Pokemon Gold 1997 Prototype discovered: Many scrapped pokemon designs within

breh

強いだね
tl;dr of stuff I have in the above post (shorter than the previous):

houndoom bizarrely had all of houndour's dex entries in the final version. its 99 dex entries were too metal

kingdra had its dex entries changed to be less similar to octillery, probably. in 99 it is another ink-releasing water pokemon with a cannon for a face.

entei is the only pokemon not explicitly referred to as a roaming pokemon (although is still said to roam, albeit in different terminology). specifically said that it creates mirages (like, from the heat), which is really cool and gives movie 3 more flavor (even though it was unown, it's still more... fitting?)

other various mons have dex entries that differ from final but are the same as that mystery dex set that I thought was 99 gold.

sadly that poison togepi reference is not carried on any farther than whatever that mystery dex set is; 99 has more or final

oh also R_N based on that mystery dex set madame is holding an onion flower; only mention because the image of a swan with a switch is super funny to me and hard to get out of my head
 
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entei is the only pokemon not explicitly referred to as a roaming pokemon (although is still said to roam, albeit in different terminology). specifically said that it creates mirages (like, from the heat), which is really cool and gives movie 3 more flavor (even though it was unown, it's still more... fitting?)
You know it has been an age since I've seen the anime's entei episode but I think that heat mirages was something that pulled out. I should look into that...

oh also R_N based on that mystery dex set madame is holding an onion flower; only mention because the image of a swan with a switch is super funny to me and hard to get out of my head
Oh that's what that is huh?
Though tbh everyone's sort of looked at madame in a similar way. I mean it's...it's called Madame, it has a domino mask and then you've got the .... mhm... Onion Flower.
I have to assume it's meant to be pronounced like, what, Ma-dam-eh or something like that? So it probably is all a coincidence
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
You know it has been an age since I've seen the anime's entei episode but I think that heat mirages was something that pulled out. I should look into that...
Reading through Bulbapedia's synopsis of EP259 "Entei at Your Own Risk", Entei did use some trickery to get away but it wasn't via creating a mirage. The Character of the Day, Nelson, used a Misdreavus to trap it with Mean Look and then did a few attacks. However Entei shook off the attacks and then used Roar to force Misdreavus back into its Pokeball, allowing Entei to flea.

I have to assume it's meant to be pronounced like, what, Ma-dam-eh or something like that? So it probably is all a coincidence
Only if they changed its name to Madam'e to match with Farfetch'd.

Also that's a very feminine name so would only female Farfetch'd be able to evolve? They have evolutions and early Pokemon designs that wouldn't be made into Pokemon years later (Leafeon, Tangrowth, Komola, etc.) so who's to say they didn't also think about gender specific evolutions?
 
Reading through Bulbapedia's synopsis of EP259 "Entei at Your Own Risk", Entei did use some trickery to get away but it wasn't via creating a mirage. The Character of the Day, Nelson, used a Misdreavus to trap it with Mean Look and then did a few attacks. However Entei shook off the attacks and then used Roar to force Misdreavus back into its Pokeball, allowing Entei to flea.
I see, yeah that sounds about right. And also a great representation of what it was like to try and capture these jerks



Only if they changed its name to Madam'e to match with Farfetch'd.

Also that's a very feminine name so would only female Farfetch'd be able to evolve? They have evolutions and early Pokemon designs that wouldn't be made into Pokemon years later (Leafeon, Tangrowth, Komola, etc.) so who's to say they didn't also think about gender specific evolutions?
My thought process was "Madame" would possibly use japanese pronunciation which I think I have heard "dame" be said "da-may"/"dam-eh"

But double checking on tcrf マダーム is literally "maadamu" or "Madame" so no it's...madame, alright. And judging by the evolution data no it was just a plain old farfetch'd evolution. If it was concieved later on it'd probably have been a female only evolution, I suppose.
It's a shame it apparently came so close to being in the game before getting cut.




Wait you dont think this is meant to be a goose do you? As in, MOTHER GOOSE? Because Farfetch'd was based on an proverb, so we go from proverbs to nursery rhymes? Mother = Madame.
 
This thread has been a very interesting read, even if many of the images are broken so I couldn't quite tell what you guys were discussing.

And judging by the evolution data no it was just a plain old farfetch'd evolution. If it was concieved later on it'd probably have been a female only evolution, I suppose.
I mean, Sirfetch'd can be female too so maybe they were thinking about that back then too? It's fun that Sir and Dame are both titles given by the British crown, lol.

Also I wanna add

Gligar: It swoops in, aiming for the face. While the surprise of clinging onto [its target's] face lasts, it stings with the poison stinger on its tail.
this is quite literally a facehugger (well, minus the stinging I guess), I know they'd seen the similarities with other Dexes but between that and the sprite there's little room to doubt it.
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
I managed to figure out what Tsuinzu/Twinz's Shiny form was meant to look like. There's a shiny version of that "Red Girafarig" in SW99, which naturally would be still using Tsuinzu's palette. We know this since the regular form was doing it. By applying this mismatched palette to Tsuinzu's redesigned front sprite from the June 1999 builds, you can figure out what it was meant to be. Still no back sprite, though.

This implies there was a build where Shiny Tsuinzu existed, though it was either never compiled or never pilfered. It existed after 21st June 1999 but was removed sometime before 17th August 1999, given the dates of the builds I'm comparing. This Pokemon clearly has some of the most interesting histories of all prototype Pokemon.

pokemon_front_202.png
pokemon_back_202_shiny.png
Restored Shiny Tsuinzu.png
Normal Tsuinzu (June '99)​
Shiny "Red Girafarig" (SW99)​
Tsuinzu w/palette ("Shiny form")​
 
So I guess they flirted with the idea of making it a 3 stage line (Twinz, "Red Girafarig", Girafarig) and when they decided against it I bet they considered just replacing Twinz entirely with the second stage. Then before they could dedicate to that they decided to scrap it entirely.
 

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
So I guess they flirted with the idea of making it a 3 stage line (Twinz, "Red Girafarig", Girafarig) and when they decided against it I bet they considered just replacing Twinz entirely with the second stage. Then before they could dedicate to that they decided to scrap it entirely.
No, no, you have it a bit wrong. It was meant to be Tsuinzu -> Girafarig -> Third evolution. You can see it in the stat table. They implemented the greyscale "red Girafarig" but never assigned a palette at this point in development. So, it just used Tsuinzu's, as it replaced it. Pokemon implementation is very slow.
 
No, no, you have it a bit wrong. It was meant to be Tsuinzu -> Girafarig -> Third evolution. You can see it in the stat table. They implemented the greyscale "red Girafarig" but never assigned a palette at this point in development. So, it just used Tsuinzu's, as it replaced it. Pokemon implementation is very slow.
Well I guess my thought process is that Girafarig was the third evolution, but when they changed their mind they just put it back in its old slot but hadn't updated its statline yet.

basically my theoretical time line is:
-twinz & girafarig
-twinz, "red", girafarig
-"red" (replace twinz), girafarig (moved back to repalcing red, but before readjusting the stats)
-wobbuffet, girafarig (both standalone)

Maybe a step in there where they just went back to their first step

"Red" just seems perfect as an in-between stage. We got it looking more like a giraffe now but its still young small and with a single horn, the back end was formed an eye before it forms a full second head. It's still a leap, but a transitionary stage to help bridge the gap
 
I can fully believe those are Kotorra & Raitorra's stats. That much special attack on a regular bear like ursaring doesn't fit.
Tediursa and Ursaring definitely replaced Kotora and Raitora. The file SHINKA.NEW has the following level-up list for them:
mons216$: ; kokuma
db EVOL_LEVEL,020,217 ; ringuma
db 000 ; EVOL END
db 001,084 ; thunder shock
db 001,043 ; leer
db 009,086 ; thunder wave
db 017,044 ; bite
db 025,085 ; thunderbolt
db 035,113 ; light screen
db 045,098 ; quick attack
db 055,087 ; thunder
db 000 ; WAZA END

mons217$: ; ringuma
db 000 ; EVOL END
db 001,084 ; thunder shock
db 001,043 ; leer
db 009,086 ; thunder wave
db 017,044 ; bite
db 027,085 ; thunderbolt
db 039,113 ; light screen
db 051,098 ; quick attack
db 063,087 ; thunder
db 000 ; WAZA END
*translated & transliterated by me

According to the same file, Bayleef was briefly used as a name for Sunkern.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I just realized I never really gave my opinion on the beta Pokemon. I'll start with the leak that started it all: Spaceworld 1997.
NOTE: While I know they were given English names, I'm going to stick with thier Japanese names as that's what TCRF refers them as (and I'm too lazy to fine the English names list)

Hanamogura

AKA Beta Bayleef. Has to be a middle evo for a Grass Starter that wasn't Chikorita, right? Like this sprite looks to detailed to be a placeholder. Though considering how simple Chikorita originally looked, maybe this was Chikorita's original evolution. The only thing I can think that would cause the change in direction would be Meganium, they decides on a more sauropod design. Chikorita was easy enough to adjust, but Hanamogura would have needed to be completely changed. Curious what the evo for Hanamogura would have looked like, Meganium's beta name was Hanaryuu which translates to "Flower Dragon". FUN FACT: There's a species of lily called the "Dragon Lily", called a "drakondia" in Greece because the spadix looked like a small dragon hiding in the spathe... which fits how Hanamogura looks! Also, does that mean beta Meganium was going to be a Grass/Dragon?! Though I guess I can see how that evolve into the sauropod design. I'll admit, just because it looks pretty unique I kind of prefer Hanamogura to Bayleef, wouldn't mind if they made it into its own Pokemon, maybe even go with the full Flower Dragon idea.

Honooguma/Borubeaa/Dainabea

FIRE BEAR! Neat to see the beta Johto Fire Starter did have a full evolution family. Though looking at it looks more lion than bear in the Mid & Final Stage (Final Stage also really looks like a Flareon). The Mid & Final Stage's names also have a relation to Quilava and Typhlosion (and their species name, the Volcano Pokemon), so it could they didn't start from scratch with Cyndaquil but transitioned to it. I have to say I gotta agree with the change... but moreso because I think these designs need to be redone to be more bear-like. I would love a Fire Bear Starter, maybe we could keep this one as a quadruped.

Kurusu/Akua/Akueria

Ooph, would I have wanted the plesiosaur or the crocodile Water Starter. That's a tough choice. Well, thet do already have Lapras but not a crocodile so in the end I think they made the better choice. Infact I could see Kurusu being made into a Lapras prevo and Akueria into a Lapras evo (if they attached a shell to it, of course).

Noctowl

Huh, well, yeah, if I was told to blindly draw an evo for Hoothoot that probably what I would have done. Though its odd that Noctowl drops the standing on one foot behavior that Hoothoot for some reason has, I think the Noctowl we got is definietly better if anythign because it's more nicely detailed. Proto Noctowl looks more simple than Hoothoot which I don't think would have worked.

Mareep

So Mareep's Shiny Color was its original color. I guess this explains why Flaaffy is pink... though Ampharos is still yellow. Anyway this reminds me more of cotton candy than electric sheep, so final design was the way to go but I do like they still kept this as its Shiny color.

Jaranra

Poor Tangela. It's choice of evolutions was either becoming an 18th century powdered wig or a hairy caveman. Well, I guess comparign the two Tangrowth is the better one. I get what they tried doing, but that creepy smile is worse than the blank staring eyes. It was interesting to see that Tangela was going to get both a prevo and an evo, only time that actually happened was with fellow Grass-type Roselia. I think they could have come up with cooler designs for Tangela's evo, but the one we got was better than what they originally thought of.

Haneei

Proto-Mantine, and I really like it. I like the angel & devil design, while Mantine has the natural aquatic camouflage of navy on top (to blend with the ocean depths from those looking from above) and white on bottom (to blend with the surface light from those looking from below) I feel Haneei takes it a step further. In addition to the bottom being white, it also looks like a bird making a below threat possibly think it was just seeing one flying above the surface. Meanwhile those looking from above would see this scary face looking right back at them, making them think there's danger lurking below! Don't get me wrong, I like Mantine too and its relation to Remoraid is certainly interesting, but I think Haneei deserves another shot.

Shibirefugu

Now there's an interesting story connected to this one that I'm seeing. This is Qwilfish's beta evo, and for those who don't know, Qwilfish isn't just a pufferfish but is also based on a naval mine. Why mention this? Well obviously the evolution would be too, that little lightning bolt probably referencing how naval mines have electronic parts (usually sensors to know when to detonate, or rather, discharge). But it was not to be so was shelved... until Gen III where it was recycled and made into its own Pokemon: Whiscash. It always confused me why the Water/Ground earthquake causing Whiscash looked like a Water/Electric-type with a lightning bolt-looking "W" on its forehead. This is why! It's a leftover design when it was a Qwilfish evo that was referencing naval mines having electronic equipment to discharge!

Manboo 1/Ikari/Gurotesu

I like Ikari. The others? Eh, not so much, though Manboo 1 has been replaced by Luvdic & Alomomola and Gurotesu replaced by Huntail. That said, while at first this looks like a random evolution line, like the Remoraid line there is a theme: sea level depth. Manboo 1 is an Ocean Sunfish/Common Mola, a fish that stays close to the surface as it sunbathes. Ikari is not only a shark but also a boat anchor, it would prefer to stay deeper in the water and even down to the seabed. Finally Gurotesu is a combination of fish you'd find in the adbyssal zone, notably eels and angler fish. It's a neat idea though I don't know how well it would have worked out, Gurotesu is a downgrade compared to Ikari in my opinion. Well here's hoping Ikari is made into a Pokemon one day, if they want to give it a prevo maybe make it a a guppy with a fishing hook for a tail.

Ariados

Proto Ariados stuck closer to Spinarak's concept of a face on its abdomen (which better goes with its dex description of opponent's being confused which side is which) but now its bigger and has TWO horns. It also looked to have the ability to change the abdomen face's expression, from a sinister smile to a grumpy frown. I would say the Ariados we got inches to being better if only because I like the eyes better (and it does look more unique compared to Spinarak).

Animon

I love it. GF why did you toss it? Well, probably because a Ditto with higher stats is still a Ditto. Since it evolve via Metal Coat maybe was meant to be a Steel-type and have boosted defenses so it could survive a turn to Transform. But if they did that they might as well just change Ditto itself which they sort of did with its Signature items. Thankfully Ditto has Imposter nowadays to save it from battling obscurity. May not be needed, but I'm so glad we now know it once existed. I salute you, screaming condom.

Sunflora

Odd how Gen I made sure all of its Grass-types looked somewhat mobile but then during the planning of Gen II they had not one but two Grass-types that would be planed in the ground. Not that Sunflora changed that much, they just made its roots into feet.

Tsuinzu/Girafarig

They had to have worked backwards from proto Girafarig to get Tsuinzu, and even then I don't know how. Ask someone to draw an evolution of Tsuinzu and no way you would get anything approaching a Pushmi-Pullyu. Not quite sure how I feel about Tsuinzu on its own, if they brought it back it would either need to be redesigned to look more like Girafarig or given a new evolution and that can go all sorts of directions.
But now let's talk about about that Proto Girafarig, or rather its "dark" head. I kind of want it. I know! First bring back Tsuinzu as a more Girafarig looking prevo that's Normal-type. But then pull a Tyorgue by having it evolve into a certain kind of Girafarig depending on how you trained it. Teach it a Psychic-type move without also having a Dark-type move and it'll evolve into the Girafarig we all know (called "Ego Form", Psychic/Normal). But if you do the reverge, teach it a Dark-type move without a Psychic-type move, it'll instead be its "id head" that develops while the "ego head" regresses (called "Id Form", Normal/Dark). Finally, evolve it knowing both a Psychic- and Dark-type move and it'll evolve into what Proto Girafarig looks like ("Superego From", Psychic/Dark).

Rinrin/Berurun

It's so cute! Way better than Skitty, I hope it didn't replace it in GF's mind. Though I can see why they would at least get rid of its evolution, looks similar to Umbreon. While I wouldn't want them to mess with perfection, think they should change it from a Dark-type (maybe Fairy-type?). Or they could always make it into another Meowth regional variant...

Politoed

All hail the Hypnotoad! Instead of holding a King's Rock it evolved when exposed to a "Heart Stone". Yeah, I don't see it, heck with that glare there's nothing about it I'd associate with a heart (Politoed's dex entry does say its head swirl is considered its crown by other members of its species). Prefer the Politoed we did get, no matter what it was going to look different from Poliwhirl & Poliwrath so might as well stylize the design.

Ledian

The "star" part of Ledian's species name now makes a lot more sense, though as we'll later see they couldn't quite agree how many stars to give it. And then somewhere along the way they scrapped it being a larger ladybug and made it into an alien, I guess in order to keep that star connection? Despite the confusion, I do like Ledian's final design and just wish now they'd made it a sort of counterpart to Ribombee (Bug/Fighting, Iron Fist, 60/95/70/55/60/124//464). FUN FACT: There are some animals that do navigate via the stars. Sadly ladybugs aren't one of them, though the dung beetle does. When figuring out where to go it'll stand on its dung ball at night and examine the stars.

Taaban:

A mix between what Shellder "evolves" into when it latches Slowpoke's tail or head, it's been a mystery where Shellder could operate as its own Pokemon like that. I guess GF also go the same thought and were gonna answer it. I wonder what changed their mind, was it just a victim of cutting down the dex size or an actual design choice reason (like not wanting to suggest Slowbro/Slowking's Shellder could be removed)? Well I guess Shellder got the last laugh in the end with Mega Slowbro.

Remoraid/Octillery

Boy, if parents weren't already on Pokemon's case for depicting animal fighting and religious taboos imagine how they would have flipped seeing their kid was able to catch a gun Pokemon, lol. But yes, finally after years of speculating it's not "fish into octopus" but "gun into cannon/tank" their proto designs brings the case to a close. I got to wonder how the designer who originally made them feels about having his "clever" designs made into a more generic lookign fish and octopus. "Oh, sure, the devil dog is fine but a literal triggerfish is too far".

Hitmontop

An old interveiw with Ken Sugimori revealed the proto Tyranitar, Hitmontop (which looked like a Clefairy alternate evolution), and turtle Pokemon that appeared on a magazine cover before GS's release weren't actual Pokemon but "Pokemon-like" designs. Now considering that one was obviously Tyranitar who knows if they changed their mind on the three and made them into Pokemon. At the very least they may have made the early "Hitmontop" into an actual Pokemon... and this was their first attempt. You know, considering the early Hitmontop looked like a Clefairy evo, maybe it was meant to look like a flying saucer and so they were trying to keep within that design and capoeira (after shifting it to be part of the Hitmon family)? Now, I kind of like how Proto Hitmontop looks, but I'm glad they changed it to the Hitmontop we have now. Still, maybe find a way to make both it and its prevo, Gongu, into their own Pokemon; maybe Ultra Beasts?

Hoppip/Skiploom/Jumpluff

So, if you're wondering about the cat connection: "neko" is Japanese for "cat" and "nekko" is Japanese for "root". They're cats which have roots. Also, it's a dandeLION (and I know Japan knows about the pun as there's a Yu-Gi-Oh card based on it). Puns aside, I think the design change was welcome because their proto designs look like In-Training Digimon. Jumpluff may not be all that strong but it at least looks fully grown.

Tsubomitto

Oddish got a branched evolution so makes sense its counterpart, Bellsprout, also would have had one planned. Not entirely sure just a bigger Bellsprout was the right way to go, it would probably stuck with the pitcher plant theme so maybe base it on a Cobra Lily? Though I guess the more important question would what changes can they make to Victreebel to justify an alternate evolution? Well, I guess they couldn't, and that's why Victreebel stands alone as Bellsprout's final stage.

Bomushikaa

Now, Volcanion is cool and all, but I do wish this was out first Fire/Water-type. A sea lion that creates a flaming fireball it balances on its nose is so ludicrous, I love it! However with Popplio doing the same thing but with bubbles I think this might have been fullu shelved, but one can still dream.

Kotora/Raitora

A known cut Pokemon Gen I, and Gen II, I wonder if it was added to any other gen (or it's still added early on as a cruel in-joke)? Or maybe they became another Pokemon, an electric feline sounds similar to the Shinx family. Not sure whether I would have wanted it or not. On one hand it's pretty cute, but on the other I would prefer a tiger that looked like a tiger... which we still don't really have yet.

Madaamu

With it being a swan I guess they were going for an Ugly Duckling theme which actually makes a lot of sense considering what Farfetch'd is based on. Many have made a point that Farfetch'd shouldn't evolve as it's purposely made to be a bad trade Pokemon, that's the joke; but having its evolution go with that idea and purposely subvert it feels appropriate. However that would mean Madaamu would have to be good which may have no be in the cards at the time. Oh well, maybe an Ability could have helped it if made one Gen later, but now we have Sirfetch'd which has more interesting origins (even if its an evo for just Galarian Farfetch'd). We also got an Ugly Duckling Pokemon later with Ducklett and Swanna.

Norowara/Kyonpan

I really like them! Sure a voodoo doll evolving into a jiangshi is random, but with some adjustments (make Norowara look more bear-like, make Kyonpan look stitched together and have pins sticking out of it) and I think it could have worked. While Banette has some voodoo doll inspirations, I think there's enough room these could be brought back.

Murkrow

The witch inspiration was more apparaent. Probably simplified the "hat" to make it less in-your-face, which worked in their favor years later for making Honchkrow a mob boss as their hats now also look like gangster hats. But saying that makes me wonder if they should have an alternate evolution more leaning into its original witch inspirations.

Blissey

Remember that Heart Stone I mentioned for Politoed? And see how Proto Blissey has a giant heart on its head? Obviously this means Blissey DOESN'T evolve with a Heart Stone. Like, even if they planned on changing it later just seems like something they would have at the beginning. I do prefer final Blissey's design of looking like a frilly dressed nurse, though I do wish it kept the two egg pouches.

Scizor

It's funny, Proto Scizor looks like a fan drawing of a Scyther and Scizor fusion. Joking aside, I actually do like it; wouldn't mind if this became a regional variant of Scizor or regional evolution for Scyther.

Purakkusu

Since there's no Heracross I wonder if Purakkusu eventually became Heracross. Thus the reason Pinsir and Heracross have a rivalry is because Heracross stole Pinsir's chance of getting an evolution! I'm not entirely sold on Purakkusu, Pinsir more feels like it should have gotten a prevo than an evolution. I think Mega Pinsir is as close to an evolution Pinsir should get.

Urufuman/Waaurufu

Curious is this somehow eventually became Snorunt. Even if it did, both have different origins so I think with maybe some adjustments they could bring back these two. Like instead of a impish creature wearing a generic wolf pelt, how about just making it a Siberian husky which has thick, loose hair it wears like a pelt. I think a Siberian hsuky would make for a good Ice-type dog but think we may have too many dog Pokemon which look like a typical dog (Yamper & Boltund being the latest addition).

Porygon2

Before we begin, let's get this straight: Proto Porygon2 has nothing to do with Pon de Lion (or at least there's no proof). Rather, they both were individually created from the same idea: a cartoony lion made of circles. For Pon de Lion it's because its made of doughnuts, for Proto Porygon2 its because they wanted to show a progression in technology (blocky graphics to rounder graphics). So I can kind of get them wanting to base Porygon2 off an animal that would have more rounded parts to show that off. However I think the Porygon2 we got was overall the better choice as its a much easier comparison to make with the base Porygon. And though I would say they could maybe bring back this design as its own Pokemon but with a group of other Pokemon also based on 3d shapes (cube, pyramid, cylinder, etc.), the fact it does look identical to Pon de Lion probably squashes any thought of doing that.

Nameeru

Looks more like a Lickitung and Slowpoke fusion than Lickitung evolution. Not sure what they were going for with this design, even if I was designing a Lickitung evolution that look like Lickilicky I don't think I would come up with something like this (probably would look more like a chameleon). Hot take: I wish Lickilicky was a better design, but I think it's a better design than this.

Kingdra

I kind of like this Kingdra as it looks like what I'd imagine a Dragon-type evolution of Seadra would. Kingdra isn't a bad design and I know it more looks like the Leafy Seadragon Seahorse, but to me it just looks like an elderly seahorse than a fierce dragon seahorse. Future regional evolution for Seadra?

Rai/En/Sui

So, the short animation series Pokemon Generation had an episode where Eusine visits the Burned/Brass Tower. In that episode we get a flashback to when the tower burned and got to see the three Pokemon that perished and then reborn into the Legendary Beasts. These Pokemon were kept in silhouette but you could tell they were canines. An interesting choice, especially with the popular theory they were the original three Eeveelutions. However it now makes a lot more sense seeing their prototype designs! And they're not bad designs, I would say what we got was a bit better but these wouldn't have been bad. And with the Legendary Birds getting regional variants it makes me hopeful they could touch up these designs and release them either as a regional variant or even as an alternate form.

Sneasel

Sneasel was much cuter originally. Though it now does look more like a weasel, I think the Sneasel we got was the better choice. I don't think Sneasel would be fondly remembered without that edginess.

Leafeon

Ever since the early days of Pokemon fans made up a Grass-type Eeveelution, felt so obvious with the Leaf Stone. And now here we are in 2020 and not only do we have Leafeon but to evolve it you now just need a Leaf Stone. I like the Leafeon we got, the root feet feel a bit much.

SO MANY BABIES! Gonna split these guys into different categories:
  • Proto Designs: Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff

    Funny how Pichu & Igglybuff started out so round and Cleffa was very star-shaped. Now Pichu is more defined, Cleffa is rounder, and Igglybuff... well it's still round.

    Mime Jr., Smoochum, Elekid, Magby

    Speaking of round, first attempt at a Mr. Mime prevo I'm not sure they knew what they wanted it to be so glad the Mime Jr. we did get had much more fun to it. I'm curious for Smoochum if it was made before the Jynx controversy being it looked exactly like Jynx and what we got now matches the purple version. Elekid reminds me of something you'd fight in Earthbound, very strange and prefer the one we got. On the flip side I like this version of Magby, sure itl ooks like Bart Simpson but it doesn't look like like an old mean when it's supposed to be a baby.

  • Wasn't Needed: Monja, Gyopin, Para, Koonya, Puchikoon, Betobebii

    Monja removes the vines showing what's underneath which I feel defeats one of the charming things about Tangela. I understand Gyopin is based on a fish fry but that doesn't mean Goldeen needed a prevo. Para I'm mixed on, unneeded but at the same time has some neat lore behind it with it being the parasite to the mushroom (or Para eggs are laid in the mushrooms that'll one day overtake them). While at first a Meowth prevo makes sense, not sure I quite get why Koonya has 3 coins floating above it (unless those aren't supposed to be there); even if they weren't the design is still too similar to Meowth. Puchikoon is just a smaller Ponyta, only way this would have been acceptable if Ponyta was given a horn and Rapidash a pair of wings. However Betobebii had no such chance, its more of a slime puddle than Grimer is.

  • Wished Was Made: Mikon, Hinaazu, Gongu, Pudi

    Mikon is a neat reference to Vulpix's dex entry that says it's born with one tail that splits as it gets older. Hinaazu is a pretty clever design, it's fur is so fluffy (which chick feathers are) that with the three heads it looks like a nest; but where does the third head go when it evolves? Gongu may not have made for the best Hitmon prevo but I think it could be made into its own seperate Pokemon just fine; actually it gives me a bit of a Makuhita vibe. Now honestly Pudi should probably be with the "wasn't needed"... but how can you say no to such a good boi? Actually Pudi reminds me of a puppy Baby Pokemon I made which gimmick was that it evolved either into Growlithe, Snubbull, Houndour, Poochyena, and Electrike (I think this was during Gen III; know there's a few more dog Pokemon to add to that list); though that idea is a bit extreme.


Next time I post will be for Spaceworld 1999.
 
Why is it every time I learn about our round tigers I come out more depressed
Yeah, really. At this point I would say that they have the (dubious) honor of being the scrapped pokémon that were closest to be finalized. There are some other scrapped evolutions like Madame or Tsubomittu that could be possible candidates for that title, but even those had copypasted level-up lists from another evolutionary relative.
 
Yeah, really. At this point I would say that they have the (dubious) honor of being the scrapped pokémon that were closest to be finalized. There are some other scrapped evolutions like Madame or Tsubomittu that could be possible candidates for that title, but even those had copypasted level-up lists from another evolutionary relative.
We're going to get a gen 3 build or asset dump some day and the tigers are going to be referenced in some fashion and i'll just scream into the void.

I have to assume the reasoning here was they would have "too many" electric types, I guess? Pichu, Elekid, Mareep, Flaaffy, Ampharos, Chinchou, Lanturn, Raikou. And aside from the anglers they're all pure electric. Mareep probably fulfilled the standard line, Pichu & Elekid stay on for the breeding mechanic, Chinchou/Lanturn have a unique typing & niche, Raikou is a legendary. So the 2 stage pure electric kind-of-sort-of-slow electric line gets dropped. Raikou being partially based on a tiger probably din't help either

But it is so frustrating because those designs are so good and at best their descendents are so removed from what makes them so good it's barely a consolation prize.
 
We're going to get a gen 3 build or asset dump some day and the tigers are going to be referenced in some fashion and i'll just scream into the void.

I have to assume the reasoning here was they would have "too many" electric types, I guess? Pichu, Elekid, Mareep, Flaaffy, Ampharos, Chinchou, Lanturn, Raikou. And aside from the anglers they're all pure electric. Mareep probably fulfilled the standard line, Pichu & Elekid stay on for the breeding mechanic, Chinchou/Lanturn have a unique typing & niche, Raikou is a legendary. So the 2 stage pure electric kind-of-sort-of-slow electric line gets dropped. Raikou being partially based on a tiger probably din't help either

But it is so frustrating because those designs are so good and at best their descendents are so removed from what makes them so good it's barely a consolation prize.
I wouldn't actually be surprised if they were considered again in Gen III, only for Kotora to be re-tooled and turned into Spheal. Kotora and Spheal do have a similar design after all.

But yeah, why couldn't we have the good round tigers, game freak?
 
First bring back Tsuinzu as a more Girafarig looking prevo that's Normal-type. But then pull a Tyorgue by having it evolve into a certain kind of Girafarig depending on how you trained it. Teach it a Psychic-type move without also having a Dark-type move and it'll evolve into the Girafarig we all know (called "Ego Form", Psychic/Normal). But if you do the reverge, teach it a Dark-type move without a Psychic-type move, it'll instead be its "id head" that develops while the "ego head" regresses (called "Id Form", Normal/Dark). Finally, evolve it knowing both a Psychic- and Dark-type move and it'll evolve into what Proto Girafarig looks like ("Superego From", Psychic/Dark).
I could do without the Psychic/Dark evo, but the rest reminds me a lot of the one unironically amazing Pokemon designed on Drawfee.
(It's not the swole ghost)

Hinaazu is a pretty clever design, it's fur is so fluffy (which chick feathers are) that with the three heads it looks like a nest; but where does the third head go when it evolves?
Maybe when they evolve into Doduo, one of the heads doesn't grow and is just sitting there under Doduo's fluff, and then it grows to match the other two when they evolve into Dodrio. It would explain why one of Dodrio's heads also looks so concerned. It would also go a bit against the Yellow dex entry that says one of the heads split in two, but whatever.
 

Bull Of Heaven

99 Pounders / 4'3" Feet
is a Pre-Contributor
I wouldn't actually be surprised if they were considered again in Gen III, only for Kotora to be re-tooled and turned into Spheal. Kotora and Spheal do have a similar design after all.

But yeah, why couldn't we have the good round tigers, game freak?
Maybe it was split into Electrike and Spheal.
 

breh

強いだね
Finally getting around to reading some of the beta tester reports. Most are boring, but this one is funny so I thought I should post. Rough translation follows:

お世話になります、ゲームフリークの西野です。

・カビゴンについて
・・・シナリオを進める場合は問題ありませんが、ポケモンリーグを想定した時
には、強すぎると思います。金銀のポケモンでは、「ホウオウ」「ルギア」
「カビゴン」が他と比べて、飛びぬけて強い様に感じます。
ホウオウとルギアは、飛び抜けて強く(ミューツーと同等)設定してあります。

カビゴンは特防が高いため、特殊攻撃がほとんど効かず、HPも多いので、
攻撃力が弱いポケモンは倒すのが大変です。ワザ的には、1ターン目に、
「はらだいこ」をしてくるので、このターンに効果的なワザ(あやしいひかりや
攻撃力の高いポケモンの打撃ワザ・格闘ワザ)が出せない場合、眠られると
、3匹倒される恐れがあります。
「はらだいこ」の6段階アップは強すぎるのではないでしょうか?
また、特防も高すぎると思います。
カビゴンですが…
能力的には特殊防御が高目で、その代わりに防御が低目に設定してあります
なので能力的には、それほど強くは無いと思っています(動きは遅く物理攻撃には弱い)。

はらだいこも攻撃が6段階アップしますが…
代わりにHPが半分になるという危険性もあるので、こちらも特に問題はないと思っています。
しかし仕様的に間違いがありましたので、以下のように修正しました。
変更前:残りHPが半分が減る
変更後:最大HPの半分が減る

Hello and thank you for your correspondence; Nishino of GAMEFREAK here.

Re: Snorlax
Going through the plot, there aren't any problems, but against the Pokemon league, I think it's too strong. Among GS Pokemon, compared to the others, Ho-oh, Lugia, and Snorlax feel extremely strong.
Ho-oh and Lugia are supposed to be extremely strong compared to others (on the same level as Mewtwo). [I think this is his reply but not sure]

Snorlax has high special defense, so special moves barely do anything, and it has a lot of HP, too, so it's difficult for Pokemon with low power to defeat it. With respect to its moves, in 1 turn, it can use Belly Drum and, if in that turn one cannot use effective moves (Confuse Ray and Fighting-type moves from powerful Pokemon), if it Rests, it can potentially take down 3 Pokemon. Isn't the +6 from Belly Drum too strong? Also, I think its special defense is too high.
With respect to Snorlax...

Stats-wise, its special defense is high; in return, its defense is low. Thus, I don't think its stats are that strong (it's slow and weak to physical attacks).

Belly Drum raises your attack by 6 stages, but...

In return, it is dangerous because it halves your HP, so I don't think there's much of a problem here either.
However, there is a mistake in the specs, so it's been revised as follows bellow:
Before revision: HP drops by half of remaining HP
After revision: HP drops by half of max HP

~~

they knew lol
 
Last edited:
Finally getting around to reading some of the beta tester reports. Most are boring, but this one is funny so I thought I should post. Rough translation follows:

お世話になります、ゲームフリークの西野です。

・カビゴンについて
・・・シナリオを進める場合は問題ありませんが、ポケモンリーグを想定した時
には、強すぎると思います。金銀のポケモンでは、「ホウオウ」「ルギア」
「カビゴン」が他と比べて、飛びぬけて強い様に感じます。
ホウオウとルギアは、飛び抜けて強く(ミューツーと同等)設定してあります。

カビゴンは特防が高いため、特殊攻撃がほとんど効かず、HPも多いので、
攻撃力が弱いポケモンは倒すのが大変です。ワザ的には、1ターン目に、
「はらだいこ」をしてくるので、このターンに効果的なワザ(あやしいひかりや
攻撃力の高いポケモンの打撃ワザ・格闘ワザ)が出せない場合、眠られると
、3匹倒される恐れがあります。
「はらだいこ」の6段階アップは強すぎるのではないでしょうか?
また、特防も高すぎると思います。
カビゴンですが…
能力的には特殊防御が高目で、その代わりに防御が低目に設定してあります
なので能力的には、それほど強くは無いと思っています(動きは遅く物理攻撃には弱い)。

はらだいこも攻撃が6段階アップしますが…
代わりにHPが半分になるという危険性もあるので、こちらも特に問題はないと思っています。
しかし仕様的に間違いがありましたので、以下のように修正しました。
変更前:残りHPが半分が減る
変更後:最大HPの半分が減る

Hello and thank you for your correspondence; Nishino of GAMEFREAK here.



Ho-oh and Lugia are supposed to be extremely strong compared to others (on the same level as Mewtwo). [I think this is his reply but not sure]



With respect to Snorlax...

Stats-wise, its special defense is high; in return, its defense is low. Thus, I don't think its stats are that strong (it's slow and weak to physical attacks).

Belly Drum raises your attack by 6 stages, but...

In return, it is dangerous because it halves your HP, so I don't think there's much of a problem here either.
However, there is a mistake in the specs, so it's been revised as follows bellow:
Before revision: HP drops by half of remaining HP
After revision: HP drops by half of max HP

~~

they knew lol
And then Gen 2 Snorlax lived on to be the single most centralizing Pokemon that has ever existed.

Nishino tried to warn them.

He tried to warn them that his favorite Pokemon was becoming too powerful.

They tried to stop it, but it wasn't enough.

snorlax origin.png
 
And then Gen 2 Snorlax lived on to be the single most centralizing Pokemon that has ever existed.

Nishino tried to warn them.

He tried to warn them that his favorite Pokemon was becoming too powerful.

They tried to stop it, but it wasn't enough.

View attachment 244419
It's the other way around. They tried to warn Nishino, but he thought Snorlax was balanced because of its low Defense stat. Oh was he so wrong.

But that makes me think... since back at that point they were not into changing a Pokémon's stats (and it wasn't until Gen VIII until they nerfed base stats), what if the Choice Band was made in order to make Snorlax "balanced" like Nishino thought?
 
Last edited:
Those beta reports are so good. When thse first got dumped I was following a twitter thread (I think its gone now, sadly) giving rough approximations and you get things like people complainin about not seeing shiny pokemon, masuda (?) defending the then-current choice to not having the game save after beating Red and my personal favorite, masuda asking that certain complaints/people please stop coming to him.
 
TCRF put up some prototype teams from the 99 build and there is some interesting differences here and there

L10 Pidgey, L10 Pidgeotto, L10 Pidgeot
This is proto-falkner's team. A level 10 Pidgeot is so insane I just assume it was here as a joke, but they should have at least kept the level 10 pidgey & pidgeotto. Imagine if the first leader did have a Pidgeot though, how hilarious would that be.

L22 Miltank
This is Whiteny's...uhh..."team". I figure it's probably just unfinished, just that they knew they wanted her to have a Miltank as her star, but it's kind of hilarious to think nah lets give her just the Miltank.


L8 Sentret, L12 Sentret, L12 Furret, L16 Furret -> L9 Sentret, L13 Sentret, L17 Sentret
L26 Piloswine, L26 Piloswine -> L26 Swinub, L26 Swinub
L25 Remoraid, L25 Octillery -> L25 Remoraid, L25 Remoraid
Several trainers, such as these guys, had their pokemon weakened. There's also several Quagsires turning into Woopers, but I'm guessing that's because Wooper was in the process of turning Quagsire into a 2-stage line.

L34 Sneasel, L36 Golbat, L35 Rhyhorn, L35 Gengar, L35 Alakazam, L38 Meganium/Typhlosion/Feraligatr
The victory road Rival fight had him carrying Gengar & Alakazam! The rhyhorn is a consistent fixture in this build, he has it instead of the Magnemite line.

L40 Ariados, L41 Venomoth, L42 Muk, L43 Weezing, L44 Crobat
Koga used to have his level 43 ace from RB, Weezing, instead of the Forretress. I guess once they finalized Forretress' design they felt it fit him better? Who knows. I'd have gotten rid of the Venomoth or Muk, personally.

L43 Hitmontop, L43 Hitmonchan, L43 Hitmonlee, L44 Poliwrath, L47 Machamp
Bruno used to have a Poliwrath instead of an Onix....I'm guessing this was done so they had a call back to his gen 1 team.

L42 Vileplume, L42 Arbok, L44 Murkrow, L45 Gengar, L47 Houndoom
Karen had an Arbok instead of a Vileplume.

L48 Pidgeot, L46 Alakazam, L48 Rhydon, L53 Gyarados, L53 Exeggutor, L53 Arcanine
L70 Pikachu, L63 Espeon, L63 Snorlax, L65 Venusaur, L65 Charizard, L65 Blastoise

Blue & Red were significantly weaker than their final versions...it's a bit surprising, usually they lowered things or kept them about the same but even though these 2 trail above every other trainer as-is the ystill buffed them pretty hard. Red in particular I think was overkill especially for a low level curve like GSC's
 

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