Old Gens Other Metas Mega Thread

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#1
Approved by The Immortal
Most of OP written by MAMP



Banner by Centinela
Introduction: Welcome to the Old Gens Other Metas Megathread! This thread will host the discussion of popular past Other Metas that were enjoyed generations 1-6. Listed below are indexes for each metagame which links useful information such as banlists and links to other resources to help understand the specific metagame. This thread will also act as a place to discuss potential reforms of these specific metagames, meaning that potential bans and unbans may likely take place after useful discussion through the discretion the of the metagame's specific leader. You may also post teams, replays, and general thoughts on these metagames in this thread to help garner some discussion. All these metagames are available to be played on ROM.

General Old Gen OM Resources
Gen 6 Other Metagames Subforum
Gen 6 OM Archive (this is where the Gen V threads are)
Gen 6 OM Index
Older OM Index (has Gen V metas/resources)
Gen 6 Old Gens Megathread
Pokemon Throwback

Gen 6 OM Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Team Dump
Ransei's OM Sample Weebly

Ruins of Alph subforum
Past Gens Resource Archive
Mechanical Differences Between the Gens
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#2
1v1

As the name would suggest, 1v1 is a metagame where you bring just 1 Pokemon into battle. Beginning in Gen VI, you bring 3 Pokemon to team preview and then choose 1 to battle with.
Banlist and Clauses
ORAS 1v1 uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause
Evasion Clause
Moody Clause
ORAS 1v1 uses the ORAS OU banlist with some exceptions:

Bans
Items: Focus Sash

Unbans
Pokemon: Aegislash, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus
Items: Gengarite, Lucarionite, Mawilite, Sablenite

Resources and Discussion
Metagame Discussion Thread
Resources Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Sets Compendium, and Speed Tiers)

Beginner’s Guide to 1v1 by Dream Eater Gengar, Articuno I, and Fake Melo
Face-to-face: Archetypes of 1v1 by Dream Eater Gengar and Rosalyn

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen V 1v1 is played without Team Preview — just bring one Pokemon!

Banlist and Clauses
Gen V 1v1 uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause
Evasion Clause
Moody Clause

Gen V 1v1 uses the Gen V OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

Bans
Items: Focus Sash

Unbans
Pokemon: Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Excadrill, Genesect, Manaphy, Thundurus-Incarnate, Tornadus-Therian

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread

Sample Teams

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen III 1v1 was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for September 2014.

Banlist and Clauses
ADV 1v1 uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause
Evasion Clause
ADV 1v1 uses the ADV OU banlist.

Resources and Discussion
Discussion in Throwback Thread


Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#3
Almost Any Ability

Almost Any Ability is a metagame that gives every Pokemon access to any ability, except the few that are banned for balance. For obvious reasons, this metagame cannot exist in the first two generations.

Banlist and Clauses
ORAS AAA uses ORAS OU clauses with the addition of:

Ability Clause: Limit two of each ability per team
ORAS AAA uses the GEN OU banlist with some exceptions:

Bans
Pokemon: Archeops, Bisharp, Chatot, Dragonite, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Mamoswine, Regigigas, Shedinja, Slaking, Smeargle, Snorlax, Suicune, Terrakion, Weavile
Moves: Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon
Abilities: (these can still be used on their original users): Arena Trap, Contrary, Fur Coat, Huge Power, Illusion, Imposter, Parental Bond, Protean, Pure Power, Simple, Speed Boost, Wonder Guard


Unbans
Pokemon: Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Greninja, Landorus


Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Resources Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Speed Tiers, and Role Compendium)
Creative/Underrated Sets Thread
Role Compendium
Good Cores

Introduction to AAA by Snaquaza and Kl4ng

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#4
Anything Goes

Created as a tier to house Mega Rayquaza, Anything Goes allows the use of anything that can be obtained in-game without hacking or glitches. This means there are no bans and no clauses!

Banlist and Clauses
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Resources Thread (includes Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Threatlist, Speed Tiers, Role Compendium)
Good Cores

The Creation of Anything Goes by Vertex
Baton Pass in Anything Goes by Josh and Chloe
Copy Paste: Breaking the Species Clause in Anything Goes by Megazard
Don’t Use That, Use This: AG by TheTiksiBranch
AG Spotlight: Mega Rayquaza by TheTiksiBranch
AG Spotlight: Xerneas by Megazard and Dream Eater Gengar

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen V AG was selected as the Ruins of Alph showcase ladder for December 2016.

Banlist and Clauses
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread

Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#5
Balanced Hackmons

In Balanced Hackmons, any Pokemon may use any move and any ability, excepting the few that are banned. Additionally, Pokemon can start the game in alternate forms without having to transform into them, and in generations prior to Gen VI may have 252 EVs in every stat.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Evasion Clause: Evasion boosting moves (ie: Minimize and Double Team) are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Ability Clause: Limited 2 of the same ability per team
-Ate Clause: No more than one -ate ability per team

Bans
Pokemon: Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre
Moves: Chatter, Assist
Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Shadow Tag*, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard, Parental Bond*, Protean

*Available through Mega Evolution (ie: Gengarite and Kangaskhanite)

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Suspects and Bans Thread
BH Central (includes Viability Rankings and Speed Tiers)
Creative and Underrated Sets Thread
Good Cores

Balanced Hackmons 101: Imposters and Imposter-Proofing by HeadsILoseTailsYouWin
Balanced Hackmons 101: Priority and -ates by HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and morogrim
Underrated Abilities in the Balanced Hackmons Metagame by wishes

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen V BH allows 252 EVs in each stat.

Banlist and Clauses

Gen V Balanced Hackmons uses the following clause:
OHKO Clause
Sleep Clause

Gen V Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

Bans
Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Wonder Guard, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Viability Rankings (note: not a traditional VR!)
The Complete and Comprehensive Guide to Balanced Hackmons
Underused Pokemon in the Balanced Hackmons Metagame
OM Team Study - Balanced Hackmons

Balanced Hackmons Smogcast with chaos, Zarel, MJB, imanalt, MikeDecIsHere, verbatim

Introduction to "Balanced" Hackmons by verbatim and DTC
Anything Goes! Balanced Hackmons Threats Revealed by Ezio and imanalt

Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen IV BH does not have Team Preview and allows 252 EVs in each stat. It was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for July 2014.

Banlist and Clauses

Gen IV BH uses the following clauses.
OHKO Clause
Ability Clause

Gen IV Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

Bans
Abilities: Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard, Huge Power, Pure Power, Weather + Speed Boosting Weather Ability


Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread

Sample Teams

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen III BH allows 252 EVs in each stat.

Banlist and Clauses
banlist created by MAMP and DG9
Gen III Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause
Sleep Clause

Gen III Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

Bans
Pokemon: Slaking
Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard
Items: Soul Dew
Moves: Belly Drum

Resources and Discussion
Brief metagame analysis post by MAMP (note that slaking was banned since this post)

Sample Teams

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen II BH allows 252 EVs in each stat.

Banlist and Clauses
banlist created by anna says hi
Gen II Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause
Evasion Clause
Sleep Clause
Mewtwo Clause: Limit one Mewtwo per team
Sleep Trap Clause - Players may not have a trapping move (Spider Web, Mean Look) and a sleep-inducing move (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Hypnosis) on the same Pokemon.
Resources and Discussion

Brief metagame analysis post by anna says hi

Sample Teams

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen I BH allows 252 EVs in each stat

Banlist and Clauses
banlist created by MAMP and Quantum Tesseract
Gen I Balanced Hackmons uses the following clauses:
Sleep Clause
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
Freeze Clause
Gen I Balanced Hackmons uses the following banlist:

Bans
Pokemon: Mewtwo
Moves: Fire Spin, Wrap, Bind, Clamp


Resources and Discussion


Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
 
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Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#6
Mix and Mega

In Mix and Mega, the limit of 1 mega evolution per game is removed and any Pokemon can use any mega stone, gaining the stat boosts, ability, and typing change that the normal user of the mega stone wold usually receive. As Mega Stones were introduced in the sixth generation, Mix and Mega does not exist prior to that.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI Mix and Mega uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Evasion Clause: Evasion boosting moves (ie: Minimize and Double Team) are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Endless Battle Clause: Battlers cannot force an endless battle
Gen VI Mix and Mega uses the Gen VI Ubers banlist with the exception(s) of:

Bans
Pokemon*: Kyurem-B, Regigiggas, Slaking, Dragonite, Cresselia, Manaphy
Moves: Baton Pass
Items**: Beedrilite, Mawilite, Medichamite, Kangaskhanite, Gengarite

* Banned from mega evolving
** Stones are available to be used on their natural user

Resources and Discussion

Discussion Thread
Mega Stone Boosts spreadsheet by Tyrell D. Barnes

Mixing Things Up: A Beginner’s Guide to Mix and Mega by CrystalFalchion
OMotM Spotlight: Mix and Mega by nv


Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread
Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
 
Last edited:

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#7
Inverse Battle

Inverse Battle inverts the type chart, making super-effective moves not very effective and vice-versa.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI Inverse Battle uses Gen VI OU clauses.

Gen VI Inverse Battle uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

Bans
Pokemon: Kyurem-Black, Snorlax, Diggersby, Serperior

Unbans
Pokemon: Genesect, Aegislash, Dialga, Giratina, Greninja, Landorus-I
Items: Mawilite, Lucarionite

Resources and Discussion

Discussion Thread
Viability Rankings
Role Compendium
Good Cores

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


Sketchmons

Sketchmons lets every Pokemon learn the move Sketch once, thus giving every Pokemon access to 1 new move that they couldn't otherwise learn.

Banlist and Clauses

Gen VI Sketchmons uses Gen VI OU clauses with the addition of:
Sketch Clause: A team can have no more than one of the same sketch move per team. (for example you cannot have two Pokemon with Extreme Speed that do not get it normally)
Gen VI Sketchmons uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

Bans
Pokemon: Diggersby
Moves: Unreleased Moves, Chatter, Shell Smash
Items: King's Rock, Razor Fang, Pinsirite

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread (includes Viability Rankings and Sample Team)

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


Stabmons

In STABmons, Pokemon can learn any move that shares a type with them.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI STABmons uses Gen VI OU clauses.

Gen VI STABmons uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

Bans
Pokemon: Diggersby, Porygon-Z, Kyurem-B, Thundurus
Moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Lovely Kiss, Dark Void, Geomancy, Shift Gear
Items: Altarianite, Metagrossite, Aerodactylite

Resources and Discussion

Discussion Thread
Viability Rankings
Role Compendium (unfinished)
Good Cores
Creative and Underrated Sets

Normal-types in the STABmons Metagame by unfixable
What not to run in the STABmons metagame by wishes
STABmons Changes in ORAS by wishes and asterat
Move Donors: Giving the Gift of Life in STABmons by Eevee General
Relevant Moves in STABmons by baconbagon
(BAN ME PLEASE): A Look Back at the Bans in STABmons by Kris and baconbagon
Exit: STABmons by Eevee General and wishes

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread
Neon Town (Eevee General’s team shop)


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Banlist and Clauses
Gen V STABmons uses Gen V OU clauses with the addition of:

Limited Normals Clause: Only 1 instance of extra STAB is allowed for Normal-types, including access through the Pre-evo and Forme Clauses

Gen V STABmons uses the Gen V OU banlist with the exception(s) of:

Unbans
Pokemon: Darkrai, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Excadrill, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Landorus

Resources and Discussion

Discussion Thread
OM Team Study - STABmons

Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen IV STABmons was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for August 2014.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen IV STABmons uses Gen IV OU clauses:

Gen IV STABmons uses the Gen IV OU banlist with the exceptions of:

Bans
Moves: Belly Drum
Items: BrightPowder

Resources and Discussion
Discussion in Throwback Thread

Sample Teams

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


Smogon Triples

The Triples metagame allows players to play with 3 Pokemon at once! The 6 Pokemon battlefield offers much diversity and unique strategies.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI Triples uses the following clauses:
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are bannedEvasion Clause: Evasion boosting moves (ie: Minimize and Double Team) are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is bannedEndless Battle Clause: Battlers cannot force an endless battle

Gen VI Triples uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

Bans
Moves: Dark Void, Perish Song

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Viability Rankings

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!


Tier Shift

Tier Shift buffs lower tier Pokemon by giving them +5 to each of their base stats for each tier they are below OU.
Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI Tier Shift uses Gen VI OU clauses.

Gen VI Tier Shift uses the Gen VI OU banlist with the exceptions of:

Bans
Moves: Chatter
Abilities: Swift Swim

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Viability Rankings
Role Compendium
Good Cores

Sample Teams
Gen 6 OM Sample Teams Thread


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Banlist and Clauses
Gen V Tier Shift uses Gen V OU clauses.

Gen V Tier Shift uses the Gen V OU banlist.

Resources and Discussion
Discussion Thread
Viability Rankings

War of the Weathers: A Look at Weather in Tier Shift by ryan
Equality for All? Common Tier Shift Threats Explained by Yarnus of Bethany

Sample Teams


Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
Gen IV Tier Shift was chosen as the Pokemon Throwback ladder for October 2014.

Banlist and Clauses
Gen IV Tier Shift uses Gen IV OU clauses.

Gen IV Tier Shift uses the Gen IV OU banlist.

Resources and Discussion
Discussion in Throwback Thread

Sample Teams

Replays
None yet. If you have any high quality replays of this metagame please share them in this thread and I'll add them!
 
Last edited:
#8
Idk about sleep clause but I've been having trouble falling asleep lately and counting mareeps ain't helping. My teacher kept yelling like "hey mother y u snoosing in class like dude stop snoosing it's class dude stop like just stop stop dude like it's class stop" and I was so tired I was just like dude chill there's no sleep clause yet amarite and he didn't get it he wwas like stop snoosing dude but there's no sleep clause so w/e I told him to piss off and he called my dad but he didn't know my dad was a psychokille and he hit him with the stakeout v-create on the grough scizzor my teacher was chambled dude he was in chables like chambled dude like he didn't know he was like " i don't know" chambled dude i'm telling you and he got str8 ohkod like piff paff like just the hp dropped and i have dreams about hp dropping at night becuse of innards out traumatising me and thats why i can't sleep but there's no sleep clause so w/e.
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#9
Ok so after discussing with E4 Flint, we decided to form a council consisting of me, motherlove and MAMP. With this, we decided to stop the current Sleep Clause discussion (for now) and are moving onto discussing banning -ates entirely from Gen 6 Balanced Hackmons.

This has been a polarizing topic in last gen's iteration of BH, and we feel the issue should finally be resolved within this thread in order to ensure the most balance metagame, however keep in mind that our ideal is to preserve the most minimalist banlist as possible, where bans are only preserved for extreme cases. The council will follow philosophy derived from the Bans and Suspects thread linked. Previous discussion upon this can be found here.

Please share your thoughts on the matter, and we will likely take it into consideration.

Also no more shitposting from here on out :)
 
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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
Moderator
#10
I have decided to give most of the decision making power for gen 6 bh to a BH6 Council which will consist initially of Funbot28 motherlove and MAMP. I feel that, after myself, they are the next best choices to keep things going and I am primarily interested in the current iteration of BH. They are free to follow my philosophy and decisions or deviate from it if they wish (e.g. my decisions on sleep clause, ates w/e) and I will mostly stay on in an advisory role.
 
#11
Obviously I've still got some of the Gen VI metagames running on ROM, but I was curious as I didn't seem to have the same banlists. Here is a list of where ROM has differences, so you can check whether ROM's code is wrong:

1v1
Banlist and Clauses

Historically, unbans were implemented by listing all the clauses manually. This means that 1v1 may not have accurately followed the OU clauses. However I don't think the missing clauses were interesting (Baton Pass Clause, anyone?)

Bans
Items: Focus Sash
ROM's code also bans Perish Song and Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss.

Almost Any Ability

Bans
Pokemon: Archeops, Bisharp, Chatot, Dragonite, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Mamoswine, Regigigas, Shedinja, Slaking, Smeargle, Snorlax, Suicune, Terrakion, Weavile
ROM's code bans Chatter rather than Chatot, not that it makes any difference.

Balanced Hackmons

Banlist and Clauses
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
ROM's code bans Moody instead of using the clause for some reason.

Mix and Mega

Banlist and Clauses
Gen VI Mix and Mega uses the following clauses:
ROM's code uses the Ubers clauses, such as the Mega Rayquaza clause.

Bans
Pokemon: Kyurem-B, Regigiggas, Slaking, Dragonite, Cresselia, Manaphy
ROM's code also bans Lucario from mega evolving (except with Lucarionite).

Moves: Baton Pass
ROM's code also bans Dynamic Punch, Electrify and Zap Cannon.

ROM's code allows the following Uber Pokémon to hold mega stones: Aegislash, Blaziken, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus.

Monotype

Bans
Pokemon: Talonflame
Items: Altarianite, Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Metagrossite, Slowbronite, Sablenite, Smooth Rock
ROM's code doesn't ban Sableye-Mega or Smooth Rock.

Unbans
Pokemon: Landorus-I, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D
ROM's code also unbans Aegislash and Hoopa-Unbound.
Abilities: Shadow Tag
ROM's code doesn't unban Shadow Tag.

Stabmons

Bans
Moves: Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Lovely Kiss, Dark Void, Geomancy, Shift Gear
ROM's code excludes (rather than bans) Acupressure and Chatter from those Pokémon that don't naturally learn them. (Interestingly I checked the history and found that those moves got reincluded and then reexcluded 4 days later, so ROM's code must have come from that window of opportunity.)

Smogon Triples

Gen VI Triples uses the Gen VI OU banlist
ROM's code has a custom banlist consisting of Arceus, Dialga, Giratina (both), Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom.

Tier Shift

Bans
Moves: Chatter
Abilities: Swift Swim
ROM's code doesn't ban these, instead it bans Damp Rock.
 

DEG

A n x i e t y
is a Smogon Media Contributor
#12
Obviously I've still got some of the Gen VI metagames running on ROM, but I was curious as I didn't seem to have the same banlists. Here is a list of where ROM has differences, so you can check whether ROM's code is wrong:

1v1
Banlist and Clauses

Historically, unbans were implemented by listing all the clauses manually. This means that 1v1 may not have accurately followed the OU clauses. However I don't think the missing clauses were interesting (Baton Pass Clause, anyone?)

Bans
Items: Focus Sash
ROM's code also bans Perish Song and Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss.

Monotype

Bans
Pokemon: Talonflame
Items: Altarianite, Charizardite X, Damp Rock, Metagrossite, Slowbronite, Sablenite, Smooth Rock
ROM's code doesn't ban Sableye-Mega or Smooth Rock.

Unbans
Pokemon: Landorus-I, Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D
ROM's code also unbans Aegislash and Hoopa-Unbound.
Abilities: Shadow Tag
ROM's code doesn't unban Shadow Tag.
ROM's 1v1 bans are correct. Perish Song is banned and Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss is banned due to illegalities. However Monotype banlist is incorrect, Mega Sableye and Smooth Rock are both banned. While Shadow Tag and Hoopa-U are also unbanned. Aegislash is banned.
 
#13
ROM's 1v1 bans are correct. Perish Song is banned and Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss is banned due to illegalities. However Monotype banlist is incorrect, Mega Sableye and Smooth Rock are both banned. While Shadow Tag and Hoopa-U are also unbanned. Aegislash is banned.
Thanks, I've updated ROM's code with those changes, and also the STABmons changes. I've also finished adding the other formats to ROM, which takes it up to a nice round 300 formats!
 
#14
Ok so after discussing with E4 Flint, we decided to form a council consisting of me, motherlove and MAMP. With this, we decided to stop the current Sleep Clause discussion (for now) and are moving onto discussing banning -ates entirely from Gen 6 Balanced Hackmons.

This has been a polarizing topic in last gen's iteration of BH, and we feel the issue should finally be resolved within this thread in order to ensure the most balance metagame, however keep in mind that our ideal is to preserve the most minimalist banlist as possible, where bans are only preserved for extreme cases. The council will follow philosophy derived from the Bans and Suspects thread linked. Previous discussion upon this can be found here.

Please share your thoughts on the matter, and we will likely take it into consideration.

Also no more shitposting from here on out :)
Obviously, I'm a little late on weighing in, but personally I would say no. Ate users are some of the best in the metagame, yes, but I never really found any of them bar choice Specs ray unbearable. Even for offense, preparing information opposing ray isn't that much of a burden: you need to imposterproof your own, after all. Maybe new playstyles would shine without it, but if we're being honest steel isn't just used to answer -ate+coverage.
 
#15
Some BW Balanced Hackmons teams I have
My rain
Palkia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Water Spout
- Magma Storm
- Sleep Talk

Palkia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Water Spout
- Trick
- Secret Sword / Magma storm

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Recover
- Spider Web

Jirachi @ Lum Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Spider Web
- Perish Song
- Milk Drink

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Whirlwind
- Heal Order

Giratina @ Mail
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Curse
- Heal Bell
- Rapid Spin

My take on rain. It's palkia's check is the chansey walls it pretty handily since chansey doesnt have the specs boost. Rain was ridiculous back in the day because waterspout specs or tailglow palkia were really hard to wall.

Klang's Rain
Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magic Coat
- Recover
- Water Spout
- Draco Meteor

Giratina @ Mail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Gastro Acid
- Recover
- Encore

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Endeavor
- Recycle
- Ice Shard

Arceus-Ghost @ Leftovers
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Belly Drum
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Palkia @ Draco Plate
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Judgment
- Water Spout
- Tail Glow
- Recover

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Heal Bell

Idt Klang cares if I post his rain since its been like 4 years lol. But Klang's rain defined the rain playstyle. Rain to prevent sand to basically keep shedinja generally invulnerable. It was really hard to get rid of shedinja if the individual did not use a moldbreaker, sand,or catching them with a rouge rocky helmet. Klang rain utilized shedinja to wall palkias since most normal stall walls cannot withstand rain spam.

Sand Stall (sleep abuse)
Ferrothorn @ Mail
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Recover
- Magic Coat

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Simple Beam
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin

Lugia @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Spore
- Whirlwind
- Roost

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Spore
- Whirlwind
- Milk Drink

Meloetta-Pirouette @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Rush

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Milk Drink
- Foul Play
- Leech Seed
- Perish Song


My take on sleep abusement. Sleep resets when a pokemon switches out in gen 5 so in gen 5 bh it is possible to sleep cycle an opponent's whole team. Team abuses this to pretty great effect. Meloetta is life orb instead of toxic orb because +2 dragon rush ohkos spdef giratina after rocks, so I felt it was worth to run life orb over toxic orb but it can be interchangeable.

Sand Offense
Ferrothorn @ Mail
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Toxic Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Heal Order
- Magic Coat

Archeops @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Shell Smash

Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Nature Power
- Swords Dance
- Bolt Strike
- Destiny Bond

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Magma Storm
- Psystrike

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Foul Play
- Leech Seed
- Milk Drink
- Perish Song

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Milk Drink
- Rapid Spin

My take on sand offense. The latios set can be interchanged with a sand rush variant but I prefer regenerator for prolonged matches.

Weatherless offense
Escavalier @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Gyro Ball
- Recover
- V-create

Dialga @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Order
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Landorus-Therian @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Nature Power
- Bolt Strike
- Swords Dance

Giratina-Origin @ Draco Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Spore
- Secret Sword

Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Spore
- Dragon Tail

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- U-turn
- Soft-Boiled

My weatherless offense I used near the end of the bw meta. Just a bunch of good strong pokemon in the meta it was in. With destiny bond prank lando and chansey as the main "emergency" defensive maneuvers.

I'll see if I can rebuild the sun playstyle from replays at some point but those were the decent bw bh teams I could find from my archives.
 
Last edited:

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
#17
Any reason why gen 6 Inverse doesn't have any bans or clauses on PS? There's nothing on neither the gen 7 nor the gen 6 thread that indicates that Inverse went AG.
 
#19
Hey everyone! After a bunch of thought and discussion, me and Funbot have decided to ban Belly Drum and Soul Dew from ADV BH. Simply put, the defensive tools just don't exist in this generation to handle either of these threats reliably and we felt that the metagame would be a lot more interesting without them.

This means that the ruleset is now:

BANS
Pokemon: Slaking
Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, Wonder Guard
Items: Soul Dew
Moves: Belly Drum

Clauses: Sleep Clause, OHKO Clause

With that being said, ADV (Gen III) BH is one of the best metagames I've ever played and I think everyone should give it a try. Here's a short guide to the tier to help you build teams and get into it:

MAMP'S SUPER COOL GUIDE TO GEN III BALANCED HACKMONS

If the only version of BH you've played is SM, ADV BH will undoubtedly look very foreign. The meta is pre-physical/special split, it has no team preview, and most of the powerful Pokemon and abilities that define later generations of BH are absent. Yet ADV BH is a very balanced and complex metagame with a large variety of viable Pokemon and strategies, and so much of it is still unexplored.

IMPORTANT MECHANICAL DIFFERENCES
The most significant mechanical difference between Gen III and later generations is the lack of physical-special split. In other words, whether a move is physical or special is determined by its type.

Physical: Normal, Ground, Rock, Fighting, Steel, Poison, Bug, Flying, Ghost
Special: Fire, Water, Grass, Ice, Electric, Psychic, Dark, Dragon

The main effect this has on the metagame is that it effectively limits the range of coverage options available for offensive mons. A huge part of the reason that Skarmory is such a good physical wall is because physical attackers literally can't hit it super effectively without going mixed. This essentially makes offense mons a little bit more predictable (besides the few that can go mixed), as they can't run literally any coverage move they want.

ADV BH has no team preview. The Pokemon in the first slot of your party is sent out first, and you won't know what Pokemon your opponent has until they send them out. This creates an entirely new dynamic, as you attempt to guess the contents of your opponents team based on the sets that you've seen so far.

Weather generated by Drizzle, Drought, and Sand Stream lasts indefinitely (or until replaced by a different weather). Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and Sandstorm work as they do in later generations.

Sandstorm does not boost the special defense of rock types.

Outrage has 90 base power. Don’t use it.

Tail Glow only gives +2 special attack.

Explosion halves the opponents defense before dealing damage, effectively giving it 500 base power. This makes it an exceptionally powerful luring option, even on special attackers.

Fake Out and ExtremeSpeed have only +1 priority.

Black Glasses, Magnet et al only give a 1.1x boost.

Sitrus Berry only recovers 30 HP rather than 25%.

Sturdy doesn’t work like it does in later generations, only protecting the Pokemon from OHKO moves like Sheer Cold and Fissure (which are banned). This means that Sturdy Shedinja does not work the way you might hope.

The trapping effect of Block and Mean Look can be passed with Baton Pass.

Wish always heals 50% of the recipients HP and is not based on the HP of the mon that used Wish.

Substitute does not block Transform.

If I've missed something important here please let me know!


THREATLIST
Offensive Threats

Mewtwo's fantastic speed and Special Attack make it one of the scariest late-game sweepers in the metagame, although its poor offensive typing makes it difficult for it to get past most defensive mons without setting up. Tail Glow is its scariest set, but Mewtwo has a huge range of viable options.

Checks and counters: Bulky steels, bulky psychics, dark types, defensive Kyogre, Ho-oh, Blissey
Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia / Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt / Sacred Fire
- Ice Beam / Crunch / Taunt


Excellent offensive stats and great STABs make Rayquaza one of the most powerful and unpredictable wallbreakers in the tier. Rayquaza can easily go mixed and can tailor its moveset to beat any defensive Pokemon it wants, and can even set up with Dragon Dance to shred unprepared offense teams.

Checks and counters: Bulky flying resists (especially those with a ground immunity), random Intimidate mons, Lugia, faster mons with ice/dragon moves (ie Latios, Mewtwo, Raikou)
Rayquaza @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts / Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aeroblast
- Earthquake / Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Trick / Explosion / Thunderbolt


The raw power of Kyogre's STAB rain-boosted water moves is unmatched in ADV BH, and practically necessitates a bulky water resist or Water Absorb mon on every team. Kyogre is both the best Drizzle user and the best Swift Swimmer, making it the backbone of rain teams.

Checks and counters: Lati@s, defensive Kyogre (especially Volt Absorb), Celebi, Blissey, Water Absorb
Kyogre @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Drizzle / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow / Water Spout
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder / Recover


While it is no longer the metagame defining juggernaut it was before the Soul Dew ban, Latios remains one of the scariest set-up sweepers in the tier. Latios' speed and special attack stats are excellent, and its dragon STAB is resisted only by steel types, giving it a lot of freedom to tailor its coverage to whatever your team needs.

Checks and counters: Bulky steels, Blissey, Lugia, defensive Kyogre
Latios @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt / Sacred Fire
- Recover / Toxic


While it suffers somewhat from the prevalence of flying types and Levitate users in the tier, Groudon is still a powerful offensive threat. Earthquake hits extremely hard against anything that doesn't resist it, especially when boosted by Choice Band or Dragon Dance.

Checks and counters: Lugia, Levitate, Celebi, Intimidate, defensive Kyogre, Zapdos, Skarmory
Groudon @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Guts / Hustle
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Extreme Speed / Megahorn / Explosion


Snorlax's niche is its decent bulk and access to STAB Extreme Speed, making it a potent revenge killer and powerful sweeper in the late game. However, it doesn't have the same raw wallbreaking power as other offensive mons and so has to rely a lot on its coverage moves to get through many common defensive mons.

Checks and counters: Normal resists (especially those with ground immunities), Intimidate, burn
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts / Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake / Superpower
- Shadow Ball


Raikou has a very nice speed tier, putting it just ahead of Lugia, Lati@s, and Modest Mewtwo. Additionally, Raikou has decent bulk, a very useful flying resistance and only 1 weakness. Its Thunderbolt hits many of the tier's best special walls super effectively, and it can pair that with Ice Beam for unresisted coverage. Put together, Raikou is a powerful and versatile special attacker that poses a serious threat to all playstyles.

Checks and counters: Volt Absorb, Celebi, Lati@s, Groudon, Blissey
Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate / Water Absorb / Drizzle
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow / Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Toxic / Recover / Substitute


Zapdos occupies a similar niche to Raikou, trading speed for slightly better special attack and a crucial flying typing. Zapdos' immunity to Earthquake makes it a good offensive check to Rayquaza and Groudon, and the extra 10 base special attack let it achieve a few OHKOs and 2HKOs that Raikou misses. Zapdos' speed tier is notably worse than Raikou's however.

Checks and counters: Volt Absorb, Celebi, Lati@s, Groudon, Blissey
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle / Intimidate
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow / Calm Mind
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover


Ho-oh has an awkward offensive typing and faces a ton of competition from Rayquaza, but it finds a niche as arguably the best sun abuser and a solid offensive Mewtwo check. Sun-boosted Sacred Fire hits very hard despite Ho-oh's middling special attack, and Ho-oh has the tools to deal with most common fire resists. Purely physical sets are largely done better by Rayquaza, but it can run a decent Bulk Up set that takes advantage of its great special bulk.

Checks and counters: Kyogre, Flash Fire, Lati@s, Tyranitar, rock moves
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought / Chlorophyll
Modest / Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sacred Fire
- Tail Glow / Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Aeroblast
- Recover / Ice Beam / Aeroblast

Niche offensive threats:


Defensive Threats
note: insomnia and natural cure are good options on basically all of these mons, i didnt slash them on the sample sets bc i couldnt be bothered


Lugia's unmatched mixed bulk and great speed stat make it the premier wall of ADV BH. Lugia can perform a huge variety of defensive roles, and with the right set can tango with the scariest offensive threats that the metagame has to offer. On top of this, Lugia is also one of the fastest Pokemon in ADV BH, bolstering its support capabilities significantly.
Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb / Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Aeroblast
- Soft-Boiled


Skarmory is practically unbreakable on the physical side due to its amazing defense stat and a complete lack of physical weaknesses. Skarm is probably the best counter available for Groudon, Snorlax, and physical Rayquaza. Additionally, an immunity to both Spikes and Toxic make it quite difficult to wear down. However, its special bulk is quite bad, and so despite a great set of resistances it has a lot of trouble standing up to most special attackers.
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb / Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes / Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp / Aeroblast
- Whirlwind


Jirachi boasts a fantastic defensive typing, great mixed bulk, an important speed tier and solid offensive stats. With Levitate, it can take on most physical attackers, and with Flash Fire it beats most special attackers.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate / Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic


Registeel offers more bulk than Jirachi, but at the cost of Rachi's usable offense stats and a lot of speed. Thus, Registeel makes for a better answer to mons like Mewtwo and Latios, but is probably better suited for stallier teams that don't mind the momentum that it gives up.
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate / Flash Fire / Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Whirlwind


Celebi's crucial resistances to electric, water, ground, and psychic, combined with Thick Fat to cover its fire and ice weaknesses, allow it to comfortably take on Mewtwo, Groudon, Kyogre and the electrics. However, while it has good offensive stats, its STABs are very bad.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
- Giga Drain


Blissey is the ultimate special wall, but she is very passive and gets absolutely trashed by any physical attacker. Blissey is a crucial member of any ADV BH stall team, and all offense teams need to have a way to break her. Blissey's huge HP stat makes her a viable user of Transform, which she can use to take advantage of mons trying to set up on her.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate / Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Heal Bell / Seismic Toss
- Will-O-Wisp
- Baton Pass


Zapdos' niche defensive typing and decent all around bulk make it one of the best answers to Rayquaza, Groudon, and many Ho-oh sets.
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat / Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Spikes


Latias beats many of the tier's best special attackers thanks to a very good set of resistances, although it does rely somewhat on Thick Fat to protect it from very common ice type coverage.
Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat / Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
- Rapid Spin / Sacred Fire
- Toxic



Tyranitar is the best Mewtwo counter available, being immune to its STAB and not weak to any of its common coverage. With the right immunity ability, TTar can also take on Kyogre (Water Absorb), electrics (Volt Absorb), or Groudon/Rayquaza (Levitate).
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb / Volt Absorb / Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Pursuit
- Slack Off
- Rock Slide



Ho-oh's defensive typing is extremely awkward - it's immune to ground, but can't wall Groudon because it dies to Rock Slide, and it can't take full advantage of its special bulk because of its weaknesses to water and electric moves, which are carried by most common special attackers. Its best defensive sets run Volt Absorb, to take on electrics and some Mewtwo/Latios sets.
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Milk Drink
- Sacred Fire
- Aeroblast / Whirlwind
- Spikes / Heal Bell


Kyogre has great special bulk and an excellent defensive typing, letting it run some very potent defensive sets. Ironically, Kyogre is one of the best counters to itself if it runs Volt Absorb, which also lets it take on electrics and helps it against Mewtwo/Latios sets with Thunderbolt. It can also run Intimidate to take on Groudon, physical Ho-oh and some Rayquaza sets.
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb / Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Whirlwind


niche defensive threats:


Other Threats

As the fastest Pokemon in the metagame, Deoxys-S performs a variety of support roles, particularly in the lead slot with Spore. Deo-S is a great Spikes lead and an effective Baton Passer, making it an important part of the lead metagame.
Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost / Insomnia
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Spore
- Tail Glow / Spikes

GUIDE TO ABILITIES
One of the features that really sets ADV BH apart from other iterations of BH is the lack of powerful abilities. Almost all of the powerful abilities that define later generations of BH -- Imposter, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Adaptability etc. -- are completely absent here. This isn't to say that abilities are worthless, but most are not nearly as splashy as abilities found in later generations.

The main effect of this is that there is a lot less opportunity cost to running niche or situational abilities. Running an ability like Water Absorb just to check Kyogre would be pretty questionable if options like Poison Heal or Magic Bounce were available, but when the best alternatives are abilities like Intimidate and Natural Cure, it's far more reasonable.

OFFENSIVE ABILITIES

Speed Boost
- Speed Boost is strong on almost any offensive mon, especially those with set up moves like Tail Glow or Swords Dance.
Hustle - Hustle offers a substantial power boost and makes mons like Choice Band Rayquaza practically unwallable, but the cost of reduced accuracy is a real one. A high risk, high reward ability.
Guts - Flame Orb and Toxic Orb don't exist in Gen III, so there's no reliable way to status yourself to turn on Guts. However, Will-o-Wisp and Toxic are common enough that it is easy to get your Guts mon statused by just switching it into a status move. Groudon, Rayquaza, and Snorlax all often run Guts, so its a good idea to not just mindlessly click Wisp against these mons until you've figured out their ability.
Magnet Pull - Magnet Pull is excellent at picking apart defensive cores and making holes for mons like Mewtwo and Snorlax which often struggle against steels. However, the prevalence of immunity abilities means that there is no single Magnet Puller that can trap every viable steel.

WEATHER ABILITIES

Drizzle / Swift Swim
- Rain is the most powerful of the three weathers because it has the best abuser in Kyogre. Kyogre is excellent as both a rain setter and Swift Swimmer, but there are plenty of other good rain abusers, like Latios, Zapdos, and Rayquaza.
Rain Dish - Rain Dish provides an absurd amount of longevity under rain, making it an excellent choice on more defensively oriented rain teams.
Drought / Chlorophyll - There aren't as many good sun abusers as there are good rain abusers, but Sun is still a powerful playstyle. Ho-oh is a great choice on Sun as basically the only good fire type in the metagame, and mons like Latios, Rayquaza, and Groudon all benefit a lot from Chlorophyll.
Sand Stream - Sand Stream doesn't boost the special defense of rock types and there are no abilities that synergise with it (besides Sand Veil, but dont use that). Sand is thus difficult to build a team around, but it is still good for shutting down opposing weather teams and the chip damage can help to wear down some mons.

TYPE IMMUNITY/RESISTANCE ABILITIES

Water Absorb
- Water Absorb is run just to beat Kyogre / rain teams. It's best on mons that aren't weak to Kyogre's common ice/electric coverage, like Raikou, Jirachi, or Tyranitar.
Flash Fire - Mons like Mewtwo and Latios often run fire coverage to hit steels, and Flash Fire is a great option to help wall those.
Volt Absorb - Many prominent special attackers rely heavily on electric coverage to hit certain defensive mons, so Volt Absorb is a good choice to help wall those mons. Additionally, it almost completely shuts down Zapdos and Raikou. Kyogre, Lugia, Skarmory, and Ho-oh all commonly run Volt Absorb.
Levitate - Levitate is great on any rock, steel, or electric type (except Skarm and Zapdos for obvious reasons). Levitate can turn any mon into a Groudon counter, and is also very good against Rayquaza which often relies on Earthquake to hit flying resists.
Thick Fat - Thick Fat is somewhat niche, but it's viable on certain defensive mons that want to protect themselves from ice coverage, particularly Celebi, Latias, and Groudon.

STATUS BLOCKING ABILITIES

Insomnia / Vital Spirit
- Insomnia and Vital Spirit are staples of the format. I would recommend having one on every team -- Spore is very common, and having a mon that can switch into it without fear is invaluable.
Natural Cure - Natural Cure is an excellent ability on a wide variety of mons -- it provides your team with a good status sponge, makes walls difficult to wear down with Toxic, and offensive mons with nothing better to do can run it to heal themselves of an otherwise crippling burn or paralysis.
Immunity - Immunity is at its best on bulky set-up sweepers like Calm Mind Kyogre, as many defensive teams rely on Toxic to beat these mons.

MISCELLANEOUS ABILITIES
Intimidate
- Intimidate is usually run on defensive Pokemon to help soften the blows from mons like Groudon and Snorlax.
Suction Cups - Suction Cups is a fairly niche choice, but it's good on some stallbreaking set up mons like Sub + CM Kyogre, as stall teams often rely on phazing moves to deal with these mons.


GUIDE TO ITEMS
ADV BH has three (3) viable items.

Leftovers
The item of choice for most sets. Leftovers goes on pretty much anything and it’s always good. Every defensive Pokemon should run this, and most offensive mons should strongly consider it. If you aren’t sure what item to put on your mon, Leftovers is always a good choice. Think of it as the default item: only run other stuff if you have good reason to.

Lum Berry
Lum is a great option on offensive sets to help play around all of the status moves flying around. It’s especially a good choice on lead sets (to dodge Spore) and on physical set-up sweepers like Dragon Dance Groudon (to dodge Will-o-Wisp).

Choice Band
Band is the only choice item available in this generation, and the only viable damage-boosting item in the meta. Almost any decent physical attacker can run Band to become a very effective wallbreaker, particularly Groudon and Rayquaza. As well, tricking Choice Bands is one of the best ways to break through stall.

Other stuff
Stat boosting berries (Liechi, Petaya, Salac): These are a bit worse than they are in standard ADV tiers considering that every Pokemon gets far better options for setting up, but I figured they’re at least worth a mention. I’ve never been able to make them work, but maybe you can!

Sitrus Berry only recovers 30 HP in this gen. Just use Leftovers instead.

The items that give a boost to a specific type of move only give a 1.1x boost in this gen, which is pretty negligible.

SAMPLE TEAMS
Rain

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Milk Drink

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Groudon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Megahorn

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Aeroblast

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Surf

Explosion Snorlax

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Recover
- Aeroblast
- Whirlwind

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Explosion
- Superpower

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aeroblast
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

Latios + Magnet Pull

Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Trick
- Megahorn

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Taunt

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Thunderbolt

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Recover


If I've missed something here please let me know!
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#21
Announcement:

After further playtesting with the esteemed champ himself MAMP, we concluded that the Aldaron's Proposal will be enforced upon Gen IV BH. Basically insinuating that one can no longer place a weather ability + a speed boosting weather ability (ie: Drizzle + Swift Swim or Drought + Chlorophyll) on the same team. This was mainly due to the fact that weather wars had been extremely prominent and games basically boil down to who could keep their own respective weather up longer (or if its the same weather, who's speed control won the speed tie), creating an environment that heavily restricted teambuilding.

Replay of this in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4customgame-612448464

We will also be reviewing a potential sleep clause after further testing of this new change. Stay tuned for the announcement (and for future potential fun event!)
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#22
Announcement:

After some deliberation with the majority of past Gen V BH players, we have finally agreed upon implementing a Sleep Clause in the metagame before the BH Snake Draft begins. This was mainly due to it being incredibly difficult to stop certain tactics such as Mold Breaker + Spore due to the different sleep mechanics within the generation in addition to the lack of Grass-type immunity and items such as Safety Goggles.

This is a change that will definitely shake up the BW BH meta, but is one that felt necessary by a majority of players.
 
#24
Can we please normalize Old Gens 1v1. Gen 7 and Gen 6 are played as bring 3 pick 1 as well as Focus Sash being banned. Gen 5 was played as bring just 1 and Focus Sash was never banned, (despite it being listed as such under the banlist). And I have no idea how Gen 3 1v1 was played, but I have a feeling it was like Gen 5.
 
#25
Speaking of shaking up the gen 5 bh meta, since the pokestar studio mons are implemented on showdown and were apparently hackable onto teams on cart back in gen 5, should they be allowed in gen 5 bh on showdown?
Just to add on to this (and bump up this thread), here's someone who codes saying that they were in fact hackable onto teams in game
[16:31] jasp(=^-^=)baking: wait mac, pokestar studio mons are hackable onto in game teams in gen 5, right?
[16:31] @ MacChaeger.: Yes
 

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