Project OM Mashup Megathread

[The Number Man]

TPP 2 is over, grats to our team for winning! DLC 2 is coming this week, which makes this kinda pointless since meta will change substantially but its tradition so why not. Im gonna drop the teams i used over the tour here and I might add some more in depth metagame observations later if i feel like it.

Here's all my teams. I think they're all ok apart from my w5 rachilax darkspam, that one is an absolute mess. I came really close to using Noivern alot of times, but never actually did. Kinda regret it honestly cause alot of people didnt prep properly for it - something that is actually harder to do in staaab than aaa since you can't just slap av elecvally on your team and basically never lose to noivern. The other observation is Gyara is absolutely insane, just kinda hard to build with.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

With DLC 2 on the horizon, I think I should also do baddy bad analysis on DLC 1 STABmons Doubles and AAA Doubles!

STABmons Doubles



Rillaboom is one of the best Pokemon in the format with its unique trait of being a Fake Out user that has access to Sleep Powder, giving its ally a ton of momentum to work around with by flinching them first then use Sleep Powder to cause the foe to fall asleep. This explains why a lot of Pokemon on my team has Safety Goggles or abilities that are immune to it. The only issue is it suffers from 4 move slots syndrome. Usually, I ditch U-turn in favor of Sleep Powder as I think item removal from Knock Off. I tried that once without Knock Off and I ended up not liking it.

Still, I'm kinda conflicted on whether or not to unban Spore or not. On the one hand, we could have just suspect test Rillaboom if Spore was freed, but on the other hand, Kartana could abuse Spore as well.



Another best hits have to be Dragapult as it can easily fulfill the role of a fast offensive Pokemon, whether be physical or special. The physical attacker set is the best in my opinion as Dragapult gains access to Spectral Thief, the best Ghost-type move in the game, and Clear Body that blocks attack drops from Intimidate. Though the special Attacker set has its own merit as well with Moongeist Beam ignoring abilities and Clanging Scales acting as its powerful spread moves. For its held item, in addition to Choice Band/Specs, I recommend Safety Goggles due to the presence of Rillaboom while also allow you to use Protect. Dragon Dance could work, I guess.



Moonlight has easily made Galarian Weezing better by giving it more longevity on the field, much to the opponent's dismay. However, just like Rillaboom, it suffers from 4 move slots syndrome as well since you have to either ditch one of its attacks for Toxic Spikes or vice versa as Moonlight is too important to be replaced. Baneful Bunker isn't exactly the same as Toxic Spikes since it only activates when the attacker made contact to it.



Chansey is An Impostor
0 Impostor remaining



Dracovish sounds banworthy on paper with its access to Aqua Jet and Flip Turn, but the result was an astounding meh with the presence of Rillaboom. I suppose you could say that it has been vished in STABmons Doubles.

AAA Doubles



While Mew was already good in standard Doubles thanks to its wide variety of support options only held back by its lackluster ability, Mew is easily the best Pokemon in AAA Doubles. Obviously, Prankster stands out as its best ability since it can provide a priority-boosted Tailwind and recovery with either Roost or Softboiled. Of course, there are other abilities that work wonders too, such as Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce, Misty Surge, Psychic Surge, Intimidate... you get the gist.



Like a boomerang, Dragapult is also amazing in AAA Doubles. After experimenting with it a bit, I come to the conclusion that Sheer Force is Dragapult's best ability.



An underrated pick has to be Kyurem with Misty Surge that reduces the power of Dragon-type moves and block status. Kyurem typically holds Assault Vest to extra special bulk. Draco Meteor can be easily be replaced by Dragon Tail to phaze Pokemon out, noticeable any obnoxious Magic Bounce Trick Room setter.



where is a mold breaker fire-type help

In the meantime, I would want to have some discussion about Prankster and Magic Bounce. Prankster is easily the most dominating ability with Tailwind as speed changes now apply in mid-turn from Gen 8 onwards, causing the whole metagame to revolve around those combinations. While you could argue that neither of these is that banworthy as standalone component, most of the Tailwind users also happen to have recovery more for extra longevity. So rather than just focus on Tailwind, I believe taking a look at Prankster instead would the best course. Meanwhile, Trick Room teams love Magic Bounce as it prevents Taunt and Roar/Whirlwind from working without Mold Breaker. It's not a top priority when compared to Prankster, but still.

Unfortunately, I didn't do any Camomons Doubles and BH Doubles was a nightmare.

 

[JojoBoss247]

This thread plays host to a variety of metagames that combine two other metagames

Only two? Why can't we do a Mega Mashup?

Shared Power + Camomons + AAA + STABmons = Mega Mashup. We can even do variations like doubles, Ubers, Nat Dex, and more!

Please at least think about it.

 

[Best Gal]

Only two? Why can't we do a Mega Mashup?

Shared Power + Camomons + AAA + STABmons = Mega Mashup. We can even do variations like doubles, Ubers, Nat Dex, and more!

Please at least think about it.

I think you should take a look at the tour code repository, which includes many a mashup that has 3 or more component metas. Familiarizing yourself with the OMM resources may give you a few ideas.

However, the more metas you mash together, generally, the harder it is to successfully teambuild for it- speaking broadly, the most popular mashups are the ones that are easier to build, like STABmons + AAA, STAB + MnM, Tier Shift + AAA, etc.

 

[The Number Man]

Only two? Why can't we do a Mega Mashup?

Shared Power + Camomons + AAA + STABmons = Mega Mashup. We can even do variations like doubles, Ubers, Nat Dex, and more!

Please at least think about it.

Good question. Generally, our policy is that only mashups of 2 metagames can be considered official mashups. Official mashups are sort of the flagship metas of this room, meaning they receive more attention, more metagame development, a bigger chance to be picked as Mashups spotlight and more likely to be featured in a forum tour.

Mashups of 3+ metagames are considered unofficial, meaning they can still be played, but they do not receive the same amount of attention as official ones. If you check the tour code repository you will see that the unofficial mashups section has a bunch of codes for 3+ meta mashups - those you called Mega Mashups, but we usually call them Mayhem. Random Battles Mayhem (affectionately called Randbtas Mayhem by the community) is one such tier that is quite popular as it features the Shared Power mod along with some others which leads to very chaotic games. We also have Mashups Mayhem, which is just AAA + TS + STABmons + Camomons + MNM. This tier is less popular and more rarely set, since it's quite a bit more complicated to build for than our official mashups.

This ties into what Best Gal talked about - teambuilding difficulty tends to increase exponentially rather than linearly with the number of metas the mashup is composed of, which turns most people away from the more complicated mashups. Historically, the most successful 3 meta mashups have been usage-based tier or Tier Shift variations of an official mashup - such as STAAABmons RU or STAB n Mega TS in gen7. These metas weren't much harder to build for than their official counterparts, so they had pretty solid participation from users.

I hope this answers your question, but with all this said, if you wanna play a Mega Mashup feel free to request it in the chatroom and it will likely be set (especially if you provide a tour code), as long as we don't have anything else planned.

 

[Wolf134]

Okay then, quick question; What do you think about an Inverse Battle + STABmons combo?

 

[The Number Man]

Okay then, quick question; What do you think about an Inverse Battle + STABmons combo?

It's definitely something we could play in the room. If you'd like to discuss potentially playable mashups feel free to join the PS room ( type /j ommashups) or our discord (link in this post https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3657159/).

 

[Roldski32]

LC Mashup Setpedia is updated once again to include Crown Tundra Update:
Camomons LC
Added
Updated set for
Removed

STABmons LC
Added
Updated set for

AAA LC
Added

 

[The Number Man]

STAAABmons announcement!

STABmons has updated their banlist: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stabmons.3656429/page-6#post-8635090.

We are going to initially follow the banlist they provided here, with the exception of Genesect who will be given a chance to see the light of day in this metagame and the addition of Blacephalon, who can never be legal while Chandelure is banned. Additionally, we are unbanning Magearna, as it will help balance out the insanely strong flying and psychic types that entered the metagame, while being kept in check itself by the existence of actually viable Fire types.

The new STAAABmons banlist is therefore (excluding obvious Ubers):
Slaking
Regigigas
Pheromosa
Kartana
Blacephalon
Chandelure
Terrakion
Keldeo
Melmetal
Dragapult
Zeraora
Landorus-I
Calyrex-Shadow
Calyrex-Ice


Thousand Arrows, Lovely Kiss and Geomancy are also now restricted, along with everything that already was.

In order to provide some transparency, the mons that we ban in STAAAB fall into one of three categories:
1) Blazing fast speed tier + enough power to threaten out pretty much every slower offensive pokemon and a combination of wide coverage and/or good mixed attacking stats that let it severely punish would-be switchins (Pult, Zera, Pheromosa)
2) Over the top breaking power that lets the pokemon break through supposed counters with just their STAB moves alone (Keldeo, Terrakion, Chandelure, Blacephalon, Kartana)
3) Uber - tier bulk + offensive stats and the typing to support that if necessary (Melmetal, Regigigas, Slaking, Calyrex fusions)

Notably, Lando-I meets none of the criteria above but Lando typing itself is quite problematic and Lando-T might prove to be banworthy in the future so I don't think we lose anything by keeping Lando-I banned.

Expect another update this Sunday as we gather our thoughts on some other stuff and determine if there's anything else that urgently needs to go (there very likely is). With that said, here's the current watchlist separated into two tiers by priority:

Tier 1 (Extremely likely to be banned on Sunday):
Tapu Koko
Dragonite
Archeops
Genesect
Aerodactyl
Both Thundy forms/Owing restrict

Tier 2 (Probably not banned on Sunday, but will be monitored down the line):
Landorus-T
Latios
Tapu Lele
Naganadel
Zygarde
Zapdos-Galar

I'd also like to add that restricting the new calyrex sig moves might be necessary, as 130 BP ice stab and 120 BP ghost stab with no drawback is very strong. Luckily the best abuser of Astral Barrage (Pult) is banned, but it might still be a bit strong. Not everyone on the council shares my opinion on this however so we will wait a bit longer. Oblivion wing is also on the watchlist, due to the synergy with Triage.

In other news, CVCTT 2 is right around the corner and STAAABmons will again be featured as one of the metagames we are gonna be playing, which means we have additional incentives to balance this metagame as well as possible. With this in mind, expect an update on the STAAABmons banlist every Sunday for the next few weeks, unless we somehow manage to get it right the first time.

Last, I think Volcarona, Chandelure and Terrakion could all potentially be freed, but I'd like the metagame to settle a bit and most of the broken stuff to be cleaned up before we think of any other unbans.

With all this said, this is the new STAAABmons code:

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish, +Gengar, +Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, -Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, +Genesect, -Blacephalon
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons + Almost Any Ability

 

[CringeMeta]

Don Vascus reported a problem with STABmons Inheritance in which moves that are restricted in STABmons but banned in Inheritance (Bolt Beak, Fishious Rend and Shell Smash) were allowed in the mashup as long as the donor Pokemon learns it naturally.

Restrictions on these moves were probably just copied in due to being standard for STABmons mashups but, contrary to what you might expect, it seems that when something is banned in the base format, restrictions by * are not meaningless but unban it as well as restricting it. In other words, be careful when restricting something with * because it can make it MORE widely available rather than less(!)

(It's also worth noting that *-restricting moves doesn't seem to have any effect at all on Inheritance; although you might expect this would prevent passing moves from a donor on to a body that doesn't learn them, only *-restricting species has any effect. This is why Clefable inheriting Sinistea was legal in the game linked above, even though Shell Smash would have been restricted - this restriction would only have been prevented donors like Snorlax or Jolteon that could otherwise get SS as a STABmons legality bonus move from passing it on.)

After checking with other staff, it seems like this behaviour was never intended and is considered unhealthy, so Bolt Beak, Fishious Rend and Shell Smash have now been...unrestricted...so that nothing can use them... >_<

 

[Erag0n]

A little question about the banlist (again). Why isn't kyurem black suspected? I would consider him rater really dangerous with glacial lance as an attack.
And also what about dragon's maw and transistor? Because I've been playing some OU lately and once the opposing ground, grass and dragon types removed (sometimes you can even muscle pass them) he has shown to be a really potent cleaner in my opinion (some sort of vish 2.0, he has only his STAB but it hits hard). And that with only 100 base SpA. I'm pretty afraid what things like xurkitree specs or scarf dragon energy hygreigon will do with it.

 

[The Number Man]

A little question about the banlist (again). Why isn't kyurem black suspected? I would consider him rater really dangerous with glacial lance as an attack.
And also what about dragon's maw and transistor? Because I've been playing some OU lately and once the opposing ground, grass and dragon types removed (sometimes you can even muscle pass them) he has shown to be a really potent cleaner in my opinion (some sort of vish 2.0, he has only his STAB but it hits hard). And that with only 100 base SpA. I'm pretty afraid what things like xurkitree specs or scarf dragon energy hygreigon will do with it.

Oh yeah, Kyurem Black is not explicitly mentioned because I forgot it got unbanned in OU. Kyurem Black will always be banned in this meta, its way too strong.

 

[Tmi489]

A little question about the banlist (again). Why isn't kyurem black suspected? I would consider him rater really dangerous with glacial lance as an attack.
And also what about dragon's maw and transistor? Because I've been playing some OU lately and once the opposing ground, grass and dragon types removed (sometimes you can even muscle pass them) he has shown to be a really potent cleaner in my opinion (some sort of vish 2.0, he has only his STAB but it hits hard). And that with only 100 base SpA. I'm pretty afraid what things like xurkitree specs or scarf dragon energy hygreigon will do with it.

ice horse is already lowkey busted (it comes fairly close to 2koing physdef pex w/o tinted) and better ice horse is just better
dmaw i feel is more abusers and staaab is kinda used to 1.5* multis with the weathers, while transistor would mainly see use in eterrain teams bc electric types like the coverage given by refrigerate or psea (jolteon), plus i think standaone esurge + rv is stronger anyway

 

[The Number Man]

Stab N Mega announcement!

We are going to be following the MNM banlist for the most part, while banning anything that turns out to be broken in the context of SNM (but not in MNM) and unbanning stuff that is deemed less powerful in SNM than MNM. In addition we are rolling back the stonebans on Blissey + Chansey and Magearna, as well as restricting Transform as Megastone Bliss/Evio Chans with transform are crazy powerful.

New code:

/tour new [Gen 8] Mix and Mega, Elimination
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Boomburst, *Double Iron Bash, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy,*Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Thousand Arrows, *Transform, *V-create, *Wicked Blow, +Eternatus, +Lunala, *Eternatus, *Lunala
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Mix and Mega

EDIT: Ty Derpeddeath for reminding me to restrict 1ka, geo, lovelykiss

 

[Tranquility]

STAAABMONS ANNOUNCEMENT ​

The STAAAB Council has voted on 9 mons following the release of Crown Tundra. After some discussion on who to put on the first voting list and whether to ban or not, The Council voted to Ban Tapu Koko, Dragonite, Archeops, Zygarde, Both Thundurus Forms and Genesect from the tier while Aerodactyl and Glastrier will still be allowed! We'll still be monitoring the Tier 2 Mons on The Number Man's list and any other threats that may emerge, so prepare for more changes in the future!

Bans

( 5 Ban, 1 DNB) - Koko emerged itself as one of the top mons in the tier, with it's great speed tier and access to powerful stabs made it a necessity to run Volt Absorb, since mixed sets with grass knot and Fleur Cannon could beat grounds, and was thus banned for being too warping.

(4 Ban, 1 Abstain, 1 DNB) - Espeed Aerilate plus DD had very few resistances, and with strong attack and setup could work as a breaker or cleaner (Banned from STAAAB In gen 7).

(3 Ban, 2 Abstain, 1 DNB) - Another mon banned from gen 7 STAAAB, Strong attack and good speed with potential to run mixed made for very little checks, even if it wasn't commonly used.

( 6 Ban) - Ability to dual setup with shift gear or quiver dance and have strong stabs for each (Sunreel, Mega Horn / Steel Beam) made it hard to check after one setup due to the multitude of sets it can run.

/

- Incarnate (4 Ban, 1 Abstain, 1 DNB), Therian ( 5 Ban, 1 Abstain) -The most problematic Oblivion Wing Users due to their really high special attack and nasty plot, along with also being able to use parabolic charge as another triage move, Taunt and good coverage.

(6 Ban) - Thousand Arrows Plus a boosting ability had little counterplay, and also having access to Dragon Dance and Extreme Speed for Utility vs more fat mons or offensive mons or shore up for longevity made it even more hard to play against.

Not Banned Mons

(3 Abstain, 3 DNB) - With Dauntless around, it's hard for this mon to be able to break at times even despite Dragon Dance, we'll see however if that changes with the bans of more problematic offensive mons.

(1 Ban, 1 Abstain, 4 DNB) - While Glastrier has shown to be very effective under trick room, it's lack of switchins and speed outside of TR made it an inconsistent mon without correct setup, only relying on Ice Shard for speed control. We'll also be looking at Glacial Lance in the future to see if there is other abusers of it and if it's problematic down the road.

Updated Code

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish, +Gengar, +Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, -Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, -Blacephalon, -dragonite, -tapu koko, -thundurus, -thundurus-therian, -archeops, -zygarde
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons + Almost Any Ability

 

[The Number Man]

1. Almost Any Ability Ubers is the new Mashups spotlight!

Code:

/tour new [Gen 8] Ubers, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, Dynamax Clause, -Baton Pass
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Almost Any Ability Ubers

Additionally, we are moving back to a biweekly spotlight with the chance to extend popular spotlights for an additional two weeks in order to reduce the amount of "dead" spotlights and to enable us to pick Omotm mashups as spotlights in the event of an Omotm mashup gaining huge popularity.

The current spotlight will run from Oct 26th to Nov 15th, after which a new one will be picked unless there is high demand for an extension of AAA Uber's spotlight status.

An AAA Ubers forum tour is in the works right now as well, altho I am still waiting for confirmation from OM leaders. In the mean time, we can use this as an opportunity to make some initial balancing decisions for this metagame. The main thing that stood out to me was Calyrex-Shadow - I've seen multiple teams get swept by it.

If anyone has suggestions for potential banworthy mons, feel free to post them in this thread.

2. As you might remember, I announced a daily schedule a little over a month ago. The first cycle is finally over, congratulations to Derpeddeath, PokaPK, Don Vascus and manu 11 for being the top 4 users on the leaderboard.

The four users will fight it off in a series of bo3s - exact format is under discussion and will be edited in as they decide it.

Semis:
Derp vs Manu
Poka vs Don

Winners face eachother in a bo3 for the rank of room prize winner.

The next cycle will last until spotlight changes - nov 15th.

EDIT: Format for this cycles Bo3 in playoffs:
Playable metas are STABmons inheritance, STAAABmons, STAB n Mega, CAAAMomons, Tier Shift AAA
Player on the left picks a meta that will be played. Player on the right picks another meta and bans a third meta. Player on the left bans a meta. The remaining meta is played for G1. The next meta is picked by the loser.

Example:
TNM vs Best Gal
TNM picks STAAABmons
Best Gal picks TS AAA, bans STAB Inhe
TNM bans STAB n Mega
The players will thus play CAAAMO in g1 and finish it off with STAAABmons and TSAAA.

 

[Karl Dude Guy]

Myself, Don Vascus and Best Gal have formed a Camomons + Almost Any Ability Council! - Approved by The Number Man

Immediate Bans!

- Kartana and Dragonite were banned from Camomons, so it will affect CAAAmomons aswell. Kartana's Tough Claw sets with great STAB options and 181 Atk makes it very hard to switch in to. As for Dragonite, Aerilate or Tough Claws sets combined with Extreme Speed and set up options is just too much for the metagame to handle.
- Archeops and Regigigas will be banned both having amazing stats combined with a great movepool and ability.

- We will be discussing which pokemon we think are unhealthy for the meta and have a vote sometime soon. (TBD)

Updated Code and Banlist!

Banlist

Banlist:
Pokemon: Archeops, Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Dialga, Dragonite, Eternatus, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kartana, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Mewtwo, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Rayquaza, Regigigas, Reshiram, Solgaleo, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zacian, Zamazenta, Zekrom, Zygarde-Complete
Abilities: Arena Trap, Comatose, Contrary, Fluffy, Fur Coat, Gorilla Tactics, Huge Power, Ice Scales, Illusion, Imposter, Innards Out, Libero, Moody, Parental Bond, Power Construct, Protean, Pure Power, Shadow Tag, Simple, Stakeout, Speed Boost, Water Bubble, Wonder Guard

Code

/tour new [Gen 8] Camomons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Power Construct, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Archeops, -Regigigas, +Darmanitan-Galar, 2 Ability Clause,
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Camomons + Almost Any Ability

Feel free to leave your thoughts!

 

[Tranquility]

Updated staaab code that has the zydog (previous code has it banned bc tnm bad)

Code

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish, +Gengar, +Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, -Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, -Blacephalon, -dragonite, -tapu koko, -thundurus, -thundurus-therian, -archeops, -zygarde, -regigigas, +zygarde-10
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons + Almost Any Ability

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Kyurem Black and Marshadow have been banned in AAA Doubles!

Since AAA Doubles follows Doubles OU ruleset and Doubles OU has unbanned Kyurem Black and Marshadow, it is decided that it's best to ban both of these Pokemon due to them having their already good ability being able to replace by a better one. While Return/Frustration isn't in the game, Kyurem Black could take advantage of Skill Link or Technician thanks to it having access to Icicle Spear now. Meanwhile, Marshadow could either opt for Tough Claw or Adaptability to take advantage of its unresisted STAB or it probably goes for Defiant or Mirror Armor in case of Intimidate.

updated tour code

/tour new Doubles, elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Anger Point, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Rattled, -Serene Grace, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Soul-Heart, -Stakeout, -Steam Engine, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Dracovish, -Dracozolt, -Kartana, -Kyurem-Black, -Marshadow, -Regigigas, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] Almost Any Ability Doubles

Current watchlist:
Diancie
Prankster

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Marshadow and Shadow Tag has been banned in Doubles OU!

Oh no! Anyway.
With DaWoblefet finally getting mished with the ban of Shadow Tag, this will only affect STABmons Doubles as it has been banned in both AAA Doubles and Camomons Doubles. I only used it for Perish Song shennaigans and failed miserably. We will see how Gothitelle adapt with the loss of Shadow Tag. Arena Trap will not be a concern at all considering how frail Dugtrio is and its lackluster support options.

And what else do you expect from Marshadow

 

[longhiep341]

I will go ahead and dump some DLC teams I made for new sample teams cause I'm not going to play much, if at all for a while
Doubles STABmons

Description

This is a pretty straightforward offensive team with Incineroar slapped in. Astral Barrage, Expanding Force and Glacial Lance are all broken spread moves to spam. Aerodactyl and Whimsicott provide fast Tailwind, with Aerodactyl also puts out countermeasures against opposing spread moves. Incineroar weakens Glacial Lance while also resists it, Expanding Force, Astral Barrage and Grassy Glide. Taunt shuts down Trick Room, Topsy-Turvy for setup, but you can replace it with U-Turn if you are comfortable dealing with setup.

Doubles AAA

Description

Crobat is the fastest Tailwind available. Amoonguss provides Prankster Spore and redirection. Zygarde is broken, I put Extreme Speed there but you can literally replace that with whatever, you will only need 3 moves most of the time. Alakazam is a good Psychic Terrain abuser, and Blacephalon can deal massive damage to both enemies with Mind Blown (It also hurts your ally though). Stakataka is there mostly to counter Trick Room by setting another Trick Room, also Wide Guard I guess.

AAA Ubers

Description

A balance team that revolves around the threats in the meta. Tinted Lens Calyrex-Ice is the cleaner, with Trick Room and potential +2 from Weakness Policy allowing it to 2HKO almost anything. Yveltal counters the prominent Calyrex-Shadow, while Eternatus beats Bulk Up Marshadow, Kyogre's Water Spout and non Mold Breaker GeoXern. Lugia is my form of hazard control since it boasts high speed and better mixed defenses, but Ho-Oh is also good. NDM's spread allows it to outspeed Calyrex-Shadow and Zacian-C at +2, acting as an alternative sweeper while also being a physical wall against Zacian-C. Regigigas helps lessen the pressure for Yveltal, since Specs Tinted Lens Calyrex-Shadow can 2HKO Yveltal after Rock, while also works as a great early game breaker and nuisance with Knock Off.

STAAABmons

Description

A HO team with Ninjask to set hazards and Latios as the main threat. Dragon Energy from full HP 2HKOs many walls but the blobs, including physically defensive Steel/Flying, Assault Vest Lanturn and Incineroar, among others (still 17.6% to 2HKO against 248 HP/8 SpD), while Psystrike nails the blobs and most Fairies. Trick creates a setup bait for other members. Victini eliminates the Steel mons that can handle Latios (mostly Magearna). Togekiss and Cloyster are late game cleaners. Gengar's slot is a filler, I chose Sash Gengar to improve matchup against offense, you can replace it with whatever you want depending on what you want to beat (Pivot wall to bring others in safely, Water Absorb to ease time against rain, etc)

Description

This team specializes in breaking defensive cores and stall. The combination of Doom Desire/Future Sight + Zapdos-Galar/Dracozolt can break any core since nothing can take both at the same time. Umbreon has Water Absorb since this team can struggle against rain and Psyspam otherwise. Thick Fat is an underrated ability, and Steelix makes great use of it. It can live a Mind Blown from Heatran, as well as tank all the Adaptability/Tinted Lens Glacial Lance that is trending. Protect is to lessen the risk against Tinted Lens Lando-T, which can outpace the whole team with Scarf and threaten the whole team with Tinted Lens Dragon Ascent/Precipice Blades.

STAB and Mega

Description

A sun team with web support. Blacephalon is the main star, with Blue Flare in sun so strong it can even 2HKO Sablenite Blissey. Groudon runs max speed to outpace uninvested Arcanine. Victini is another breaker, with V-Create and Photon Geyser deleting all relevant threats in sun. Darmanitan-Galar is another form of speed control, with Scarf allowing it to outspeed up to fully invested base 166 and below (notable benchmark is Lucarionite Dragapult at 164 base speed). Buzzwole sets Web and also momentum with U-Turn. Braviary is there to punish Defog, while with Altarianite also walls Dragapult and other ghosts.

Description

A Bulky Offense team with Kyurem and Zeraora as breakers. Zeraora's STABs nail the common Corviknight/Blissey(Chansey)/Toxapex core, while Kyurem can also break plethora of other defensive choices. Arcanine and Dragonite are the Espeed abusers, and Rhyperior is the team's mixed wall. Lele can act as an early game breaker or late game cleaner, but should be used carefully as it can hinder Arcanine and Dragonite's Extremespeed

Other teams that are more memey/I'm not sure good enough:
https://pokepast.es/ba2a24bde412e952
A Doubles STABmons rain team, but since Drizzle + Swift Swim is banned I have to use manual rain, if it's ever unbanned replace Klefki with Pelipper, gameplan is quite simple, set rain, spam Origin Pulse.
https://pokepast.es/9de38d855319c604
A Doubles AAA steel spam + Trick Room team that I've never used before. Steelix and Stakataka use Heavy Slam instead of Gyro Ball to prevent pitiful damage against other Trick Room team. Rain is to reduce fire damage.
https://pokepast.es/03355b192c098dfb
An old HO STAAABmons team that I think is more flawed than my other HO STAAAB team, so I won't add description.
https://pokepast.es/bdbe66d69b0d65d0
This STAB and Mega team makes you realize I'm a Web addict if you haven't already. This is based on theorycrafting and haven't been used in battles yet, so I'm not sure about its effectiveness.

 

[The Number Man]

1) Tinted Lens is now banned from STAAABmons!

With the vastly increased power level due to the new additions from from DLC 2 we were forced to face ourselves with an issue that's already been debated. The Tinted Lens debate started during the time Melmetal was legal and it was one of the things that made it so frustrating to deal with. Tinted Lens obviously works best on mons with high attacking stats and high BP stabs, unfortunately for us DLC brought a bunch of such things with it. Most relevant are Dragon Ascent abusers such as Lando and Zap-Galar and Glacial Lance abusers such as Icehorse, Mamo, Weavile etc. Tinted Lens can to an extent be circumvented by Dauntless Shield, but even then that puts you just outside of 2hko range and forces you to recover, sapping momentum instead of gaining it. In addition, there is the notorious Surging Strikes, which ignores Dauntless and requires a completely different checks than the rest of TL abusers.
In order to not have to ban a bunch of moves and mons (yet), we decided to ban Tinted Lens first - as it has consistently been the thing that pushes mons on the edge of broken into clearly broken territory. We will be keeping an eye out for the other elements as well though, in order to see if Dragon Ascent and Glacial Lance (to a lesser extent Astral Barrage) abusers, as well as the moves themselves, are still too powerful, even in the absence of Tinted Lens. The main goal of this change is therefore to be able to more accurately gauge the power level of certain elements of the metagame, as otherwise TL is always something that comes up in discussion. Thus it is also possible that we unban TL in the future, if we deem its banning unnecessary in a lower power level environment.

New code:

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, Elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, *Transform, *No Retreat, *V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Dracovish, +Gengar, +Porygon-Z, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, -Wicked Blow, -Zeraora, -Chandelure, -Melmetal, -Electrify, -Volcarona, -Blacephalon, -Dragonite, -Tapu Koko, -Thundurus, -Archeops, -Zygarde, -Regigigas, +Zygarde-10%, -Tinted Lens
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons + Almost Any Ability

2) In other news, the daily series playoffs have reached finals:

Don vs Manu

The rules are the same as last round. Good luck to both of you!

3) EDIT: It was brought to my attention that the previous SNM code allowed Etern and Lunala to mega evolve. This was a consequence of them being unbanned in mix and mega, which meant that unbanning them again via code actually let them use stones, in spite of them being added as restrictions as well. Code has been updated:

/tour new [Gen 8] Mix and Mega, Elimination
/tour rules STABmons Move Legality, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Bolt Beak, *Boomburst, *Double Iron Bash, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy,*Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Thousand Arrows, *Transform, *V-create, *Wicked Blow
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 4
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons Mix and Mega

 

[The Number Man]

Double posting to share my thoughts on the new spotlight after building a few teams and playing some games in order to hopefully start a discussion on how to start balancing this with the AAA Ubers tour (signup here) starting next week.

There's a few things that immediately jump out to me as metagame warping:

/ +
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Tough Claws/Download/Steelworker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Play Rough/Wild Charge
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Life Orb (or anything else, i chose LO for more power)
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Atk / 188 Def / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake

Urshifu @ Choice Band
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wicked Blow
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch

These two mons, or rather the simultaneous threat of both of them is a big pressure in builder. More immediately threatening is Urshifu, as nothing (yes, actually nothing) switches into CB Sniper Wicked Blow apart from max hp, max def Xern and perhaps mons running Shell armor/Shadow shield, the first being an insanely niche ability, while the latter is no longer a switchin after a U-turn. Realistically, this forces defensive xern onto teams, which can be taken advantage of insanely easily by powerful steel types such as Zac/NDM, especially as it's just barely not being 2hkod itself. These steels can be handled somewhat well by Hooh, opposing defensive NDM and in NDM's case Giratina, but this still forces you to run at least two physical walls to stand a chance vs a very strong and splashable offensive core. Zac additionally offers lategame cleanup and speed control as long as Caly is out of the way whereas the above EVs on NDM let it check Modest Tinted GeoXern by always living +2 moonblast from full as well as opposing Zac by always living +3 CC from Download or +2 CC from Tough Claws.

calcs (it obviously ohkos offensive stuff):
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas on a critical hit: 165-195 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Yveltal on a critical hit: 229-270 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus on a critical hit: 361-427 (74.5 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The aforementioned defensive Xern set:


Xerneas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Protect


While Yveltal could theoretically run physdef and serve as a switchin to Shifu+NDM, it is forced into running specially defensive regenvest in order to act as a switchin to the plethora of Ghost and Psychic type breakers, most notably Caly-S, Mewtwo and Lunala. Speaking of Caly S, the following set acts as the ultimate speed control against pretty much anything other than DD Ray, but TL/Adapt can also be used on dedicated Psyspam:

:calyrex-shadow-rider:
Calyrex-Shadow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock
- Expanding Force
- Trick


Yveltal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch

Moving onto Rayquaza, this is a mon that seems absolutely impossible to answer on paper, especially since there are no real defensive counters to it and DD lets it outpace offensive checks after one boost. Perhaps some versions of NDM can stomach hits from it and Prank Giratina can switch in on non Dragon moves, but that's about it. As for offensive checks, non DD sets are relatively easy to answer as long as you have a psychic surger on your team, whereas DD is only revenged by Sash mons or Scarf Dazzling Marshadow. With all that said, it has not been that impressive in practice but I also haven't seen much of it either.


Rayquaza @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor
- V-create/Earthquake
- Swords Dance/Dragon Dance

Rayquaza @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Claw
- V-create/Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

And last, we have the infamous Specs Ogre that claims a kill everytime it comes in:


Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Toxic/Thunder/whatever, not like this clicks anything other than water stab

This is all for now. I am very interested to hear your guy's thoughts on this so feel free to reply or start a discussion in the PS room. We obviously won't be able to completely balance this, but I'd like to at least remove the elements that are massively constraining in teambuilder.

 

[Atha]

Moving onto Rayquaza, this is a mon that seems absolutely impossible to answer on paper, especially since there are no real defensive counters to it and DD lets it outpace offensive checks after one boost. Perhaps some versions of NDM can stomach hits from it and Prank Giratina can switch in on non Dragon moves, but that's about it. As for offensive checks, non DD sets are relatively easy to answer as long as you have a psychic surger on your team, whereas DD is only revenged by Sash mons or Scarf Dazzling Marshadow. With all that said, it has not been that impressive in practice but I also haven't seen much of it either.


Rayquaza @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor
- V-create/Earthquake
- Swords Dance/Dragon Dance

Rayquaza @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Claw
- V-create/Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Yeah Rayquaza is definetly broken. Also be mindful of this one when building lol

Rayquaza @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Claw
- V-create
- Draco Meteor

Not to mention the Adaptability mixed sets, just to make sure nothing comes in safely

 

[Aloopuriza]

1) Tinted Lens is now banned from STAAABmons!

NANII?!?!?!?!?!?