OU Stats - December 2012

[masterful]

Please just let Infernape die. It's not good. It's certainly not better than fuckin Keldeo. At least Metagross is only 44, but even that is too high for a poke that is a worse version of so many other pokes.

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

masterful said:

Please just let Infernape die. It's not good. It's certainly not better than fuckin Keldeo. At least Metagross is only 44, but even that is too high for a poke that is a worse version of so many other pokes.

Sadly, the players using Infernape will probably never read this thread lol

 

[RaikouLover]

masterful said:

Please just let Infernape die. It's not good. It's certainly not better than fuckin Keldeo. At least Metagross is only 44, but even that is too high for a poke that is a worse version of so many other pokes.

No, Metagross is quite unique actually. Bulky attacking tank that can SR. It also has superior coverage to other bulky steels.

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

RaikouLover said:

No, Metagross is quite unique actually. Bulky attacking tank that can SR. It also has superior coverage to other bulky steels.

It has access to pursuit, explosion, ice punch and trick too, which is cool as fuck. I honestly don't know why everyone seems to bash on poor metagrawss. He's not going to be sweeping teams like it did in gen4 but it can still fill useful niches. It's also a great answer to Tornadus-T (252/160 takes max 33% from LO Hurricane and can Pursuit or Ice Punch / Meteor Mash to rack dem damages up).

 

[moonbase]

Wait, wait,wait. Why is everyone hating on Infernape. It is pretty much the greatest sun abuser in OU. It has arguably the 2 best STAB moves in the game, it has U turn, which Terrakion does not have, and it has access to friggin fake out. What is wrong with it???????? It is essentially a sun version of keldeo. Someone please explain this to me.

Edit : oh yea, it even has Mach punch

 

[Kidogo]

Well, rain is omnipresent, weakening its fire moves. It is outsped by a lot of prominent threats and is pretty frail, so it can't even take a hit. It's not quite strong enough to bust through teams, and if it tries to set up it usually will get KOed. Keldeo has way better defenses than nape, a base 129 SpA, better STAB coverage, and thrives in the dominant weather atm.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

moonbase said:

Wait, wait,wait. Why is everyone hating on Infernape. It is pretty much the greatest sun abuser in OU. It has arguably the 2 best STAB moves in the game, it has U turn, which Terrakion does not have, and it has access to friggin fake out. What is wrong with it???????? It is essentially a sun version of keldeo. Someone please explain this to me.

Edit : oh yea, it even has Mach punch

1. it can't do much of anything vs offensive teams due its low speed and frailty, Infernape can't 1HKO much of anything without boosts either, which it is not getting in this metagame
2. all it can do is wall break then, but pretty much any team with a defensive core has an infernape counter or a solid infernape check naturally
3. outside of that, again it can't even provide most team support because its defenses suck

Compare that to Terrakion, which can with just 2 moves (as opposed to 4 slot move syndrome infernape) break through defensive cores and possibly sweep. Terrakion also nicely takes hits from Volcarona making a nice check to it. Even Keldeo can possibly sweep, or wall break teams with STAB hydro pump in the rain, defensive teams have issues with it if they lack a direct counter. Keldeo also have not that shaby defenses and resists rocks, so it can take a hit or 2.

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

moonbase said:

Wait, wait,wait. Why is everyone hating on Infernape. It is pretty much the greatest sun abuser in OU.

Ahem

Seriously now, 104/104 offensess aren't that great when compared to OU mons in similar speed tiers - Keldeo/Terrak boast 129, and Keldeo can also hit from both sides. Darmanitan and Victini outclass it on Sun because a Sheer Force STAB 120 BP move coming from 140 base attack and a 180 BP STAB move off 100 base attack are as terryfing as they sound. Even freaking Mienshao has similar perks (U-turn, usable SpA) and more (125 attack, regenerator) and he dropped to UU!

I honestly think Infernape only stays OU because his current analysis makes him look like a freaking god.

Being the monkey it is, Infernape had always been able to swing its way into DPP's top tier Pokemon list, and although it's received a bit of competition this generation, Infernape is still not to be overlooked as a huge offensive threat. This is courtesy of its amazing stat layout and movepool, which enable Infernape to attack both physically and specially. From being a wallbreaker to abusing Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, or Work Up, Infernape's great offensive capabilities will continue to make it shine even when faced with many of the new Pokemon BW has brought to the competitive battling scene.

Reading those sentences makes me want to build a team around 'Nape. And that's bad, because 'Nape itself is bad.

 

[Arcticblast]

Infernape has base 104 attacking stats. It is too frail to make much use of them - Jirachi and Celebi have passable bulk, allowing them to boost, but Infernape can't take a hit to save its life. Its Mach Punch is extremely weak. Tornadus-T has U-Turn, higher stats everywhere but Attack, and Regenerator. Fire is an awful STAB to have in the current Rain-infested metagame. Its best STAB attack - Flare Blitz in the sun - kills it slowly. Even when you ignore this, far stronger Fire-types like Victini and Darmanitan do its job much better. All in all, Infernape doesn't have anything left going for it that something else can be doing much, much better.

Also, the best Sun abusers have Chlorophyll.

EDIT: damn, triple ninja'd...

 

[moonbase]

I respect all your guy's opinions, and the Smogon guide makes it seem like some sort of god, but none of you guys obviously ever played with Infernape extensively. Well, I take that back, as much as I played with it. Infernape hits the all important 108 speed tier, which is great. I also believe that nobody has talked about the monstrous scarf set. In the sun, it can 2 hit ko literally everything in OU without boosts. I know that I don't have as many posts as the OU brains that have tried to contradict me, but Infernape is a god in the sun, and in neutral weather. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself on a sun team. The mystery scarf set I talk about has stone edge, flare blitz, close combat, and u turn, I repeat try it out.

Btw: Infernape is not outclassed by victini or darmantan, because it is faster than both of them, and it actually has a usable dual stab unlike victini. Mono y mono, Infernape can beat both of them. Nuff said

 

[Ningildo]

moonbase said:

In the sun, it can 2 hit ko literally everything in OU without boosts. I know that I don't have as many posts as the OU brains that have tried to contradict me, but Infernape is a god in the sun, and in neutral weather. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself on a sun team. The mystery scarf set I talk about has stone edge, flare blitz, close combat, and u turn, I repeat try it out.

Btw: Infernape is not outclassed by victini or darmantan, because it is faster than both of them, and it actually has a usable dual stab unlike victini. Mono y mono, Infernape can beat both of them. Nuff said

Rain is everywhere, so good luck finding weatherless battles. Unless you're using sun (and can guard Ninetales against duggy), Infernape will battle under rain most of the time, and suck in it.

 

[Vemane]

moonbase said:

Btw: Infernape is not outclassed by victini or darmantan, because it is faster than both of them, and it actually has a usable dual stab unlike victini. Mono y mono, Infernape can beat both of them. Nuff said

252 Atk Victini (+Atk) Zen Headbutt vs 0 HP/0 Def Infernape: 108.53% - 127.99%
Guaranteed OHKO

or

252 Atk Victini (+Atk) V-create vs 0 HP/0 Def Infernape: 91.13% - 107.17%
43.75% chance to OHKO

and

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan (+Atk) Flare Blitz vs 0 HP/0 Def Infernape: 100% - 117.75%
Guaranteed OHKO


Those are both scarved by the way, so infernape doesn't outspeed.

 

[moonbase]

@Vemane

Try the calcs with a stone edge from 252 attack Infernape. Infernape being scarfed, so it can attack first. Another point of mine is that Infernape is not actually weak to stealth rocks unlike victini and darmantan. Also, as seen by the usage stats, which we are getting a bit off topic on, rain is used less than 20% of the time, so Infernape can actually do some work in normal situations.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

moonbase said:

I respect all your guy's opinions, and the Smogon guide makes it seem like some sort of god, but none of you guys obviously ever played with Infernape extensively. Well, I take that back, as much as I played with it. Infernape hits the all important 108 speed tier, which is great. I also believe that nobody has talked about the monstrous scarf set. In the sun, it can 2 hit ko literally everything in OU without boosts. I know that I don't have as many posts as the OU brains that have tried to contradict me, but Infernape is a god in the sun, and in neutral weather. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself on a sun team.

Btw: Infernape is not outclassed by victini or darmantan, because it is faster than both of them, and it actually has a usable dual stab unlike victini. Mono y mono, Infernape can beat both of them. Nuff said

As for Darmanitan, I don't know. I don't like him, but Victini has a lot of advantages. It's secondary STAB is still pretty usable. The reason why Victini don't use that is because most of things that you want to hit with Zen Headbutt are already hit pretty hard by either V-Create or by Bolt Strike. Not to mention that Psychic is not the best STAB to be choice-locked nowadays, with Tyranitar lurking on every corner, ready to Pursuit those that commit this fatal error. Victini don't need to use its Psychic-type STAB. Also, Victini actually has bulk, unlike Infernape, and has amazing resistances to Fighting-, Psychic-, Ice-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks. Infernape can pretty much die to most non-Bug-type attacks.

Even Terrakion is a better 108 base speed Pokémon for sun teams. Although it doesn't take advantage of sun (except if you consider that its weakness to Water is negated), Terrakion is bulkier and stronger, can defeat Heatran and Tyranitar much more easily than Infernape, and doesn't have its Rock-type STAB hindered by rain. Seriously, I just posted a sun team on RMT with Terrakion, it's so underused on those types of team and does a better job than any Infernape on this life.

Arcticblast said:

Infernape has base 104 attacking stats. It is too frail to make much use of them - Jirachi and Celebi have passable bulk, allowing them to boost, but Infernape can't take a hit to save its life. Its Mach Punch is extremely weak. Tornadus-T has U-Turn, higher stats everywhere but Attack, and Regenerator. Fire is an awful STAB to have in the current Rain-infested metagame. Its best STAB attack - Flare Blitz in the sun - kills it slowly. Even when you ignore this, far stronger Fire-types like Victini and Darmanitan do its job much better. All in all, Infernape doesn't have anything left going for it that something else can be doing much, much better

However, I disagree with this. Even with rain dominating the metagame, Fire is an amazing and important STAB to have. This is different from being a Fire-type, as Ice-type is another amazing STAB to have, yet you don't see many people using Ice-types. Being a Fire-type just hurt you most of time. Ah, I wish that there were Fire-types like Heatran, that would not be hindered by Rain... Seriously, Heatran is the only Fire-type that is easy to fit on a non-rain team as it has a lot of reasons to be used, other than its Fire STAB.

moonbase said:

@Vemane

Try the calcs with a stone edge from 252 attack Infernape. Infernape being scarfed, so it can attack first.

 

[RabidChipmunk]

moonbase said:

@Vemane

Try the calcs with a stone edge from 252 attack Infernape. Infernape being scarfed, so it can attack first. Another point of mine is that Infernape is not actually weak to stealth rocks unlike victini and darmantan.

Stone Edge OHKO's Darmanitan. However,

252 Atk Infernape Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Victini: 55.13% - 65.1% (2 hits to KO)

Infernape sucks.

 

[Arcticblast]

moonbase, I've used that exact Scarf set. Every time I use it, I end up wishing I was running Landorus, Mienshao or Terrakion. It just doesn't have the strength to hit very hard, and even under Sun you could probably get more mileage out of Terrakion.

Also, Infernape is one of the few physical Scarfers to not get a guaranteed OHKO on Volcarona with Stone Edge, and there are a ton of things it barely scratches that a better Scarfer or Fire-type could deal with.
252 Atk Infernape Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Volcarona: 364-432 (98.11 - 116.44%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Infernape Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 226-266 (68.27 - 80.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 252-296 (75.44 - 88.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And just for laughs:
252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Castform: 225-265 (79.78 - 93.97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magikarp: 174-205 (71.31 - 84.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yes, Stealth Rock turns some of these into occasional OHKOs, but you can't assume SR is always down. This should speak volumes about its lack of power.

EDIT: A smart person wouldn't be using Infernape.

 

[moonbase]

@RabidChipmunk

You got me there, but in the situation that victini is going to switch in a smart person would go for the U turn, just saying.

@Articblast

I still don't understand why you wouldn't use an all out sweeping volcarona, with quiver dance, Hp ground, bug buzz, and fiery dance, but you got a very valid point there.

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

moonbase said:

@RabidChipmunk

You got me there, but in the situation that victini is going to switch in a smart person would go for the U turn, just saying.

How nape performs against victini or darm is beside the point. Both outclass him entirely in sun teams.

 

[blitzlefan]

damn it multiple people beat me to the punch. but yes, i've used that exact set for Infernape (scarf) back in BW. Furthermore, I used a LO variant and EB variant, and at one point had Mach Punch and Thunder Punch (and Iron Fist) over Stone Edge and U-Turn. Pointis, I tried everything because I was convinced it was a boss (which it was back then). However, rain>>>>>>>>>>>>sun. As much as you try to run a sun team, rain has an inherent advantage over sun and the abusers are far too strong/plentiful for sun to keep up with. Furthermore, with only 104 offenses, its not going to be sweeping a team anytime soon, especially with the advent of the musketeers, resurgence of lati@s, etc and all those in a sexier speed tier.

 

[Organization Member XIV]

Excuse me, Jellicent #34. The arguably BEST Keldeo check in any tier is 14 places lower than it?! Do people not realize how much of a weakling Keldeo is when facing Jellicent? lol HP Electric and Ghost doing shit for the lose. That aside, Jellicent is still a great special wall with reliable recovery, a FAR better defensive typing than Blissey, the ability to spin-block, and being able to wall Terrakion choice-locked into CC or X-Scissor is pretty big. You could also run a weird Acid Armor set to be able to wall from both ends, and Choice Specs/Scarf Jellicent is a surprising threat. Needs to be at least top 20.

 

[Deglas]

Sciztar said:

What I'm suprised by why not 100 % of people are not using Ninetales Drought? Are they stupid? Heatran is a better Fire Flash user.
Ninetales | Abilities | | Drought 96.887% | | Other 3.113%

I fought one of these. Partnered with Charizard. And Flareon. And Infernape. And Sunflora. And a Venusaur that did nothing but faint.

A new low has been reached.

 

[moonbase]

The awesome stuff that gets used less than, I admit, the one trick monkey Infernape. C'mon you noobs both forms Landorus are used less than him, Jellicent, Thundy t, and friggin keldeo,which can be slapped onto most teams just like genesect. Also, you guys, Kyurem-black an awesome pokemon that is still getting less usage than ape, I'm willing to bet that more than 80% of the people that play ps are full blown noobs.


One last thing,Infernape is a niche pokemon in OU, it certainly does not deserve the kind of usage it's getting. I was arguing for it, because people on this thread were treating it like it was a friggin charizard. It definetly has a small niche in OU, unlike the lost child that belongs to no family in OU or ubers, of course being Deoxys.

My friend, we'll find you a home some day.

 

[zerohero]

ClubbingSealCub said:

Sadly, the players using Infernape will probably never read this thread lol

actually i read it lol
really i think its up to personal choice that they want him on his team. he is still a pretty good scout with a base of 108 speed and u-turn. rain still hampers him down but a fire blast/flare blitz will still k.o scizor, fortress(study broken of course) and ferrothorn.
imo its comes down if you use him in the correct way. not trying to face poiltoed and his water boosted friends

 

[TUO]

Infernape is a niche pokemon in OU. I believe that the SD Mach punch set or the sets with u-turn are the only real viable ones.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I think Infernape should only be used if running full volt turn and suddenly a wild ferrothorn/forretress appears. Standard Voltturn has nothing for them. It does happen to be the only fast U-turner with a "strong" fire-type attack.