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Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)
- Thread starter RBG
- Start date
Am I the only one who didn't ignore this?
Out of all who posted, most likely.
Oven Rotom could well be useful for that... Cut Rotom could be nice as well, since Grass/Electric/Ice would be a pretty great combination to go with. Wash Rotom wouldn't be too bad for an RD Team... Frost apparently is gonna do well in Hail, but I have no experience with Hail teams. The only one that seems useless is the fan... I mean, Air Slash isn't exactly that great compared to all the other moves, is it? Not without Serene Grace at least...
Oven Rotom could well be useful for that... Cut Rotom could be nice as well, since Grass/Electric/Ice would be a pretty great combination to go with. Wash Rotom wouldn't be too bad for an RD Team... Frost apparently is gonna do well in Hail, but I have no experience with Hail teams. The only one that seems useless is the fan... I mean, Air Slash isn't exactly that great compared to all the other moves, is it? Not without Serene Grace at least...
They should have given Fan Rotom Aeroblast :D
By the way, have anybody checked Rotom's traits already? Do they all keep Levitate?
By the way, have anybody checked Rotom's traits already? Do they all keep Levitate?
Yes, or at least serebii's dex says so
Oven Rotom or whatever the fire type is called should be useful in many tiers. In UU it could easily wall Steelix, but now Steelix gets destroyed by an Overheat. The same thing can be said for Heracross, and the improved defenses on all of them means they can more efficiently counter Swellow, since Rotom could be 2HKOed by Brave Bird previously. I am really looking forward to these new forms.
It is unfortunate that you can't use Shaymin-S over Wifi, but I don't have the correct Shaymin anyways, so I won't be able to obtain it regardless. Another disappointment is Giratina-O, but that could be useful with Platinum
Orb/whatever attached in game.
Absol gets Superpower! Yeah, finally, a move CB Absol can use perfectly for the rock/steeels instead of the shitty Rock Smash. Sucker Punch / Superpower / Pursuit or Fire Blast / Psycho Cut / X-Scissor. Sounds pretty awesome to me. Fire Blast would obviously be for OU where Skarmory, Forretress, and the new and improved Scizor would rape it otherwise. It could be useful for Steelix tho, assuming that isn't moved to BL due to Curse...
EDIT: Another thing, while Flare Blitz would have been a nice addition to Flareon's movepool, I think Superpower gives it a great boost. It gives it some pretty awesome coverage as a mixed sweeper/wall breaker in OU, with Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, Superpower, and Return. Too bad it is still slow.
It is unfortunate that you can't use Shaymin-S over Wifi, but I don't have the correct Shaymin anyways, so I won't be able to obtain it regardless. Another disappointment is Giratina-O, but that could be useful with Platinum
Orb/whatever attached in game.
Absol gets Superpower! Yeah, finally, a move CB Absol can use perfectly for the rock/steeels instead of the shitty Rock Smash. Sucker Punch / Superpower / Pursuit or Fire Blast / Psycho Cut / X-Scissor. Sounds pretty awesome to me. Fire Blast would obviously be for OU where Skarmory, Forretress, and the new and improved Scizor would rape it otherwise. It could be useful for Steelix tho, assuming that isn't moved to BL due to Curse...
EDIT: Another thing, while Flare Blitz would have been a nice addition to Flareon's movepool, I think Superpower gives it a great boost. It gives it some pretty awesome coverage as a mixed sweeper/wall breaker in OU, with Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, Superpower, and Return. Too bad it is still slow.
Not only hypnosis accuracy, but the length sleep lasts is a lot shorter in this game. I've played this game through with hypnosis crobat and gengar, and I'd say 40% of the time I switch into a sleeping pokemon it wakes up and attacks my switch in (that is, it slept only the turn I used hypnosis). Though I heard this is how sleep functions in Japanese D/P as well. Jeez, if their sleep function ends this quickly, just based on that discrepancy it's no wonder their metagame is so different from ours. I don't think I'd even bother using sleep powder in this environment. 30% chance to miss, and then 40% chance they wake up the next turn? That's just crappy odds.
Hmmm I am loveing these totours more and more every day.
Just checked charizard, DDoutrage zard anybody lol?
Charizard@ Leftovers/Life orb
Adamant nature 252Atk 136HP 120Spe
Dragon dance
Outrage
Flare Blitz/Fire Blast
Thunderpunch
Dragon dance Salamence/Dragonite but without the ice weakness, but you get the rock one instead. Could be used as a surprise setup. Thunderpunch could get the jump on gyarados and other non-ground waters.
Just checked charizard, DDoutrage zard anybody lol?
Charizard@ Leftovers/Life orb
Adamant nature 252Atk 136HP 120Spe
Dragon dance
Outrage
Flare Blitz/Fire Blast
Thunderpunch
Dragon dance Salamence/Dragonite but without the ice weakness, but you get the rock one instead. Could be used as a surprise setup. Thunderpunch could get the jump on gyarados and other non-ground waters.
Mmm, let's see. Outrage is only slightly strong than a STAB Fire Punch, if Blaze is not activate. And you have freedom to pick your moves. Of course, without Belly Drum, you'll likely be using Flare Blitz which is a lot more powerful. Outrage on things without STAB is NOT good.
seems to em all the outragers are in the monster or dragon egg groups. might explain this seemingly random spreading of it.
Eh, you'd honestly be better off with a three move BellyZard set and work it in the same vein as ADV's with BD/FP/EQ/TP. Loses against faster threats now without a sub nor guaranteed Salac boost, but smacks around all Bulky Waters not named Swampert. Needless to say, Gyarados, who in my experience is the bulky water of choice to come in most frequently, is hit especially hard by it. Milotic, Vaporeon, Slowbro, and even Suicune (though it can survive) aren't too fond of it either.
Both sets have different pros and cons, but both BD sets are imo better than any DD set Charizard could concoct. You'd be better off using Salamence for a DD set.
I was just looking at Mamoswine's new tutor moves, and i'm surprised nobody has taken notice of Endeavor. I mean, Mamoswine is immune to sand/hail, has Ice Shard for priority, and can also abuse Snow Cloak by Subbing down to 1 HP. I said, "why not" and made this set up quickly :U
Mamoswine (M) @ Salac Berry / Brightpowder
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 176 HP/84 Atk/16 Def/232 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Substitute
- Endeavor
Since Mamoswine is immune to both sand and hail and has a priority attack in Ice Shard, I have always been hoping that it would someday learn Endeavor. In Platinum, my wish was granted :D
This set is kind of similar to the Endeavor Swampert moveset, mainly because one wouldn’t expect this type of moveset on Mamoswine (just like how nobody would expect Endeavor on Swampert). This set is also meant to be on a team with Abomasnow, so that it can Substitute down to 1 HP while abusing Snow Cloak. Earthquake and Ice Shard both get STAB and also provide excellent type coverage. Although it may seem redundant to have both Ice Shard and Salac Berry on the same set (not to mention the fact that most Pokemon won’t even survive the Endeavor if hail is in play), it’s always useful to have a priority move, just in case you come across something like a Rain Dance Deoxys-E. Besides, it’s not like Mamoswine has a lot of other useful moves it can use, right?
The EV spread gives Mamoswine 405 HP, which allows it to use Substitute four times (leaving it at 1 HP) while also giving the Substitutes 101 HP each, meaning it will take two Seismic Tosses to break each one. The 16 Defense EVs make sure that a standard Bronzong’s Earthquake will not break Mamoswine’s Substitutes. This will be helpful against Bronzongs without Gyro Ball, or Bronzongs who are trying to conserve their Gyro Ball PP. The 232 Speed EVs give Mamoswine 254 Speed, which is enough to outspeed Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after a Salac boost. The remaining EVs were put into Attack.
Brightpowder is another item that could be used on this set, if you want to further abuse Snow Cloak. If you do use Brightpowder, however, I recommend making Mamoswine Jolly and moving 4 Attack EVs to Speed. This will give Mamoswine 280 Speed, which is enough to outspeed Adamant Lucario and other Pokemon with base 90 Speed.
Mamoswine (M) @ Salac Berry / Brightpowder
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 176 HP/84 Atk/16 Def/232 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Substitute
- Endeavor
Since Mamoswine is immune to both sand and hail and has a priority attack in Ice Shard, I have always been hoping that it would someday learn Endeavor. In Platinum, my wish was granted :D
This set is kind of similar to the Endeavor Swampert moveset, mainly because one wouldn’t expect this type of moveset on Mamoswine (just like how nobody would expect Endeavor on Swampert). This set is also meant to be on a team with Abomasnow, so that it can Substitute down to 1 HP while abusing Snow Cloak. Earthquake and Ice Shard both get STAB and also provide excellent type coverage. Although it may seem redundant to have both Ice Shard and Salac Berry on the same set (not to mention the fact that most Pokemon won’t even survive the Endeavor if hail is in play), it’s always useful to have a priority move, just in case you come across something like a Rain Dance Deoxys-E. Besides, it’s not like Mamoswine has a lot of other useful moves it can use, right?
The EV spread gives Mamoswine 405 HP, which allows it to use Substitute four times (leaving it at 1 HP) while also giving the Substitutes 101 HP each, meaning it will take two Seismic Tosses to break each one. The 16 Defense EVs make sure that a standard Bronzong’s Earthquake will not break Mamoswine’s Substitutes. This will be helpful against Bronzongs without Gyro Ball, or Bronzongs who are trying to conserve their Gyro Ball PP. The 232 Speed EVs give Mamoswine 254 Speed, which is enough to outspeed Modest Choice Scarf Heatran after a Salac boost. The remaining EVs were put into Attack.
Brightpowder is another item that could be used on this set, if you want to further abuse Snow Cloak. If you do use Brightpowder, however, I recommend making Mamoswine Jolly and moving 4 Attack EVs to Speed. This will give Mamoswine 280 Speed, which is enough to outspeed Adamant Lucario and other Pokemon with base 90 Speed.
Yeah, I just did some calculations. Adamant max Salamence 2HKOs nearly every non-steel in the game with Outrage after a Dragon Dance and that is without Life Orb. Only max HP, max Def Hippowdon has a small chance of survival and of course Cresselia.
Even Adamant CB Chomp had trouble 2HKOing some things. The +5 base attack Salamence has over Garchomp is what makes them guaranteed 2HKOs. Perhaps Mence can run Yache Berry after all.
Your luck seems to balance against mine, then. You got all the short sleeps, and I got all the 4-5 turn ones. At least in-game, I don't think the mechanics of sleep have changed beyond the change to Hypnosis' accuracy.
Magnet Rise Cursesteel, damn. That makes a STAB Fighting or Fire move almost absolutely necessary on every team.
Air Cutter Togekiss: Are high-crit chance moves affected by Serene Grace?
Curse/Magnet Rise/Earthquake/Ice Punch? Between Registeel's meh Attack and lack of STAB, it'll take a while before it actually does any appreciable damage to anything that isn't hit SE. But maybe I'm just underestimating the metallic golem.
Curse/Magnet Rise/Earthquake/Ice Punch? Between Registeel's meh Attack and lack of STAB, it'll take a while before it actually does any appreciable damage to anything that isn't hit SE. But maybe I'm just underestimating the metallic golem.
Magnet rise cursesteel is a good threat, but there is already a STAB fighting or fire move on almost every team w/ infernape and lucario. I see a rise in bulky setup sweepers (CMrachi, MR cursesteel, CMcress, ect.)
After a curse or even possibly before, it should be able to take a hit from either and hit back for the ko which is nice. I think we may see our first OU regi, especiallu since skymin is going to be on shoddy and prolly as an OU suspect
Totally jumping the gun since Garchomp has a number of advantages over Salamence (which we all should know by now so I won't go into detail). What this really means is that Stealth Rock will be more difficult to ban in light of an improved Salamence. >_>
Garchomp is banned because of its typing and boost it receives from Sand Storm as well. Salamence is crippled by Stealth Rocks and hurt by Sand Storm. It really requires Roost to bypass those, or a lot of spinning support. All this extra damage means Yache Berry might not save Salamence from a powerful Ice Beam.
Salamence also does not have the lovely STAB Earthquake to toss around. Nor does it have the ridiculous 102 base speed if it chooses not to run Dragon Dance.
I'd like to see damage calculations for a +1 Salamence on an Impish Uxie, who now receives Ice Punch. And can still phaze him with Yawn.
Salamence also does not have the lovely STAB Earthquake to toss around. Nor does it have the ridiculous 102 base speed if it chooses not to run Dragon Dance.
I'd like to see damage calculations for a +1 Salamence on an Impish Uxie, who now receives Ice Punch. And can still phaze him with Yawn.