Old Mon BST/Ability Change Discussion

* Exeggutor: very useful +10 boost into it SpD, because now it Harvest + Sitrus Berry is more effective. Sadly, OU is still far from reality.

* Dugtrio: +20 into its Atk majes this thing scarier than ever. I don't want that this buff makes it ban worthy (Shadow Tag is a nightmare).

252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 250-296 (103.7 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

* Mantine: +20 into HP + Roost mean that this thing is another OU monster for stall. It is similar to one theorymon made in the past, but with a useful HP boost is a serious wall. You can even use it as a Defogger, even though it is weak to Rocks.
 
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We'll probably see more Keldeo sets running HP Electric due to Mantine's newfound buffs, and even then it doesn't OHKO after rocks, making it really easy to play around when you have a Ground type on your team as well:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Mantine: 232-276 (62.1 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (accounting for the new HP buff)

Swellow's buffs are monstrous, and I believe people are underestimating how scary this is for the lower tiers. Specs Swellow was ALREADY a menace in NU, as pretty much all of its checks don't have reliable recovery and can easily be worn down with repeated switchins to Boomburst + hazards.

(Base 50) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Regirock: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 74.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Base 75) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Regirock: 112-132 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- 62.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Base 50) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 113-133 (32.1 - 37.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Base 50) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Heat Wave vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 206-244 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Base 75) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 141-167 (40 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Base 75) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Heat Wave vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 258-304 (73.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Base 50) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 80-95 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock

(Base 50) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 184-220 (44.4 - 53.1%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(Base 75) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 101-119 (24.3 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

(Base 75) 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 232-276 (56 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The point is, base 75 SpA Swellow's min rolls are doing more than base 50 SpA Swellow's max rolls, which is nuts. I can see this not going down to NU, or not staying there for very long.

To top it all off, it gets Hurricane now, so it can use this as a means of spreading confusion.
 
Vengeance417 said:
We'll probably see more Keldeo sets running HP Electric due to Mantine's newfound buffs, and even then it doesn't OHKO after rocks, making it really easy to play around when you have a Ground type on your team as well:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Mantine: 232-276 (62.1 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (accounting for the new HP buff)
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Alright, I quite underestimated Mantine's bulk. Maybe because Skarmory happens to lack a double weakness...
 
Some things from the text dump:

Multitype description: "Changes the Pokémon’s type to match the Plate or Z-Crystal it holds."

Looks like Arceus will always get STAB on its Z-Moves. Probably inferior to Plates without planning on using the z-move though. Wonder how this works with the Pokemon specific Z-Crystals (Mew, Marshadow, Starters, etc)

Weak Armor Description: Physical attacks to the Pokémon lower its Defense stat but sharply raise its Speed stat.

Looks like Weak Armor gives +2 Speed now, eh? Fossils might like this.

Neither of these are confirmed until tested, but there's some interesting stuff here.
 
Torkoal getting Drought is something nice to have in OU.
It is a SR setter + a spinner neutral to Rocks + a Sun setter (not weak to Water anymore) + WoW support towards opposite Grounds switch-ins all in one teamslot. Role compression is a thing.
 
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nameless90 said:
Torkoal getting Drought is something nice to have in OU.
It is a SR setter + a spinner neutral to Rocks + a Sun setter (not weak 4x to Water) + WoW support towards opposite Grounds switch-ins all in one teamslot.
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It's still mono-Fire type, but I pretty much agree with what you're saying.

Speaking of weather-setting, I think everyone's overlooking one of Pelipper's greatest strengths as a Drizzle user.

Yes, it gets a nice SpA buff to abuse Scald/Hurricane, yes it gets Roost, yes it gets Defog.

However, the kicker for Pelipper is U-Turn.

Pelipper can come in and set the rain up, and when the opponent seems like it will switch in to its electric type, you can U-Turn out to an appropriate answer. No other auto-weather setter has Volt Switch/U-Turn besides Pelipper, and that's huge.

Pelipper also has access to Tailwind, which can be a nice countermeasure to opposing weather in Doubles to still provide speed control without having to immediately switch out, as well as Wide Guard for spread moves such as Blizzard and Heat Wave. Having U-Turn will also be nice to be able to switch out vs Shadow Tag users like Goth and Mega Gengar.
 
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Fireburn said:
Some things from the text dump:

Multitype description: "Changes the Pokémon’s type to match the Plate or Z-Crystal it holds."

Looks like Arceus will always get STAB on its Z-Moves. Probably inferior to Plates without planning on using the z-move though. Wonder how this works with the Pokemon specific Z-Crystals (Mew, Marshadow, Starters, etc)

Weak Armor Description: Physical attacks to the Pokémon lower its Defense stat but sharply raise its Speed stat.

Looks like Weak Armor gives +2 Speed now, eh? Fossils might like this.

Neither of these are confirmed until tested, but there's some interesting stuff here.
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As a person who swept teams in Monotype with a Shell Smash Weak Armor Magcargo, I will GREATLY apreciate a Sharply increase boost to speed.
 
oh man i didnt see delcatty before i cant wait to see what it go--
+20 speed

i mean, ok, it needed a lot more to make it really useful but give a 10er to an attacking stat or something
 
Pippleo said:
Anyone is goin' to use Cryogonal as a spinner now that is buffed? xd
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Since we have five new spinners/defoggers without a Stealth Rock weakness (Decidueye, Tsareena, Komala, Dhelmise, Tapu Fini) probably nobody :P


All the Pokémon’s moves become Normal type. The power of those moves is boosted a little.
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Um, did Delcatty´s Normalize always have this boost effect?
 
Durengardnit said:
Since we have five new spinners/defoggers without a Stealth Rock weakness (Decidueye, Tsareena, Komala, Dhelmise, Tapu Fini) probably nobody :P



Um, did Delcatty´s Normalize always have this boost effect?
Click to expand...

I don't think Normalize ever used to boost the effect... I wonder how much of a boost it is
 
Durengardnit said:
Since we have five new spinners/defoggers without a Stealth Rock weakness (Decidueye, Tsareena, Komala, Dhelmise, Tapu Fini) probably nobody :P



Um, did Delcatty´s Normalize always have this boost effect?
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no and it was super dome
its about time
 
Even with the power boost, would normalize be good? Having no coverage on a pokemon seems risky. It may allow it to Paralize more pokemon with t-wave, or maybe have its Play rough be stronger then a return now... i just am not sure how to run a Normalize set.
 
Fell Stinger is now 50BP, and based on the description it gives +3 attack instead of +2. Might be worthwhile on Genesect, M-Beedrill or Swift Swim Qwilfish.
 
"boosted a little"? I guess it's 30% like the -ates.

... still worthless as it has the nasty side effect of having horrible coverage.
 
Happy to see Gigalith finally get something to differentiate itself from (Kanto) Golem. Always liked it.

Don't think it'll move up more than a tier or two since it still has several limitations but now it might actually see some use.
 
Gigalith is probably the best weather setter for an all out offensive team:

Gigalith @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gravity
- Stone Edge
- Explosion

Set Stealth Rock, Gravity and then explode to bring Sand Rush Excadrill in for free. Thanks to Gravity Excadrill can spam Earthquake even against Levitators, Air Balloon users and Flying types (e.g. Skarmory).
 
Snow Warning Vanilluxe means it finally has a meaningful ability, and it has the honor of having the strongest auto-100% accurate Blizzard (second strongest without a boosting item).

And it's good to see the unofficial mascots of Sun and Moon get some recognition, although Morning Sun and Moonlight are still missing from their level-up movepools.
 
Pelipper pairs excellently with Mega Swampert since swampert eats electric type attacks and can stomach rock type coverage, and together they could also be a hazard core with defog and stealth rocks. Its a very compact package of 2 good offensive pokemon, defensive utility, hazard control, weather setter and sweeper. Im excited to see where they go with it.
 
Pipotchi said:
Pelipper pairs excellently with Mega Swampert since swampert eats electric type attacks and can stomach rock type coverage, and together they could also be a hazard core with defog and stealth rocks. Its a very compact package of 2 good offensive pokemon, defensive utility, hazard control, weather setter and sweeper. Im excited to see where they go with it.
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In addition, Pelipper can blow past the Grass-types Swampert hates with Hurricane. Good call.

EDIT: In that capacity, 44 SpA guarantees the 2HKO on defensive MegaSaur without rocks (because Defog).
 
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The most notable changes here are dugtrio and mantine.

Dugtrio has always been relevant in ou - though not in the actual tier in recent times - as it provides sheer, unmatchable utility in removing specific threats to a specific team build. It could do this all with 80 attack. With +20 attack, Dugtrio is going to be a legitamently stronger threat that is more capable at dealing with its designated targets. Not only that, but slightly weakened offensive mons can be trapped and removed with ease with +20 in attack. Look out for dugtrio.

Mantine has been ridiculously buffed, and I think we are gonna see this mon in ou, and it will at the very least be in uu.

A set of:

Roost / scald / mirror coat / filler

Is all it needs to establish itself in unique and prominent niche of its own. That +20 in hp just makes it even better.
 
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