Pokemon Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald In-Game Tier List Discussion

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Punchshroom

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Clamperl You keep bringing up arguments like stat comparisons between Chimecho, Snorunt, and even Treecko of all things, yet you're not looking at the bigger picture. Sure, Chimecho has higher SpA than Snorunt, but unless you're willing to dump your coins into the Psychic TM (which most Psychic-types in the game don't even need to begin with), Chimecho's only STAB for a whopping 18 levels (up to 46 btw, and Snorunt requires 14 at most) is Confusion, which is weaksauce: Chimecho's Confusion is only about as strong as Claydol's Psybeam and is outdamaged by Snorunt's Ice Beam, even without factoring in NeverMeltIce. This means that Snorunt is more self-sufficient with far less investment when compared to Chimecho needing TMs to sufficiently hurt stuff. You mentioned that Hyper Potion + Calm Minding with Chimecho doesn't seem like much of an investment, but considering you've dumped your resources just to get Psychic on it, it's a hefty price that doesn't even give you returns, and instead adds more to the cost.

I also never mentioned that Snorunt needs to stay in Shoal Cave for the entirety of 10+ levels; it just needs to get Ice Beam and then it can branch out onto the sea routes and start Ice Beaming the water birds and Headbutting Tentacools, or even make quick work of the ocassional Bird Keeper you find along the way, since NeverMeltIce-boosted Ice Beam is likely to OHKO their birds, or you could do Icy Wind + Ice Beam for similiar effect. Meanwhile I am skeptical of Chimecho's Confusion being able to even OHKO Tentacools that aren't ~7 levels below, much less the Black Belts that have Revenge Machokes and fatass Hariyamas.

If you consider the time it takes to train up Snorunt to be a hassle, then imagine how most people would feel about 1) having a miniscule chance finding Chimecho, which can be a time investment on its own, 2) spending a shitload of cash for the Psychic TM, as well as preserving their Shock Wave and Calm Mind TMs, and 3) spending even more cash on Hyper Potions just to set up and contribute in important matchups. Step 2 is especially important as missing even a single part would render Chimecho damn well useless. The fact that you're willing to put up with Chimecho's heavy demands and yet give Snorunt flak for its one real ask (being leveling, which Chimecho is also rather guilty of) comes off as being somewhat biased, if you ask me.
 
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Of course you're putting the resources into buying Chimecho psychic. Devoting money and TMs for a pokemon is less severe of an investment than experience. Money, Calm Mind and Shock Wave are all resources that aren't in too high demand assuming that you aren't using grumpig or Gardevoir (which of course you aren't if you're using chimecho). And I have a hunch that you can afford 5 hyper potions by the time you hit the 8th gym...

For the third time, Chimecho can stay in F, but it doesn't stop Snorunt from being F tier material. You've written 3 angry paragraphs that do nothing to defend snorunt being in E tier beyond that he can "make quick work of the ocassional Bird Keeper you find."
 
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Clamperlcomes off as being somewhat biased, if you ask me.
whether you like it or not Chimecho's patch of grass is optional
It's unnerving to me that you and Orangeguru have to use snarky and accusatory language to debate. I'm arguing about a pokemon tier list, yet you're accusing me of being bias like I have some sort of anti-ice-type agenda. Please relax. I'm having a hard time writing neutral posts when I have to respond to stuff like this.
 
Of course you're putting the resources into buying Chimecho psychic. Devoting money and TMs for a pokemon is less severe of an investment than experience. Money, Calm Mind and Shock Wave are all resources that aren't in too high demand assuming that you aren't using grumpig or Gardevoir (which of course you aren't if you're using chimecho). And I have a hunch that you can afford 5 hyper potions by the time you hit the 8th gym...

For the third time, Chimecho can stay in F, but it doesn't stop Snorunt from being F tier material. You've written 3 angry paragraphs that do nothing to defend snorunt being in E tier beyond that he can "make quick work of the ocassional Bird Keeper you find."
I don't understand. What is your definition of an E tier pokemon then? Generally, money is a resource that contributes to efficiency much more than any other factor like experience from what I've observed in these in-game tier lists. This isn't to say that experience doesn't factor into a pokemon's efficiency, but I still don't see how Snorunt is in the same group as pokemon like Chimecho, Luvdisc or Bagon (a similarly hard-to-find pokemon like Chime).

P.S. I can't speak for Punchshroom, but I wasn't trying to be accusatory. However, when you seemingly ignore and misconstrue parts of our arguments and don't account for the main things holding Chimecho back (like a 2% encounter rate) for multiple posts, it does raise questions about bias.
 
It's unnerving to me that you and Orangeguru have to use snarky and accusatory language to debate. I'm arguing about a pokemon tier list, yet you're accusing me of being bias like I have some sort of anti-ice-type agenda. Please relax. I'm having a hard time writing neutral posts when I have to respond to stuff like this.
It's unnerving to me that you claim to want a decent debate, yet when criticisms of your arguments are brought up you prioritise being defensive over raising any actual counter-arguments. It's also unnerving to me that you would act much calmer when multiple times on this page and the last, you have misconstrued and shortened others' arguments for your own advantage - removing the context of Punchshroom's bias statement; removing the surrounding text of OrangeGuru's arguments for Snorunt to make it seem like TM reliance is the only point they were making - while many of your own arguments have vast amounts of theorymonning and as far as I can tell, rely on no actual experience.
I apologise if this post seems harsh, but a lot of your arguments are coming across as disingenuous and to some point disrespectful of others.
 
From what I seeing, even though Snorunt is a bad Pokemon, the reason the community placed it in E tier and something like Chimecho is placed in F tier is because of their reliance on TMs. Lets ignore things like grinding and encounter rate for right now. Snorunt, even though it starts off weaker than Chimecho statwise, has a much better level up movepool and doesn't require TMs to contribute. Even if you don't use the Psychic TM for Chimecho, it learns it at 46. It may have it at that point due to it being part of the "Fast" leveling group, but that means it had to deal with Confusion until right at the doors of the Pokemon League. Chimecho not only requires heavy one off or very expensive/time consuming TM usage to become "meh", it also has no advantageous matchup in the major battles it can take place in, especially if one is playing Sapphire as it doesn't like fighting Team Magma or Aqua due to their use of Dark types. Snorunt at the very least has an advantageous in a 1/3 of Sidney, a decent matchup against Phoebe due to naturally learning Crunch Drake, and a 1/3rd of Steven's Team (Cradily/Claydol can hit Glalie with super effective damage in Ancientpower, but Glalie can hit back harder with Ice Beam). These small niches Snorunt/Glalie have in the final battles have given it a status of "barely viable" among the community

Clamperl, I can see where you are coming from, (believe me, I posted reasons why I felt Rayquaza should have been S tier) but I can also see why people have agreed upon Snorunt to being E tier while Chimecho being F tier. I am also not stating whether either Pokemon belong in E or F, I'm just pointing out the observations I've seen in the thread. In a way, I see the tiers as such:

S Tier: Cream of the crop. Basically doing a disservice not using them. Even in their not as good matchups, they can still contribute very well to a fight.
A Tier: Very solid and strong mons. They have a notable flaw that stops them from being S Tier such as one or two really bad matchups, being High Risk, High Reward, or just found too late to contribute a huge amount to the rest of the game, despite their power/stats.
B Tier: Good Mons. Not as sturdy as A tier mons but may either have more strong matchups than weak matchups.
C Tier: These Pokemon tend to be found mid or mid-late game. They tend to have no bad, but no good matchups. They're alright.
D Tier: D stands for Decent. They may either be found pretty late into the game, have more bad matchups than good, or take a lot of investment to become good.
E Tier: I see this tier as mons that are barely viable. They just manage to squeeze out a niche in later battles or Pokemon that are found early and start off good, but fall off heavily once the late game comes around.
F Tier: Pretty much the antithesis to S tier mons. You're doing a disservice using them. They either have no good matchups, found simply too late to get any use or require heavy investment whether it's TMs, lots of healing items to contribute to fights.

All in all, these lists are formed by the community, sharing and discussing these Pokemon and how they fair in the toughest battles. It is not just one person's opinion. All one can really do is make a statement, list out points, and then hope that others can agree and support your statement. If they don't, you just have to shrug and deal with it, like I dealt with Rayquaza's A Tier placement.
 

Punchshroom

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Of course you're putting the resources into buying Chimecho psychic. Devoting money and TMs for a pokemon is less severe of an investment than experience. Money, Calm Mind and Shock Wave are all resources that aren't in too high demand assuming that you aren't using grumpig or Gardevoir (which of course you aren't if you're using chimecho). And I have a hunch that you can afford 5 hyper potions by the time you hit the 8th gym...
Shock Wave and Calm Mind are indeed not in particularly high demand, though Shock Wave does have some mild competition for any earlier mon that could make better use of it in the earlier stages of the game, rather than providing weak coverage for the later stretches of the game. The cash spent for the Psychic TM offers a bigger opportunity cost as well; at this point you'd likely only have the money to buy one Game Corner TM (or maybe not if you've spent too much money on Hyper Potions because of you-know-who, I'll get to that later), and the elemental beams offer much better late-game value in improving E4 matchups, rather than just letting a Pokemon play catch-up.

Also, if it were just a matter of coughing up the cash for the Psychic TM to make a Pokemon halfway decent, that would have been the end of it, but then you advocated a Calm Minding + Hyper Potion strategy since you yourself acknowledged that Chimecho has to do so just to win big battles. You definitely have to restock on the latter as 5 Hyper Potions are definitely not enough to get Chimecho through the remaining important fights (you might even use more than one per battle). At this point, it's far less resource-intensive to just pump X items into a Pokemon with a serviceable enough (or at least less expensive) movepool and get similiar if not better results; might as well grind Snorunt up that way instead.

For the third time, Chimecho can stay in F, but it doesn't stop Snorunt from being F tier material. You've written 3 angry paragraphs that do nothing to defend snorunt being in E tier beyond that he can "make quick work of the ocassional Bird Keeper you find."
Neither OrangeGuru nor I had any bad intent when we made our "accusations" or "angry retorts"; we were just telling it how it is to someone who kept skewing the power between Chimecho and Snorunt as well as the costs of raising them rather unfairly. In fact, your replys were far more venomous in comparison, to the point where one of the mods had to edit out one of your snarky remarks. So just chill out.

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Now for my own noms:

From D to E

I brought up Claydol earlier during my comparison of Chimecho and Snorunt's power, and I realized that Baltoy is placed rather high on the tier list. What exactly is this thing supposed to do? Its level-up movepool is garbage with pretty much nothing to look forward to, and even with 60-65 BP dual STABs in Psybeam and the Dig TM it's still incredibly weak, not to mention those moves will lag behind in power quite soon after you obtain Baltoy. To make matters worse, its evolution level is insanely high so it's stuck doing piss for damage for a long while, AND it has barely any favorable matchups for any of the subsequent gyms; its best hope for a good fight is using Shadow Ball against Tate & Liza, and even they could slow you down with Lunatone's Hypnosis, Solrock's SunnyBeam, as well as Xatu's Confuse Ray in Emerald. This mon is a chore to train up and barely contributes in important fights outside of blowing itself up, and if that's your modus operandi Baltoy/Claydol is not gonna keep that up for long as it lags behind in level. It doesn't even beat most route trainers comfortably; the only ones I can think of that Claydol matches up well against are the Bug trainers on the road to Fortree (though even then, Rock Tomb/Ancientpower don't let Baltoy clean them all in one go) and Team Aqua/Magma Grunts' Zubats & Numels.

The only reason I am keeping it out of F Rank is because things start to look up very slightly better in the E4. If you're willing to put both Ice Beam and Earthquake it fares well against Drake and Steven, respectively, and its 1v1 potential improves further if you teach Claydol Reflect, notably against Steven's Metagross. Baltoy obviously fares worse in Emerald because Wallace, though I guess it still has the option to blow up on something if it really comes down to it. However, the road it takes to get Baltoy to these levels of usefulness is so arduous that I don't have confidence in agreeing with Baltoy's current rank.
 
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In fact, your replys were far more venomous in comparison, to the point where one of the mods had to edit out one of your snarky remarks. So just chill out.
No mod edited that post... I initially had requested a more coherent post, but decided that the quotes themselves do enough to point out the difficult language.
[you've] shortened others' arguments for your own advantage - removing the context of Punchshroom's bias statement; removing the surrounding text of OrangeGuru's arguments for Snorunt to make it seem like TM reliance is the only point they were making
I quote snippits to respond to the sections that I take issue with. I'm removing no context by responding to the TM portion of his argument with a TM focused reply. If quotes were more frequently used, I probably wouldn't be accused of being "venomous"
a lot of your arguments are coming across as disrespectful of others.
Sigh...
when you don't account for the main things holding Chimecho back (like a 2% encounter rate) for multiple posts, it does raise questions about bias.
Chimecho can stay in F. Nevertheless, Snorunt has 14 levels of being awful which makes it comparable to Chimecho's drawbacks of poor encounter rate, TM reliance and so-so end game.
From what I seeing, even though Snorunt is a bad Pokemon, the reason the community placed it in E tier and something like Chimecho is placed in F tier is because of their reliance on TMs. Lets ignore things like grinding and encounter rate for right now. Snorunt, even though it starts off weaker than Chimecho statwise, has a much better level up movepool and doesn't require TMs to contribute. Even if you don't use the Psychic TM for Chimecho, it learns it at 46. It may have it at that point due to it being part of the "Fast" leveling group, but that means it had to deal with Confusion until right at the doors of the Pokemon League. Chimecho not only requires heavy one off or very expensive/time consuming TM usage to become "meh", it also has no advantageous matchup in the major battles it can take place in, especially if one is playing Sapphire as it doesn't like fighting Team Magma or Aqua due to their use of Dark types. Snorunt at the very least has an advantageous in a 1/3 of Sidney, a decent matchup against Phoebe due to naturally learning Crunch Drake, and a 1/3rd of Steven's Team (Cradily/Claydol can hit Glalie with super effective damage in Ancientpower, but Glalie can hit back harder with Ice Beam). These small niches Snorunt/Glalie have in the final battles have given it a status of "barely viable" among the community

Clamperl, I can see where you are coming from, (believe me, I posted reasons why I felt Rayquaza should have been S tier) but I can also see why people have agreed upon Snorunt to being E tier while Chimecho being F tier. I am also not stating whether either Pokemon belong in E or F, I'm just pointing out the observations I've seen in the thread.

All in all, these lists are formed by the community, sharing and discussing these Pokemon and how they fair in the toughest battles. It is not just one person's opinion. All one can really do is make a statement, list out points, and then hope that others can agree and support your statement. If they don't, you just have to shrug and deal with it, like I dealt with Rayquaza's A Tier placement.
For sure. It seems that I just have a different interpretation of what makes a pokemon efficient than others on the forum. I don't value snorunt's ability to contribute to some members of the elite 4 as enough of a pay off for the investment in leveling something so bad. "The flaws of these Pokémon completely mask whatever advantage they could possibly have" holds true for Snorunt.

EDIT:
Seeing now that Merritt, the OP, liked the post calling me venomous, I'm going to leave the discussion. I have no hope of making a positive change in this forum. Long live D tier lileep.
 
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OOF

Anyway, I’m sure no one wants to hear another hot take on Snorunt, but I’d summarise the issue as follows:

Snorunt requires quite a lot of investment and comes late in the game in an optional area. However, once that period is over, you have a Pokémon that has all the tools it needs to contribute pretty well in some of the most significant battles in the game. 13(RS)/11(E) of the 26 Pokemon used by the E4 and Champion are weak to either Ice Beam or Crunch (I know I know, that’s a shallow analysis of its matchups, but I think it’s notable). Glalie’s still not great, but the way I view the tiers it doesn’t take that much to lift a Pokémon from the F tier burial mound. The time you invest gives you a return in the endgame, with a mon that can hold its own without constant support.

For Chimecho however, as I understand it, you’re always investing. It has a better start than Snorunt, but it can’t do anything important at all without lengthy setup, including item usage. This is true from the time you obtain it right until the endgame. This isn’t even getting into the awful encounter rate, which could see an unlucky player spending over half an hour just to encounter a single Chimecho.

Agree with Baltoy to E. That level-up movepool is just awful, necessitating expensive or one-off TM options to give it offensive presence. A lot of babying is required to get you to Claydol, and while it has its uses, it’s a real drag most of the time. Solid stats overall as a Claydol save it from being complete trash.
 

Merritt

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EDIT:
Seeing now that Merritt, the OP, liked the post calling me venomous, I'm going to leave the discussion. I have no hope of making a positive change in this forum. Long live D tier lileep.
Yep, definitely was liking that post because of the response to you. Couldn't be because of the Baltoy nomination in the post, that would be absurd.

On the subject of Baltoy, this is more a question for Punchshroom but because you seem to feel that the main issue with Baltoy is the Baltoy stage itself, would you say that in Emerald it would be better to grab a Sky Pillar Claydol to skip it? Obviously this is extremely late to pick up a Pokemon as mediocre as Claydol and wouldn't justify D rank, but I'm curious whether or not you think that Baltoy's potential contributions earlier (mostly with Ice Beam and Shadow Ball TMs) make it worth picking up on route 111 anyways.
 

Punchshroom

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On the subject of Baltoy, this is more a question for Punchshroom but because you seem to feel that the main issue with Baltoy is the Baltoy stage itself, would you say that in Emerald it would be better to grab a Sky Pillar Claydol to skip it? Obviously this is extremely late to pick up a Pokemon as mediocre as Claydol and wouldn't justify D rank, but I'm curious whether or not you think that Baltoy's potential contributions earlier (mostly with Ice Beam and Shadow Ball TMs) make it worth picking up on route 111 anyways.
Emerald Claydol being catchable at a respectable level is counteracted by the fact that it's just less useful in Emerald. RS Claydol has a pretty favorable matchup against Steven and can get away with spamming Ice Beam vs Drake for the most part, but Emerald Drake has a Kingdra to stop Claydol while Wallace mops the floor with it.
 
First, this was already mentioned but buried under the last 2-3 nominations, so happy belated birthday to this thread!

Second, I agree with Baltoy to E. The D tier still looks a bit too big. By the way, are Swablu and Lileep also dropping?

Now for the actual post. Just like last time, here are two more psychic, fast-growing Pokemon that I think should move up from D.

Lunatone to B or C
Lunatone's early availability and fast growth rate makes it useful for a large part of the game.
Even though Lunatone's stats aren't good, its special attack is somewhat made up for by its movepool, and it's barely fast enough to outspeed a lot of opponents. In some way or another, it has a type advantage against 4 of the 5 gyms that come after it, as well as most of Wally's team, and its special bulk lets it help against Wallace despite the disadvantage. Lunatone's relatively easy access to strong STAB attacks makes it usable immediately after being caught and almost never stagnate. Ice beam forms a nice combination with psychic and lets Lunatone sweep Winona and Drake extra easily. It also gets psywave to hit steel Pokemon.
So I think Lunatone is probably the best rock Pokemon in the game, and it should be B tier or C tier because of its growth rate, movepool, and surprisingly good defensive typing.

Solrock to B or C
Solrock's early availability and fast growth rate makes it useful for a large part of the game.
Even though Solrock's stats aren't good, its physical attack is somewhat made up for by its movepool, and it's barely fast enough to outspeed a lot of opponents. In some way or another, it has a type advantage against 4 of the 5 gyms that come after it, as well as most of Wally's team. Solrock's relatively easy access to strong STAB attacks makes it usable immediately after being caught and almost never stagnate. Shadow ball forms a nice combination with rock slide and lets Solrock sweep Tate and Liza extra easily. It also gets psywave to hit steel Pokemon (and earthquake if you really hate Wally's Magneton?).
So I think Solrock is probably the best rock Pokemon in the game, and it should be B tier or C tier because of its growth rate, movepool, and surprisingly good defensive typing.
 

Merritt

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Not commenting too in depth on the nominations (although I disagree heavily on B rank Solrock or Lunatone, they genuinely don't clean particularly well), but I still don't understand your fascination with Psywave. Psywave is worse Seismic Toss or Night Shade. It's doing, on average, less than your level's worth of damage even before the terrible 80 accuracy. It's like toxic stalling, except slightly faster but requires that you spend turns actually attacking.

I cannot emphasize this enough. Psywave is an immensely terrible move.

Also I'll be moving Baltoy and Lileep down in the next couple days unless somebody provides a good reason otherwise.
 
Not commenting too in depth on the nominations (although I disagree heavily on B rank Solrock or Lunatone, they genuinely don't clean particularly well), but I still don't understand your fascination with Psywave. Psywave is worse Seismic Toss or Night Shade. It's doing, on average, less than your level's worth of damage even before the terrible 80 accuracy. It's like toxic stalling, except slightly faster but requires that you spend turns actually attacking.

I cannot emphasize this enough. Psywave is an immensely terrible move.
Psywave lets them beat a few steel Pokemon, though not particularly well or "efficiently". I know that no Pokemon will move up a tier just because of psywave; I just thought it would be worth mentioning because it's borderline useless rather than completely useless like most other moves are.
 

Merritt

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Psywave lets them beat a few steel Pokemon, though not particularly well or "efficiently". I know that no Pokemon will move up a tier just because of psywave; I just thought it would be worth mentioning because it's borderline useless rather than completely useless like most other moves are.
Quite literally the only Steel-type Pokemon where Psywave would be a decent option would be Steven's Aggron and (Lunatone only) Metagross. Everything else is on average hit harder by Flamethrower or Overheat from Solrock (even though they're TM only) or Ice Beam from Lunatone. You should also scratch Metagross from that list as well considering that Meteor Mash sends them both flying.

In short, the only functional target in major battles is the RS only Aggron. Who, if you were really that desperate to beat, can be taken out better by EQ. There are better things to run on both Solrock and Lunatone, don't waste a slot on Psywave.
 
In short, the only functional target in major battles is the RS only Aggron. Who, if you were really that desperate to beat, can be taken out better by EQ. There are better things to run on both Solrock and Lunatone, don't waste a slot on Psywave.
Solrock maybe has 4 better moves, but I thought Lunatone only got confusion, psychic, and ice beam (and earthquake only if no teammate can use it better). Was I supposed to use calm mind or explosion or something in that fourth slot?
Now that I mostly understand why Lunatone and Solrock with psywave are bad, what do you think about those two without psywave?
 
Solrock maybe has 4 better moves, but I thought Lunatone only got confusion, psychic, and ice beam (and earthquake only if no teammate can use it better). Was I supposed to use calm mind or explosion or something in that fourth slot?
Now that I mostly understand why Lunatone and Solrock with psywave are bad, what do you think about those two without psywave?
I would say still not good, and especially not worthy of B rank. I can't speak to Solrock, but I used Lunatone once and remember being really disappointed in it's damage output as it's stuck with Rock Throw and Confusion for STAB until level 37. Ice Beam + Calm Mind helps, but ehh it's pretty rough. You do have a good to decent matchup against gyms 4-6 just based on defensive typing, and can do well with the aforementioned Ice Beam against Drake, but damage output early is pretty bad considering your offensive type advantage against Flannery and Winona comes off of base 55 Attack stat and base 50 power Rock Throw (plus Winona has super effective Water Gun and Steel Wing to hit you with)
 
You do have a good to decent matchup against gyms 4-6 just based on defensive typing, and can do well with the aforementioned Ice Beam against Drake, but damage output early is pretty bad considering your offensive type advantage against Flannery and Winona comes off of base 55 Attack stat and base 50 power Rock Throw (plus Winona has super effective Water Gun and Steel Wing to hit you with)
Doesn't it get ice beam before Winona? As for Flannery, apparently confusion is better than rock throw because of Torkoal's frustratingly high physical defense.
 
Doesn't it get ice beam before Winona? As for Flannery, apparently confusion is better than rock throw because of Torkoal's frustratingly high physical defense.
Yes, you have access to Ice Beam (and it does shut down Altaria tho you shut down Altaria likely without Ice Beam too considering you resist fly and are immune to EQ anyways), but Pelipper and Skarmory don't particularly care about non-STAB, neutral Ice Beams. And the fact you have to resort to still weak, neutral confusions to handle Flannery kinda showcases how it's not a pokemon worthy of B
 
Yes, you have access to Ice Beam (and it does shut down Altaria tho you shut down Altaria likely without Ice Beam too considering you resist fly and are immune to EQ anyways), but Pelipper and Skarmory don't particularly care about non-STAB, neutral Ice Beams. And the fact you have to resort to still weak, neutral confusions to handle Flannery kinda showcases how it's not a pokemon worthy of B
Skarmory is a problem, but Lunatone's special stats are high enough to let it shrug off a few water guns and 1v1 Pelipper.
 

Karxrida

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In some way or another, [Lunatone/Solrock] has a type advantage against 4 of the 5 gyms that come after it, as well as most of Wally's team.
In R/S all of Norman's Pokémon have Faint Attack, and you're just throwing pebbles at him if you're using Solrock. That's not going to go well.

I don't think either space rock should rise. The movepool issues are pretty significant, plus they have a severe drop-off in usefulness towards the end of the game due to their typings.
 
In R/S all of Norman's Pokémon have Faint Attack, and you're just throwing pebbles at him if you're using Solrock. That's not going to go well.

I don't think either space rock should rise. The movepool issues are pretty significant, plus they have a severe drop-off in usefulness towards the end of the game due to their typings.
I think the movepool issue is only bad around Norman. Confusion and rock throw carries both through Mt. Chimney and Lavaridge Gym, and they get ice beam and shadow ball after beating Norman. (they can get psychic even earlier for P70000, but it's probably not worth it)
I don't think the drop-off is that severe. Lunatone's strong enough to handle some of Wallace's Pokemon, and they both have type advantages against Wally. Half of Sidney's team don't carry dark attacks, and Cacturne is pretty weak even though it does. Both are strong enough to beat 1 (maybe 2) of Phoebe's Pokemon despite the type disadvantage. Solrock has the advantage over Glacia and is neutral to Drake, and Lunatone works pretty well against Drake. They're both okay against Steven because Steven's movesets are so bad.
 

DHR-107

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I think the movepool issue is only bad around Norman. Confusion and rock throw carries both through Mt. Chimney and Lavaridge Gym, and they get ice beam and shadow ball after beating Norman. (they can get psychic even earlier for P70000, but it's probably not worth it)
I don't think the drop-off is that severe. Lunatone's strong enough to handle some of Wallace's Pokemon, and they both have type advantages against Wally. Half of Sidney's team don't carry dark attacks, and Cacturne is pretty weak even though it does. Both are strong enough to beat 1 (maybe 2) of Phoebe's Pokemon despite the type disadvantage. Solrock has the advantage over Glacia and is neutral to Drake, and Lunatone works pretty well against Drake. They're both okay against Steven because Steven's movesets are so bad.
After reading this it is clear you do not understand type matchups, level appropriateness or coverage on the opponents Pokemon and how they relate to efficiency in a run.

Lunatone can MAYBE set up on Luvdisc assuming it doesn't confusion hax you AND if you want to invest Calm Mind onto it (and a bunch of healing items). I'm not sure why you would bother when any token Grass/Electric can crash its way through the gym. If we don't compare it to anything else, its just massively inefficient against this gym (which is a downgrade in rank, not an upgrade). Lunatone comes off even worse vs Juan when you factor in Wallace only has Water Pulse and Juan packs Crabhammer Crawdaunt and Kingdra...

They both get beaten on HARD by Glacia though... Not sure what you are attempting to get at there. The Glalie's both pack Crunch which hurts Solrock more than Lunatone and you can barely (if you're very lucky) scrape an OHKO vs them with Rock Slide (with Solrock). The Sealeo's have Dive and Surf (one each), which again does a number to both Lunatone and Solrock unless you spend a lot of time Calm Minding while getting battered by SE attacks. Either way, in both fights they take a significant amount of babying to maybe force their way through. This is not a B Tier Pokemon. Both have poor matchups throughout the rest of the game (The few battles with Team Magma notwithstanding) and they should not be in the same tier as something as potent as Azumarill, Manectric or Machamp.

After the earlier conversation about Psywave and other comments you have made in other threads, I am giving you an official last warning. Past this point if I read or am told about another post by you which is offtopic, nonproductive or just clearly demonstrating a lack of knowledge, I will be giving you infractions for those posts and/or deleting them as I see fit. If I see genuine improvement in your posting behaviour/knowledge of the games then I will rescind this.
 
The Abra family seems to be a very popular pick for an S tier mon in most of the games that it is featured in, but in Gen 3's case, it doesn't have the absurd benefits of Gen 1 Psychic typing, nor does it have the easy access of the elemental punches like it does in Gen 2. If you want the elemental punches in RSE, you'd need to catch a Male Meditite/Medicham (which in it's earliest can be obtained at Mt. Pyre (it can't even be obtained in Emerald, obtain 3 heart scales for the elemental punches, then breed to obtain an Abra, which is an insane investment for how late in the game that is. Outside of this, Alakazam's only other special coverage without getting lucky with a Hidden Power is Shock Wave.

Personally, I feel for the ingame portion in many games, the Abra family is overrated. Alakazam does his extremely hard, naturally learns Calm Mind and it's very fast, but Gen 3 has more Psychic types, more Steel types, more Dark types and more specially defensive Pokemon than previous generations, which all give Alakazam a pretty tough time where it has to in most cases rely on Psychic coverage. I'm not saying Abra shouldn't be S tier, but I want to understand why Abra is S because right now I'm not seeing it. Is the combination of Psychic+Shock Wave really that potent that it can obliterate the entire game with very little issue?
 
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