I think people are being too hopeful- Complete Burn will most likely be a Fire-type OHKO and be banned due to the OHKO Clause. Of course, if it isn't... that could be interesting.
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Pokemon Black and White (SPECULATIONS ALLOWED HERE)
- Thread starter Great Sage
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Considering Darkrai got the move Dark Void, which is a better accuracy sleep inflicting move that hits both opponents, I could see Complete Burn doing the same thing except with the Burn status. This could make double battles much more oriented in special attacking for doubles (And triples) for whatever tier(Uber) Victini gets placed in.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
:) Spiritomb evo Anyone?
And i think incantation samurai
More special oriented : More Blissey. I would really like to see that pink blob less often. Only Special move I can think of that can take it out in two shots is a Modest Water Spout off Kyogre with Specs in Rain.
The way the metagame is now, Uber status is dubious for Victini. Stealth Rock and Pursuit weaknesses alongside the common Rock/Ground/Water weaknesses do not help it, despite it having a few useful resists. Burn is a much less severe and crippling status than Sleep (note the lack of "burn clause"), and I doubt Victory Star is another version of Bad Dreams.
Finally, we should remember that with the arrival of 5th gen, old suspects could easily drop back down. Nearly all of them serve as significant checks to Victini (Garchomp, Salamence, the Lati twins and Manaphy especially), and if they prove unbroken next gen, those are just more issues for Victini to deal with.
And personally, I can only see Complete Burn as a OHKO move now that some people mention it. Honestly, it is pretty much the only way to distinguish it from Plume/Flamethrower/Fire Blast and still have it not be a Sacred Fire clone.
Note that this applies only to 6/252 Calm Blissey. Such a specially defensive spread is unlikely to be seen in OU, so there will be other situations where Blissey is 2HKOd by special attacks (SubCMers ftw).
I don't know if this has been brought up yet or not, but I really do hope the two main Legendaries have great shiny sprites, and not basically useless ones like Dialga / Palkia. I mean more like Kyogre/Groudon/Mewtwo/Latios/Latias. A stark, immediately noticeable difference in color scheme.
I really hope Reshiram's Shiny Sprite is Black and Zekrom's is White. :3
I really hope Reshiram's Shiny Sprite is Black and Zekrom's is White. :3
I think various Mixed Attackers could get the job done in that department. Fire types are immune to the Burn status, so they might rise in use in Victini's tier if it becomes popular enough (And if the move really does what the theory suggests). Ho-oh probably won't be able to recover from Stealth Rock, but the new legendary Reshiram looks hopeful.
@icyMan28: In the end, I think it'll come down to Victini's movepool as a whole to see which placement it will get. It's certainly possible it won't be up to snuff for Ubers, but if Victini is dubbed too powerful for OU, then I don't think it really matters.
But Pursuit can't even 3HKO him and I'm sure people would pack something like HP Fighting or Focus Blast on their Vicktinis for just such a situation, making Scraftar a not-so-surefire counter. You don't switch ScarfTar into Gengar, do you? No, because 98% of them have Focus Blast, expecting you to switch in. Of course I'm just placing Vicktini into todays metagame and giving him a defensive build, so I could be way off base, but Pursuit still isn't that big of a problem since, like I said before, there probably aren't going to be better Pursuiters next gen. However, Rock and Ground weakness are pretty big (although Gyarados gets over his common Electric/Rock weaknesses pretty well).
Vicktini wouldn't be fast enough to pull it off unless he had a scarf, making him near useless in doubles. Darkrai has Base 125, meaning only scarf users, Ninjask, Crobat, Aerodactly, Mewtwo and Deoxys outspeed him. Vicktini has to worry about all the 101+ Base Speed Pokemon and Speed ties with the other dozens of Base 100's.
Long story short: Vicktini is too slow to pull this off, unlike Darkrai.
Fire types are hardly a good response, thanks to Stealth Rock (I sound like a broken record with this, but its true). I'd say bulky waters will remain the norm, as Leftovers lessens the impact of burn and they attack primarily on the special side (except maybe Swampert).
And its not that I think it'll stay OU because it isn't good enough for Ubers (lol Kyogre), it's that I think OU will be able to solidly deal with it. Of course, that's based on the current metagame, which will undoubtedly change.
Ah, I was assuming offensive Victini and you were assuming defensive. Regardless, that still leads to an inherent problem. Defensive fire types are garbage (just look at Torkoal and Magcargo), thanks to their SR weaknesses and Ground/Rock/Water weak. Defensive Victini might evade the 2HKO from Pursuit, but that just means it is switching into Rocks later, and, unlike Heatran, it doesn't bring along such a great slew of resistances to counterbalance these negatives. Furthermore, defensive Victini is a slow Victini, so ScarfTar will Stone Edge next time. None of the phantom legends so far even have access to Focus Blast (bar Mew, he's special), so it is resorting to Aura Sphere at best and isn't even guaranteed to have Recover.
If he is offensive like I'm assuming, ScarfTar and bulky waters become a bigger issue, and if he does get Recover, he will likely have less room for it on an offensive set. Solid counters for either path, it seems.
well it looks similar to blight so maybe...nooo blight is 10 times cooler because hes from okami ;):) Spiritomb evo Anyone?
And i think incantation samuraiWould be a sick idea for Ghost/Steel
Sounds like a sad truth in that department.
Lololagility.
@IcyMan28: Not necessarily. If Victini does end up in OU (Which seems likely, when you think about it.), than there are the likes of Infernape and Heatran which would laugh in the face of Complete Burn, as well as taking neutral damage to Stealth Rock. On the other hands, bulky waters also are a viable option to deal with the threat.
This would be cool, and not broken. Check, and check. Better than severe burn or anything similar.
Kinda just sounds like a 100% burn move. IE Dark Void.
Ubers has a number of Rock (Ho-Oh is quad weak) and Pursuit weak Pokemon so for Victini it would just be a matter of joining the club.
A lot really depends on his movepool and ability.
A number of the pixies learn Recovery moves and regardless of 'Incinerate' there should be the possibility of Will-o-wisp.
So there is a fair chance it will be able to work around its problems and be effective.
[BTW, another possibility for Victory Star [badge] is some kind of static stat boost like Pure or Huge Power giving it effectively more base stat points]
A lot really depends on his movepool and ability.
A number of the pixies learn Recovery moves and regardless of 'Incinerate' there should be the possibility of Will-o-wisp.
So there is a fair chance it will be able to work around its problems and be effective.
[BTW, another possibility for Victory Star [badge] is some kind of static stat boost like Pure or Huge Power giving it effectively more base stat points]
Here's a damage calc just for kicks. It assumes that Complete Burn is a 250 BP Special attack, complete with the side effect of lowering SpD by 2 stages:
328 SpA STAB Complete Burn vs. 252/0 Neutral Blissey: (80.67% - 94.96%)
299 LO STAB Complete Burn vs. 252/0 Neutral Blissey: (95.38% - 112.32%)
This thing has potential, and it would be utterly epic. Timid LO is probably the better choice.
Dark Void has 80% accuracy, aka Hydro Pump.
Ho-oh also boasts a 680 Stat total, with 130 Base attack and base 154 SpD. It can completely rectify its issue with Roost and is almost always run alongside Forretress, not to mention that its base 90 defense is almost irrelevant when accounting for Sacred Fire. The Pursuit weak pokemon have redeeming qualities too.
Lugia: Lol not even going to explain this one.
Lati Twins: Soul Dew + Blistering speed.
Mewtwo: Lol.
Giratina: Both forms are ridiculously bulky, and have ways around Tyranitar.
328 SpA STAB Complete Burn vs. 252/0 Neutral Blissey: (80.67% - 94.96%)
299 LO STAB Complete Burn vs. 252/0 Neutral Blissey: (95.38% - 112.32%)
This thing has potential, and it would be utterly epic. Timid LO is probably the better choice.
Dark Void has 80% accuracy, aka Hydro Pump.
Ho-oh also boasts a 680 Stat total, with 130 Base attack and base 154 SpD. It can completely rectify its issue with Roost and is almost always run alongside Forretress, not to mention that its base 90 defense is almost irrelevant when accounting for Sacred Fire. The Pursuit weak pokemon have redeeming qualities too.
Lugia: Lol not even going to explain this one.
Lati Twins: Soul Dew + Blistering speed.
Mewtwo: Lol.
Giratina: Both forms are ridiculously bulky, and have ways around Tyranitar.
Lawl who doesnt run wide lens XD /joke
If it is that then we should get our counters ready O.e
You know, considering how Sabonea_Masukippa explains it, I'm surprised he didn't just call Complete Burn "Cremation" or something. I guess there's a specific word for that in Japanese, which is why he didn't use it. Complete Burn will probably make a lot of people think its main effect will revolve around burning (and reading this topic it apparently already has). And considering how the meaning and the image behind the Japanese, "Cremation" sounds like a pretty accurate translation, albeit morbid.
I will hate it if Cremation (I'm going to call it that) is a OHKO. But I guess it can't be helped if it is.
I will hate it if Cremation (I'm going to call it that) is a OHKO. But I guess it can't be helped if it is.
This proves various points that people raised, including mine. If this thing could end up causing that much absurd damage, then there's no way this thing will be left in OU. The only possible thing I can think of that can handle this and a Psychic (Other than Tyranitar, but it has the chance of burn, so it won't do jack to it if it can't outspeed via Scarf) is likely Heatran, and I'm sure Victini will be getting Earth Power or Aura Sphere. So that's moot as well.
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