Orange Islands SQSA Thread

I'll have some much needed free time next week after lots of classes and traveling, and I just want to rest. Was thinking of going back and playing some old games on old DS. I have Emerald, FireRed, Platinum, Soul Silver, White, White 2, Omega Sapphire and Sun. I also have Ultra Sun but most of my stuff is on that game so I won't start a new one.

I'm big into collecting (I have a near complete living dex, over a box of shinies, comp. pokes, apriball collection, etc.) what do you think the replay values of these games are from a pure collecting standpoint? Which would be the most and least valuable playthroughs? Obviously legendaries, and maybe Apriballs in Soul Silver, but other events, mechanics, special pokemon, etc. that are make any of these games especially worth it?
Honestly? Not that much. Maybe some Safari Ball Pokemon you don't already have, but most of the special Pokemon are unavailable outside of exploits or third party software to receive the gifts. (particularly as Game Freak embraced just giving people the special Pokemon rather than letting them catch the Pokemon themselves) And IIRC, Cosplay Pikachu cannot leave the game it's obtained in.

It may be best just to enjoy the games rather than fret which has the best replay value for a collector, particularly as I would think you would have obtained everything you could the first time. (or jump back in to snag what you missed and can collect) But you do you.
 
but other events, mechanics, special pokemon, etc. that are make any of these games especially worth it?
White 2 has the shiny Dratini for clearing White Tower, though it won't have its hidden ability. You can't get the shiny Haxorus, unfortunately, since doing so requires you to get Pokemon that only appear in Black, Black 2 or later generations. It also has N's Pokemon, if you're into that sort of thing.

Soul Silver obviously has the red Gyarados.

Emerald and Fire Red have a few exclusive tutor moves. Off the top of my head, the most notable is probably Seismic Toss Kangaskhan -- you can get it in the Virtual Console, but it's locked to its hidden ability, which is a problem when Scrappy is generally more useful. But that's probably of limited use with Megas disappearing next generation.
 
White 2 has the shiny Dratini for clearing White Tower, though it won't have its hidden ability. You can't get the shiny Haxorus, unfortunately, since doing so requires you to get Pokemon that only appear in Black, Black 2 or later generations. It also has N's Pokemon, if you're into that sort of thing.

Soul Silver obviously has the red Gyarados.

Emerald and Fire Red have a few exclusive tutor moves. Off the top of my head, the most notable is probably Seismic Toss Kangaskhan -- you can get it in the Virtual Console, but it's locked to its hidden ability, which is a problem when Scrappy is generally more useful. But that's probably of limited use with Megas disappearing next generation.
IIRC, all of N's Pokemon except Zorua require the use of Memory Link.

Also, anything meant for Mega Evolution may still have a use in case it returns in the future. (or just kept in gen 6/7 where Mega Evolution is present)
 
I'll enjoy the replay value of it no matter what I think. I haven't played the games in forever.

Seismic Toss Clefable and DexNav hunting may also be useful.

Plus I could do some shiny chaining.

I think the biggest most obvious positives are the ability to add bank balls and a huge collection of legendaries.
 
In LGPE, how many of a species do you have to catch before the catch rate on it starts increasing? I've caught over 50 Chansey by now and still the circle is orange.
 
In LGPE, how many of a species do you have to catch before the catch rate on it starts increasing? I've caught over 50 Chansey by now and still the circle is orange.
Caps at 50 afaik, but Chansey'll always stay orange/red no matter how hard you try.

Annoying yes... just remember to run away when you see it motioning that it's going to run away shortly and you'll be fine.
 
Caps at 50 afaik, but Chansey'll always stay orange/red no matter how hard you try.

Annoying yes... just remember to run away when you see it motioning that it's going to run away shortly and you'll be fine.
I don't quite understand then; because on my first file, I was able to get Chansey to be consistently green with Ultra Balls (though it was Yellow for a bit).
 
I don't quite understand then; because on my first file, I was able to get Chansey to be consistently green with Ultra Balls (though it was Yellow for a bit).
Sounds weird to me, I've done plenty of Chansey chains to level up and it never dropped below yellow. Are you sure you're not thinking of lower level versions rather than the ones in CC?
 
Sounds weird to me, I've done plenty of Chansey chains to level up and it never dropped below yellow. Are you sure you're not thinking of lower level versions rather than the ones in CC?
Nah, I've been doing it in Cerulean Cave.

Update on this, actually -- some of them started turning yellow around 92, and then all of them turned green after 100. Weird but whatever, my team's all level 100 now
 
Does Mind Reader guarantee that your second Pokemon's attack will always hit the target of Mind Reader in a double battle?

Ex: If my Greninja uses Mind Reader on my opponent's pokemon, that does that mean my Gengar's Focus Blast is guaranteed to hit that same Pokemon for that turn?
 
No, Mind Reader is limited to the Pokemon that uses it, and only on the pokemon targetted by it.

Would be pretty broken otherwise.

(queue funny Porygon-2 and its Zap Cannon scenarios from Battle Tree)
 
Not sure how 'simple' this is or where else it should go otherwise, but:

Why does the Wi-Fi exploit in the DS games (re-obtain all event Pokemon from a custom server, get online battles back, etc.) not work for the 3DS games?
 
Not sure how 'simple' this is or where else it should go otherwise, but:

Why does the Wi-Fi exploit in the DS games (re-obtain all event Pokemon from a custom server, get online battles back, etc.) not work for the 3DS games?
Maybe because the DS games used the Nintendo Wi-Fi whereas the 3DS games use Nintendo Network.?
 
As someone who has only ever played Emerald long ago, I've never understood people's obsession with jerk rivals. Can someone please explain it to me? I can sort of understand the whole "wanting to prove you're better than a smug asshole", but wouldn't it be better if the rival was an interesting character, regardless of whether or not they're mean to you? Not saying May is necessarily a good character, by the way. I honestly don't remember much about her. I have heard good things about Hugh, however.
 

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As someone who has only ever played Emerald long ago, I've never understood people's obsession with jerk rivals. Can someone please explain it to me? I can sort of understand the whole "wanting to prove you're better than a smug asshole", but wouldn't it be better if the rival was an interesting character, regardless of whether or not they're mean to you? Not saying May is necessarily a good character, by the way. I honestly don't remember much about her. I have heard good things about Hugh, however.
Probably a mixture of two main things. The first and easier one to talk about is a quality thing - historically most if not all of the rivals who have been “jerks” are also the memorable ones. Blue, Silver, Hugh, even Gladion to some extent tend to stick around for people more than the rest of the cast, while on the other hand...

On the other hand.

Many of the less liked rivals have fit into the “friendly rival” variant, going as far back as gen 3 where the rival had a strong start from a battling perspective but then faded into utter irrelevance and didn’t even fully evolve their starter. BW1 Bianca and Cheren, while not the worst in my opinion, suffered from overexposure - by the time you’re able to challenge the second gym you’ve fought Bianca twice, Cheren three times, encountered each on a side quest, and had Cheren hand you some berries. And this is Unova, not Kalos, so there’s three fairly short routes between the starting town and the second gym.

The largest grievances tend to go towards the XY friendgroup and Hau, and I don’t really want to get into that again, there’s been a lot said before about what the issues with them are (Hau gets some improvement in USM imo) so I’ll move on to the second point.

Rivalry implies competition, and in the world of Pokemon battling alone isn't enough, not when battling is something done with upwards of half the NPCs in the game and approaching 90% of the named ones. There has to be an impetus behind the competition beyond just “we’re going to battle” otherwise it‘s not really a rival. The straightforward way to do this is by making the rival character somebody the player personally wants to beat because it’s more satisfying when they lose. This could be defeating somebody who’s very arrogant and taunting the player about being worse, or it could be somebody who just rubs the player the wrong way due to their actions (like being criminal scum). In short, a jerk rival.

This isn’t the only way of course, and one of the more well liked rivals who isn’t really a jerk is N. However, the game sets things up so that the player really wants to beat them, the underlying drive to beat N is so integral that it usurps the normal Pokemon league story thread. Putting weight and meaning behind the battling is important for developing a sense of competition for the player, the thing that separates a rival from a standard NPC.

the exception to this is Barry and I don’t know how to address him sorry
 
I think the big difference between Barry and most other friendly rivals is that he's the one most directly in competition with you. Sure, you're childhood friends and he's a good dude and he's always helping out; but just as often he's going on about the gym battle he just won or how many badges he has or how he's gonna take down the league. You are very much in a race with him to reach the championship.

Other friendly rivals in comparison are just nowhere near as into it. For Brendan/May it's at best a side thing; Wally infamously just kind of comes out of nowhere in the late game; Hau and Serena/Calem are still ostensibly racing you but they're just clearly not as into it as friggin' Malasadas or something. The rest of the rivals from XY as well as Bianca end up having completely different goals so you're not competing against them in any sense either. Cheren is the only one aside from Barry that really fits into this role, but I think what makes Barry work over him is that Barry is super into it and hyperactive all the time while Cheren is always very calm and relaxed which doesn't terribly get you hyped or anything.

Ironically enough, while we throw about the term 'friendly rival' a lot; Barry and Cheren are the only ones that you could really call both friendly and rivals. Many of the other characters that technically fit into that role as I've said just aren't that bothered.
 

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I would also say that, as of recent generations, they've been making the friendly rival TOO friendly. Specifically with Serena/Calem and Hau. You actually feel bad beating them and even at a point would feel like you're the jerk rival when they begin to visually or contextually show signs their getting disheartened of the experience. Serena/Calem personally asked the player if they could be rivals so they could improve each other, only for them to discover the player is already way ahead of them in battling skill with them getting nothing out of constantly losing to them. Hau wants to beat his grandfather, it's a more personal quest, but no matter how he improves in battling the player beats him taking him back a few steps in confidence (and it's not until he splits to train on his own/with his grandfather does he get the confidence needed to beat the Elite Four (including his grandfather thus accomplishing his goal) and challenge the player again). And there's nothing you can do about it. What are you going to do, lose to them? Can't progress with the story at several points until you do, and even if it's a "close" battle a loss is a loss. But how were other past rival battles handled:

May/Brendan are disappointing in the original RSE because they get their rival spot later taken by Wally, though thankfully ORAS fixes this so that they're more relevant (not only finally evolving their Starters to 2nd stage but also giving them the bookend battle at the end of the main game). Anyway, because of them dropping off from being your rival, and them not even competing in the Pokemon League, that makes battles with them more casual feeling and obviously a trainer who is focused on battling is going to beat one who is focused on the field of research.

Wally had a good story, a weak kid you & your dad help out and slowly you see him improve until eventually he's on "even" grounds with you being the rival battle before the Pokemon League. Battling Wally actually feels good because it's not you beating on a weak kid but rather you personally helped this weak kid become stronger and he's battling you to show you how much he improved himself rather then trying to beat you. In a way he idolizes you and wants to show you how happy and stronger he is, AND if he just so happens to beat you that would just be the icing on top of the cake. And like with May/Brendan, ORAS pushed the character further, even going so far to show that by the time you reach the Battle Resort he has dived into competitive battling and thinking about team synergy (probably spends a lot of his time on Smogon now... wait...).

Barry is a friendly rival who's just a bit pushy. His "fining you 1 million dollars" is to be more taken as a joke between him and the player, it's like him saying "last one to the next city buys the other a soda!" then doing some finger guns and a wink before running off. He doesn't actually expect anything from you, more him just saying you gotta hurry up in his own way which doesn't get through well since you don't know in what way he's saying it. Battling Barry actually feels more casual since he challenges the player so randomly. You battle, you beat him, and then he's gone. However they do show when the going gets rough he'll have your back, may not be able to defeat Team Galactic alone but when you need a double battle partner against their admins he's right there to heal you before, be your partner, and heal your after.

Personally I think Cheren and Bianca have been two of the best handled rivals. While both are friendly and you encounter them a lot that shows you are all indeed friends, are on a journey together, and gives them plenty of time to develop their characters. And you see the result of that in B2W2 in where they are in their lives and how the experience of these games shaped them. Battling with them never felt they went beyond casual, at most maybe Cheren started to take them seriously while Bianca wondered if she's really cut out to be a trainer, however those character changes had occurred way before battling the player so it's more them re-confirming to themselves their thoughts and feelings by battling the player then coming to a new realization from losing to the player.

Hugh is an interesting case where he's only a friendly rival to you but to everyone else he's a jerk. I've always said it felt like Hugh should have been the main character of Gen V as it's sort of his quest you're on to get back her sister's Purrloin from Team Plasma. However with how extreme he is in his personality, the player is needed to provide a more level-headed view on things and keep Hugh in check. Battling Hugh has two sides to it: on Hugh's side he's testing the player to see if they're up to the task be it battling Team Plasma or helping the player get ready for his Pokemon League battling. On the player's side it's to calm down Hugh and give him a moment to think things over; you could even say the battles are sorta therapeutic in that way.

Battling Trevor and Tierno feels like nothing. You battle and move on. That's it. No development there, might as well just been a random trainer on the road.

Shauna there is something there, though sadly I would say because they split her battles and screen time with Trevor and Tierno she doesn't get fully developed or you at least don't see her full development. She's the one who is really being the most effected by the journey, creating memories of this one instant in her life where her and her friends are exploring all of Kalos and learning what it's like to be a Pokemon trainer. Her most prominent battles are her first and last battles with the player. The first one shows she's so busy having fun with her new Pokemon that she completely ignores the battle going on and gets angry you cut the battle short by winning. At first it makes you think she's a ditz, but later interactions shows more it's a re-enforcement of why she's on this adventure and just got carried away by early excitement. He last battle shows how she has much improved since you're last battle having the pseudo legendary of the region on her team, the battle is not about winning or losing but showing how she has grown from the journey and how much she appreciates all of our friendship.
 
Though I agree with most of the points raised by the last posts, I think the "jerk" rivals being the more popular ones is correlation rather than causation. The rivals who are generally considered jerks for whatever reason tend to be the ones with the highest amount of story involvement: Blue is the Champion of the region and is pretty much the only familiar face you see at different locations in the region; Silver is Giovanni's son and has a special investment in the story of taking on Team Rocket as a result, often showing up at climactic parts of the story such as Radio Tower; Hugh is the catalyst for the entire story of BW2, with his personal antagonism toward Team Plasma putting you the player in situations where you find out what's really going on, such as when you and Cheren follow him onto the Team Plasma headquarters ship at the Pokémon World Tournament; and Gladion it goes without saying has heavy story involvement, originally being staged as a part of the enemy before later coming round to your side. Your exposition to all of these characters in situations that actually feel important to the player and the wider context of the adventure makes them a lot more memorable to players, as the characters are only one part of a larger, more significant whole -- and therefore the player is thinking about the interactions they had with those particular rival characters quite often throughout the story.

I think this theory serves to offer an explanation as to why Barry and to an extent Dawn are the most popular of the friendlier rivals. They also have really heavy story involvement, such as when the three of you team and split up to investigate one of the three lakes of the region each, and you actually fight in a multi battle WITH both of them at different points in the story (Dawn twice, and Barry once but right at the climax) which makes them extremely memorable and in some ways endearing.

Compare that with the friendly rivals. Brendan/May to my recollection never even meets the villainous team, and the extent of your interaction with them is "Hey [player]! Have you been filling out your PokéDex? Let me see!" phrased in various different ways throughout the adventure. Dawn has the same function, but then a lot more content and characterisation on top of it as a result of her further story involvement. This just leaves Brendan/May deathly forgettable, especially because the one way they could have saved the character -- giving them a truly challenging team that you battle at a climax to make for at least one really intense, memorable moment -- never happens and is given to Wally instead.

Wally himself has the makings of a good character but you only see him three times during the adventure. Once in the catching tutorial, which let's be real most players turn off for, which is where you get introduced to his defining character trait of "he's weak lol". Then you fight him outside the third gym, where the character development of "he's still weak lol but he's gonna TRAIN and BEAT YOU" occurs. And then you don't see him for 5 more badges and an entire evil team takedown until the end of Victory Road, where he gets the climactic rival battle for the adventure before the Champion. If we actually got to witness Wally's progression over the course of the adventure I think he would be a beloved fan favourite, his accruing of personal strength that he then bestows upon his team training them up too is an endearing story in concept. Hell, he could have even had story involvement, using saving the world from Team Magma/Aqua as his motivation for cultivating that personal growth -- because his growing strong has impacts that are far bigger than him. The issue is he had to try and share the spotlight with Brendan/May, and even though you only see him three times during the adventure he still overshadows his counterpart, which goes to show the missed potential.

Cheren in BW is portrayed really dubiously, half of the time as a kind-hearted friend and half of the time as a self-involved "IMMA BE THE CHAMPION :(" character, and I think it gets lost in translation. I accredit this to the heavy lathering of "truth vs ideals" the story writers tried to put into BW, where Cheren was supposed to represent one of them and Bianca the other (to this day I'm still unclear which is which and feel like Bianca actually encompasses both concepts better than Cheren). This made him a really weird mix of in some ways a jerk character, but you're already established childhood friends with him so you can't hate him because he has your back, you just don't like talking to him. Plus, the pacing with Cheren is extremely top-heavy -- most of your interaction with him occurs at the start of the story to a suffocating degree, and then it trails off until you fight him at Victory Road. I think he also turns up at Dragonspiral Tower and so has some story involvement, but he has no special stake in the events of the plot like Silver and Hugh do, nor does he actually accomplish anything by turning up there because he's accompanied by a team of Gym Leaders who fight Team Plasma for him.

Bianca from my experience is one of the more popular less friendly rivals because they actually gave her a full-bodied characterisation. Pokémon is a kids' game at heart and so even seeing fairly routine things like a teenager arguing with her parents can leave a lasting impression -- that NEVER happens in Pokémon games, the only other occasions of it happening being the extra piece of dialogue between Silver and Giovanni added in HGSS, and in Sun & Moon with Lusamine and her children.. Even more impressively is that both Bianca and her unnamed father get full character arcs, where the player has sympathy for both characters, but that the player witnessing the long-lasting effects of Bianca's Father's overprotectiveness still makes the player side with Bianca in the end. It's a really well done character arc that needed way better pacing to be effective. You can optionally visit Bianca's house right at the start of the adventure to have the character arc set up, and then the rest of the arc happens in one massive conversation in Nimbasa City. If they stretched it out over the course of the journey, I think Bianca would be a fan-favourite. As it is, it was just a missed opportunity, and Bianca has little involvement in the game outside of it.

However, a character who the other posts have left out is N. N is the real rival of BW, and is possibly the most popular rival in the history of the series. N also is not a jerk. He starts out on the opposing side, like Gladion, but from the player's very first meeting with them it is made very clear that N has an affinity for the player and not an antagonism. Sure he fights you, but because he wants to examine you as a trainer and hear your Pokémon's account of what it's like to be cared for by a truly kind trainer -- N frankly has no intention of beating you at this point, and it's unclear if he ever actually wants to beat you in a battle until Ghetsis' manipulation of him reaches even more dangerous levels. Eventually he also gets a full redemption arc. N is a shining example of a full-bodied, well-paced and -written character that doesn't have to be a jerk to be endearing, and is actually more endearing as a result of his initial victimhood, but also player relatability as a result of his express compassion toward Pokémon, combined with his development of inner strength over the story. It also goes without saying that he has heavy plot involvement, being actually the most central figure to the story arguably moreso than Ghetsis.

XY rivals were caricatures and that doesn't work for the character who you're meant to have grown with over the course of the journey, because none of them get any growth. At the start of the journey Trevor sets out to complete his PokéDex and then by the end he is still trying to complete it. Dancing guy likes dancing at the start of the adventure and by the end of it likes dancing. Serena has a little bit of plot relevance -- she's there when the player receives mega-evolution, and was originally going to be the only character of the 5 who ended up with them to receive a Pokémon but the player's mum is famous so Prof Sycamore just decided to give out 4 more rare Pokémon. Shauna has the closest thing to a character arc, but she has Wally syndrome of where you only see the checkpoints of the arc and not the actual work and living that went into reaching those checkpoints, plus the overall conclusion is a little ambiguous in what it actually is. They were just written badly, and had little to do with Team Flame (who are admittedly one of the weaker teams anyway which gave the rivals an even harder attempt to stand out).

Hau is, as others said, just a wet blanket. You see him eating enchiladas sometimes, and he battles you once in a blue moon. No further progression, no real plot involvement other than that he's the son of Hala but their relationship is never explored. The game would be no different if Hau wasn't in it -- have the player character fight Lillie instead and change her characterisation a bit, and it would be exactly the same. That's not what you want out of a rival (I'd like to point out this is also true for Brendan/May or Wally, Cheren, and 3 of the 4 XY rivals).

tl;dr So I think that's your answer. It's actually little to do with whether the character is a jerk or not, but rather just how involved the character is to the plot and/or the player. I think the original premise was faulty because Barry and N are as popular as the 4 jerk rivals we've had and they're not jerks, but I agree that in general the nice rivals have the most potential to be forgotten about. I think it could be put down to nothing more than the more time and investment that's being put into the story of the game as a whole, the more is also being put into the rival, and making your rival(s) just a nice friend who doesn't do much is almost the default for games which haven't had much focus on plot. This means that there aren't as many climaxes for those rivals to be involved in, or that the climaxes they are involved in the player simply cares about less because the plot has been less enticing as a whole, which leads to fewer pressurised environments with which to develop a true relationship between the player and rival characters. All of the 6 rival characters who are head and shoulders above the others (Blue, Silver, Barry, N, Hugh, and Gladion) have specific memorable climaxes over the course of the journey that stay with the player. The other rivals don't have those, with the exception of perhaps Wally and Bianca, where the issue is moreso that the player hasn't seen the events leading up to the climax and so simply cares less.

Edit: Apparently Hau likes malasadas not enchiladas and dancing guy who likes dancing is called Tierno. Who knew, who cared. That's very much case in point.
 
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How do the purification chamber and the miror radar work in Pokemon XD?

Is it waiting, battling, walking, or something else?
 
How do the purification chamber and the miror radar work in Pokemon XD?

Is it waiting, battling, walking, or something else?
As far as I know there isn't a concrete answer, but I've played through XD many times and I believe the Purification Chamber is dependent on steps while the Miror Radar triggers based on steps but once triggered is a time limit before it goes away rather than a step limit, same as for PokéStops. The reason I say this is because if you leave the game running without doing anything in it, the Miror Radar and PokéStops won't be triggered, and the Purification Chamber won't make any progress. However, if you accept a Miror Radar or PokéStop notification and then leave the game running with no inputs, you'll eventually get a notification saying you missed the opportunity.

It's possible it's also a combination of battling and walking in all cases, as sometimes notifications trigger straight after battle.
 

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Orange Islands
How do the purification chamber and the miror radar work in Pokemon XD?

Is it waiting, battling, walking, or something else?
It's mostly walking. In you're playing XD and willing to abuse a small glitch, you can leave your console running and get "free" steps. The large circular area before the Pyramid Place (idr the names, its been years), the "bottom" of that circle (as in directly "south") is a glitchy step zone. You should be able to walk at the wall there and gain steps. If you push your control stick up, pull out the controller and resit it with the button held, it centers on that part, and it thinks the idle position of the controller is "Down". You can now walk in the "corner" (the screen should shake a bit). Come back every 10 minutes, or when it buzzes. You unplug/replug the controller to reset its center and go do what you need to do/check purification etc.

Worked for me, but this was like 5+ years ago now the last time I did it, so my memory might be hazy! I am sure there will be youtube videos on it though. Bear in mind that this way I think its almost faster to keep some unpurified mons in your party as those steps count towards their total purification too.
 

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