Old Mon BST/Ability Change Discussion

[zferolie]

For what it's worth, Return averages out to be stronger than Slash.
If only it could get Sniper...

But slash would ignore defense's right? wouldn;t that make it stronger, or still the same?

So I guess having a 50% chance to crit with return may be better instead of the 100% chance with slash?

And yes if the duck got sniper this would be amazing. Maybe a way to pass sniper to the duck with a move? Anyone with sniper also gets skill swap?

 

[Hytheter]

But slash would ignore defense's right? wouldn;t that make it stronger, or still the same?

It'd be stronger if they boost their defense or lower your attack. It's also more reliable. So I guess there are advantages to both.

 

[zferolie]

It'd be stronger if they boost their defense or lower your attack. It's also more reliable. So I guess there are advantages to both.

Does increase defenses include Reflect? With Aurora Veil coming out it may be a good option as well.

And with 100% crit rate you don't need to worry about intimidates then I guess

I did see no pokemon gets both sniper and Skill swap, But Remorid/Octillary gets Entrainment. You can give Farfetch'd Sniper that way. Wonder if there is any way to make that work on a team, or if thats too risky

 

[Hytheter]

And with 100% crit rate you don't need to worry about intimidates then I guess

Actually, I just realised that with Defiant you already don't need to worry about that. On the contrary, Intimidate helps you.

 

[jackgraves]

On the topic of Farfetched, I'd actually recommend Quick Attack over Return/Slash, since it's Speed went untouched.

 

[zferolie]

Actually, I just realised that with Defiant you already don't need to worry about that. On the contrary, Intimidate helps you.

Right. I forgot about that derp

On the topic of Farfetched, I'd actually recommend Quick Attack over Return/Slash, since it's Speed went untouched.

You do loose power but you gain a priority move with 50% crit rate. not a bad trade off.

 

[Hytheter]

On the topic of Farfetched, I'd actually recommend Quick Attack over Return/Slash, since it's Speed went untouched.

If we're running Quick Attack I'd run it in addition to Slash/Return. It's nowhere near powerful enough for a primary STAB.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm excited for Masquerain. She may be a poor man's Volcarona, but she has access to Ice Beam and Blizzard to protect against Flying types, and Scald and Hydro Pump to protect herself from Fire and Rock types.

 

[jackgraves]

If we're running Quick Attack I'd run it in addition to Slash/Return. It's nowhere near powerful enough for a primary STAB.

Brave Bird is your primary STAB, backed by Leaf Blade/Night Slash, depending on your needs.

 

[Flare Blitzle]

Is there any truth to the rumour that Crobat got Merciless? I keep seeing it mentioned but no actual confirmation or denial.

And I see they are still refusing to give Lunatone and Solrock Moonlight and Morning Sun as level-up moves for them. :/

 

[Hytheter]

Is there any truth to the rumour that Crobat got Merciless?

Not according to the information we've got

 

[zferolie]

Brave Bird is your primary STAB, backed by Leaf Blade/Night Slash, depending on your needs.

I was thinking both, but if you also have brave bird you loose roost. Is it bad to have both leaf blade and night slash?

Not according to the information we've got

Yeah I haven't seen it either. Would have been cool, though i can see that ability being too strong one a pokemon with high attacking stats

 

[jackgraves]

I was thinking both, but if you also have brave bird you loose roost. Is it bad to have both leaf blade and night slash?

Not at all, coverage wise, but Farfy needs Swords Dance for set-up or Roost for recovery if it really want to leave 'em weak with its leek.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

Mantine getting reliable recovery and +20 to its base HP means that it's probably an OU viable Defogger. Also, it walls the living hell out of almost all Keldeo and Mega Charizard Y, as well as checking any non-electric special attacker with ease (seriously Timid Zard-Y Fire Blast in the Sun isn't even a guaranteed 3HKO after rocks).

Modest Zard Y doesn't even guarantee the 3HKO after rocks when factoring in Leftovers. Also Mantine gets Water Absorb which is always a neat ability to block Scald spam. It also has cool moves like Haze and Mirror Coat. Mantine is pretty hype all of a sudden.

 

[PK Gaming]

The ability changes are pretty great. The legendary beasts getting their (unreleased) HA nerfed is a little disappointing, but not too big of a deal. Meanwhile, several Pokemon have a new lease on life due to their new awesome weather changing abilities. I personally can't wait to mess around with Gigalith.

I'm more mixed on the stat boosts though. They're not as big as XY's, and a couple of them feel pointless. Some of them are genuinely great though, and should make a big difference, but I feel like if they've opened themselves to the idea of buffing Pokemon, it should affect more Pokemon. Also Dugtrio getting +20 Attack?

Fuuuuuuuuuuck that yo.

 

[zferolie]

Not at all, coverage wise, but Farfy needs Swords Dance for set-up or Roost for recovery if it really want to leave 'em weak with its leek.

Makes sense. so you either need to sacrifce coverage, or a powerful stab, if you want brave bird on... I must say a crit from brave bird would hurt a heck of a lot

 

[Hytheter]

I'm more mixed on the stat boosts though. They're not as big as XY's

What? XY didn't boost any stats by more than 10 and only one Pokemon got more than one boost. Some of these boosts are huge in comparison.

 

[jackgraves]

What? XY didn't boost any stats by more than 10 and only one Pokemon got more than one boost. Some of these boosts are huge in comparison.

Exactly. Only Pikachu got anything more than a +10 buff in Gen 6. To be fair, fewer Mons got buffed this time, but the buffs were typically more significant.

 

[HC]

Buffs from XY might be referring to Mega Evolutions? They were fairly big buffs

 

[PK Gaming]

What? XY didn't boost any stats by more than 10 and only one Pokemon got more than one boost. Some of these boosts are huge in comparison.

Poor choice of words on my part. Basically, I feel like the BST buffs to Pokemon in XY had more of an impact, though I'm probably not giving Gen VII enough credit. The Dugtrio, Mantine, Swellow, Beartic, Dodrio and Eggy changes are absolutely going to matter.

 

[MegaFlareon]

I'm just so glad that Dodrio isn't walked by Steels anymore. With Normal/Fighting/Flying move set, you basically have unresisted coverage.

+20 Attack on Dugtrio means that it doesn't need Choice Band anymore.

After years and years of being overshadowed, Mantine can belong to that same tier as Skarmory! Yay!

 

[NinetyNineNo]

The ability changes are pretty great. The legendary beasts getting their (unreleased) HA nerfed is a little disappointing, but not too big of a deal. Meanwhile, several Pokemon have a new lease on life due to their new awesome weather changing abilities. I personally can't wait to mess around with Gigalith.

I'm more mixed on the stat boosts though. They're not as big as XY's, and a couple of them feel pointless. Some of them are genuinely great though, and should make a big difference, but I feel like if they've opened themselves to the idea of buffing Pokemon, it should affect more Pokemon. Also Dugtrio getting +20 Attack?

Fuuuuuuuuuuck that yo.

Best pray MSab gets the boot else this pair is gonna be even more obnoxious

 

[TheTraininator]

I've heard a rumor that Mega Alakazam also received a 10 BST boost to correct the mistake made in Gen 6, but it does not appear to be on this list. Was that a lie, or was it just overlooked due to being a Mega?

 

[HC]

Overlooked I guess. I believe its Special Defense went up by 10 iirc

 

[AJC]

yes it did it's now 105 now instead of 95.