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Old Mon BST/Ability Change Discussion
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Oh thank god, good to know.
pyu is saved <3
somebody should test sticky hold to see if it finally reduces knock off damage like it should
Member Choice Scarf Abomasnow that dominates Gen5 Doubles?
Now we have a scarfed Ice Cream that's faster, colder, fewer weaknesses and Freeze-Dry.
Now we have a scarfed Ice Cream that's faster, colder, fewer weaknesses and Freeze-Dry.
Can u spam flatter as well? Just to make sure
Hey guys, remember when stall was dead in DP, then in BW, then in XY again? All of those were the good times!
Don't worry, stall is fine.
edit: my mistake
I did both to make sure, I just said swagger in the thread since it's a more notorious move.
If we're going for consistency, Gengar should have gotten either two abilities, or a new gimmicky one. One-ability mons either have Levitate (except for Zong but he has a gimmick with Levitate/Heatproof), have exclusive/gimmicky abilities (Ferrothorn, Regigigas), or are eventmons (Victini, Mew).
Yeah, it really bugs me. I've wanted for years for Gengar (and other Levitators) to get additional abilities (Hidden if nothing else) just for variety's sake. Never hurts to have additional options, you know? But here they've just gotten rid of Levitate altogether and still giving him no options.
They couldve given Gengar a lot of more useful things than freaking Cursed Body if they were just going for consistency. Cursed Body for Levitate is a straight nerf and they know it and they cant talk about consistency when they have dex entries for Vika and Dicidueye praising their speed.
Actually this time it was sadly right, z moves that bypass protect, no way of stopping DD users above 80 speed without a scarfer after twave nerf where big red herrings, unaware being gone was the absolute death of stall.
Gen 5 gave us stall staples, gen 6 pushed the envelope and gen 7 is really pushing the offensive dominance thanks to some egregious wallbreaker choices and z moves as outside of 7 Pokémon in singles stall got nothing and lost one of its best anti fairy tools.
Really dude, stall is hanging by the skin of its teeth.
Infiltrator would be both useful and thematically appropriate.
Prankster the same, but maybe too useful.
Frisk seems common-ish among Ghosts and is certainly better than Cursed Body.
Hell, even Mummy is at least guaranteed to work, and when you're not likely to survive more than one hit that's better than nothing.
That's just abilities that other Ghost-types have, but I'm sure there are other options out there too.
edit: looking through the list, I think I could justify Intimidate, Technician, Insomnia and Limber too. Well, Shadow Tag as well, but let's not go there haha.
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truant text is a bit different, but could help slaking
New Text
"The Pokémon can’t use a move the following turn if it uses one."
Old Text
"The Pokémon cannot use a move in the turn following one where it used a move, even if that move failed."
thoughts?
New text for OVERGROW and other variants now read "power's up ____-type move when the pokemon's HP is low" as opposed to the old text of "in a pinch"
earlier activation maybe?
I feel like someone already mentioned the buff in normalize. ( boosts power a little) but yeah buff in normalize. similar to -ate but it sounds like -ate abilities may have been nerfed a little since the official text says "little" as opposed to 30%
MOXIE may activate for fainting even your partner pokemon, seems new
"The Pokémon shows moxie, and that boosts the Attack stat after knocking out any Pokémon."
well thats what i could find. so let me know how you interpret truant :)
New Text
"The Pokémon can’t use a move the following turn if it uses one."
Old Text
"The Pokémon cannot use a move in the turn following one where it used a move, even if that move failed."
thoughts?
New text for OVERGROW and other variants now read "power's up ____-type move when the pokemon's HP is low" as opposed to the old text of "in a pinch"
earlier activation maybe?
I feel like someone already mentioned the buff in normalize. ( boosts power a little) but yeah buff in normalize. similar to -ate but it sounds like -ate abilities may have been nerfed a little since the official text says "little" as opposed to 30%
MOXIE may activate for fainting even your partner pokemon, seems new
"The Pokémon shows moxie, and that boosts the Attack stat after knocking out any Pokémon."
well thats what i could find. so let me know how you interpret truant :)
It seems pretty straight forward?
You can't move the following turn, even if the move was neutralized or failed for some reason.
well the new text doesnt say anything about failure.
example time:
On the turn Slaking is able to move, suddenly your opponent uses fake out. and bam you lose this turn, you get truant . and finally its your turn again. this is the old way
the possible new way, a i interpret it
On the turn Slaking is able to move, suddenly your opponent uses fake out.. and bam you lose this turn, you DONT get truant and get to a make a move.
same deal when if you waste your turn attacking protect, because new text doesn't include anything about failure.
oh i get it now, i didnt pay enough attention to the old/new labels (this has been a problem for me for hte past 3 days its awful)
Decidueye's entry doesn't say that Decidueye itself is fast. It says that it can shoot arrows very quickly like any archer. Archers are normally stationary. At least it's the fastest starter.
So you don't think being able to attack quickly should allow you to attack quickly AKA what the speed stat does?
I assume it shoots its arrows very quickly but it's not physically quick. And it's an owl. Owls aren't naturally fast
Archers were never fast. Outside of mounted archers.
It's just a JRPG damage calculation thing, they wanted them to be different from Mages and Melee clases so they made them agility focused for the most part, most old JRPG also calculate crit around speed+luck bonuses.
In the West dexterity doesn't matter unless you want certain subskils and archers can be glass cannons with 6 stamina and - 2 HP rolls at lv 40 but still reach devastating critical at 25 strength.
In reality archers where mostly a tactical unit, the British are famous for this, the Mayan too in contrast to Aztecs who are pretty much throwing spear(Two stage spear throwing) and Sword specialist(Beheading a horse and tearing up the armor of the rider on a single swing being documented several times) and Japan/China/Mongolia which have a a rich history of archery and mounted archery in the case of the Mongolian and Hun, the only instance of recorded hit and run warfare that succeeded.
It's just a JRPG damage calculation thing, they wanted them to be different from Mages and Melee clases so they made them agility focused for the most part, most old JRPG also calculate crit around speed+luck bonuses.
In the West dexterity doesn't matter unless you want certain subskils and archers can be glass cannons with 6 stamina and - 2 HP rolls at lv 40 but still reach devastating critical at 25 strength.
In reality archers where mostly a tactical unit, the British are famous for this, the Mayan too in contrast to Aztecs who are pretty much throwing spear(Two stage spear throwing) and Sword specialist(Beheading a horse and tearing up the armor of the rider on a single swing being documented several times) and Japan/China/Mongolia which have a a rich history of archery and mounted archery in the case of the Mongolian and Hun, the only instance of recorded hit and run warfare that succeeded.
My Thoughts:
Arbok: Attack boost is irrelevant, still a trash mon.
Dugtrio: Nice buff, now Duggy can hit harder with Choice Band while trapping.
Farfetch'd: Good for people who like the duck, still a trash mon.
Dodrio: Pretty nice speed boost, especially With SD and Jump Kick in it's new arsenal, Dodrio can be a threatening sweeper in RU/UU.
Electrode: LOL did electrode needed more speed? Speed boost mostly irrelevant since Electrode is mostly trash and unlikely to be speed tieing with Mega Alakazam and friends.
Exeggutor: Very situational. 75 Sp.Def is not good by any stretch.
Noctowl: Same as Arbok, not relevant. Moonblast is a cool addition though.
Ariados: Hardly a buff, trash mon is still trash. 10 more attack would have been better.
Qwilfish: Now a bit more tankier with intimidate. Though it faces new competition with Toxadox.
Magcargo: Irrelevant buffs. Still garbage stats and atrocious defensive typing.
Corsola: A bit better, still has poor stats and remains outclassed by most water mons.
Mantine: 20 HP is nice and new access to Roost will make Mantine viable in the higher tiers.
Swellow: Special Atk buff + Hurricane adds unpredictability.
Pelipper: Without Drizzle, I would have called the buff meh. The added Sp Atk makes rain boosted Scalds and Hurricanes more powerful.
Masquerain: Still a bad mon with garbage typing. Though Quiver Dancing is better.
Delcatty: 20 base speed does little to make Delcatty remotely decent, next.
Volbeat: Prankster shenanigans a bit more viable due to added bulk.
Illumise: **Insert Volbeat description here**
Lunatone: Still underwhelming even with extra bulk.
Solrock: **Insert Lunatone description here**
Chimecho: Still outclassed by a slew of Psychic types.
Woobat: Still a wet piece of bag taking hits.
Crustle: Shell Smash more viable
Beartic: Nice attack buff to go along it's newly given ability.
Cryogonal: Nice, now it doesn't flat out die to any physical priority move sans Ice Shard.
Meanwhile I'm still butthurt with Gengar losing levitate. It's stupid no matter how you slice it. Cursed Body is mediocre being completely luck reliant. I'm sure GF doesn't want more mind games with Mega evolving it.
Arbok: Attack boost is irrelevant, still a trash mon.
Dugtrio: Nice buff, now Duggy can hit harder with Choice Band while trapping.
Farfetch'd: Good for people who like the duck, still a trash mon.
Dodrio: Pretty nice speed boost, especially With SD and Jump Kick in it's new arsenal, Dodrio can be a threatening sweeper in RU/UU.
Electrode: LOL did electrode needed more speed? Speed boost mostly irrelevant since Electrode is mostly trash and unlikely to be speed tieing with Mega Alakazam and friends.
Exeggutor: Very situational. 75 Sp.Def is not good by any stretch.
Noctowl: Same as Arbok, not relevant. Moonblast is a cool addition though.
Ariados: Hardly a buff, trash mon is still trash. 10 more attack would have been better.
Qwilfish: Now a bit more tankier with intimidate. Though it faces new competition with Toxadox.
Magcargo: Irrelevant buffs. Still garbage stats and atrocious defensive typing.
Corsola: A bit better, still has poor stats and remains outclassed by most water mons.
Mantine: 20 HP is nice and new access to Roost will make Mantine viable in the higher tiers.
Swellow: Special Atk buff + Hurricane adds unpredictability.
Pelipper: Without Drizzle, I would have called the buff meh. The added Sp Atk makes rain boosted Scalds and Hurricanes more powerful.
Masquerain: Still a bad mon with garbage typing. Though Quiver Dancing is better.
Delcatty: 20 base speed does little to make Delcatty remotely decent, next.
Volbeat: Prankster shenanigans a bit more viable due to added bulk.
Illumise: **Insert Volbeat description here**
Lunatone: Still underwhelming even with extra bulk.
Solrock: **Insert Lunatone description here**
Chimecho: Still outclassed by a slew of Psychic types.
Woobat: Still a wet piece of bag taking hits.
Crustle: Shell Smash more viable
Beartic: Nice attack buff to go along it's newly given ability.
Cryogonal: Nice, now it doesn't flat out die to any physical priority move sans Ice Shard.
Meanwhile I'm still butthurt with Gengar losing levitate. It's stupid no matter how you slice it. Cursed Body is mediocre being completely luck reliant. I'm sure GF doesn't want more mind games with Mega evolving it.