are almost no mons. Here's my take on Dragon: https://pokepast.es/8371b441696b9457

Dark
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Oh. Sneasel is the fastest Dark-type, so it's the lead again. Tyranitar has massive stats on Dark, and is also the closest thing you will get to a Slaking check. Just in case, you should run three Choice Band Extreme Speed Sneasel. This leaves us with one slot. Yippee. Murkrow is probably the best choice, since it can be an Insomnia cleric, but you could also run Houndoom, a special attacker and an Early Bird user, which is sort of a sleep immunity. Here's my take on Dark: https://pokepast.es/a378b040fb0fe0f9

Steel
Leads:
Attackers:
Walls:

Yay, a type with security against Slaking! Aggron and Skarmory together cover all of the Slaking variants you'll see. This leaves Choice Band Metagross and Magnet Pull Magneton to do stuff! Jirachi is the lead cause it's fast. It can also attack, if you want it to or something. Here's my take on Steel: https://pokepast.es/15ad3d63ba22e0ca

And that's the Gen 3 mono post!

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Seedling II is OUT!

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Gris - Peaked at #2

proof of peak

Hihi everyone! I'm making a mini-RMT on this team because it got me to #2, and I know that's a really crappy GXE but it's because I tested all sorts of teams on the ladder. When I actually used Gris I never lost a single game on the ladder. On to the team!

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Psystrike
- Moonblast
- Searing Shot

OK TBH this contributed the least out of every member, but a Mold Breaker is super super important, because otherwise you're going to struggle with the huge amount of defensive options. This was a Mega Gardevoir for the longest time, since I saw potential in its huge SpA stat and also Moonblast STAB, which put it at a level of power above MMY when dealing with Dragons and Darks. Giratina was notably 2HKO'd from full unboosted. However when PH hit the ladder Mega Gardevoir was just too slow to reliably set up Shell Smash. Mega Mewtwo Y though was super super fast, it outsped base 130s which was super useful in a team slot. It was also weak to Dark, which is good for reasons you'll find out later.

Blissey (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Glare
- Recover
- Magic Coat
- Parting Shot

Blissey was a huge contributor in the team, mostly because of its typing. A Normal-type Wonder Guard walls all sorts of stuff, since not that much runs Fighting-type coverage. This is also one of the best movesets for Blissey, and allows it to really abuse Normal WGs being broken. Glare is an absolute lifesaver, since para was completely busted before Gen 7 nerfed it. A 50% chance to be fully paralyzed and 25% speed is crazy. If the target is weak to one of the moves my Huge Powers carry they're basically null factors in the game. Magic Coat lets you do all sorts of stuff: annoy Mega Slowbro, bounce hazards, block No Guard, and more. It also helps since Blissey is super super slow. I haven't actually seen a Shadow Tag user on the ladder yet but Blissey is a super important mon on the team so you want it to be safe.

Beedrill-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Aromatherapy
- Defog
- U-turn

Mega Beedrill is the latest addition to the team and it has been super helpful, it's the fastest Pokemon on the team and it can blow back Psychic-types with its super powerful U-turns. I thought the no recovery thing would be bad especially since this is my cleric and it has a Rocks weakness but the fast U-turns make that pretty much a null point since Mega Beedrill can switch in, use a status move, and then instantly U-turn out. I chose Mega Beedrill since it's the only viable Wonder Guard that can actually absorb Toxic Spikes, and for its crazy U-turns. The reason for this is because the ladder tends to love No Guard, and if even one of them carries Fissure I will be at a really big disadvantage, and if you really want consistency in this meta you have to make sure there are NO Ice/Ground weaknesses on your WGs. So the only WG type that can absorb Toxic Spikes and fill this in is Bug/Poison. This mon is a ton of fun to use and everyone should try it out.

Giratina @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Curse
- Baton Pass

I spent forever trying to find the optimal set for Giratina and I found it. A lot of people run Prankster Spore but Baton Pass is a million times better because the pressure Giratina exerts on the opposing team gives you a lot of chances to just Baton Pass over, like right after a Curse instead of clicking Recover you just Baton Pass over to MMY or a Huge Power and gain huge momentum, possibly winning the game. Prank Recover and Giratina's incredible bulk and typing make it just about the fattest mon in the game, and it tanks even super effective hits. Giratina is also a nice way of combatting WGs that you can't currently hit, since Prankster Curse can get just about anything.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Shed Shell
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Gear Grind
- Sacred Fire
- Thousand Arrows

This MMX is pretty standard, but we'll have to talk about it since I put it on the team. Giratina is a super good wall to Mega Aerodactyl so Shed Shell does work on MMX. All of this coverage should be self-explanatory, but if it's not, I will explain it. Bolt Strike hits Gyarados and Primal Kyogre, which are two super good WGs, and the former is being spammed all over the ladder. Gear Grind hits Mega Audino and Xerneas, and Xerneas can't threaten MMX usually because it lacks Moonblast, though watch out if you're switching in. The combination of Sacred Fire and Thousand Arrows rids of all Steel-type WGs, but more importantly, Thousand Arrows OHKOs Primal Groudon, which is being used a lot on the ladder. Anyway, this is just standard MMX being used with coverage spam.

Tyranitar-Mega @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Play Rough

When thinking about the final member, I pondered long and hard about which mon to use, but eventually I picked Mega Tyranitar. This was because back when I picked it, I was still using Mega Gardevoir with a plate, and this was an appropriate improof. And let me just say, this is the perfect glue and it patches up all of the problems the team had before. Pursuit 2HKOs Giratina and OHKOs Mega Gengar, and Mega Tyranitar can live a Secret Sword at full health. That's if they don't switch out. Sucker Punch is the most important move on Mega Tyranitar, and it gives the team more speed control. As I said, Mega Mewtwo Y is weak to Dark, which allows Mega Tyranitar to OHKO Imposter with Sucker Punch. It also OHKOs MMX, and pretty much every Pokemon that isn't a sturdy resist along with it. Drain Punch lets Mega Tyranitar easily combat Normal WGs, since it actually does have a resistance to Normal and Ghost, and its Lum Berry stops Spore. This was unintended, but makes Mega Tyranitar one of the best ways to combat Normal-type Wonder Guards. Play Rough OHKOs Yveltal, a super strong mon which gives trouble for MMY, Mega Beedrill, and Giratina. They never see it coming either. All in all, this mon has pulled its weight in many, many games.

 

[Ransei]

Usually in PH generations there are always lots of interesting tech you can use for various sets. Generation 7 is no exception and I'd like to expose everyone to one of my favorites.


The Ghost-type pursuit trapper.

Ghost-type pursuit trappers are designed to carry Protective Pads in order to deal with Innards Out Chansey. I recommend running Pursuit on Giratina, Mega Banette, Dawn Wings, or Lunala since they are all viable Ghost-types with high Attack. This post however, will focus on another Ghost-type I recommend the move to be used on, but may perhaps be its best user.

The reason why Ghost-types are amazing against most Chansey is because they can switch into them without the fear of getting hit by a potential Final Gambit. However, Mega Sableye also has Wonder Guard, so Chansey cannot try to cheese with Scrappy either.

Here's a recent set I've created


Sableye-Mega @ Protective Pads
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Pursuit
- Recover
- [Hazard] (Either Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, or Sticky Web]
- King's Shield

All Innards Out Chansey are trapped and KOed by this beast, which is fantastic. They cannot do much back either aside from inflicting status under specific sets. With the max Atk EVs given it can ensure OHKOing the standard Chansey.

252 Atk Sableye-Mega Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 0- Def Chansey: 888-1045 (126.3 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Chansey staying in)

It can also OHKO Innards Out Lunala and Dawn Wings if they have min Def investment:

252 Atk Sableye-Mega Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Lunala: 568-672 (118.8 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Lunala switching out)
252 Atk Sableye-Mega Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 468-552 (117.8 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Dawn Wings switching out)

It can even deal with a min Def Innards Out Mega Mewtwo Y switching out:

252 Atk Sableye-Mega Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 356-422 (85.5 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. (100% OHKO if +Atk nature. The set in my teambuilder currently has Adamant. I changed it to Relaxed here since Adamant isn't needed for most of these KOs. It would also be able to survive against Lunala, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Dawn Wings better.)

Aside from Pursuit this Mega Sableye just does general Wonder Guard things. This specific set throws hazards up and takes advantage of full physical Mega Mewtwo X's restriction to Play Rough. It can just use King's Shield, run Recover, then repeat or switch into another wall.

This is Pursuit Mega Sableye for ya. Have fun.

 

[berry]

Six years ago I posted this RMT displaying an old Classic Hackmons team I used back on the 2014 ladder. At the time, I thought it was one of the best teams I had ever built, since it allowed me to get a pretty insane record (to me at that time). Looking at the team now it's obviously very flawed, but I'd like to appreciate what I did right and what the team taught me about Hackmons in the post-classic oldshark era.

CULT CLASSIC

Kyurem-Black @ Focus Sash
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Pursuit
- ExtremeSpeed
- Stealth Rock

Scizor-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Powder
- U-turn
- Magic Coat
- Sacred Fire

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Heal Order
- Waterfall
- ExtremeSpeed

Aggron-Mega @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Defog
- Wish
- Aromatherapy

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sing
- Sheer Cold
- Entrainment
- Mean Look

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- King's Shield
- Milk Drink
- Perish Song

My first success with this team came from abusing an extremely strong offensive core. Refrigerate kyu-b + stag aero + ohko deo-s is able to handle nearly the entire format, and it only fared better in a no-preview environment. Now the meta has evolved where nearly every WG runs a shed shell or just clicks a switching move whenever they're in any risk of getting trapped. The same thing goes for kyu in a non-lead spot or deo-s in the back, if they shell smash up on a mon when your kyu isn't revealed and you switch in on the right turn, you can send them into a 50/50 with fakeout / pursuit and even live a couple hits if you choose wrong. Overall the core loses a lot from having team preview enabled, but it's still extremely strong and controlling because of its ability to completely beat any non-wg.

The rest of the team is really quite eh. Jolly scizor doesn't outspeed anything important, and a much better set would be +def or +spdef and -speed to underspeed. Uturn is a good choice, but the rest of the moves except for maybe magic coat are complete situational garbage. This set would be much more consistent with defog and a healing move taking over powder and sacred fire's slots, since otherwise your only healing or hazard removal comes from aggron wishpassing lol.
Gyarados is a mediocre set again, I think the move choices are fine, but there are better gyara sets out there like shell smash / waterfall / knock / ??? or the self-improofing avalanche set i built a couple weeks ago.
Aggron is a terrible set, and the only reason it could even really pass was because it's a mbounce mon on a team that runs 0defog. This set just gets bricked by absolutely everything and it has nearly no utility. I'd replace it with an imp or a prankster to help with subpassing / other general utility.

2020 redux

Kyurem-Black @ Focus Sash
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Pursuit
- Extreme Speed
- Stealth Rock / Thousand Arrows / Focus Punch / Sacred Fire

Scizor-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Milk Drink
- Magic Coat / Knock Off / Toxic
- Defog

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear / Belly Drum
- Horn Leech / Substitute / Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Avalanche / Extremespeed

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sing / Hypnosis
- Sheer Cold
- Entrainment
- Inferno / Spider Web

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Safety Goggles / Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- King's Shield / Spiky Shield
- Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes / Roost
- Perish Song

Drapion @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Aromatherapy
- Recover / Wish

I think this 2020 rebuild is a much better version of the original. The good sets were preserved and barely changed: Kyu-b is pretty much the same just now we have an ev limit. You can replace stealth rock with any number of wg hitting moves just to help your mu vs a certain mon. The scizor set was reworked to allow for easier defogs, and it has a decent matchup vs deo-s because of magic coat. You can replace that with knock off for a little easier of a game vs gengar and latios or toxic for an easier mu vs subpass wgs or stuff like prankster tina or any king's shield mon. Gyara is a solid set, I built it around getting walled vs scizor so you can toxic an imp in case you get copied. Horn leech helps with sustain if you get cursed / it helps with the primogre wg matchup. You can run a sub / belly drum set as well if you're looking for something a bit faster. I started to like inferno in the deo last slot because it helps you with the hugepower mu and you can hit unexpecting scizor switches for se damage. Run hypnosis if you're planning on subpassing into it instead of just running it plain. Spider web last slot over hypnosis if you want to go for more of a trapping / offensive playstyle. Aero is the same set just I replaced recovery with hazard setting since there's nothing else to do with those two turns after you trap an opp. Run spiky shield if you decide to go lefties since the biggest reason for goggles is so they can't spore through your king's shield. Drapion is a standard subpass set, the poison type is really helpful for removing toxic spikes that wear kyu-b down way too fast. You can run wishpassing on this if you can learn how to survive for a couple more turns here and there.

Another possible replacement is switching the WGs around. I personally like toxic-immune wgs, but you can switch out scizor for a flame orb / trick mega sableye set since you can cripple more attackers and you won't need to run shed shell to counter trapping. Scizor and Drapion can pretty much just be switched around, so either can run either role. Another option is running kyogre-primal with scald / volt switch to have a better mu vs your own gyara imps.

To make this team more ladder friendly, you can easily replace either aero or deoxys with a scarf imp. This helps you a ton with the non-gengar mold breaker mu, and you can usually just copy and outspeed their hugepowers or non-gar molds to almost always win the game. Another change is switching out kyu-b for diancie, but that significantly weakens your gar and aero mus but you have a better chance beating gyaras setting up behind subs.

If you really NEED a prankster or a magic bounce i'd recommend replacing the aero or one of the non-gyara wgs with a spore or haze / dbond giratina. This usually helps with sweeps and makes sure your wgs don't get whittled down too too fast.

 

[manu 11]

Hi. This is my first post in an attempt to generate Gen 6 Discussion, Movement, and Development.

TO DO LIST

actually finish this and add more pokemon
order each pokemon in each tier
generate community discussion

I was originally going to make a gigantic post with a lot of information about Gen 6 as my 377th post (haha regirock number), but I haven't had the time to sit down and write more than a couple hundred words. Instead, I decided to create my version of a Gen 6 Viability Rankings, and go on with that post in the near future. These viability rankings are in their beta stage, so I still have to refine a couple of the tier descriptions, move add some more mons, move some mons around, etc. However, I do believe in their current version they are acceptable, although they are incomplete. I will edit or remove this notice when I believe they are in a better form.

Send me a message on discord (rr#9863) or showdown (regirock) if you see a typo or mistake, believe there are gigantic flaws in this list, think there are mons I am overlooking, or you just want to argue with my choices.

Generation 6 Viability Rankings (beta)

Note: I will freely move mons up or down the viability rankings based on community input, unless I completely disagree with the decision. The metagame will change in the future, and this list needs to reflect that.

Gen 6 Viability Rankings have been discussed a ton in the oldshark room, with the general consensus being that wonder guard users and non-wonder guard users should be tiered separately. The first viability ranking will be ranking pokemon based on the roles I've seen them perform, as well as the potential I think they have with certain abilities, items, or moves. The second viability ranking will just rank wg users. In the first list, I will only be ranking pokemon from S to B-, and lumping more pokemon into a “C or Below” tier. Beyond this, I believe you can make a case for almost any other pokemon to be viable, or you should just look higher up the list and find something that fills your slot better. The WG list will go from S to C or below, but it will only include full steps. This is by no means meant to be a complete list of every viable set ever (although it will probably grow to be just that in the future), just an analysis of how good these mons perform.

Definitions

Definitions: Mons will be given one of these roles unless they fill some extreme role that somehow doesn’t fall under these. I will work on example sets in the future.
Physical: uses physical attacks to deal damage, either through boosting or clicking.
Special: uses special attacks to deal damage, either through boosting or clicking
Utility: fills roles such as prankster, magic bounce, magic guard, etc. Utility in ORAS Pure is not one specific thing, but pokemon that do not have offensive power and not wonder guards are usually placed in this role.
Stag: shadow tag
Ohko: One Hit Knock Out (usually sheer cold or fissure)
X > mega X: This pokemon is sent out as a pre-mega form, usually with an ability like wonder guard, then megas into its natural mega ability.

note: i'm working on providing example sets for all of these mons, when they're ready they will be accessable by clicking the images for each mon. if you want to contribute sets, just pm them to me on discord (rr#9863) or ps (regirock)

S
These pokemon are essential and omnipresent. If unchecked or unprepared for, both offensively and defensively, these pokemon WILL run rampant, and in the best case scenario, they will always result in you losing pokemon, momentum, or other positional advantage. There is no reason to forget about these pokemon while building teams or playing, and if you do, there is no excuse for playing with a team that leaves these pokemon without answers other than your own low player skill and bad team curation. Pokemon in S and S- tier have extreme power, utility, and potential.

ohko, utility
physical
wonder guard*

*this slot is for wonder guard in general, not shedinja. wonder guards are ranked separately than normal pokemon in Gen 6 Pure Hackmons. Placing Wonder Guard in S tier does not mean every wonder guard user is top viability, but that as a concept, it is essentially required on any viable team.

S-
These pokemon are near-essential basic building blocks of Gen 6 Pure Hackmons teams. Pokemon in this tier have extremely high usage and viability, and you’re way more likely to see them in a game than not.

utility

A: These pokemon are widespread and extremely in the format, but less prevalent than S or S- tier pokemon. When looking to build a team, the pokemon in A tier will be your best friends, as they will carry their weight on the team more often than not.

A+
special
special, utility
special
stag, physical

A
ate
ate
> premega wg > mega mold
physical

A-
imposter (items in order of viability: choice scarf, eviolite, shed shell, lucky punch, plate, pikachu with light ball)
physical, utility
physical, stag
physical, ate
ohko, utility

B: These pokemon are borderline viable, but that doesn’t discount them completely in games. These pokemon fill niches or holes on teams, but they should not be looked at as primary choices when building and playing.

B+
utility
utility
utility
utility
physical, utility
physical, utility

B
utility
ate
> premega wg > mega mold
utility
physical, special
ohko, special

B-
> premega wg > mega bounce
physical
physical
physical


C or Below
These pokemon are ranked in no particular order. There is some, very borderline viability present, but in the end they are extremely niche choices that will more often than not fall flat on their face in a battle. These require heavy team support. Some of these choices are purely speculative, and they may have little to no real results when playing games.

> premega utility > mega stag
utility
stag, utility
utility
utility


WG Viability Rankings
dramlamb will be taking care of WG Ranks in this post.
tagging Ransei because he probably has some input.

Yo, some thoughts about the VR since the ladder allowed us to have a better understanding of what is good and what is not.

Few remarks first before rises/drops :

1. Ev limit really hurts Deoxys-S and it has difficulties being a good No Guard user. I would still let it at S rank just because No Guard puts immense pressure on teambuilder which is definitely noticeable by the amount of teams that run double Wonder Guard just because of No Guard.
2. -Ate is incredibly good. This is especially true for Diancie-Mega as Pixilate Fake Out/Extreme Speed helps revenge kill most offensive Pokemon such as Mega-Mewtwo-X, Latios-Mega, Mega-Mewtwo-Y, Slaking/Regigigas and even Mega-Gengar.
3. Gyarados is extremely good. Double Wonder Guard is almost mandatory to check No Guard and Huge Power to a certain extent and having the ability to change your Wonder Guard into Mold Breaker and sweep is truly a godsend. This double role makes it a lot easier to build.
4. Shadow Tag is used a lot more offensively than i thought. Most Shadow Tag users are Mega-Aerodactyl or Mega-Mewtwo-Y and run coverage moves to deal with specific threats.
5. Giratina is the defensive Pokemon of this meta. The Spore/Curse Prankster set can just win on its own vs unprepared teams. It is the go-to Pokemon to check 90% of the set up of the meta.

Now for the rises :

rises

Let's begin with the « controversial » one i guess : Giratina for S rank. As said above, the go to Pokemon for any defensive core. Prankster is the main set and it can run different Prankster sets such as Spore/Curse/Recover/Substitute or Encore/Haze/Curse/Recover. It stops most set up Pokemon such as MMX, Gyarados, Primal-Groudon and Slaking/Regigigas. While Latios-Mega and Gengar-Mega have the type advantage, Giratina can still beat them as they both use specific items (Soul Dew and Spooky Plate) and are thus weak to priority Spore. Moreover Giratina also got better thanks to the Shadow Tag immunity Ghost typing got in gen 6 which means it doesn't have to run Shed Shell or a momentum move unlike other defensive Pokemon.

The meta has actually changed in order to check Giratina better with a lot of Pokemon running Safety Goggles to ignore Spore and yet Giratina is still one of the biggest threats in the meta.


Diancie-Mega : A+. The best -ate user by far. Pixilate Fake Out/ Extreme Speed allows to revenge kill 90% of the offensive threats. Having naturally good offensive stats, it can run mixed sets be it Boomburst to hit Pokemon behind subs or moves such as Freeze-Dry allowing it to OHKO Gyarados and threaten Swampert-Mega. It can run coverage moves in order to hit specific Wonder Guard Pokemon that could wall it. It can also run hazards and has no difficulty setting them as Magic Bounce isn't run that much and the best user is probably Giratina which is weak to Pixilate. All around a great Pokemon to check set up and can also just destroy teams if it happens to run the appropriate coverage. Magic Guard sets while not used much help check Giratina even better.


Chansey to S- rank : Now Chansey just does Chansey things, basically Imposter. I am ranking it so high because Chansey is the best anti set up Pokemon imo, better than Prankster or Wonder Guard. By just being there in team preview you have to be wary of your own set up. This means that in order to prepare for it, you have to make your own set less good than what it could be or at least make it so that 1 Pokemon will be able to check it. There are counters to Imposter that basically render it useless (Mega-Gengar, Offensive WG Xerneas) but Chansey could always run the appropriate plate and ruin your day. The pressure it applies to teambuilding deserves S- rank.


Xerneas for B : Xerneas is a great Wonder Guard user but it can actually run other sets. It is the best pixilate user after Diancie-Mega and offers a more bulky approach to the mixed pixilate set. Magic Bounce is actually very useful due to the very good matchup it has vs Giratina, making it almost useless. Unlike Mega-Audino, Xerneas can actually put offensive pressure with good attack stats and a stab Moonblast that hits a great part of the metagame either neutrally or super effectively which makes switching on Xerneas risky for offensive Pokemon. Magic Guard is another possible set with Light of Ruin.

It does struggle vs Mega-Gengar and Primal-Groudon which can both capitalize on a resisted Moonblast and set up.

All of this, associated with the fact that there aren't many viable fairy type Pokemon, makes Xerneas B rank worthy imo.


Shedinja : Shedinja definitely deserves a rank on this VR. It seems like a troll Pokemon but it can stop Huge Power better than any other Pokemon. It doesn't care about coverage and the only risk vs Huge Power Pokemon is Trick or repeated Sacred Fire if you don't have a Lum Berry or don't run Recycle. This Pokemon obviously needs a lot of support to remove hazards or not let them be set but its unique ability to completely stop Huge Power is worth a mention on VR. C Rank.


Slowbro-Mega : A- Rank. Best counter to Primal-Groudon and MMX. Its high defense makes it very annoying to bypass for any physical attacker which are usually forced to run a special move to deal with it. Can run Prankster, Magic Bounce and Fur Coat efficiently. Slowbro-Mega is Yveltal's counterpart defensively speaking : whereas Yveltal checks 90% of the special offensive Pokemon, Slowbro-Mega checks 90% of the physical offensive Pokemon.

Now for drops :

drops

Banette-Mega : A is way too high. While Banette-Mega is a good revenge killer, especially because Stab Shadow Sneak is super effective vs Latios-Mega, MMX, MMY and Gengar-Mega, you can't take any hit and switch on those Pokemon. So you either need to make good prediction or let a Pokemon die for Banette-Mega to come in. Banette-Mega usually runs Pursuit too to get the kill for sure, while this seems nice it's quite risky and forcing you into 50/50 is never ideal.

I would drop it to B, might be a bit harsh but i really feel it just has 1 or 2 viable sets (Huge Power/Parental Bond) that fundamentally do the same and that it makes it easy to check. Moreover unlike MMX or other Huge Power users, Banette-Mega can't bluff other sets efficiently as it struggles to achieve anything in the meta without Huge Power/Parental Bond which makes it, again, easier to play around.


Groudon : I don't see what this does better than Primal-Groudon. Not having X4 water weakness doesn't seem needed except maybe to trap like Volt Switch Slowbro-Mega. I guess not having the Ground weakness can make it an ok Fur Coat Pokemon but that's not worth B rank, more like C rank or even unranked tbh.


MMX to A+ : I thought MMX was still insane like it used to be in gen 6 without ev limit. Truth is ev limit really hurts it.

It was great before because it could survive hits from faster Pokemon who could even hit it with a super effective move (252 SpA Spooky Plate Gengar-Mega Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-X: 378-446 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO and 252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 320-378 (77.1 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and thus risking the speed tie with Gengar-Mega was always in MMX's favor. Same for MMY and Aerodactyl-Mega, while they are faster, they couldn't always guarantee the OHKO and so those 1V1 were always in MMX's favor.

With EV limit, this changed and MMX is now the one with a higher chance of losing those 1V1. This forces the player to be more careful with MMX and therefore weakens the pressure MMX can apply vs the opponent's team. This can also be noticed by the total lack of Fur Coat users. People don't have to run a specific counter anymore. They carry 2 Wonder Guard hoping that MMX doesn't have the right coverage and have an offensive Pokemon to revenge kill MMX if needed.

All of this makes it so that MMX isn't the go to offensive Pokemon anymore and doesn't make it worth S rank. I would put it in same rank as MMY/Mega-Gengar in A+.

tl:dr : Giratina S- -> S, Diancie-Mega A -> A+, Chansey A- -> S-, Xerneas UR -> B, Shedinja UR -> C, Slowbro-Mega B+ -> A-, Banette-Mega A -> B, Groudon B+ -> UR, MMX S -> A+

Well these are my thoughts regarding the gen 6 VR. We could probably add some more Pokemon on it but i will think about that another time. Also please make the Wonder Guard sprite something else than Shedinja, it's confusing :(

 

[dramlamb]

Wait xern is UR? LOL ok yea I agree with these changes. Thanks for the suggestions manu 11

 

[berry]

Yo, some thoughts about the VR since the ladder allowed us to have a better understanding of what is good and what is not.

Few remarks first before rises/drops :

1. Ev limit really hurts Deoxys-S and it has difficulties being a good No Guard user. I would still let it at S rank just because No Guard puts immense pressure on teambuilder which is definitely noticeable by the amount of teams that run double Wonder Guard just because of No Guard.
2. -Ate is incredibly good. This is especially true for Diancie-Mega as Pixilate Fake Out/Extreme Speed helps revenge kill most offensive Pokemon such as Mega-Mewtwo-X, Latios-Mega, Mega-Mewtwo-Y, Slaking/Regigigas and even Mega-Gengar.
3. Gyarados is extremely good. Double Wonder Guard is almost mandatory to check No Guard and Huge Power to a certain extent and having the ability to change your Wonder Guard into Mold Breaker and sweep is truly a godsend. This double role makes it a lot easier to build.
4. Shadow Tag is used a lot more offensively than i thought. Most Shadow Tag users are Mega-Aerodactyl or Mega-Mewtwo-Y and run coverage moves to deal with specific threats.
5. Giratina is the defensive Pokemon of this meta. The Spore/Curse Prankster set can just win on its own vs unprepared teams. It is the go-to Pokemon to check 90% of the set up of the meta.

Now for the rises :

rises

Let's begin with the « controversial » one i guess : Giratina for S rank. As said above, the go to Pokemon for any defensive core. Prankster is the main set and it can run different Prankster sets such as Spore/Curse/Recover/Substitute or Encore/Haze/Curse/Recover. It stops most set up Pokemon such as MMX, Gyarados, Primal-Groudon and Slaking/Regigigas. While Latios-Mega and Gengar-Mega have the type advantage, Giratina can still beat them as they both use specific items (Soul Dew and Spooky Plate) and are thus weak to priority Spore. Moreover Giratina also got better thanks to the Shadow Tag immunity Ghost typing got in gen 6 which means it doesn't have to run Shed Shell or a momentum move unlike other defensive Pokemon.

The meta has actually changed in order to check Giratina better with a lot of Pokemon running Safety Goggles to ignore Spore and yet Giratina is still one of the biggest threats in the meta.


Diancie-Mega : A+. The best -ate user by far. Pixilate Fake Out/ Extreme Speed allows to revenge kill 90% of the offensive threats. Having naturally good offensive stats, it can run mixed sets be it Boomburst to hit Pokemon behind subs or moves such as Freeze-Dry allowing it to OHKO Gyarados and threaten Swampert-Mega. It can run coverage moves in order to hit specific Wonder Guard Pokemon that could wall it. It can also run hazards and has no difficulty setting them as Magic Bounce isn't run that much and the best user is probably Giratina which is weak to Pixilate. All around a great Pokemon to check set up and can also just destroy teams if it happens to run the appropriate coverage. Magic Guard sets while not used much help check Giratina even better.


Chansey to S- rank : Now Chansey just does Chansey things, basically Imposter. I am ranking it so high because Chansey is the best anti set up Pokemon imo, better than Prankster or Wonder Guard. By just being there in team preview you have to be wary of your own set up. This means that in order to prepare for it, you have to make your own set less good than what it could be or at least make it so that 1 Pokemon will be able to check it. There are counters to Imposter that basically render it useless (Mega-Gengar, Offensive WG Xerneas) but Chansey could always run the appropriate plate and ruin your day. The pressure it applies to teambuilding deserves S- rank.


Xerneas for B : Xerneas is a great Wonder Guard user but it can actually run other sets. It is the best pixilate user after Diancie-Mega and offers a more bulky approach to the mixed pixilate set. Magic Bounce is actually very useful due to the very good matchup it has vs Giratina, making it almost useless. Unlike Mega-Audino, Xerneas can actually put offensive pressure with good attack stats and a stab Moonblast that hits a great part of the metagame either neutrally or super effectively which makes switching on Xerneas risky for offensive Pokemon. Magic Guard is another possible set with Light of Ruin.

It does struggle vs Mega-Gengar and Primal-Groudon which can both capitalize on a resisted Moonblast and set up.

All of this, associated with the fact that there aren't many viable fairy type Pokemon, makes Xerneas B rank worthy imo.


Shedinja : Shedinja definitely deserves a rank on this VR. It seems like a troll Pokemon but it can stop Huge Power better than any other Pokemon. It doesn't care about coverage and the only risk vs Huge Power Pokemon is Trick or repeated Sacred Fire if you don't have a Lum Berry or don't run Recycle. This Pokemon obviously needs a lot of support to remove hazards or not let them be set but its unique ability to completely stop Huge Power is worth a mention on VR. C Rank.


Slowbro-Mega : A- Rank. Best counter to Primal-Groudon and MMX. Its high defense makes it very annoying to bypass for any physical attacker which are usually forced to run a special move to deal with it. Can run Prankster, Magic Bounce and Fur Coat efficiently. Slowbro-Mega is Yveltal's counterpart defensively speaking : whereas Yveltal checks 90% of the special offensive Pokemon, Slowbro-Mega checks 90% of the physical offensive Pokemon.

Now for drops :

drops

Banette-Mega : A is way too high. While Banette-Mega is a good revenge killer, especially because Stab Shadow Sneak is super effective vs Latios-Mega, MMX, MMY and Gengar-Mega, you can't take any hit and switch on those Pokemon. So you either need to make good prediction or let a Pokemon die for Banette-Mega to come in. Banette-Mega usually runs Pursuit too to get the kill for sure, while this seems nice it's quite risky and forcing you into 50/50 is never ideal.

I would drop it to B, might be a bit harsh but i really feel it just has 1 or 2 viable sets (Huge Power/Parental Bond) that fundamentally do the same and that it makes it easy to check. Moreover unlike MMX or other Huge Power users, Banette-Mega can't bluff other sets efficiently as it struggles to achieve anything in the meta without Huge Power/Parental Bond which makes it, again, easier to play around.


Groudon : I don't see what this does better than Primal-Groudon. Not having X4 water weakness doesn't seem needed except maybe to trap like Volt Switch Slowbro-Mega. I guess not having the Ground weakness can make it an ok Fur Coat Pokemon but that's not worth B rank, more like C rank or even unranked tbh.


MMX to A+ : I thought MMX was still insane like it used to be in gen 6 without ev limit. Truth is ev limit really hurts it.

It was great before because it could survive hits from faster Pokemon who could even hit it with a super effective move (252 SpA Spooky Plate Gengar-Mega Judgment vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-X: 378-446 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO and 252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 320-378 (77.1 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and thus risking the speed tie with Gengar-Mega was always in MMX's favor. Same for MMY and Aerodactyl-Mega, while they are faster, they couldn't always guarantee the OHKO and so those 1V1 were always in MMX's favor.

With EV limit, this changed and MMX is now the one with a higher chance of losing those 1V1. This forces the player to be more careful with MMX and therefore weakens the pressure MMX can apply vs the opponent's team. This can also be noticed by the total lack of Fur Coat users. People don't have to run a specific counter anymore. They carry 2 Wonder Guard hoping that MMX doesn't have the right coverage and have an offensive Pokemon to revenge kill MMX if needed.

All of this makes it so that MMX isn't the go to offensive Pokemon anymore and doesn't make it worth S rank. I would put it in same rank as MMY/Mega-Gengar in A+.

tl:dr : Giratina S- -> S, Diancie-Mega A -> A+, Chansey A- -> S-, Xerneas UR -> B, Shedinja UR -> C, Slowbro-Mega B+ -> A-, Banette-Mega A -> B, Groudon B+ -> UR, MMX S -> A+

Well these are my thoughts regarding the gen 6 VR. We could probably add some more Pokemon on it but i will think about that another time. Also please make the Wonder Guard sprite something else than Shedinja, it's confusing :(

I agree with a good chunk of this post, and I think the viability ranking can finally be fine-tuned because of how much knowledge we've gained from the ladder. Since the ladder was introduced, the format became extremely fast, and I'd say the "moving force" is no longer hugepower MMX. Priority is truly king, and -ate has shown it is one of the most viable and threatening offensive roles.

S- > S I don't really agree with this suggestion. Alongside -ate's increase in viability, I feel like tina has a harder time truly doing anything when it's always threatened by an ice or fairy type espeed. Don't get me wrong, the mon is good, but I don't think it truly qualifies for S tier quite yet because it still struggles with mons that outpace it. I was honestly considering dropping it to A+, but I'll keep it at S- for now.

In fact, because of the rise of viability of priority and -atespeed, I think the entire S/S- rank needs to be reconsidered. The meta today is a LOT different than what we experienced in the past.

A>A+ I completely agree with this change because, like I said above, priority is truly king. However, I think Diancie moving up without Kyurem moving up is a bit unbalanced. Diancie still has trouble with revenge killing mgar and it can't score an essential ohko on aerodactyl after a king's shield. I think if we're moving one up we have to push both up to A+. They're almost interchangable, but each one has their own pros and cons (such as diancie being a better boomburster, kyu-b having the better physatk for espeeds, diancie breaking more wgs and having more room for coverage, kyu-b breaking gar better, etc)
A>A+ (read above)

A- > S- I completely agree. Chansey and imposters in general have taken the center stage in this format because of their incredible ability to face off with gyarados and other non-gengar sweepers. A- Chansey is criminally underranked for how good of a team member it is.

UR > B I can definitely see this mon's viability as a non-wg, so I'll add it to the list.

UR > C agreed, I've been caught off guard and left scrambling to deal with this mon more times than I'd like to admit. No question it has viability, although it still is quite limited.

B+ > A- This mon is really incredible, it does a great job at switching into a ton of physical attackers in the format. Most definitely one of the mons that's gained in viability due to the rise of -atespeed as well.

A > B I agree with this drop, I think my original list vastly overrated hugepower mons. I think it fits the description under B because it's quite borderline viable, and there aren't too many places where i'd take it over mmx.

B+ > C or below I agree with this as well, Groudon is another mon I overrated pretty heavily. I still think it has some borderline viability, but for the most part pdon outclasses it in almost every way.

S > A+ This mon is really incredible, but yeah I think that it's lost its charm as the top threat in the metagame. It really struggles against -ate, and with diancie and kyurem both having incredible matchups vs it, it kinda struggles to truly find a place in the format.

Now for some of my own suggestions.

S > A+ This mon suffered the same fate as MMX. It's still incredible, but it has an AWFUL matchup vs priority spammers and it almost always instaloses to kyu-b or diancie. It's extremely good in the lategame and it's one of the most potent sweepers that needs almost no support or setup so I still think it qualifies for A+ rank, but it isn't nearly the threat it used to be with the rise of priority.

> A > A+ this is the second best mold breaker setup mon in the game behind gengar, almost undisputably. the pre-mega wg gives it a gigantic niche and it can act as a 2nd or 3rd wg that uses a decently uncommon type to avoid getting hit by mmx. Its major downside is that it's extremely weak to imposter, as a scarf imp has potential to countersweep an entire team.

A+ > A This mon was everyone's new favorite toy when it was released, and it still fills an extremely good role as a mold breaker with broken soul dew. However, it falls a bit short of the other mold breakers because it's pretty hard to imposterproof and it's weak to both of the major -ate mons. It's still good, but less good in today's format.

A+ > S THE best mold breaker, pretty undisputably. This mon has it all, with a diancie-resisting type alongside an easy to improof setup with plate judgment. It's also incredible in other roles such as prankster or normalize, so with a tiny bit of team support it can easily sweep after taking care of priority mons.

 

[manu 11]

I agree with a good chunk of this post, and I think the viability ranking can finally be fine-tuned because of how much knowledge we've gained from the ladder. Since the ladder was introduced, the format became extremely fast, and I'd say the "moving force" is no longer hugepower MMX. Priority is truly king, and -ate has shown it is one of the most viable and threatening offensive roles.

S- > S I don't really agree with this suggestion. Alongside -ate's increase in viability, I feel like tina has a harder time truly doing anything when it's always threatened by an ice or fairy type espeed. Don't get me wrong, the mon is good, but I don't think it truly qualifies for S tier quite yet because it still struggles with mons that outpace it. I was honestly considering dropping it to A+, but I'll keep it at S- for now.

In fact, because of the rise of viability of priority and -atespeed, I think the entire S/S- rank needs to be reconsidered. The meta today is a LOT different than what we experienced in the past.

A>A+ I completely agree with this change because, like I said above, priority is truly king. However, I think Diancie moving up without Kyurem moving up is a bit unbalanced. Diancie still has trouble with revenge killing mgar and it can't score an essential ohko on aerodactyl after a king's shield. I think if we're moving one up we have to push both up to A+. They're almost interchangable, but each one has their own pros and cons (such as diancie being a better boomburster, kyu-b having the better physatk for espeeds, diancie breaking more wgs and having more room for coverage, kyu-b breaking gar better, etc)
A>A+ (read above)

A- > S- I completely agree. Chansey and imposters in general have taken the center stage in this format because of their incredible ability to face off with gyarados and other non-gengar sweepers. A- Chansey is criminally underranked for how good of a team member it is.

UR > B I can definitely see this mon's viability as a non-wg, so I'll add it to the list.

UR > C agreed, I've been caught off guard and left scrambling to deal with this mon more times than I'd like to admit. No question it has viability, although it still is quite limited.

B+ > A- This mon is really incredible, it does a great job at switching into a ton of physical attackers in the format. Most definitely one of the mons that's gained in viability due to the rise of -atespeed as well.

A > B I agree with this drop, I think my original list vastly overrated hugepower mons. I think it fits the description under B because it's quite borderline viable, and there aren't too many places where i'd take it over mmx.

B+ > C or below I agree with this as well, Groudon is another mon I overrated pretty heavily. I still think it has some borderline viability, but for the most part pdon outclasses it in almost every way.

S > A+ This mon is really incredible, but yeah I think that it's lost its charm as the top threat in the metagame. It really struggles against -ate, and with diancie and kyurem both having incredible matchups vs it, it kinda struggles to truly find a place in the format.

Now for some of my own suggestions.

S > A+ This mon suffered the same fate as MMX. It's still incredible, but it has an AWFUL matchup vs priority spammers and it almost always instaloses to kyu-b or diancie. It's extremely good in the lategame and it's one of the most potent sweepers that needs almost no support or setup so I still think it qualifies for A+ rank, but it isn't nearly the threat it used to be with the rise of priority.

> A > A+ this is the second best mold breaker setup mon in the game behind gengar, almost undisputably. the pre-mega wg gives it a gigantic niche and it can act as a 2nd or 3rd wg that uses a decently uncommon type to avoid getting hit by mmx. Its major downside is that it's extremely weak to imposter, as a scarf imp has potential to countersweep an entire team.

A+ > A This mon was everyone's new favorite toy when it was released, and it still fills an extremely good role as a mold breaker with broken soul dew. However, it falls a bit short of the other mold breakers because it's pretty hard to imposterproof and it's weak to both of the major -ate mons. It's still good, but less good in today's format.

A+ > S THE best mold breaker, pretty undisputably. This mon has it all, with a diancie-resisting type alongside an easy to improof setup with plate judgment. It's also incredible in other roles such as prankster or normalize, so with a tiny bit of team support it can easily sweep after taking care of priority mons.

Giratina suffers vs -ate for sure but even with how good -ate is right now, Giratina still manages to work well and is used on almost every good team. While it is true that -ate is insane, let's not forget it can also reveal completely useless in some matchups where it can't hit a specific Wonder Guard. In such cases, Giratina can just switch out to the appropriate Wonder Guard. Of course, the -ate who run Pursuit are really annoying for Giratina but let's face it, you are the only one running Pursuit on those (maybe more people should run it but i think it's a waste of coverage and i never like 50/50).

Don't agree on Kyu-B for A+. A rank is where it should be imo. Diancie-Mega is definitely better and more important in the meta right now than Kyu-B. Having both at same rank seems problematic. Diancie-Mega takes care of the same thing that Kyu-B does but has also the potential to be mixed. The better speed also means Diancie-Mega will always win vs Kyu-B. Moreover, Pixilate has a huge advantage compared to Refrigerate as it naturally hits a Wonder Guard, Sableye-Mega. While this may not seem important, the ability to hit a Wonder Guard directly puts enormous pressure on the opposing team, something Refrigerate is not able to achieve. Finally, Pixilate in general is also better coverage wise as you are able to hit Dark type super effectively which helps vs Gyarados-Mega and Tyranitar-Mega. The former being extremely common.

Sadly Deo-s is indeed not the beast it used to be. I still want to keep it S rank because No Guard is to me the most important thing in Pure Hackmons. While the meta is prepared for it, the effects it has on teambuilding is so big that it should remain S rank imo.

I can see Gyarados A+, imo it's good at A right now. Especially with the amount of Volt Switch and Freeze-Dry around just to deal with. It's great but changing your momentum move to Volt Switch directly improves your matchup vs Gyarados.

Disagree on both Latios-Mega and Gengar-Mega. Latios-Mega lacks speed but if it had 394 like Gengar-Mega or MMX i would rank it S without question. The power it has on first hit due to Soul Dew makes it so dangerous. You are basically forced to run Steel types if you want to be safe. Dark types still take a ton from Spacial Rend and Fairy types also take a bunch from Psystrike. It doesn't need to set up unlike other Mold Breaker users to actually threaten Wonder Guard. And if it actually manages to set up, it has the Stab on the best move to capitalize on it with Stored Power. It is a Pokemon that needs to be taken into account more than MMX or MMY when teambuilding imo.

Gengar-Mega. It is great. Has multiple dangerous sets, really versatile. But it also has a hard counter in the name of Pursuit. You will tell me that that's also the case for MMY and Latios-Mega and that's true but those 2 actually run moves that can threaten Pursuit users like Gyarados-Mega or Yveltal and deal more damage on the first hit. Gengar-Mega's moves are 90% of the time Judgment and Secret Sword which can be played around with Normal and Ghost type Pokemon. It also has terrible defensive stats to set up, especially the HP, so it needs Spore or Dark Void. The former is checked by Safety Goggles and the second has 80% accuracy which can not be considered reliable. While it has a lot of sets, once it's revealed in game if it has Mold Breaker or not, i feel you can played around it "easily".

Edit : Forgot to argue for Giratina in S rank. Giratina should be S rank imo because it's very easy to use, counters almost all physically offensive pokes and can also win games on its own. Hardly any other Pokemon can do what it does.

 

[Tmi489]

not experienced enough to comment on anything else bu

Sadly Deo-s is indeed not the beast it used to be. I still want to keep it S rank because No Guard is to me the most important thing in Pure Hackmons. While the meta is prepared for it, the effects it has on teambuilding is so big that it should remain S rank imo.

influence =/= viability and deo should drop to like a even, but have a note of the danger/influence it has

 

[Ransei]

S- > S Agree
Admittedly the presence of -ate, makes it difficult to justify Giratina for S now but Giratina by itself is the single most usable Pokemon we have. The combination of its bulk, ghost-typing, and griseous orb allows this Pokemon to have immense amounts of variety, making it capable of dealing with and annoying the heck out of virtually everything. Against Wonder Guards, it can Curse. Against many sweepers, it can Haze or Destiny Bond. Against breakers, it can Metal Burst. It can also Spore spam many Pokemon to oblivion if it wanted to on top of all this, but if it ends up being paired with Knock Off. It might be able to utilize King's Shield now to take advantage of -ates. Giratina single-handedly makes itself the most important reason to carry 248 HP EVs because not very much frequently stops it from running the catastrophic Curse move. It is by far the most effective Prankster and Magic Bounce Pokemon in the entire metagame. This feat gives Giratina such an important role of holding this metagame together. Being the one of the best sweep countermeaures to have ever existed in any gen of Hackmons as it blocks hazards and eliminates stat boosts.

What I'm trying to say is, this Pokemon pretty much has it all. It's not a strong hitter or anything by stats but has Curse to work around this very effectively. Much of the metagame has a difficult time being able to set up against it because it hazes, and it's too bulky to OHKO with most breakers but can use Metal Burst to harshly punish them. It is the best supporter, only real defensive sweeper, one of the greatest punishers, one of the best hazard removers, the greatest hazard bouncer, great cleric, and great phazer. I'm just slapping labels at this point because they prove how influential and effective this Pokemon really is.

A>A+ Agree
With the EV limit -ates have become absolutely incredible. Mega Diancie can easily KO lots of top tier metagame threats with ease and stands with an advantage against all other -ates in the format. Dealing with this Pokemon has become difficult for this, and if it forces something out there are always moves it can use to punish, such as Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes.

A>A+ Disagree
Black Kyurem is also really good in the format, especially with the EV limit, but Mega Diancie stops this Pokemon from rising. Mega Diancie's typing gives it more value over Black Kyurem due to how it's able to beat the other -ates, and it's impact makes quite noticeable of a difference from there.

A- > S- Agree
Chansey hasn't been used very much. This does not matter. It's been immensely underrated. Chansey is quite fantastic of an anti-setup/anti-offense Pokemon who's able to easily pressure its targets out or take their form and sweep back. There's been an increase in Mold Breakers used and Chansey especially benefits from this since it's main issue otherwise is the ability to be imposterproofed by Wonder Guard. Aside from this, Chansey is the ultimate scouting tool in the metagame, being able to safely switch into the most Pokemon to find out their sets and plan on working around them. This is substantial in Generation 6 because the metagame heavily thrives off unpredictability in the higher portions of competitive. Last but not least Chansey is one of the pinnacle building blocks each team should consider finding ways to hinder, unless you want the opponent copying every Pokemon on your team and taking advantage of this information. It is also the absolute BEST Pokemon for new players to use in the metagame for the same reason. It allows newer players to learn as much about the metagame as possible, and it allows them to very easily beat newer players without it as they tend to not be cautious with their set up Pokemon. This might be a ramble but Chansey is too valuable. Some of the most well-known players we've seen in the format were the biggest users of it for the aforementioned reasons.

UR > B Agree
We skipped Xerneas huh. Yeah this Pokemon can act as a bulkier Pixilate user, a Fur Coat user, maybe Poison Heal? and such. It has the stats and typing to warrant a spot on the VR. Not fantastic but good.

UR > C Agree
Shedinja can do something if used right and built under a specific team that works around its Sturdy + 1 HP combo.

B+ > A- Agree
Mega Slowbro is a prominent wall in the metagame, great Fur Coat/Prankster Pokemon that's easily able to take even super effective physical attacks with ease.

A > B Agree
Mega Banette is one of the best Huge Power Pokemon in the metagame but it's much less effective than the Pokemon it's paired up with on the ranks. It cannot be compared to Yveltal, Mega Slowbro, Regigigas/Slaking. The big thing about it is being able to carry Shadow Sneak STAB, which greatly helps take care of most things Mega Diancie can also take care of under the EV limit. It may just be outclassed under that regard too. All it has left is its typing and the ability to use stronger coverage moves than Mega Diancie. These are what should have it B on the VR.

B+ > C or below Agree
I honestly don't really know what this Pokemon does and I rarely ever see it. I've heard it can use Fur Coat and possibly Prankster but it doesn't wall or damage things noticeably enough to stand out as much of a viable Pokemon.

S > A+ Disagree
Mega Mewtwo X is easier to defeat due to the EV limit allowing weaker Pokemon to knock it out more often. -ates and Mega Aerodactyl became the primary measure taken to ensure this Pokemon at its current state doesn't seem very effective, and once those two combine with Mega Slowbro or a Wonder Guard MMX doesn't have coverage against, there's not much this Pokemon can do anymore. However I believe the loss of effectiveness is mostly a result of players not adapting their Mega Mewtwo X to the current metagame. If Mega Mewtwo X were to drop, S -> A+ is too drastic of a change. Despite its nerf this Pokemon is still an essential threat to consider building against in the metagame to a significant extent. It is the main reason our Wonder Guards have to be diverse, and the main Pokemon we have to break as many of them as possible. We've forgotten Mega Mewtwo X is a Pokemon that's easily capable of adjusting and adapting to different parts of the PH metagame. Since Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Diancie are the two biggest threats for this Pokemon right now, Mega Mewtwo X can try running King's Shield and Choice Scarf more. It can also try pairing up with Shadow Tag sets capable of tearing down Mega Diancie because it doesn't run Shed Shell. Once those threats are weakened or taken down Mega Mewtwo X mostly just reigns again. Regardless of however bit it's nerfed Mega Mewtwo X is still the most outright influential Pokemon we have in the metagame. This has just proven our metagame is a bit more balanced.

S > A+ Can probably be lower but not for reasons you think. I have an alternative solution.

Deo-S on its own is the face of all No Guard. It's like Mega Mewtwo X where it has to be considered to prepare against or else teams just straight up lose, except with No Guard it has to be taken more seriously because not preparing for No Guard means you're vulnerable to OHKO moves.

Deoxys-Speed however suffers from holding its position as the main No Guard. Every good player and their grandmas have enough prep for it and it hardly seems to do very much when actually put in play. It's also not like Mega Mewtwo X, who's just able to adapt to the metagame prepping around them. Once it's prepped for, it's done. The best Deo-S has is forcing 1 Wonder Guard out into another and hoping they stay in. At this point hitting OHKO moves becomes a game of patience. For that I do however believe Deo-S is one of the best hazard setters in the metagame due to how it take advantage of forced switches to throw hazards whenever freely, and punish a Magic Bounce switchin by possibly predicting, but that's not why we placed it in S and isn't a trait this valuable by any means.

ALTERNATIVE NOMINATION:

No Guard (UR -> S)
No Guard by itself is one of the biggest things we have to focus on in this metagame and where it thrives, at least on ladder, is its unpredictability. Here it's not only an essential building block we have to consider working around in order to win, but it can fight back at its best if being given by any sort of random Pokemon aside from Deoxys-Speed. I remember about six years ago people were mentioning how any other Pokemon being used as No Guard would be more effective than Deo-S, and it's mostly for these reasons. If we do have this work however I don't believe we need a No Guard viability rankings because there wouldn't be much to rank from. Just any random user can be just as effective as the other.

> A > A+ Disagree
Gyarados is good in this format but not on the level of Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Gengar. It's kinda dead weight as a Wonder Guard until it's able to set up properly and suffers from some 4MSS, leaving it vulnerable to Whirlwind or Sing much of the time unless to sacrifices a STAB slot for Magic Coat. This also leaves it room to get walled by Pokemon resisting either of its STABs to switch in and beat it with super effective moves (or phazing). Stuff like Volt Switch Mega Audino and fakespeed Mega Diancie after it mega evolves. I could type more but this should be enough.

A+ > A Disagree
Mega Latios is the single most destructive sweeper and special breaker in the metagame thanks to Soul Dew. After one boost it's able to shred even resistances with high BP Stored Power and Spacial Rend STAB attacks, which is a feat even Mega Gengar and Mega Mewtwo Y often tend to struggle with. It has some flaws. It's too slow, prone to Imposter, has to rely on an item that can't help it escape or block sleep, and is weak to -ate, but the majority of the time it's upsides help it prevail more often than not.

A+ > S Disagree
Mega Gengar is in a great place at A+, being able to outspeed most of the opposition and break through many foes with Mold Breaker STAB Judgment. It's also able to use Prankster and is considered to be the best inherently Imposterproofed sweeper in the metagame. These are all fantastic traits. However Mega Gengar's weaknesses are too severe, having to rely on the Spooky Plate item for most of its viability and having too low of defenses. It is quite easy to hardcounter with Yveltal or any sort of random Knock Off user. Any sort of priority forces it out, even Mega Diancie after Mega Gengar manages to Shell Smash. Normalize at best forces Pokemon out and gets walled by Wonder Guard so it can't run this very effectively to avoid its threats

 

[JanieCox]

Ngl, I am neither great with VR's ranking mons that fill completley different niches above each other is hard NOR am I particularly adept with the meta. I personally have only seen mons ranked B and below only a handful of times on ladder and in tours, so it's even more difficult to say. Nonetheless, love to see some revamping.

On the Kyu-B vs Mdiancie discussion, I'd like to bring up the potential of STAB freeze-dry. I don't know if this is common or considered, but when talking to others about potential sets I don't get the idea that it is. Without SpA investments, KyuB OHKO's fully invested HP and SpD mega swampert, fully invested HP Gyara, and 2HKO's fully invested HP Mbro. Seeing as mega swampert and gyara are such good wgs, the ability to OHKO is them is notable, along with dealing with a mon that completely walls diancie like fur coat Mbro does.

I'll leave the actual ranking up to people more immersed with the meta and better at VR's than I am but hope I said something worthwhile at least.

 

[Ransei]

At this point this is just tradition. Thanks Trambo for making me obsessed with having 88 as a GXE number.

For more clarification, click these two links below:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-hackmons-hopes-and-dreams.3653611/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pure-hackmons-the-royal-army.3664151/

Or right here for a shortcut tbh

[06:37:40] #Ransei: at the time during permaladder, all of the best players made 88+ GXE
[06:38:00] #Ransei: so trambo used it as the start of a range for top tier players
[06:38:05] #Ransei: and i took it as a goal to make

My first five losses were within the first 35 games, when I was using a bunch of random, underdeveloped teams rather than focusing on being consistent with one.

Here is the team I used afterwards, when I was left to focus on using and improving just one: https://pokepast.es/67115c25d7442638
I ended up winning 20 something games in a row, losing one game to choking against a Choice Scarf No Guard Spore Mega Mewtwo Y team, then having my 7th loss somewhere down the line due to a 1st turn wake against my Mega Latios.

This is a pretty cool team. I used to have this up as a sample but with several differences like Mega Aerodactyl having Shadow Tag over Mold Breaker, Mega Gyarados having Wonder Guard over Prankster, Mega Slowbro having Fur Coat over Wonder Guard, etc. My team was originally like this: https://pokepast.es/6dcf59e3ce9bb05e. The sample was removed because it was thought to have been outdated. Since then I've successfully revamped the team to be more efficient, which helped for ladder.

===============================================================================================

Here is a short summary of what each of the Pokemon do:

Mega Aerodactyl breaks stuff with STAB Choice Band moves and coverage. It's able to outspeed and KO Pokemon like Mega Latios, Mega Gengar, both Mega Mewtwos, Mega Rayquaza, Gyarados, Mega Manectric, Electrode, Yveltal, and Mega Beedrill with the right STAB or coverage moves. Whichever one should be used for each Pokemon is fairly straightforward. This Pokemon was also difficult for much of the ladder metagame to switch into due to a lack of bulkier threats anyone used. Overall these traits made it fairly easy for this Pokemon to carry the entire team to victory.

Mega Slowbro is one of the Wonder Guards for the team. Its goal was to wall a bunch of Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X and other physical attackers' attack moves with its sheer base 180 Defense, while being able to block off everything it wasn't weak to, including Deoxys-Speed. It works pretty well at these roles. While it's walling it could also help clear status ailments for the whole team and lead up with Stealth Rock for the Mold Breakers.

Mega Latios sets up and sweeps. It's incredibly destructive even without the Shell Smash boosts but once rocks are up and Mega Latios Shell Smashes once priority becomes the only relevant thing stopping it from winning the game.

-ates are really cool. Black Kyurem is also really cool. It's able to use STAB Fakespeed to inflict loads of damage off a great chunk of Pokemon while having Pursuit to successfully punish those who try to escape. It's used for its monstrous base 170 Atk and the ability to deal with potential threats such as Mega Gengar and Giratina more efficiently.

I love Mega Audino. It is an amazing Wonder Guard. For this team it assists both Black Kyurem and Mega Slowbro by blocking Mega Gengar's attacks and building momentum over it. Mega Gengar doesn't like to run Poison STAB since Ghost + Fighting is perfect coverage. Because of this, Mega Audino can use U-Turn to switch into Black Kyurem and have it defeat Mega Gengar with fakespeed or Pursuit. By doing this the team also safely avoids getting swept by the Mega Gengar. Aside from this it pairs up well with many Pokemon, including Mega Slowbro. In this case, Mega Audino benefits from being paired with Mega Slowbro since Slowbro's water-typing resists Steel. Mega Slowbro takes care of Mega Mewtwo X more efficiently, while Mega Audino takes care of Mega Gengar, two incredible offense threats in the metagame. It's a win/win. Worst case scenario if the Mega Slowbro faints, Mega Audino is also capable of surviving a Gear Grind from Mega Mewtwo X, but under full HP.

Mega Audino's roles are also to serve as a defogger and a phazer against many Substitute Pokemon, including sweepers. Substitute was a lot more common on ladder than I would've imagined so Whirlwind was extremely useful.

I'm done rambling about Mega Audino. Just use this Pokemon in PH if you haven't already.

Mega Gyarados is there as a secondary Pursuit trapper that clears stats. It can work against Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Gengar fairly well. It also faces off against Mold Breaker Hazard Deoxys-Speed.

===============================================================================================

This team isn't perfect. For example, it's weak to Toxic Spikes, Xerneas, and Pixilate Mega Diancie, but can also easily find Primal Groudon threatening. Honestly Yveltal could even be used over Mega Gyarados to help alleviate some of the Toxic Spikes weakness. Honestly though none of that matters to me. Making it this far with all three of my favorite non legendary Pokemon and with four Pokemon overall within my top 10 has made this run more meaningful than if I were to make the changes necessary to perfect this team and achieve the same GXE.

It was a fun ride. I had no goals or anything. I just wanted to enjoy the Gen 6 Pure Hackmons ladder while it was available. Similar vibe to what I've intended with Desertlovania five and a half years ago. Honestly making it this far was a great final checkpoint for me, and convenient since the month is at its end.

Thanks to Rage and the rest of RoA's staff team for making this possible. I can't wait for usage stats, whoo!

 

[berry]

Essential Reading: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/weighted-stats-faq.3478570/ ESPECIALLY https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/weighted-stats-faq.3478570/post-4749569 (raw vs real)

Not sure if everyone has seen, but because of the ORAS PH ladder, we now have ORAS PH usage stats!

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen6purehackmons-1760.txt
^ These are the usage stats for the players the highest up on the ladder, with a glicko rating of about 1760. I see this as the most representative of the tier, as a lot of the lower-ladder stats follow a very different meta.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/moveset/gen6purehackmons-1760.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/leads/gen6purehackmons-1760.txt
^ movesets and lead stats. Keep in mind when looking at the abilities on the moveset page that mold breaker, turboblaze, and teravolt are all the same.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/metagame/gen6purehackmons-1760.txt
^ automatically generated metagame analysis, I wouldn't pay attention to this too closely because PH doesn't really look like any other format, but it can be used to draw some cool conclusions about the meta.

lower glicko usage ranks

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen6purehackmons-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen6purehackmons-1500.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen6purehackmons-0.txt
These stats are more representative of the ladder meta, and they include usage from everyone who played the tier at all this month. You should take these with a grain of salt, as the top of these rankings don't necessarily represent the tier too clearly.

Interestingly enough, we can use these usage stats to create pseudo usage-based "tiers" in PH. Smogon usage-based tiers use 3.4% as the cutoff before a mon drops, so I'll be doing the same. (edit: I originally had this say 4.5% like it did in gen 8, but Tmi489 reminded me that pre-gen 8 the cutoff was 3.4%.)

>3.4%

+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Giratina | 52.46466% | 2605 | 11.404% | 1585 | 12.935% |
| 2 | Deoxys-Speed | 31.81525% | 8500 | 37.212% | 4949 | 40.388% |
| 3 | Gyarados-Mega | 31.74446% | 2518 | 11.024% | 1666 | 13.596% |
| 4 | Mewtwo-Mega-X | 29.94191% | 5192 | 22.730% | 2611 | 21.308% |
| 5 | Mewtwo-Mega-Y | 27.45884% | 4525 | 19.810% | 2307 | 18.827% |
| 6 | Groudon-Primal | 23.62219% | 3241 | 14.189% | 1885 | 15.383% |
| 7 | Rayquaza-Mega | 22.05031% | 7818 | 34.226% | 3978 | 32.464% |
| 8 | Aerodactyl-Mega | 20.29107% | 1104 | 4.833% | 716 | 5.843% |
| 9 | Diancie-Mega | 20.12800% | 2137 | 9.356% | 1289 | 10.519% |
| 10 | Gengar-Mega | 19.72619% | 2891 | 12.657% | 1768 | 14.429% |
| 11 | Chansey | 19.40994% | 2468 | 10.805% | 1588 | 12.960% |
| 12 | Audino-Mega | 17.24812% | 875 | 3.831% | 571 | 4.660% |
| 13 | Slowbro-Mega | 16.29306% | 460 | 2.014% | 319 | 2.603% |
| 14 | Scizor-Mega | 15.98597% | 1687 | 7.386% | 1082 | 8.830% |
| 15 | Xerneas | 14.62865% | 1123 | 4.916% | 649 | 5.296% |
| 16 | Regigigas | 14.27427% | 1519 | 6.650% | 910 | 7.426% |
| 17 | Yveltal | 13.17253% | 679 | 2.973% | 399 | 3.256% |
| 18 | Arceus | 12.47463% | 1758 | 7.696% | 962 | 7.851% |
| 19 | Kyogre-Primal | 11.24860% | 2024 | 8.861% | 1147 | 9.361% |
| 20 | Sableye-Mega | 10.92010% | 842 | 3.686% | 602 | 4.913% |
| 21 | Manectric-Mega | 10.64005% | 2252 | 9.859% | 1415 | 11.548% |
| 22 | Swampert-Mega | 9.16453% | 1223 | 5.354% | 806 | 6.578% |
| 23 | Shedinja | 8.79924% | 7485 | 32.769% | 4136 | 33.754% |
| 24 | Kyurem-Black | 7.33976% | 1493 | 6.536% | 911 | 7.435% |
| 25 | Ferrothorn | 7.33293% | 531 | 2.325% | 337 | 2.750% |
| 26 | Metagross-Mega | 7.04902% | 1008 | 4.413% | 601 | 4.905% |
| 27 | Slaking | 6.50668% | 1770 | 7.749% | 862 | 7.035% |
| 28 | Steelix-Mega | 6.19402% | 409 | 1.791% | 254 | 2.073% |
| 29 | Arceus-Electric | 5.92748% | 1526 | 6.681% | 1027 | 8.381% |
| 30 | Sceptile-Mega | 5.47821% | 861 | 3.769% | 543 | 4.431% |
| 31 | Chesnaught | 5.08251% | 120 | 0.525% | 78 | 0.637% |
| 32 | Blissey | 5.07368% | 1835 | 8.033% | 910 | 7.426% |
| 33 | Arceus-Fighting | 4.88221% | 107 | 0.468% | 82 | 0.669% |
| 34 | Banette-Mega | 4.83955% | 433 | 1.896% | 259 | 2.114% |
| 35 | Venusaur-Mega | 4.77154% | 587 | 2.570% | 348 | 2.840% |
| 36 | Latios-Mega | 4.37591% | 1090 | 4.772% | 571 | 4.660% |
| 37 | Mawile-Mega | 3.88302% | 210 | 0.919% | 132 | 1.077% |
| 38 | Arceus-Ghost | 3.86746% | 342 | 1.497% | 243 | 1.983% |
| 39 | Landorus-Therian | 3.64819% | 349 | 1.528% | 150 | 1.224% |
| 40 | Registeel | 3.64761% | 450 | 1.970% | 290 | 2.367% |

The preceding 40 pokemon would be "Gen 6 PH OU", while the rest of the mons would be classified as "UU by usage".

notable hits / misses

Some notable mons that made it into the top cut. Note that this tier is just usage-based, and not determined by the pokemon's success or viability.
Ferrothorn (7.3)
Steelix-Mega (6.2)
Sceptile-Mega (5.5)
Chesnaught (5.1)
Mawile-Mega (3.9)
Landorus-Therian (3.6)

Some notable mons that missed out
Beedrill-Mega (2.5)
Drapion (2.3)
Dialga (1.4)
Hoopa-Unbound (1.2)
Electrode (1.1)

Note: If you want to compare these stats to the last time oras hackmons had a ladder format, you can check out February 2015's Classic Hackmons ladder stats. This was a different meta, but the premise was similar.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/classichackmons-1760.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/leads/classichackmons-1760.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/moveset/classichackmons-1760.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-02/metagame/classichackmons-1760.txt

 

[JanieCox]

Rain is at 6.8% and I like to think that's because I ran not only a mega-sceptile rain team but ALSO a swift swim mega-heracross team
Also glad to see my boy Chesnaught hangin out with the OU crowd, he deserves it

 

[berry]

Sorry for the back to back, but this post serves a completely different purpose as the one above it. I think these stats can help us make educated guesses about viability rankings as well! I'm going to be going through all of the proposed viability rank movements and supporting (or opposing them!) with data.

rank changes that I will be implementing unless there is another discussion


Being at the top of the usage stats has shown that this pokemon fits the description of the S rank instead of the S- rank that was originally created for it. I had a lot of doubt at the beginning, but even with the rise of -ate mons, Giratina has still sat at the top.

vs
I was debating the difference between these mons earlier, but now that we have numbers, we can see that diancie is the more viable and used out of the two. Many players favored diancie for one reason or another. I think this makes the case for Diancie rising to A+ while Kyurem stays in A.

imposter
Imposter had insane usage this month, with around 20-25% of teams having an imposter chansey or blissey on their lineup. I agree with the posts above saying that imposter has risen in viability, as it has a great matchup vs a lot of mold breakers as well as having the ability to wall out and stall wonder guards and beat attackers. Imposter now more closely fits under the S- rank.

and being added to the ranks: I still agree with these and their placements, I don't think the stats have much of an effect on these mons' movement right now, so I think B and C respectively are accurate placements.

This mon's 13th place finish lends heavily to how viable it is as an anti-physical defender or a support teammate. I think that A- is a great place for it to be.

just barely scraped into the top 35. The mon is viable, but I don't think it's influential enough to be anywhere else but B Rank.

sitting at 41st, regular Groudon was used, but its viability is still questionable. B+ is an overrank, and C or below is where it deserves to be after these changes.

and dropping from S rankings:
I originally supported these, but these mons had insanely high usage in a heavy -ate meta and proved they should stay in the S rank.

I think my debate for moving this mon up to S fell a bit flat: gengar is an incredible mon, but it's nowhere near as dominant as some of the other threats in the format. It wins a ton and it can single handedly turn around games, but I don't think that that qualifies it for any higher than A+ rank at the current moment.

other rank changes that I think need more discussion. I will not be implementing these yet

-> This was the most used non-gyara non-deoxys mon on the high ladder, surpassing both of the mewtwo forms as well as the primals, gengar, and other major attackers. I think this supports the narrative that the mon has extremely high viability in the meta right now, and, in my opinion, should move up to A+. I want to hear more input on this one from other users, so I'll update this in the future.

This mon had extremely low usage on the ladder, just barely scraping it into the new "ou" umbrella. There was some discussion that it was vastly underrepresented because users didn't know soul dew worked on the mon, so they opted to choose another more straightforward mold breaker instead. I'm not too sure how accurate that is, but I'm willing to accept that it did change this mon's usage and it would've been much higher with a clear explanation of the mon's options. I still think dew usage wouldn't have boosted the mon up too much: it currently sits at 4.3% usage and I'm not too conviced it would've been some crazy high >10 number with community knowledge about soul dew.

 

[Feebas4ubers]

As some of you may have heard, I first discovered the return of the ladder on Wednesday, 3 days before its end. This was due to my own inactivity. Despite the massive shortage of time, I was determined to give it my all. Gen 6 hackmons was the meta I excelled the most at, and a meta I truly missed. I wanted to prove to myself I still had some potential. I haven't exactly contributed actively in anything hackmons or smogon related lately, but thought I'd share some of the thoughts I got during my ladder adventures, as well as the team(s) I used.

Proof of peak - #1, 1803 ELO, 92.2% GXE, 110 Wins/ 3 Losses

Three days later, after some sleep deprivation and some delicate pokemon-life balance...
View attachment 266322

The team I used was based on an old pre-oras team I had made, as previously shared in this old post from 2014: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...tarting-other-metagames.3515410/#post-5679782

The original team was made to deal with Huge Power MMX meta, a meta in which my defensive, bulky/semi-stallish playstyle struggled a lot. In the end, I thought "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". So to deal with this I came up with the idea of using Aerodactyl-Mega with Mold Breaker, and slapping a choice band on it. The idea was that if MMX was able to get a kill, I could send out Aerodactyl-Mega and return the favor, by forcing my opponent to sacrifice a mon. This was a time before stuff like Slowbro-Mega and Steelix-Mega, and at the time absolutely eveything in the metagame could get 2HKO'ed after Stealth Rocks damage- with the exception of physically defensive Giratina, which needed some minor prior damage. To go with Aerodactyl I added a solid defensive core, including a Gyarados with late game potential.

Importable, Feebas v0

View attachment 266327View attachment 266326View attachment 266329View attachment 266330View attachment 266331View attachment 266332
Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 HP / NaN Atk
- Curse
- Recover
- Encore
- Substitute

Arceus-Electric @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 HP / NaN Atk
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Whirlwind

Venusaur-Mega @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 HP / NaN Atk
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Heal Bell

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Diamond Storm
- U-turn

Yveltal @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Roost
- Topsy-Turvy

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat
- Shell Smash

I did have to adapt this team. You no longer could use more than 510 EVs, ORAS had since become a thing, and the meta-game had changed a lot. Most notably, the inclusion of many more mega-evolutions, Huge Power Spam no longer being as dominant, and how teams prepared differently. I didn't have much time, so I had to react quickly.

As a first iteration, I came up with this:


View attachment 266326
Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Recover
- Encore
- Substitute

Giratina was fairly unchanged from the original and works as the primary check to physical Mold Breakers on the team. Encore is a critical move here, as this team can give my opponent plenty of opportunities to set up, and an untimely death could break some crucial components in the defensive core. It also resists the weaknesses of both Wonder Guards, and combined with the physically defensive spread, it will be a fairly safe switch in whenever you want to figure out if an opposing pokemon could be Huge Power with a super effective move, locking them into it with Encore. Imposter is dealt with Yveltal.


View attachment 266331
Yveltal @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Roost
- Topsy-Turvy

The secondary member of my dual Prankster core. This one had to be specially defensive as it served as my main switchin to special Mold Breakers such as Lati@s-Mega and MMY, as well as the Mold Breaker Gengar-Mega counter (though I funnily enough never really saw it). It also deals very well with Giratina, which would be very annoying otherwise. Yveltal needs Safety Goggles to spam Spore, meaning it can be trapped by Shadow Tag, but even if Shadow Tag seemed more prevalent in the current meta than it used to be, this hardly became a problem as Shadow Taggers seemed to be mostly offensive now, instead of bulky stuff with Perish Song like back in the days. With its current moveset, Yveltal can mostly beat these one on one. Matter of fact, I cannot recall it being trapped once during my last ladder run. Imposter struggles against Safety Goggles.

View attachment 266329
Venusaur-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Heal Bell

A cleric and Magic Bouncer is very much needed on such a bulky team, and Venusaur-Mega provides a much needed Fairy resistance, while still resisting most of my Wonder Guards weaknesses. Being able to remove Toxic Spikes, and hit a spammable Toxic is a much appreciated bonus. I changed from Rocky Helmet to Shed Shell as Shadow Tag users were no longer bulky threats it could just Whirlwind out. Focusing on physical bulk made some sense with its now larger weakness to U-turn spam, making it harder to wear down - as you'd typically switch this in to things like defensive Wonder Guards. Imposter is dealt with via Whirlwind.
View attachment 266330
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Sacred Fire
- Diamond Storm
- U-turn

The star of the team, as previously mentioned. It took me a while to realize I no longer had to use Brave Bird. I changed Close Combat to Sacred Fire as Dialga was no longer a thing. The burn damage could also help against Giratina, Slowbro-mega and the likes, and is a fairly spammable move, preventing it from being walled by Aegislash (not that I saw any). Even though the meta had switched away from MMX spam, it still turned out to be an extremely useful mon that got a lot of switch in opportunities, and would rack up several kills through the course of the game, weakening the opposing team for a potential late game Gyarados sweep. Imposter is dealt with via Giratina (no Choice Band makes it less scary).

View attachment 266327
Arceus @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Whirlwind

Spread stolen from manu 11, allowing it to outspeed Gyarados, and firing off a Volt Switch. Set otherwise unchanged. Stealth Rock may look odd on a Wonder Guard, but it works well with Defog as this allows you to spam it without fear. Imposter is dealt with by Whirlwind, or Venusaur-Mega.

View attachment 266332
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat
- Shell Smash

There's the last one. Spread outspeeds Deoxys-S after a Shell Smash. I prefer Magic Coat over Taunt as this turns Prankster users less prone to stop a sweep. It also makes it easier to set up on Deoxys-S, and just set up in general really. Dual Wonder Guard is much needed for a defensive core to work in order to make No Guard less threatening - and really anything else with Gastro Acid. Vs Imposter: do not set up and mega evolve. If needed can be revenge killed by Yveltal.

Importable, Feebas v1

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Recover
- Encore
- Substitute

Arceus @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Whirlwind

Venusaur-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Heal Bell

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Sacred Fire
- Diamond Storm
- U-turn

Yveltal @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Roost
- Topsy-Turvy

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat
- Shell Smash

This team went approximatively 60W-2L, and didn't really have any super obvious weaknesses. It being very prone to counter teaming, and the ladder in general being very well prepared for Gyarados did make it tough to use at times though. It also lacked some recovery, and was prone to being worn down during long games. Outside of that, any Pokemon with coverage for both Wonder Guards were problematic, but hey - that's something you gotta take if you want to play a bulky team. I didn't really save replays as I wanted to reduce the chance of getting counter teamed, but I will share my losses. Replays are private, but since I am the reason they are so i'm assuming it should be fine.

Losses

Loss 1: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6purehackmons-1159437294-xvt4k4ccdng6mgyec9fbjbnq66wc4kbpw
A very early loss, illustrating one major issue with the team: how highly it relies on Gyarados-Mega despite the ladder being very well prepared for it - here with No Guard Deoxys-S with Zap Cannon. Game was still winnable though with accurate play, but a key mistake occured turn 65, ignoring Gengar-Megas possibility of having Judgment. I thus lost Giratina, and as a result any real chance of holding the game.

Loss 2 : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6purehackmons-1159979113-okdgb9mofyooe9m6k0tdp1cnzpeyilmpw
A hard counter-copycat team, specifically designed to beat mine. There was really nothing I could do. This did make me realize, however, that I had to adapt my team in a way to make it easier to add variation at any time, making me less prone to counter teams.

With these losses in mind, as well as some other difficult games, I realized I had to update my team. This is what I came up with:

Giratina: Unchanged

Yveltal: Unchanged

Aerodactyl-Mega: Unchanged

Gyarados:

Xerneas @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moonblast
- Baton Pass
- Magic Coat

Here's the Gyarados-replacement! It is also an offensive Wonder Guard, but one that relied less on set up as Moonblast is a very spammable move - and a strong one with the current spread. Smash Pass to Aerodactyl-Mega became a major threat. Xerneas is also really cool as it completely smashes Giratina, otherwise annoying for Aerodactyl-Mega, that the team now relies much more upon. For counter team-purposes I was open to mix this one up with something like MMY, though a new Pursuit weakness would be sad, and I never got in a position where I needed to change it. The EV spread could honestly be optimised way better in terms of removing some speed and putting rest in HP, but hey- I'm lazy. Magic Coat is a really, really cool move here, allowing Whirlwind to be virtually useless against it - same applies for sleep when used by mons without Safety Goggles. This made Xerneas a massive threat, as it would force more switches, that could be used to Baton Pass.

Venusaur-Mega:

Venusaur-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Haze
- Roost
- Heal Bell

Haze was essentially required to not get screwed over against Imposter on my Xerneas.


Arceus:

Arceus/Drapion/Scizor_Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Milk Drink
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Whirlwind

I experimented with regularly switching this Wonder Guard spot, but I liked in particular those with immunity to Toxic, as Venusaur-Mega was now weaker to Imposter. Milk Drink added some much needed recovery, preventing chip damage to become such a problem. This costed me Volt Switch, but Gyarados couldn't do that much against the team anyway so that felt fine. Speed was no longer needed.

Importable, Feebas v2

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
- Recover
- Encore
- Substitute

Arceus @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Milk Drink
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Whirlwind

Venusaur-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Haze
- Roost
- Heal Bell

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Sacred Fire
- Diamond Storm
- U-turn

Yveltal @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Roost
- Topsy-Turvy

Xerneas @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moonblast
- Baton Pass
- Magic Coat

This team felt really solid, as any weaknesses could be dealt with one way or another (coverage for both Wonder Guards was still a problem, of course). It did however get weaker to Imposter, and it relied much more on Aerodactyl-Mega. If I for some stupid reason lost Aerodactyl, I would often have to rely on PP stall to win - and nobody likes that. I would argue this team had a higher skill ceiling than the previous one, and a higher potential to beat anyone in the majority of matchups. It did however require more accurate play and mistakes seemed less forgiving. This team went approximatively 50W-1L, though I'll (not proudly) admit some of the wins were stalemates where my opponent forfeited due to a hopeless PP stall struggle for both sides.

Loss

My one loss was to manu 11. I wish i had saved the replay, but I didn't. The loss was for the most part just due to him playing very well, while I made several crucial mistakes. This included cursing on his Impostered Aerodactyl having U-Turn and losing all momentum, risking unnecessary speed ties, and just making poor risk/reward decisions in general. Some minor hax was also involved, but blaming the loss on that would be completely unfair.

With that being said, I had a really fun time on the ladder! This was a true nostalgia trip.

SHOUTOUTS:

berry : Thank you a lot for letting me know hackmons had a ladder once again! I did log on late, but without you I wouldn't have come back at all most likely.

manu 11 : Shoutouts for completely smashing me when we fought each other. Also for pushing each other on the ladder, it was really cool to see what we both could accomplish! And cheers for not playing that one last game while I was asleep during the ladder end- we both know you could have ended first if you wanted to

Everyone I met on ladder: Was fun playing y'all!

Everyone on old shark: Was fun to talk to all of you OG hackmons players from back in the days again. You new guys sound awesome as well!

Rage and rest of ROA Staff: Thank you for making this happen, I had a blast!

I truly hope Hackmons will come back again on the future. And when that happens - I see you all on the ladder again! Until then, Peace out!

EDIT: Yeah adding sprites of Pokemon didn't go that well it seems...Also, I wonder what I could achieve if I put this much effort into everything else in my life as well lol

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Since the Old Shark room wants more Gen 3 samples, I'm gonna put out an RMT of the sample you're getting.

The Hardworking TSS ~ Gen 3 PH


For a long time, everyone thought that the Gen 3 metagame was purely offensive. However, they were wrong; the best playstyles in Gen 3 by far are bulky offense and sand balance. But what about stall?

Stall was never tested in Gen 3 PCH, because the metagame was far more offensive there. In fact, the metagame actually became a lot bulkier in Gen 3 PH, because Slaking restricted offense and stopped things like Dugtrio and Deoxys-Attack that ruled Gen 3 PCH. Even though bulky offense was also the best playstyle in Gen 3 PCH, hyper offense was a very close second. In Gen 3 PH, hyper offense doesn't exist at all. Even Ninjask lead + Slaking spam, the best kind of hyper offense, needs supporting figures in order to beat certain threats that the team just can't win against, or threats that the team lacks time to react appropriately to. For example, the best partner for this team setup is Gengar, which stops both Kabutops and, to an extent, Ninjask + Slaking. However, Gengar's introduction into the team would make it stray from hyper offense, since Gengar is a fast support Pokemon, something that doesn't fit on hyper offense. This is an example of why hyper offense doesn't work in Gen 3 PH.

A good stall is very difficult to construct, since there are threats that require offensive pressure to break, as stalling them out would be harder and more complicated than simply attacking them. This makes "true stall" much worse. I think this stall is among the best kind of stall teams that you could make in Gen 3, though it isn't perfect and has difficulties regarding some matchups. However, against most Pokemon, this team does a great job of defending against them. Let's take a look!


Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Rock Blast
- Pursuit
- Recover
- Sleep Talk

Tyranitar is a common lead at this point in time, but nevertheless it is a strong lead. Tyranitar is the strongest lead to fight opposing Ninjask, besides Deoxys-Speed which is a very niche mon with little defensive capabilities. Alongside this, Tyranitar also has a good lead against Aerodactyl, as no matter what it does Tyranitar is able to fire off a strong Rock Blast. If Aerodactyl clicks Spore, Tyranitar is still able to use Sleep Talk. Tyranitar is also the best answer to Mewtwo, as it can easily switch into its attacks and Pursuit it. Recover + Sleep Talk is used over Rest + Sleep Talk so that Tyranitar is able to heal while it's asleep. Tyranitar's typing allows it to stomach Normal + Ghost coverage easily, making it a good answer to Slaking without Fighting coverage. The most important part, though, is Tyranitar's ability Sand Stream. It creates infinite sand, which is a blessing to stall. Infinite sand chips threats, adding on to Toxic and Spikes damage. It chips Slaking that have set up, making it very hard for them to pull off a sweep. And every member of the team, except Gengar (who has Leftovers), is immune to it. It disables the opponent's Leftovers as well. Sand is just about necessary for any stall team, which is why Tyranitar is so important.


Skarmory @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Sleep Talk

Skarmory plays an important role on this team. The Steel-Flying type has no physical weaknesses, as well as a Ground immunity. This gives it the role of the best Groudon counter in the whole game. Groudon is afraid to run Sacred Fire, as giving up any move could leave holes in Groudon's coverage. Skarmory also checks Belly Drum Slaking, as it can live one hit then Whirlwind it out. Skarmory is also the Rapid Spinner of this team, as Spikes are now popular, and they will harm the team as stall teams will have to switch a lot. Skarmory, with its typing, is immune to both Spikes and sand and so was deemed the best choice for a Rapid Spinner. Recover + Sleep Talk is used for the same reason as it is used on Tyranitar. Skarmory can also use Whirlwind to shuffle opponents through Spikes and sand, making them take high chip damage. Skarmory is holding a Lum Berry so that Skarmory can Whirlwind under a Slaking's Spore. It can also use it to predict when to Sleep Talk more accurately. Since Skarmory is very bulky, it can Whirlwind several times in succession without needing to use Recover. All of these traits make Skarmory an important team member.


Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Substitute
- Spore
- Baton Pass

Gengar is an important member of every team. Its ability to check every variant of Slaking in the game, provided it hasn't had its speed boosted by Ninjask, is invaluable. Alongside this, it checks and counters many other threatening Pokemon, such as Groudon, Kyogre, Aggron, and Quagsire. If Rayquaza has lost its Lum Berry, Gengar checks that as well. Passing Substitutes is very easy for Gengar, as it has several stallbreaking techiques in its toolbelt. It can stall out sand chip, which is always helpful, and it checks Kyogre and counters Groudon, which are pesky for stall teams as it removes the sand, and Tyranitar is only able to pivot into Pokemon that it counters, like Mewtwo. Otherwise, you will just have to find a time when Tyranitar can freely switch in on a predict. Gengar makes this a lot easier, as it can just pass a Substitute to Tyranitar, who can then reset sand. It's also the spinblocker of the team. There isn't much else to say about Gengar. It's just a very powerful support Pokemon.


Aggron @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cross Chop
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Talk

Aggron is an incredibly powerful physical wall, sporting a massive 180 Defense backed up by a Rock/Steel type. This gives Aggron a 4x Normal resist and a 2x Ghost resist, making it a powerful Slaking check. Its type also makes it a solid check to Pokemon like Rayquaza, Tyranitar, and Ho-Oh. In fact, it can live a single boosted hit from Rayquaza, except for a crit Leaf Blade, and retaliate with a Rock Blast which OHKOs when boosted thanks to the Adamant nature. Aggron doesn't run recovery because it doesn't need to. Aggron's bulk is so high that any chip can be mitigated with Leftovers. A boosted Cross Chop is also able to OHKO Slaking after Belly Drum, and a boosted crit Cross Chop is able to OHKO from full. Aggron's main problem, as well as its main strength, is its typing. Its Rock/Steel typing makes it 4x weak to Fighting, the most common attacking type, and Ground, commonly used on Groudon but nowhere else. However, Aggron forms a powerful core with Gengar, who is immune to Fighting and Ground. Gengar is weak to Ghost, Dark, and Psychic, all of which Aggron resists. Do note that Aggron doesn't take special attacks very well. Aggron brings the possibility of offensive pressure to a team that lacks it, and this makes it very valuable.


Tentacruel @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Tentacruel does two important jobs on the team. The first one is that it counters Kyogre. The second one is that it counters Rayquaza. Both are incredibly threatening to the team otherwise, so keep Tentacruel healthy. Ice Beam is able to 2HKO Rayquaza. The combination of Toxic and Whirlwind completely debilitates Kyogre as well, even if Kyogre carries Thunder. With the addition of Whirlwind to the set, Tentacruel loses out on Sleep Talk, and must carry Lum Berry in order to survive sleep. Tentacruel's typing also gives it only one physical weakness in Ground, so aside from Groudon, it has no physical weaknesses. A Timid nature is used to outspeed Rayquaza and Ice Beam it. Tentacruel is a simple Pokemon, but also a strong one, and one worth considering on your team.


Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Ability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earthquake
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
- Spikes

Groudon is the final member of the team. Groudon has some of the highest physical bulk in the entire game, along with no Fighting weakness. Groudon isn't necessarily a Slaking check. Instead, it's a check to every other physical attacker, since it has no physical weaknesses. This Pokemon was chosen as the Spikes setter due to its bulk and speed. When one sees Groudon, they expect the Dragon Dance set, so a physically defensive Spikes set will usually throw the opponent off their game. Sacred Fire gives coverage to hit Skarmory, create Fire-Ground coverage, and inflict burns. Groudon has a Lum Berry because it has no Sleep Talk, and it is able to Recover easily, and it has No Ability because Drought only boosts the power of Sacred Fire, which is not important, and disrupts the sand. Sacred Fire gives it an advantage over Skarmory, the primary spinner of the metagame. All in all, Groudon performs important roles on the team and is a strong Pokemon.

Threatlist

The combination of Spikes, sand, and the three checks in Aggron, Skarmory and Gengar all make it very difficult for BD Slaking to break through. Support Slaking is countered by Gengar, and DD Taunt Slaking is countered by Groudon. CB Slaking is a different story; Trick is a very dangerous stallbreaking technique. The matchup is difficult, but not impossible.

Ninjask has a bad matchup against Tyranitar, who has the deadly combination of Rock Blast, Pursuit, and Sand Stream. It's mostly a support Pokemon, so the threats that Ninjask brings in are more important to beat.

Tentacruel counters every set.

Tyranitar can switch in and use Pursuit. If Gengar has used Belly Drum, sacrifice a team member, then bring in Tentacruel and Whirlwind.

Countered by Skarmory, Gengar, and Groudon.

Countered by Tentacruel. If Rayquaza lost its Lum Berry, Gengar can Spore it and then pass a Substitute to Aggron, who can then Swords Dance while the Rayquaza is sleeping, then OHKO it with Rock Blast.

Countered by Aggron and Groudon.

Countered by Gengar and Groudon.

Countered by Skarmory, Gengar, Aggron (behind a Substitute) and Groudon.

Countered by Tyranitar.

Countered by Tyranitar, Skarmory, and Aggron.

Countered by Gengar and Groudon. Note that if Groudon is below 32% then it cannot switch in.

Countered by Gengar, Aggron (if Aromatherapy), and Tentacruel (if Whirlwind).

Countered by Skarmory and Gengar.

Countered by Tyranitar, Aggron, and Tentacruel.

Countered by Tyranitar and Groudon.

Countered by Skarmory, Tentacruel, and Groudon.

importable

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Rock Blast
- Pursuit
- Recover
- Sleep Talk

Skarmory @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Sleep Talk

Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Substitute
- Spore
- Baton Pass

Aggron @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cross Chop
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Talk

Tentacruel @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Ability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earthquake
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
- Spikes

That's the RMT in full. I'd like to shoutout Ransei because he's gonna add this as a sample.