Project OM Mashup Megathread

Tornadus-Therian (Magic Guard, No Guard, Primordial Sea
All absolutely crazy abilities to add on to Regenerator, but I do think one important ability is missing. I've seen it all the time on Torn T when the meta was OMotM, but Delta Stream. Same goes for Zapdos. Able to completely nullify all its weaknesses against any Mon that doesn't either have Neutralizing Gas or Primordial Sea/Desolate Land. Don't know if this will even be acknowledged, but thought I should mention it


is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hello everyone!
:ss/golbat: :ss/mr-mime-galar:
NFE Mix and Mega has (quick)banned (yes, banned for now) Golbat and restricted Mr. Mime-Galar!
Table of votes:

PlayersAggrometaileTrainerGoldAlt Shing'n Streets WMAR
Golbat :golbat:BanBanBanBan
Mr. Mime-Galar :mr-mime-galar:RestrictAbstainRestrictRestrict
:golbat:- 4-0 ban (100%)
:mr-mime-galar:- 3-1 restrict (75%)
:golbat: Golbat has proven itself to be one of the most centralizing mon (overcentralizing, even) of the tier. Even though it was not at all bad before, it became just amazing (and overwhelming) after the bans on Electabuzz, Piloswine and Magmar. It can run a plethora of viable sets, the best (worst) being Sablenite. Sablenite gives it tremendous bulk and Magic Bounce, which makes it incredibly difficult for teams to make progress (either by spreading status, or by setting up entry hazards). Brave Bird+Roost is all it needs to beat all the 'good' physical attackers of the tier, namely Raboot, Thwacky, Gurdurr, Machoke, Fraxure, Hakammo-o, Linoone-Galar, etc. Its 'checks' are basically limited to Magneton and Lairon (Gmime gone woo), which lose momentum if Golbat clicks U-turn. The 4th move choice lies between Defog and Super Fang, both of which provide great utility.
Lately, Manectite Nasty Plot sets have also popped up, and once set-up, Golbat can punch holes (aka sweep) through any team thanks to its phenomenal special coverage, Bulk and reliable recovery in Roost. At +2 SpA, it also beats its "checks", i.e, Magneton and Lairon, thanks to its coverage in Heat Wave. Teams without ways to revenge kill Golbat are easily overwhelmed (/swept) by this monster.
And guess what, it can also run a Gyaradosite set, which is an amazing way to lure Duosion (and even Gmime) and stallbreak. Mean Look+Toxic/Taunt+Roost is all it needs for the job, and the 4th move is generally Crunch (or Super Fang on Toxic sets).
All these traits have proven to be too much for the tier, warranting Golbat a ban.
TL;DR Plethora of Viable sets, bulk, recovery, amazing utility+0 consistent counterplay

:mr-mime-galar: Mr. Mime Galar is a dangerous sweeper and wallbreaker of the tier. Its main stone being Lucarionite provides it a dangerous 115 SpA and Adaptability, and its access to Nasty Plot and coverage options in Focus MissBlast, Shadow Ball and Freeze Dry just made situations worse. Its only defensive answer is Specially defensive Corsola-Galar, meaning teams without it will have to lose a mon every time Mr. Mime-Galar comes in. Additionally, Mr. Mime Galar grabs a 2HKO on Corsola-Galar with some chip. Alternatively, it can also run a Diancite set, which gives it a better Speed tier and limits its already limited offensive "counterplay". Its main "checks" include priority users like Raboot and Thwacky, the latter of which dies if it loses Grassy Terrain, and faster Diancite mons, namely Drakloak and Kadabra. The council has decided to restrict Mr. Mime-Galar due to its absurd power and restrictions it places on teambuilding.

That's it for now, expect a sample teams update soon-ish; have a nice day!

CringeMeta urkerab for implementation, ty in advance :psyglad:
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TSAAA Announcement
Recently, Almost Any Ability banned Magic Bounce and Unburden due to their effect in the meta. This affects TSAAA because the tour code uses Almost Any Ability as the base format. However, these abilities' impact on TSAAA is not similar to that of AAA due to revolving around a different meta. As such, the council has decided that these abilities will remain unbanned. Here's the new tour code to account for these changes:
/tour new [Gen 8] Almost Any Ability, Elimination,,,[Gen 8] Tier Shift AAA
/tour rules Tier Shift Mod, -Tinted Lens, -Damp Rock, -Eviolite, -Heat Rock, -Light Ball, -Absol, -Arctovish, -Bellossom, -Guzzlord, -Marowak-Base, -Sneasel, -Talonflame, +Blacephalon, +Buzzwole, +Cinderace, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish, +Dragapult, +Dragonite, +Dialga, +Gengar, +Genesect, +Giratina, +Giratina-Origin, +Groudon, +Ho-Oh, +Kartana, +Keldeo, +Kyogre, +Kyurem, +Landorus, +Lugia, +Lunala, +Magearna, +Melmetal, +Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, +Noivern, +Palkia, +Reshiram, +Solgaleo, +Spectrier, +Urshifu-Base, +Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, +Victini, +Weavile, +Yveltal, +Zamazenta-Base, +Zamazenta-Crowned, +Zeraora, +Zygarde-Base, +Magic Bounce, +Unburden
/tour autostart 7
/tour autodq 4
/wall **SAMPLE TEAMS:**
Tagging CringeMeta to implement.
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concrete angel
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
The suspect test has concluded, and the results are as follows:
List of qualified voters: 11
Unrestrict: 6 (54.54%)
Keep restricted: 5 (45.45%)

Keldeo is now unrestricted from holding mega stones in STAB'n Mega! Thanks to all who voted.

Hi, I am a simple regular OM main but I have been playing a little SnM throughout TPP to support my bestie sasha and I just had a few questions about this suspect :3 I would have asked them sooner but I didn't even realize this was going on as I do not follow this tier actively :/

First, I would like to ask for what reasons Keldeo was suspected? Most tiers will give a paragraph both in support and not in support of banning a Pokemon as seen by other OM suspect tests as seen here here here here here. However, the STAB and Mega council has listed as the reasons for the suspect

Keldeo was initially banned due to its absurd power and wallbreaking ability, but the meta has experienced a lot of shifts lately and the council thinks it's safe to give it a chance to let it back into the tier.
My first reaction to this is...evidence? What meta shifts has the tier experienced lately that would lead to Keldeo being something that the council believes should be unbanned? I would argue at the moment that (from my experience) the power level in SnM is already VERY high. Adding more threats to the pool of Pokemon that currently have to be covered (i.e. all the broken Ground-types) is pretty ridiculous. Not only that, but it isn't like people are currently packing Keldeo checks naturally in the teambuilder. As others in the Mashups Discord have said, Toxapex is basically the only counter that is currently viable, along with Eternatus (eh). People now will have to add Keldeo counters to their team in order to beat it.

Retests are usually done when a Pokemon that is previously banned is viewed as having more natural counters in the builder than it previously had when banned. Example: UU unbanned Latias last year, and this was part of their reasoning. I am not say this was a good or bad unban, but rather I want to look at the reasonings they gave and compare them to what the SnM council gave.

Well, here's the thing - it was banned a very long time ago in a very different metagame, and back then we didn't have much by way of defensive presences that could handle it; Pokemon like Primarina and Celesteela were kept down by the ever-looming presence of Zeraora, Aegislash was still banned, and we didn't have the new additions of Excadrill, Hydreigon, and Mandibuzz to help in the fight against it. The most common method of dealing with Latias was using Slowking to switch into it and then Teleporting into an offensive check like Zeraora or Choice Scarf Krookodile. Nowadays we've got more; Primarina, Aegislash, Celesteela, Jirachi, Galarian Moltres and Zarude are all stable parts of the metagame, and revenge killers like Krookodile, Choice Scarf Mienshao, Lycanroc-D, Azelf, Zygarde-10%, and Mamoswine are doing better than they used to. We also got the aforementioned three newcomers in Excadrill, Hydreigon, and Mandibuzz which can check it offensively or defensively, and Slowking is an ever-helpful pivot that can hopefully ensure Latias is kept at bay.
AggrimmortalToday at 8:52 AM
come on
are we
forgetting fini????
amph clef
theres a reason it is called "test"...and we r in gyarados meta now anyway
...clef may be mid
not fini though, no
it's slow, easily revenged, and has switchins
What I am reading here seems to basically be, "yeah there's like two checks that are solid (pex and fini) and a couple soft-checks that are fake and then like, you can revenge with ate-speed.” Which may be fair if the meta was more centralized around offensive waters and people were already using these defensive Pokemon often, but they arent. I went through the SnM games played so far in TPP to count the amount of times Toxapex, Eternatus, Tapu Fini, and Clefable (lol) were used. I came up with

Tapu Fini: 1
Clefable: 0
Eternatus: 2 (12.5%)
Toxapex: 4 (25%)

I am willing to cede that my counting may have been human error, but I think we can deem that bar Pex, people are not already reaching towards these walls to put on their team. Not that people simply using these Pokemon is justification either as adding Keldeo to the mix would simply mean these walls are pressured even more, but I think this shows that adding Keldeo to the mix just means there is even more of a builder restriction. I should note that there's nothing wrong inherently with doing a suspect test that the playerbase may not find to be popular. Mix and Mega suspected Galarian Zapdos recently and it was widely shot down by the voters, but doing a retest means that you have to justify why this Pokemon should be brought back more, and there doesn't seem to be that here.

To circle back to what Aggro found to be good switchins because I found his original list of checks that he made in the mashups cord
Aggrimmortal — 08/05/2022
pex, fini, slowtwins, etern, amph clef, gyarados, giratina
Pex - good, Fini - not used, Slowtwins - king isn't used, bro only if megad, Etern - kinda, amph clef - not used, gyarados - not really? 2hkod by origin pulse with rocks up and can be burned by steam eruption, giratina - lol


I can write a whole other paragraph on why the voter list is scuffed anyways, but I find that including council members of questionable activity just automatically in the voter list (especially on a current gen council) is incredibly scuffed. People who did well in seasonal should have automatically been included in the voter list (like semis and beyond). Many people in the Mashups cord seemed to agree that people who were very good were left off the list. Also, doing this in the middle of TPP was very questionable as well. I looked through the stab-n-mega channel in the Mashups discord (I understand there's discussion that happens in the unofficial mnm mashups cord) and there was literally nobody clamoring for Keldeo to come back. In fact, among almost every active SnM player that I have spoken to, nobody wanted it back. I'd personally argue stuff like Garchomp and other Ground-types that heavily restrict building are more problematic (although that's just me) but like, if barely anyone wants Keldeo back bar a couple people who I don't think are playing in TPP and like, a couple council inactives, why was it even suspected. Vibes? Who is running this tier it's so confusing. Not every suspect test has to be popular but this is one in particular where I didn't see anyone state they wanted it back, but here it is, in the middle of a team tour where people seemed pretty pleased with the meta I think? And now it's ruined, so. Good job I guess. I'm really moreso confused than anything, but I'm glad you stuck it to the playerbase. Do better

Edit: To put it in perspective, this is what should have happened. Seasonal ends, you put out a survey. Ask people what they think is currently problematic. If anything pops up a lot you consider a suspect. Ask if people want anything retested. If a bunch of people (for example) say they want Keldeo back, you consider a Keldeo suspect. You can even skip the survey and just ask on Discord or in this thread, "Hey what do people think about a Keldeo suspect?" You don't just retest huge metagame threats without letting anybody know that you are thinking of doing this. A tiering council is supposed to mostly represent the will of the people. If people don't want something, you shouldn't do it. Especially during a huge team tour. That's all.
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some days, you just can't get rid of an egg
Hey everyone, Eggs here. Not gonna lie, this post is going to be a bit of a doozy. First things first, the elephant in the room:


As soon as I saw the Keldeo suspect test, I promptly haha'd the post because there was no way such an obviously broken Pokemon could be let back in to the metagame. Hell, I was literally the dude who banned it a year ago. beauts's excellent post has captured about 90% of my feelings as a STABmons Mix and Mega Player about the Keldeo unrestriction. However, as the former tier leader and a current mashups leader, I have many more issues with this situation. First things first though:

1. Keldeo is broken. Obviously.

Just read my post from last year. Keldeo was so absurdly powerful and metagame-warping that at one point I started running Heavy-Duty Boots Jellicent to counter it. The majority of other players from that time agree, which begs the question:

2. Who wanted this?

Councils exist for the purpose of allowing experienced players with intimate knowledge of a metagame to guide it on the right track. They're supposed to prevent things like unnecessary complex bans and uncompetitive elements, or absurdly improbable scenarios like arbitrarily deciding to unban one of the most feared wallbreakers in a metagame's history and providing little-to-no justification as to why. Wild, I know. As beauts mentioned, the justification behind the Keldeo suspect test was woefully lacking. This wouldn't fly in a regular OM, and the only reason it flew here was because I was on vacation and it slipped under my radar for a few days. However, this wasn't the only thing wrong with this suspect:

3. Suspect Tests require a supermajority to implement change.

This vote was 7-6, with 54% in favor of unrestricting Keldeo. Notably, 54 is less than both 55 and 60, the most common standards for a "Supermajority". Although this specific test did not have any stated requirements for a victory, that doesn't mean that a victory decided by a swing vote is perfectly valid. Mashups leadership has unanimously raised concern over the fact that this was decided 7-6, with many prominent STABnMega players not included among the votes. Speaking of voting:

4. Voting and Requirements

Two major issues occurred while the suspect was ongoing. On August 15th, Aggrometaile was observed offering to throw a tournament match to a friend with the explicit purpose of getting that friend suspect requirements. Thanks to timely intervention by a staff member who informed them this was illegal, the scenario was avoided (the match was played to the end and Aggro was the winner); but the fact that we even had a brush with voting manipulation is frankly disgraceful. Secondly, there was a minor issue with accidentally counting non-suspect tournament tour winners as voters, but this was quickly corrected. However, the existence of an issue like that leads into another problem:

5. Suspect Tournaments are (forgive the pun) kind of suspect.

Fun fact: I'm coming up on my second year in mashups and I've never achieved reqs via suspect tournament before. While that's fairly normal for most of the playerbase, I have been on multiple councils for formats running suspect tournaments, and have even hosted a suspect tournament before. I think it's safe to say that I qualify as a "knowledgeable" mashups player, yet I've never voted in one of these. At the same time, concerns have been raised over the lower barrier to entry of suspect tournaments. Unlike a ladder suspect (or my proposed solution, later in this post), requirements for a suspect tournament can be met in as little as 1-2 games, depending on the number of entrants. It's not unheard of for someone to join a tournament of 2 people, use a sample team, and get voting requirements on a format they've played for two matches. This system clearly isn't doing what suspect tests are supposed to do: make sure that the voters are knowledgeable and familiar with the metagame.

What happens next?

Because of this series of events, it's clear that some changes are necessary. Starting from the top:

1. Effective immediately, Keldeo has been re-restricted in STABmons Mix and Mega
The temporary unbanning of Keldeo will not affect STABmons Mix and Mega matches played in Tours Plaza Premier League IV. Tagging Daki to make sure this goes through.

2. Starting now, all OM Mashups tiering decisions must be ran through a Moderator or Room Owner
Previously this was just common practice, but following a few minor mixups and this event, it's become clear that this should be made a formal requirement for all councils to follow. Before announcing a tiering decision, please run it by a moderator or RO, and tag them in the post.

3. Defining "Supermajority" for use in voting decisions
From now on, an action that must be decided by Supermajority must be approved by a majority of voters that has an advantage of either 2 votes or 20% of the total votes, whichever quantity is the largest. Example: 7-5 is a supermajority, but 32-28 is not.

4. Accountability
While no voting manipulation actually occurred, the fact that we were concerned is unacceptable. Additionally, this is not Aggrometaile's first brush with voting manipulation (he previously instigated a brigade for Mashups Spotlight voting). Given the serious nature of this issue and the history of this user, the Mashups leadership has made the decision to remove Aggrometaile from all positions of leadership within Mashups. Additionally, the STABnMega leadership will be undergoing a review process to better understand how this situation occurred.

5. A possible alternative to Suspect Tournaments
I did some brainstorming on a replacement for our current system (note that this is a suggestion and not an announcement). My solution would be a ballot box, open to all submissions, and all valid votes must meet the following requirements:
  • At least a paragraph explaining the reasoning behind the voter's decision
  • At least one original replay relevant to the discussion
  • At least one team used, with commentary on how it plays into the discussion
This potential system is better suited to the lower amount of games played in Mashups, while also accommodating the theorymon and discussion-heavy nature of Mashups. Additionally, this solves the issue of players unable to attend any tournaments, as relevant replays from any matches can be used in the discussion. For shits and giggles, I'm calling this the McGee Metagame Management System.

I wanted to finish this post off by reminding everyone that it's OK to make mistakes and bad calls. Anyone who's been around for a while knows that I'm no stranger to bad decisions either, and a few mistakes won't the end of the world or a your career in mons. Posts like this exist to correct mistakes we've made, and to stop them from happening in the future.
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Banned deucer.
From now on, an action that must be decided by Supermajority must be approved by a majority of voters that has an advantage of either 2 votes or 10% of the total votes, whichever quantity is the largest. Example: 7-5 is a supermajority, but 32-28 is not.
Not disagreeing with your post at all, I'm just wondering how the supermajority thing of "2 votes or 10%" was chosen. The most common supermajority I usually think of is 60% (10% of total advantage could be as low as 55% to 45%) or 2/3 (common in politics).


some days, you just can't get rid of an egg
Not disagreeing with your post at all, I'm just wondering how the supermajority thing of "2 votes or 10%" was chosen. The most common supermajority I usually think of is 60% (10% of total advantage could be as low as 55% to 45%) or 2/3 (common in politics).
Oops, thanks for pointing out the percentage error, was doing this pretty late at night. Supermajority should be 60% total or a 20% lead. 2 votes was chosen for small voter pools as it ensures the outcome wasn't decided by a single vote.


Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon
approved by myself :)

Hey OMM players, I'm here on behalf of the Ultra Mix council to share a few announcements with you guys.

First, some of you may remember the Butterfree Suspect we announced and may be wondering what happened with it. The short answer is nothing, the suspect was poorly timed with the council's IRL obligations and we kinda just forgot about it, sorry :(.

However, we have not been sleeping at the wheel and have decided to try to right our wrongdoings with the following announcment.

Wishiwashi, Whismur, and Butterfree are now restricted in Ultra Mix.

:ss/wishiwashi: :ss/whismur:

Wishiwashi and Whismur go hand in hand in Ultra Mix, doing very similar things. Both of them sport extremely strong STAB moves in Wicked Blow and Water Spout, further boosted by modifiers such as Download boosts, Adaptibility, and Rain depending on the set. This combination of STAB moves required bulky Pokemon that could resist both Water and Dark such as Water/Fairy Spheal and Dartrix, but Wishiwashi and Whismur could easily opt to run Wood Hammer to send these Pokemon packing, or even their Drizzle + Swampertite sets could eventually muscle through even the bulkiest of resists. Their Swampertite sets also allowed them to outspeed and OHKO almost every relavent offensive Pokemon including Vibrava, Kadabra, Diglett, and Elekid.


As talked about briefly in the suspect post, Butterfree is another Pokemon that people have complained about. With its 2 different sets having different counters, knowing how to play vs Butterfree before it Mega Evolves is a pure guessing game. Butterfree also has acsess to multiple great offensive moves in Boomburst, Moongeist Beam, and Behemoth Bash, which are further boosted by both Download and Quiver Dance, making Butterfree very hard to stop once it has set up. Once after one Quiver Dance, Butterfree could outspeed and threaten most offensive Pokemon with a Aerilate boosted STAB Boomburst or Moongeist Beam, OHKOing frail offensive Pokemon like Kadabra, Golett, and Cuteifly. Butterfree also came with the advantage of self-improofing itself, making it near impossible to revenge kill.

I will have already made a PR on Github by the time this post goes up, but tagging CringeMeta just in case I've messed something up
/tour new [Gen 8] Mix and Mega, Elimination,,,[Gen 8] Ultra Mix
/tour rules Alphabet Cup Move Legality, Camomons Mod, Scalemons Mod, Tier Shift Mod, !Obtainable Abilities, 2 Ability Clause, AAA Restricted Abilities, -Damp Rock, -Eviolite, -Heat Rock, -Light Ball, -Abra, -Darumaka, -Darumaka-Galar, -Gastly, -Pikachu, -Shedinja, *Butterfree, *Chansey, *Raichu, *Raichu-Alola, *Sneasel, *Whismur, *Wishiwashi, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, *Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Comatose ++ Sleep Talk, *Bolt Beak, *Double Iron Bash, *Electrify, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Sleep Powder, *Surging Strikes, *Thousand Arrows, +Calyrex-Ice, +Calyrex-Shadow, +Dialga, +Eternatus, +Gengar, +Giratina, +Groudon, +Ho-Oh, +Kyogre, +Kyurem-Black, +Kyurem-White, +Lugia, +Lunala, +Marshadow, +Melmetal, +Mewtwo, +Naganadel, +Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, +Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, +Palkia, +Pheromosa, +Rayquaza, +Regigigas, +Reshiram, +Urshifu, +Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, +Xerneas, +Yveltal, +Zacian, +Zekrom, +Zygarde-Complete
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 6
!rfaq Ultra Mix
/wall **SAMPLE TEAMS:**


some days, you just can't get rid of an egg
Hi everyone, Eggs here, with two big announcements.

First and foremost: Congratulations to Ducky and Instruct, our newest Room Owners and Project Leaders! Both of these lads are well-known within the community for being amongst the most helpful and knowledgeable people here. I've worked alongside both of them on multiple projects, and have immense confidence in their ability to analyze a situation and make the right decision. I'm excited to see both of them grow into the role and use their skills to grow the community even futher.

Next, I must sadly announce my retirement from the position of Room Owner due to my unimaginable corruption finally catching up with me work schedule interfering with my ability to do the duties of this role. Mashups has been my home for nearly two years now, and I've enjoyed nearly every moment of my time here. From learning STAAABmons with RICEMAN, to using .randquote to set tournaments at 3:00am, and ruling PokeAAAbilities with an Iron Fist, I've had a long and fulfilling journey on my way to the top. Unironically, I believe that the experiences, responsibilities, and challenges I've taken on during my tenure have made me a better and more well-rounded person, and I appreciate all of the people who have influenced me while I was here.

RICEMAN: I remember when I first stumbled upon mashups, and discovered STAAAB during its golden age. I remember asking for help in roomchat with teambuilding, and after you responded you proceeded to mashupspill me, starting me off on this journey. I owe it all to you, my friend.
Instruct: My equal and opposite, and the only person I feel confident saying is more nuts than I am. You're got a very bright head on your shoulders, and I can't wait to see what chaos you unleash with your new powers. Just remember to take your time and take care of yourself.
Ducky: I am incredibly proud of you and how far you've come, and every comparison I made to Batman and Robin was entirely deserved. You are my protege, trained from a younger age, and far more naturally skilled than I ever was. Now, it's time to put on a ridiculous costume step out on your own, and use what you've learned to make the community a better place.
CringeMeta, Isaiah, in the hills, UT, and The Number Man: Thank you for your patience with me while I figured out the ins and outs of the position. I looked up to all of you as an example of excellent leadership, and you never lead me astray.

I still plan to stick around as a moderator, as I will never truly be able to part with this community I've poured so much into, and can still contribute during my downtime. Thank you all so much, and have a great Gen 9!
TSAAA Announcement

I'd like to announce the recent changes to the TSAAA Council. Binacle Pinnacle has recently stepped down from their position as Tier Leader and Council Member, and I'd like to thank them for their contributions and perspective on the metagame. In their place The Dragon Master has joined the council! They are a long-time player and contributor to the format, and we're excited to work with them!

As for the position of Tier Leader, the council has voted and chosen me to fill the role. I'll do my best for the players and the metagame as the new Tier Leader for RICEMAN's choice.
Hi. I'm Nihilslave, a BH player who runs a BH Mashups Server since last year. And after two fun tours held respectively in June and October, I've got some fun replays to share (and also some fun tiers to introduce lol)!
Metagame Style: Unique and Balanced
BH but Pokémon with BST > 500 are banned.
Ruleset - [Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons
Bans - Barraskewda, Chansey, Darmanitan, Darmanitan-Galar, Drizzle
Unbans - Bolt Beak
Standard I
Standard II
Before Drizzle Ban
Before Drum Ban
Wanna play something like BH RU? Balanced Hackmons 500 Cup should exactly be the format you want. Imo if you love BH, you should love BH 500 Cup as well. It's a stable and balanced meta, and less stale than regular BH since there are so much room to explore thanks to the overall low BST.
Metagame Style: Unique but Boring (IMO)
Rules: Already in this thread.
Imagine Banning Drizzle
I personally isn't a fan of this format, mainly because I hate to use unmon. But yea as you see this meta has a big and responsible council so there should be a reasonable amount of people liking it.
Metagame Style: Moderate and Exciting
Rules: Already in this thread. But we made some changes to the banlist since it's a little outdated.
BH but Pokémon change type to match their first two moves.
Ruleset - [Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons, !Sleep Moves Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Camomons Mod
Unbans - Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, Shedinja, Belly Drum, Bolt Beak, Rusted Sword
Restricted - Zacian-Crowned, Intrepid Sword
This meta can be fun, but I have to admit we haven't reached the right point now. People run big STAB moves and Spore, so freeing shed maybe the easiest solution to it? Maybe we just keep its banlist the same as regular BH then everything is solved. Anyway, using a Fairy Eternatus with Poison Heal is tempting isn't it?
Metagame Style: Chaotic but Fun
BH where you can mega evolve any Pokémon (as long as they are not already in "mega" formes) with any mega stone and no limit. Boosts based on mega evolution from gen 7.
You can also "mega evolve" any Pokémon with Red Orb, Blue Orb, Rusted Sword, Rusted Shield, Dragon Ascent, Astral Barrage, and Glacial Lance in this format.
Type "/mnm <pokemon> @ <mega stone>, bh" to see type and stats of Mix and Mega Evolved Pokémon in this format. E.g. /mnm zygardecomplete@rustedshield,bh

Ruleset - [Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons, Nickname Clause, Overflow Stat Mod
Bans - Beedrillite, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite, Astral Barrage > 1, Dragon Ascent > 1, Glacial Lance > 1
Unbans - Calyrex-Shadow, Darmanitan-Galar-Zen, Shedinja, Zacian-Crowned, Belly Drum, Rusted Sword
Restricted - Intrepid Sword
Generally Shows The Mechanics
This meta is almost a virgin land. Some games have been played but none of them is at a high level. It shows the scene of an extreme power creep BH format, which is, tbh, also very unique lol.
Metagame Style: CHAOTIC but FUN
NDBH, but Pokémon can have attack moves in their item slot as fortes. Every attack move of a Pokémon will additionally have the move effects of its forte.
E.g. A Pokémon with Rapid Spin as its forte will give all its attacks the effect of hazard removal and +1 Spe, along with their original effects.

• LGPE Moves, Z-Moves, Max Moves
• OHKO Moves
• Moves That Lower Accuracy
• Multi-hit Moves
• Positive Priority Moves
• Trapping Moves
• Counter-like Moves
• Ratio Damage Moves
• Charge Moves
• Other Banned Moves: Acid Spray, Bide, Bolt Beak, Dynamic Punch, Echoed Voice, Eerie Spell, Fishious Rend, Flip Turn, Frost Breath, Ice Ball, Inferno, Nuzzle, Power Trip, Pursuit, Rising Voltage, Rollout, Shell Side Arm, Sky Drop, Stored Power, Storm Throw, Terrain Pulse, U-turn, Volt Switch, Weather Ball, Wicked Blow, Zap Cannon
Ruleset - [Gen 8] National Dex BH, Forte Clause
Bans - Copycat, Nature Power, Serene Grace, Triage, Endeavor, Nature's Madness, Super Fang, ALL Multi-hit Moves
Grassy Glide
Grav Apple
Imagine Bringing Imposter
Imagine Bringing Forte
Alright I know you need some FAQs so here we go:
Q: What effect do my attack moves get if I have Beak Blast as my forte.
A: Say you are using Core Enforcer that turn. You first heat up your beak as a preparation, if ur opponent hit you with a contact move then, it will be burned. Then hopefully after ur opponent moves, you use Core Enforcer with negative priority, suppressing ur opponent's ability. Your Core Enforcer will also be a contact move which can be nullified by Bulletproof.

From the first Q&A what I want to say is I recently wrote almost 1000 lines of code to make the meta work as you imagine: You properly get all effects (and even some properties) of ur forte STACKED on your attack moves.

Q: What if I have Dragon Tail as my forte?
A: All ur attacks have their priority subtracted by 6, and force the target to switch after hit. They become contact too btw.

Q: What if I have Return as my forte and use Fishious Rend?
A: You will always get a 102 BP Fishious Rend, and never 204. Fishious Rend and Return both modify the power of the move as their effect, and logically the forte's effect is called after the move's if they have effect of the same type. In this case Fishious Rend modifies its power first by multiplying two, then Return does the similar thing by making the move's power equal to a value calculated by Happiness, overlapping the effect of Fishious Rend as a result.

Q: What if I have Facade as my forte and use Expanding Force?
A: You can get a 3x power move under the situation you imagine.

Q: I see someone using recharge moves in some replay without having to recharge. How does he do this?
A: This is a "feature" kinda similar to the Sheer Force + Life Orb combo, which I'm sure isn't a bug at all. You just use [Sheer Force as Ability] + [Any Move Affected by Sheer Force as Forte] + [Recharge Move as Move] then you can achieve the stated effect. Btw if you use something like V-Create as move in this case you also won't get the stat drops. Magic.
Fortemons is an old OM from gen 7 if you don't know it.

My personal favorite meta lol. A little overcentralized but still fun to play. Stacking different move effects together is challenging but also rewarding. Imagine running Future Sight + V-Create to give ur opponent a huge hit after 2 turns!
Metagame Style: People say it burns their brains
Rules: Same as BH Doubles in this thread, but we banned Imposter.
Is This Standard?
Imagine Banning Imposter
Before Imposter Ban
I don't know. And no one knows. I don't think people find out the correct way to play this meta. But, yea, watching 24 legends fighting with each other is fun.
Metagame Style: HAHA
Rules: Check it out urself on the server ;)
City Says This Is The Funniest Replay She've Ever Seen
This format is very slow-paced for sure so we even freed Parental Bond to speed it up. And it needs 4 people to get a game running. It's all fun besides the above 2 drawbacks.
Lastly, if you also want to play (or even make) some interesting BH Mashups, welcome to our discord server to discuss and ask for battles!
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Gen 9 is months away, and just like what i did in previous gen, i'm gonna dump some teams

Camomons Little Cup


The most-default sun build, changed to fit onto Camomons Little Cup format. Vulpix is EV'd in Defense to survived a Life Orb Earthquake from Diglett, in case they tried to trap it on turn 1. Charmander is using Curse mainly for Ghost-typing to avoid Fake Out, and it doesn't need any coverage nor a secondary STAB, just only Fire move and Sun. Modest is used here to ensure a 2HKO on Eviolite Mareanie with Solar Power Fire Blast. Diglett traps random Flash Fire Steels and tells them they're not playing AAA. 19 HP is used to 1HKO offensive Staryu from full with Final Gambit. Natu's job here is to bounce rock from every rock setter you ran into, and since the team doesn't have a slot for a dedicated Eject Button user, Natu ends up being the user instead, and it is crucial as Charmander is incredibly difficult to bring in safely. Timburr is the safety net and the Defogger on this team.

Just a vanilla screen team. Nothing self-explanatory



I just copied the "Dratini + Grookey" concept from Camomons Little Cup, where they spam strong priority together. This time, Eevee is the Espeed user thanks to Adaptability, and its running Earth Power due to Grookey weakening Earthquake with its terrain. the rest are filled with standard Fight/Poison/Steel core.

I saw Sandshrew starts in S, which had ton of movepool, so i build a team around it. Silicobra is the main lead, and its 0 IVs on HP and Defenses so most hits will bring it to 1 HP, killing itself with sandstorm and bring abusers in safely. Sandshrew is Steel/Ghost to not get revenge killed by Grassy Glide and Extreme Speed. Diglett runs Sand Force here to abused Sand. Hippopotas is the other setter and Healing Wish is needed as a way to bring the abusers in safely. Magnemite is only there to trap random Steel/Flying mons.

Same sun build. Diglett is 19 HP, so its Final Gambit can 1HKO Grass/Steel Flash Fire Ponyta after a Vulpix Volt Switch, so Charmander goes brr with Fire Moves afterwards.

STABmons Little Cup


I can't understate just how broken Surging Strikes is in STABmons Little Cup, so i build a team with almost-full Surging Strike abusers and yes, there's a Feebas of all things in this team. This fish demonstrates just how broken the move is:

236 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Feebas Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr on a critical hit: 24-30 (100 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10)

236 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Feebas Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 44 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Foongus on a critical hit: 12-15 (50 - 62.5%) -- approx. 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5)

Grookey 6-0 this team for sure (especially Eviolite Grookey), and if it wasn't for that mon, i would have definitely quickbanned this move by now. Diglett is here with a set designed to specifically trap Grookey. Final Gambit is preferred here, because while Memento is more useful due to this team having 3 set-up sweepers, Final Gambitting a Ferroseed is much more crucial for this team.

My other teams are getting posted later
Is seismic toss included in “ratio damage moves” and does eruption not reduce its damage with the sheer force + sheer force boosted move combo?
Is seismic toss included in “ratio damage moves” and does eruption not reduce its damage with the sheer force + sheer force boosted move combo?
Is seismic toss included in “ratio damage moves”: nope
does eruption not reduce its damage with the sheer force + sheer force boosted move combo: why would u think it does

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