ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

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Pikachuun

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hey, if you DESPERATELY need a Regice/Vigoroth/Anything-Offensive-but-not-a-ghost Counter, then here it is:
FEAR (Ratata) Focus sash
whatever
- Endeavor
- Quick Attack
- lol
- moar lol
Can't hard-switch in for free on your whatever without dying/losing sash so not a counter.

If anything, it's more of a check, but even that is stretching it.
 

EV

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so um anyone wanna battle
You'll have better success finding matches on the simulator in the Other Metas room. Try not to ask for them in the thread. Instead, talk about the metagame itself and share any replays of battles you've had.
 

Gary

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Okay so I really love this metagame, but it's complete shit right now because of fucking tweedle dee (Regice) and tweedle dum (Vigoroth) still being present in the tier. Between the two of them, they make creative team building almost impossible at this point, just because every "good" FU team is more cookie cutter than early XY OU stall; Regice check / Vigoroth stop / hazard remover / possibly another check to regice or vigoroth, and then possibly a vigoroth or Regice of your own. It's an incredibly unhealthy metagame at the moment and so many Pokemon/playstyles are made unviable because of these dominant forces. I guess I'll spend the rest of this post explaining why these Pokemon are ruining the meta, seeing as how I have nothing better to do atm.

Exhibit A:



Regice was, and always will be the ice king of FU. Even if it gets banned, FU will never be able to fill in the gigantic holes it has left while its been here. I bet, no, I GUARANTEE the meta will be almost unrecognizable with Regice's departure. That's just influential this Pokemon is.

For example, every single special attacker in this tier that isn't named Simisear is automatically considered a liability if your opponent is packing a Regice. Think about, what special attacker can actually reliably beat this thing? The only thing FU has is Life Orb Nasty Plot Simisear, which doesn't even come close to OHKOing it with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock, and on top of that, it's easily 2HKOed by Thunderbolt. So if rocks are up on your side of the field and Simisear uses a Life Orb Fire Blast against a relatively healthy Regice, it's going to be left with barely above 20% after all that damage is added up, meaning it can't even switch in again. Fantastic. Then you have sweepers like Butterfree, Swoobat, Simisage, Simipour, and Misdreavus which are almost pointless to use because they can't sweep as along as this thing is around. For example I remember how much of a fucking beast NP Misdreavus was at the beginning of this meta. Even though the meta has adapted a lot in general since then, Regice's ability to completely wall that set to hell and back keeps players from wanting to use it. Frogadier has the capability of being a fantastic offensive Pokemon in the current meta, but why use it if it can't help you beat Regice? In order to beat Regice, you need to hit it physically. Machoke is by far the best offensive answer to Regice because of its insane bulk and relatively good power. It's also a great Pokemon in general, so it's not hard to fit it on most offensive or balanced teams. The main problem with Machoke is that it has no recovery outside of Rest, which means that you have to play very carefully around Regice in order to preserve it, and if the opponent happens to have a good switch into Machoke, than it's going to get worn down VERY easily. The same goes for the equally has viable Metang, however unless it's running max SpD it's almost 2HKOed by a Life Orb Focus Blast.

So basically we have one special attacker that can kind of beat Regice, and a select few unreliable physical attackers that are all easy to wear down and wall with the help of teammates. The offensive RestTalk set is not only incredibly bulky, but also hard to switch into because of its 100 base SpA and boltbeam coverage. The Rock Polish sets with Focus Blast beat a few more Pokemon that would normally check it (Lairon, Gigalith, Scraggy) and on top of that it finds a billion opportunities to set up a Rock Polish because all it has to do is come in for free on a special attacker, and offensive teams have very little they can do to stop it.

All in all Regice should be banned (not suspected, but banned) because it heavily hinders team building, it makes 80% of FU's special attackers almost unviable, and it requires you to pack an unnecessary amount of checks to it in order to succeed. You know it's bad when a Pokemon is a really good answer to itself lol. Please god no more Regice vs Regice end matchups.

Exhibit B


Vigoroth @ Eviolite
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Return
- Slack Off

While Regice may be the king of FU, it's safe to say that Vigoroth is FU Jesus. Jokes aside though, Regice is broken, but Vigoroth is just plain ridiculous. Never have I seen a Pokemon single handedly turn a tier into a cesspool of shit. Even with Regice in the tier, FU was still playable. Once this thing was discovered, the tier pretty much went full retard and now every team is dedicated to either beating Vigoroth or sweeping with Vigoroth. The set listed above has the capability of 6-0 every team archetype in FU against with very little effort. All you have to do is Taunt the occasional phazer/status user, spam Bulk Up, Slack Off when needed, win. And it's not that simple to check Vigoroth either. The monkeys are doing only about 60ish percent with a Life Orb Focus Blast, and other really powerful special attackers such as Regice, Seviper, and Specs Electabuzz can just be stalled out of Life Orb recoil/PP. And then you have hard counters like Metang and Lairon, which find themselves being complete set up bait. Even if its Eviolite is Knocked off, its still able to tank hits like a champ and set up in your face. The ONLY way to beat Vigoroth is to either set up with your own Vigoroth first, or use a Ghost-type such as Gourgeist-S, Lampent, or Misdreavus, as they are immune to its only attacking move. However, only a fool would pass up on the opportunity to pair Vig with Scarf Krokorok, which just so happens to carry a move called Pursuit, therefore removing your one and only saving grace.

I'll leave this here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-172639096

And yes, I have played a few matches with these mother fuckers banned, and I must say it's one of my favorite metas I think I've ever played. There's just so much diversity, creativity, and interesting strategies that can be exploited in this tier, however as long as Vigoroth and Regice are in this tier, it will forever be comparable to an RBY Ubers meta where every match is just you trying to beat the opposing Mewtwo, except in this case its Vigoroth and Regice.
 
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i Think there is a counter to regice and that counter is clefairy


Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 4 SpA / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Fire Blast

Anyway this set is pretty good at countering regice. it can calm mind in front of regice face. after a calm mind boost, regice can't Hit it very hard. soft boiled is there for recovery. moonblast is to hit dark and fighting types for SE damage. fire blast is there to hit regice very hard. outside of being a regice counter, it can set up in fraxure locked into outrage. it can also wall zwelius which is amazing. so yah i hope you try this out for yourselves.

PU replay: the gooey kirby vs. motherword - Pokémon Showdown An example of what clefairy can do to a team unprepared
 
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Agreed. Reasons I stay away from this meta for a while and started with PU instead.

However, you are wrong in that Nasty Plot Misdreavus cannot break Regice. At +2, Misdreavus 2HKO's Regice after Rocks with Power Gem, assuming a 252 HP/0 SDef spread on Regice.
 
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Don Honchkrorleone

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I'd talk about Murkrow and how awesome it is, but I have something better to share (I'll post about it later, for anything ask Halcyon. on how Murkrow works on FU)

So, since I have an itch that Regice and Vigoroth might be banned soon, I think Fraxure will be probably (alongside Swoobat) the next broken thing. And trying to find something to deal with the Dragon, I came around something I'm surprised no one even talked about:



Behold the bulkiest physically defensive Fairy not named Carbink in entire FU metagame: Spritzee! At first one may ask: Why use this shit when Clefairy and Wigglytuff exist? The answer is: Bulk. Awesome physical bulk (by FU standards) with a blessed type which allows Spritzee to check very dangerous threats such as Zweilous, Fraxure, Krokorok, Murkrow and among others. Another difference between Spritzee and Clefairy is in the ability. While Magic Guard is excellent, on a support Pokemon, Aroma Veil is much better due to the threat of Taunt and Encore. Spritzee can even deal with Vigoroth by poisoning the monkey and stall out with Wish + Protect. Spritzee is a victim of all Fairies' problems, named Arbok, Simisear and Steel-types, and mono-attacking Moonblast is not that powerful (still more powerful than Clefairy by 3 points and IT ACTUALLY GETS CM TOO though Clefairy is probably better on that way)

forgot CottoBAN ME PLEASE!, but it's still less bulky

+6 0 Atk Vigoroth Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 238-282 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (It'll go soon but just to demonstrate how bulky Spritzee is)
+1 252 Atk Krokorok Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 118-139 (32.8 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 135-159 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 138-164 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 146-174 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Machoke Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 106-126 (29.5 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (I actually use it)
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 205-243 (57.1 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 140-165 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock



Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic / Heal Bell
- Moonblast

This is what I think is the best Spritzee set, and kinda straightforward. It also can TR and CM, though I didn't tested them to see how they fare. Still worth a shot.
 
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Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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Yeah Murkrow is a fucking monster and works similarly to Thundurus in OU. Hits like a truck and works as a failsafe against setup sweepers. One of my favorite Pokemon in FU at the moment for sure. Dark STAB is really good, and it's Brave Bird backed by LO is handled only by stuff like Lairon and Gigilith, which are certainly not difficule to beat. Metang can't hurt it without Toxic since it has Sucker Punch. Speaking of which, Murkrow works as an amazing check to non-Sub Swoobat (although if it has sub but isn't behind one, you can just t wave it), which is bound to gain some popularity once Regice gets the fuck out of FU. But having a way to stop a Fraxure/Arbok/Dragonair/Scraggy/whatever sweep with T wave is always awesome for offensive teams, and like I said, having a massively powerful Brave bird doesn't hurt either.

252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 126-149 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Rip :[
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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Agreed. Reasons I stay away from this meta for a while and started with PU instead.

However, you are wrong in that Nasty Plot Misdreavus cannot break Regice. At +2, Misdreavus 2HKO's Regice after Rocks with Power Gem, assuming a 252 HP/0 SDef spread on Regice.
But NP Misdreavus doesn't really have room for Power Gem lol. One of Misdreavus' biggest selling points is that it has a fast Wisp, which lets it not only check dangerous physical attackers such as Fraxure and Arbok, but it also has other really cool support moves like Heal Bell, Taunt, and even Destiny Bond which lets it suicide against shit it can't for sure OHKO. On top of that you need to leave room for Shadow Ball obviously, and you need to have either T-Bolt for bulky Water-types or Dazzling Gleam to actually stand a chance against Zweilous and Scraggy. It's just really hard to justify giving up a really good support move or coverage move in order to hit ONE Pokemon, although it doesn't surprise me people are using it seeing as how dominating Regice is. Nevertheless if you're using Power Gem NP Misdreavus, then I'd probably recommend to either use something else, or pair it with something that can beat Regice. Or just not use NP Misdreavus at all until Regice leaves LOL.
 

tennisace

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i don't have time to run this metagame because reasons, so i'm passing it off to Gary2346 and Imanalt. they're going to be running a suspect test asap as far as i know. i'll still hang out and play this meta though :>
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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Yeah we decided that Vigoroth and Regice are just going to get the straight ban hammer. I already explained why I personally think they should have banned, but I will let some of my other council members give their reasoning as well.

With those mother lovers out of this tier, I'm honestly really excited to see just how much this meta will improve and how creative team building can get. If anything else questionable comes up and we want to potentially suspect it I'll let you guys know. For now though, enjoy the meta!
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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Ok so first thing's first, in case you didn't know, Gary2346 has named the members of his council for FU. They are Imanalt, Molk, Don Honchkrorleone, and The Jaiho, with me as a co-leader. If you have any questions about the recent Regice/Vigoroth quick bans or FU in general, please feel free to PM us.

Anyway I want to talk about what I believe the bans mean for FU and where the tier will most likely go. I've played a ton of matches in just the few hours since the bans became official, but already I can feel the vast differences between what's viable and what isn't. The tier really has expanded quite a bit in terms of possibilities. Some of the changes are a bit more obvious than others. For starters, every match isn't completely centered around a Vigoroth sweep. Before, any Pokemon that let Vigoroth set up was a huge liability and you needed at least two checks to beat it. Now there are no such restrictions. Similarly, Regice being gone means that many special attackers that were once considered bad can now have an opportunity to shine. Swoobat returns as a terrifying sweeper, the Monkey trio are all extremely potent Scarf, Specs, and NP users that no longer HAVE to run Focus Blast for coverage. Futhermore, you don't need a Machoke on every team just to check it. Nope, team building seems a lot more free right now. But that could just be the relative newness of the tier after two hugely restrictive Pokemon have left. As its tsands, I'm still seeing a lot of bulky offense & balance, some hyper offense, and little stall. This makes sense, since we just came out of a very bulky meta, so it's what we're used to. I think a tier like FU just sort of lends itself to the bulky offense style, since we have so many bulky Pokemon thanks to Eviolite and some incredibly powerful threats like Zweilous and Fraxure and Swoobat, which obviously all need to be checked. This is easier to do with BO then HO, since HO will have trouble actually breaking through the defensive cores of BO. Anyway, enough acronyms, the point is I'm having a lot of fun right now.

However, this is NOT to say that the tier is perfect, or that every broken Pokemon has been dealt with. Between Swoobat, Sawsbuck, Fraxure, Arbok, Krok, the Monkeys, and a whole host of new and amazing Pokemon being discovered every day, there is a ton to prepare for. We'll be keeping an eye on what's powerful and what's possibly too powerful and keeping you updated. Make sure to check out the Viability Rankings (link is in the OP) and update it as needed.

Thanks guys and hope you're all enjoying FU as much as I am n_n
 
I played many FU matches from the day here and i got to say with regice and Vigoroth gone. The tier is actually diverse. A lot of special attackers are better. i just found that quilava is actually good here. so i think a choice scarf set can wok out for quilava


Quilava @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Extrasensory

Now i now what you are thinking. Why would you use this piece of crap when you have simisear. Well quilava has eruption. Which combined with a choice scarf. Becomes a pretty good user of it like typhlosion in nu. Fire blast is for when you are low on health and does a ton to steel and grass types. hidden power grass is to hit Simipour and frogadier. extrassensory is to hit fighting and poiosn types. Choice scarf Quilava is a pretty great revenge killer and i really hope you enjoy this metagame
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I played many FU matches from the day here and i got to say with regice and Vigoroth gone. The tier is actually diverse. A lot of special attackers are better. i just found that quilava is actually good here. so i think a choice scarf set can wok out for quilava


Quilava @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Extrasensory

Now i now what you are thinking. Why would you use this piece of crap when you have simisear. Well quilava has eruption. Which combined with a choice scarf. Becomes a pretty good user of it like typhlosion in nu. Fire blast is for when you are low on health and does a ton to steel and grass types. hidden power grass is to hit Simipour and frogadier. extrassensory is to hit fighting and poiosn types. Choice scarf Quilava is a pretty great revenge killer and i really hope you enjoy this metagame
Here are the problems I have with Quilava:

Eruption is definitely the main selling point of Quilava>Simisear, but while it's a pretty good STAB option--being powerful as fuck as far as moves go--coming off of 80 special attack makes it pretty meh. This is especially so when it isn't backed by Specs. This is further problematic when you realize how good the hazard setters (Pineco, Dwebble, Quilladin, Roserade, Metang, Magcargo, Stunfisk, Gigalith, etc.) are in FU versus the removers (Swanna Articuno and what...Starmie? Tentacool?) I mean, just about every bulky Pokemon can deal with Quilava in one way or another. You're forced to run Jolly if you want to be a true revenge killer, since you only speed tie with Swoobat (but you can't even do anything to it at +2 anyway so I don't know what you're revenging) and you're outsped by Jolly Krok. But obviously this comes at the price of your already pitiful special attack. HP Grass isn't even close to an OHKO on Simipour, Extrasensory does NOTHING to Tentacool (252+ SpA Quilava Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Tentacool: 68-80 (23.9 - 28.1%) -- 90.8% chance to 4HKO...like, what?) nor Machoke (252+ SpA Quilava Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). And this doesn't even begin to talk about stuff like Politoed. Hell, you even lose to ARTICUNO 1v1 (and before you ask, no, Fire Blast only has about a 7% chance to 2HKO Articuno). I mean, just going by this stuff alone, it seems like Quilava isn't really suited for the bulky meta that exists at the moment. If, in the future, the meta turns more hyper offensive, then maybe Quilava will be decent (although HO means SW, and Quilava does not do so well at -1 Speed, but whatever). But for now, I just don't see it as being that useful.
 
I'm curious, Halcyon, what are your primary concerns about Starmie, seeing as you're saying it's a questionable Rapid Spinner? I remember it had a real golden age some time long forgotten by many of us...
 

Molk

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I'd talk about Murkrow and how awesome it is, but I have something better to share (I'll post about it later, for anything ask Halcyon. on how Murkrow works on FU)

So, since I have an itch that Regice and Vigoroth might be banned soon, I think Fraxure will be probably (alongside Swoobat) the next broken thing. And trying to find something to deal with the Dragon, I came around something I'm surprised no one even talked about:



Behold the bulkiest physically defensive Fairy not named Carbink in entire FU metagame: Spritzee! At first one may ask: Why use this shit when Clefairy and Wigglytuff exist? The answer is: Bulk. Awesome physical bulk (by FU standards) with a blessed type which allows Spritzee to check very dangerous threats such as Zweilous, Fraxure, Krokorok, Murkrow and among others. Another difference between Spritzee and Clefairy is in the ability. While Magic Guard is excellent, on a support Pokemon, Aroma Veil is much better due to the threat of Taunt and Encore. Spritzee can even deal with Vigoroth by poisoning the monkey and stall out with Wish + Protect. Spritzee is a victim of all Fairies' problems, named Arbok, Simisear and Steel-types, and mono-attacking Moonblast is not that powerful (still more powerful than Clefairy by 3 points and IT ACTUALLY GETS CM TOO though Clefairy is probably better on that way)

forgot CottoBAN ME PLEASE!, but it's still less bulky

+6 0 Atk Vigoroth Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 238-282 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (It'll go soon but just to demonstrate how bulky Spritzee is)
+1 252 Atk Krokorok Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 118-139 (32.8 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 135-159 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 138-164 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 146-174 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Machoke Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 106-126 (29.5 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (I actually use it)
252+ Atk Choice Band Relicanth Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 205-243 (57.1 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 140-165 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock



Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic / Heal Bell
- Moonblast

This is what I think is the best Spritzee set, and kinda straightforward. It also can TR and CM, though I didn't tested them to see how they fare. Still worth a shot.
I can attest to Spritzee being a pretty solid option in FU, and i've seen many a person struggle to break through it in the matches i've seen/played. Its stats might not look like much at first, but damn is it good at what it does x.x. despite its seemingly low 78/60/65 defenses, its hit taking ability with Eviolite is deceptively high, and Fairy is certainly a good enough defensive typing to back all of that up, giving it valuable resistances to Dark, Fighting, and Dragon-type moves that let it take on really big threats such as Krokorok, Fraxure, Machoke, Zweilous and more!. Outside of simply walling things, Spritzee is pretty good at supporting its team too considering its decently sized Wish and access to Aromatherapy, making it a pretty valuable addition to pretty much every playstyle that isn't heavy offense imo. As Don mentioned Aroma Veil is a big plus too, as an immunity to both Taunt and Encore is absolutely invaluable on a Pokemon like Spritzee that's dedicated to supporting its team (this along with raw stats is what helps Spritz seperate itself from Clefairy). I just wish the thing had a bit more offensive presence =/.

To close this post off, i'll just leave you guys with a calc that shows just how good Spritzee is at taking hits.

+4 252 Atk Life Orb Huntail Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 286-337 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Also, Sliggoo seems like a good option, Halycon. has more experience with it though so i'll let him post
 
I'm curious, Halcyon, what are your primary concerns about Starmie, seeing as you're saying it's a questionable Rapid Spinner? I remember it had a real golden age some time long forgotten by many of us...
I don't really see why you'd use Staryu over Tentacool. Staryu pretty much is only there to spin away hazards while Tentacool offers a lot more utility in Knock Off and Toxic Spikes.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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umm starmie isnt FU
He's making fun of the fact that I said Starmie instead of Staryu in my post. But yeah Starmie is garbage. I used it when the tier first started because I thought the game would be centered around SW and it might make a good offensive spinner, but neither of those things is true. It's weak as all hell and SW is really not that good right now.
 
He's making fun of the fact that I said Starmie instead of Staryu in my post. But yeah Starmie is garbage. I used it when the tier first started because I thought the game would be centered around SW and it might make a good offensive spinner, but neither of those things is true. It's weak as all hell and SW is really not that good right now.
Again, Starmie isn't FU.
 

Jaiho

bandy legged troll
FU didn't exist when you were a child (I'm assuming)
zzz, he is clearly saying he accidentally says starmie instead of staryu a lot. Please stop trying to be funny/dumb, its just plain annoying. Can we get back to FU discussion please?

To make this post not pointless, I'll say that a really powerful playstyle atm is sun. With solid setters like Volbeat and Meowstic-m, as well as amazing abusers like Victreebell, Sawsbuck, Sunflora, Simisear, and even Tropius, sun is not to be trifled with. Volbeat actually does a solid job of setting up sunny days multiple times a match, and supports well with encore to prevent it from becoming set-up bait, and a slow u-turn to set one's sweepers in easily. Victreebell is great in particular since it is extremely diverse, able to go full special, full physical, and mixed, as well as having a free slot to do whatever. The only problem I've found so far is hazard removal, but honestly you are making so few switches a match that it isn't even necessary, just an added bonus.

Fuck UU drought ban, Vulpix sun would've been so fun to play, even if broke ;;;
 
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