SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword and Shield Datamine Thread

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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The publisher is the one giving the development money, without it, company fails. If company fails, every employee goes home.
... The publisher, as in Nintendo? As in the company they share ownership of The Pokemon Company with? As in the business that makes millions if not billions of dollars a year in merch sales as that's where most of the profit of Pokemon is made and not the games?

Or by publisher do you mean The Pokemon Company? As in the company GF owns partial ownership with Nintendo? As in the company who base all their products on the games GF makes? As in if they do as you suggest they're essentially also going to make themselves fail?

No matter what way you meant it, Nintendo/The Pokemon Company no longer funding/publishing GF's Pokemon games would be an incredibly STUPID thing to do and make absolutely no sense. And I ask you, what happens if something happens which results the next Pokemon game being delayed by a few months if not a year?
 
And I ask you, what happens if something happens which results the next Pokemon game being delayed by a few months if not a year?
Good luck dealing with the massive delay caused to all the anime and merchandise releases which are basically living off the yearly releases of the game's new generation.
You tell the TV that the pokemon show you scheduled for the next year wont air, if they want they can show replicas, which gets less views which equals to also less revenue from ads.
You tell the movie producer that they need to delay the release of their movie and thus pretty much all the income that comes with it on top of potential giveaways because "our developers were slow :) "
You also tell all the shops over the world that you can't send them / they can't sell that new gen 9 starter plushie they mass produced for 3 months and have to keep it in stock.

Enough to bankrupt Nintendo? Nah not really.

Enough to cause 10+ digits monetary loss? Hell yea probably more.

Since a few years, all of the gaming industry has been mostly taken over by publishers and their own schedules.
Game developers are basically victims.
We've seen plenty of huge cases like No Man's Sky, Kingdom Hearts 3, Cyberpunk, World of Warcraft, GTA (demakes kekw), even Persona suffering heavily from publishers demanding early releases and the product quality suffering to varying degree, from just having rushed aspects (like latest Persona entries or KH3) to having incomplete games sold as finished (like NMS or WoW) to borderline unplayable releases (like Cyberpunk or GTA demakes).
GameFreaks is definitely falling in the category of "they are forced to release rushed/incomplete games due to strict release schedules they have no say in".
These were just names off my head in this moment but if you have been on the internet recently you probably know the awful state videogame industry is in right now, and don't even get me started on NFTs and corporate greed taking over entire franchises.


Note again, this isnt exactly "defending" GF's lack of foresight on some of their shortcomings, being slow is one thing, being bad is another, and while I can condone the former, I can't condone releasing unfinished AND low overall quality products.
What I'm getting at is that their issue is refusing to expand and hire more people to deal with the strict deadlines, as "just release games less frequently" is just not happening because that's not how gaming industry works, expecially not for a franchise THIS big that heavily relies on their games to keep going.
 
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Pikachu315111

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Good luck dealing with the massive delay caused to all the anime and merchandise releases which are basically living off the yearly releases of the game's new generation.
You tell the movie producer that they need to delay the release of their movie and thus pretty much all the income that comes with it on top of potential giveaways because "our developers were slow :) "
... Have you seen the main anime lately? It doesn't give a f*** what the games are doing now. They made Ash win the Alola League so he can say he became Champion and then do whatever they want him to do. Heck, even by Alola they were having him just go to Trainer School and when they got boring had him and his schoolmates become Power Rangers.

And merch? Here is what the main page of both the English and Japanese store. Point to be something which has to do with the current games on there that isn't then drowned out by a few dozen other things just general Pokemon.

The movies? Yeah, they'll sure be affected by not doing the current gen stuff. I mean what would "I Choose You" and "The Power of Us" be without Alola? Or "Mewtwo Strikes Back Evolution" and "Secrets of the Jungle" be without Galar? And it's not like The Pokemon Company can whip up a new Pokemon just to be in a movie and they'll later make available in the next games, when have they ever done that? Man, if only Pokemon started experimenting releasing shorts and short series on Youtube and other video platforms to test to see if audiences would happily watch something that's not connected in anyway to the current gen as long as its good... or heavily leans on nostalgia.

They're not going to feel a THING if the main games take a year or two off from doing a yearly release. If anything it'll help them catch-up with their no doubt back catalog of plans which no doubt reach back for decades.

Enough to cause 10+ digits monetary loss? Hell yea probably more.
A billion dollar lost? Yeah sure, how about we drop that 1 and you'll be closer to how much money they'll lose.

We've seen plenty of huge cases like No Man's Sky, Kingdom Hearts 3, Cyberpunk, World of Warcraft, GTA (demakes kekw), even Persona suffering heavily from publishers demanding early releases and the product quality suffering to varying degree, from just having rushed aspects (like latest Persona entries or KH3) to having incomplete games sold as finished (like NMS or WoW) to borderline unplayable releases (like Cyberpunk or GTA demakes).
... Let's go over some of those:

No Man's Sky: Even if the publisher told Gareth Bourn to release the game earlier then he intended, there was no way it would have even lived up to the hype he originally created for it. It has taken YEARS for No Man Sky's to even start resembling the game that Bourn had promised before it's release, and even then its still improving and adding things. No Man's Sky was more of a victim of overhype but its creator promising everything, unless he planned on it being development hell as long as Star Citizen.

Kingdom Hearts 3: Okay, this is an example of executive meddling... but little from Square Enix. They surely told Nomura to get the game out there finally (and let's not give Nomura any leeway here, he was actually given plenty of time to expand his vision and obviously took too much advantage from it with all the side games he released; there was surely some poor management going on due to Nomura having spread himself thin), but you could just tell Disney decided to grab Nomura's hands while he was writing the story and went "here, let us HELP you write things you should including and not be doing". The only major thing I would be wondering if it was Square Enix's doing was the exclusion of Final Fantasy characters, though I also wouldn't be surprised if Disney just decided they wanted the game to mainly focus on the Disney and original characters so just vague references and Moogles.

Cyberpunk 2077: This was more of a victim of time and money than the publisher screwing the developer... cause they were one and the same. As much as CD Projeckt has become a big name in the gaming space, they're still relatively a small company not connected to a big company. While I'm sure they too work on multiple games, they have the BIG project and for the last few years that was Cyberpunk 2077. The majority of the studio was working on it, and when they hit a batch of problems they did delay the game... several times. It was meant for early 2020 and ended up delayed until later 2020. Unfortunately, while they probably wanted to delay it more, they couldn't. It was costing them and so they had to release the most stable version they can make to recoup their losses.

World of Warcraft: Once again, developer and publisher are the same. And from what I heard this issue with WoW is just that they kind of just stopped supporting it and giving it meaningful content to keep returning to (which is kind of a problem for a MMO). That is why you've heard about the mass exodus of WoW players to FF14, the players didn't feel their time (and money) spent wasn't being respected so moved to greener pastures which was FF14 that was getting constant meaningful content.

GTA Trilogy: From what I read this is more of an issue of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Rockstar gave the trilogy to Grove Street Games as they had previously made mobile versions of the trilogy and ported San Andreas to the PS3 and XBox 360. But that was over 10 years ago, technology moved on and older technology becomes incompatible. A combination of not having the original assets (Rockstar never saved them) and decisions to try and keep the games having their original feel, Grove Street Games face a lot of difficulty porting the trilogy to modern systems and, well, the GTA Trilogy is what we ended up with. They probably did have an agreed timeframe but I imagine it more went that Grove Street Games gave Rockstar what they had, Rockstar published it without really looking that hard into it, and disaster. One would wonder what would have happened in Rockstar did do some quality checking, would they have given them more time to fix it up and provide feedback? Who knows, Rockstar is too busy counting the billions it's making from GTA Online to pay attention to its smaller projects.

Persona: Not familiar enough with it to say anything definite. Are we talking about Persona 5? Cause I will note that Persona 5 was delayed a few times even more significantly than Cyberpunk, going from a later 2014 release to a late 2016.

And it's not like there weren't examples you couldn't pull. Heck, just look for any game published by EA or Activision Blizzard and you'll probably find a few good victims: Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age series is known to have this happened (BioWare just in general seems kicked around a lot by EA), Dead Space 3 (which did sell "well" and got critically praised... but not enough for EA to not kill the franchise and close down the studio), Titanfall, etc..

don't even get me started on NFTs and corporate greed taking over entire franchises.
Ugh, yes let's not. I've already seen one of the things I like dip into NFTs with disastrous results (but of course the parent company made lots of money off a cheap cash grab so of course they saw it as a success, uggh), please Pokemon (and Nintendo) don't start burning down your own forests (would kind of go against the message of Pokemon at some points).

What I'm getting at is that their issue is refusing to expand and hire more people to deal with the strict deadlines, as "just release games less frequently" is just not happening because that's not how gaming industry works, expecially not for a franchise THIS big that heavily relies on their games to keep going.
The last point can be argued against, but I will agree if GF wants to continue a yearly release they're going to have to hire more or at least reach out more. Hopefully the move closer to Nintendo will yield such benefits as they can just send a handful of developers down the block/across the street to help with at least the graphical details (and maybe teach them some better programming habits).
 
Well I'm glad that even if we disagree on some points, we both agree that the corporate meddling in gaming industry pushing lower quality cash grabs isnt just a "pokemon" thing and that GF's main problem is their absurd stubborness in not wanting to hire more people to actually just keep up with the schedule.

I do worry though for this though...
please Pokemon (and Nintendo) don't start burning down your own forests (would kind of go against the message of Pokemon at some points).
they've been several times dangerously dabbed in questionable territory... Pokemon Unite having released with significant skew toward "if you want to be competitive you're meant to spend money", lot of the mobile game releases being gachas dangerously played by kids, and even some of their latest decisions when it comes to the mainline are... iffy.
We all know that the way they structured Home didnt strike well with a lot of people, and while I don't mind it I cannot pretend it's perfect.
Sword and Shield being divided in DLCs has its benefits but also its share of problems, one of which the fact they did indeed sell a unfinished game for a full AAA price tag.

At this point maybe going for NFTs would be for the best, at least the franchise would finally die :blobwizard:
 

Pikachu315111

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At this point maybe going for NFTs would be for the best, at least the franchise would finally die :blobwizard:
Actually it would have an opposite effect with a ton of negative consequences.

Pokemon and Nintendo entering the NFT space will likely generate them several billion dollars selling the NFTs, and since they're popular franchises the illusion of value NFTs have will them be looked upon as a prime investment surely to keep raising in price as the idea of a "Pokemon Metaverse" swirls around the NFT community like Covid in a super spreader rally. :facepalm:

But it won't just stay there, cause it would certainly catch the eyes of business analysts who would think this as a legitimizing moment for NFTs.
And even if the veteran players and those against NFTs protest and not buy the games... the general audience and notably kids won't care and still keep buying the games and merch. :blobpensive:
The only thing keeping that from happening is ethics and morality... be very afraid. :psycry:
 
What I'm getting at is that their issue is refusing to expand and hire more people to deal with the strict deadlines, as "just release games less frequently" is just not happening because that's not how gaming industry works, expecially not for a franchise THIS big that heavily relies on their games to keep going.
Hiring more developers doesn't make development easier. In a lot of cases, it actually makes it harder. I took a class on this in college and the issue is that for every new developer you add, you require more and more communication channels to be established. In a team of 30 developers for example, adding 1 new developer requires 30 additional communication channels to be established between that developer and other members of the team. In a team of 100, adding 1 member requires 100 new communication channels to be established. Communication is important since otherwise, stuff doesn't get done.
 
Hiring more developers doesn't make development easier. In a lot of cases, it actually makes it harder. I took a class on this in college and the issue is that for every new developer you add, you require more and more communication channels to be established. In a team of 30 developers for example, adding 1 new developer requires 30 additional communication channels to be established between that developer and other members of the team. In a team of 100, adding 1 member requires 100 new communication channels to be established. Communication is important since otherwise, stuff doesn't get done.
You're not "wrong", but when you're failing to meet deadlines, if you aren't able to go for quality, you have to go for quantity.
Alternative is to just literally maintain the status quo and solve nothing.
 

Upstart

Copy Cat
You guys are all circling, but missing the point. The contractual way gamefreak, pokemon company, and Nintendo is set up provides gamefreak only with ~1/3 of game revenue with merch and movie sales shared by poke co and Nintendo. We can ask for more developers or more time, but it really boils down to gamefreak needs a better share of the pot to actually show off their skills. ... But merch makes much much much more money than games, so games have sadly become a means of pushing merch at Gamefreak's and gamers' expense.
 
You guys are all circling, but missing the point. The contractual way gamefreak, pokemon company, and Nintendo is set up provides gamefreak only with ~1/3 of game revenue with merch and movie sales shared by poke co and Nintendo. We can ask for more developers or more time, but it really boils down to gamefreak needs a better share of the pot to actually show off their skills. ... But merch makes much much much more money than games, so games have sadly become a means of pushing merch at Gamefreak's and gamers' expense.
Last I checked we don't actually know the real share split between GF and TPCI.

You may be very well right eh, but I don't think we actually know any detail other than "Pokemon IP was originally owned in equal parts by GF, Creature Inc and Nintendo, and now that Creature Inc is dead, good chance Nintendo acquired their third".
TPCI itself was created in order to actually manage a franchise that became SO BIG that it needed an independant-ish company to handle everything.

(Which if correct actually puts GF in a very bad position as Nintendo would be now major shareholder so tecnically having all the decisional power, and we know as much as they do that if GF ever loses Pokemon, the company is hecking dead)
 
incidentally the creatures website still lists them as partners and that they're part of The Pokemon Company
and still listed in all modern copyright info, on all sites.


I guess what I'm saying is this isn't the first time I've heard this but I don't think its like...they're dead? Or disbaned. Or absorbed, really. I think they just wanted the Partnership page to focus on things that are not the traditional games which is why the four currently listed are Legendary (partnered with for an international movie), DENA (partnered with for a mobile game), Niantic (partnered with for a different mobile game) and Original Stitch (partnered for a specific line of clothing).
They also don't mention, like, gamefreak. Or nintendo. Or even Toho, who I presume to be their current distributor/producer/whatever of their Pokemon films from 6 to 23. Or things like takaratomy who handles a ton of their toys.

e: Well I was definitely on the TPC & Creatures website for that entire escapade and not the gamefreak one, which i see does only list Shokogokan, Nintendo & The Pokemon Company, but my point still broadly stands and maybe we shouldn't be leaping to conclusions on the standing of these things especially when dealing with subsidiaries of other companies.
 
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e: Well I was definitely on the TPC & Creatures website for that entire escapade and not the gamefreak one, which i see does only list Shokogokan, Nintendo & The Pokemon Company, but my point still broadly stands and maybe we shouldn't be leaping to conclusions on the standing of these things especially when dealing with subsidiaries of other companies.
Oh I mostly agree, what I wanted to say is that we have no idea of how the "deals" between Nintendo and GameFreaks are.
There's no official statement anywhere about how they divide the revenue as far as I know, so anything is just speculation
 
I'm obviously not a business specialist but I thought owning 33% of a company automatically entitled you to 33% of that company's earnings? This would mean GF does get money from TPC's merchandise sales.
 
I'm obviously not a business specialist but I thought owning 33% of a company automatically entitled you to 33% of that company's earnings? This would mean GF does get money from TPC's merchandise sales.
Nope that's not really how it works.

Owning part of the company only gives you rights to harass in the company's decision making. The way the earning are divided isn't "just" based off the amount of shares you own. Just because you buy 5% of Activision Blizzard shares doesnt mean you just earned 5% of 68 billion dollars.
 

Pikachu315111

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So I was trying to find anywhere how good are relations between GameFreak and Nintendo were (I heard they weren't that great, GF/TPC being somewhat difficult to work with thus why Pokemon doesn't cross over as much with other Nintendo stuff (like Animal Crossing items) and when it does we get oddities like Mario Maker's Pokemon costume not having sound effects from the series) when I found this article (it is from 2017 but I feel much of the information in it wouldn't have changed):

Who Owns Pokémon? Junichi Masuda Answers The Big Question

Here are some of the notable quotes from it:

It started with Nintendo, Game Freak and Creatures. In short, Nintendo is responsible for selling the games, Game Freak is responsible for developing all the main Pokémon games, and Creatures used to act as a producer – although they now mainly look after the Pokémon Trading Card Game.

“Game Freak? We develop all the main Pokémon games. Originally, Creatures, they were the producers of the game. Nintendo was the seller of the games – the distributor. So that was the original structure of Pokémon games. In terms of who owns the rights to the games, it’s these three companies,” Masuda explained.
So if things haven't changed, I'm going to guess there's likely an agreement that GF are the makers of the mainline series (aka signed papers). Even if Nintendo owns 2/3rds of The Pokemon Company, they can't pick another company or develop a mainline series games themselves; at least without GF's approval. And even if there's a clause that would let Nintendo take control, the clause is likely based on the amount of the games sold which has never been a problem for Pokemon titles. I would maybe also hazard a guess there's an agreement that, unless the games start selling poorly, Nintendo have an obligation to sell the games even if GF and Nintendo aren't seeing eye-to-eye. All speculation of course, but when it comes to a 3-company ownership of a major franchise I imagine every little detail of the relationship and roles of the company are gonna be written down and what they can't and cannot do.

He adds: “It’s a little more complicated than that in certain scenarios, like for example, the producing role that Creatures originally held went to The Pokémon Company, and a percentage of the rights went with that so there are certain complications, and it depends on the project, but there is no situation where Nintendo and The Pokémon Company will put pressure on Game Freak or something like that.”
it depends on the project, but there is no situation where Nintendo and The Pokémon Company will put pressure on Game Freak or something like that.
there is no situation where Nintendo and The Pokémon Company will put pressure on Game Freak or something like that.
Freakin'. Smoking. Gun.

I told you. I told you that it was mainly GF's decision to do yearly releases (Nintendo and TPC could have asked, but GF would be the ones who would have to agree). And here it is, in black-on-white text, clear as day, straight from the man himself, Nintendo nor TPC puts pressure on GF to make decisions.

“Everyone really knows Nintendo; there is a familiarity with the brand, and they have that really strong brand and Pokémon being associated with that and being affiliated with that brand is very important,” he continues.

But, is there a chance that Pokémon could eventually come to other platforms? Masuda doesn’t believe that is likely to ever happen.

“With Pokémon, at least, we really feel it is really important to be with Nintendo, specifically with the Pokémon titles, so I don’t think that would ever happen,” Masuda closed.
Now this is an interesting one. From what it sounds like, GF may have the power to develop a Pokemon game for another company outside of Nintendo? This would be a very strange ability for them to have, with Nintendo owning part of TPC and agreements they made would have no doubt said Pokemon is a semi-Nintendo property.
 
That's an interesting research, so at this point, assuming Masuda's words were truthful, I do wonder if the stress for the yearly releases is... on GameFreaks themselves.

Like, it's possible Nintendo isnt actually "demanding" the yearly releases, but after 20 years of yearly releases, GF may be too scared to be "dishonorable" and not manage to.

Considering we're talking of Japanese companies, I don't actually see this speculation as impossible...

(I still believe Masuda was lieing, though. It'd not exactly be the first time he has purposely twisted his words to hide something *cough cough dexit*, and I have a very hard time to believe that if they went to Nintendo and said "btw we can't release gen 9 until 2024" Nintendo would smile back and say "Don't worry take your time :) ")
 

Upstart

Copy Cat
So I was trying to find anywhere how good are relations between GameFreak and Nintendo were (I heard they weren't that great, GF/TPC being somewhat difficult to work with thus why Pokemon doesn't cross over as much with other Nintendo stuff (like Animal Crossing items) and when it does we get oddities like Mario Maker's Pokemon costume not having sound effects from the series) when I found this article (it is from 2017 but I feel much of the information in it wouldn't have changed):

Who Owns Pokémon? Junichi Masuda Answers The Big Question

Here are some of the notable quotes from it:



So if things haven't changed, I'm going to guess there's likely an agreement that GF are the makers of the mainline series (aka signed papers). Even if Nintendo owns 2/3rds of The Pokemon Company, they can't pick another company or develop a mainline series games themselves; at least without GF's approval. And even if there's a clause that would let Nintendo take control, the clause is likely based on the amount of the games sold which has never been a problem for Pokemon titles. I would maybe also hazard a guess there's an agreement that, unless the games start selling poorly, Nintendo have an obligation to sell the games even if GF and Nintendo aren't seeing eye-to-eye. All speculation of course, but when it comes to a 3-company ownership of a major franchise I imagine every little detail of the relationship and roles of the company are gonna be written down and what they can't and cannot do.





Freakin'. Smoking. Gun.

I told you. I told you that it was mainly GF's decision to do yearly releases (Nintendo and TPC could have asked, but GF would be the ones who would have to agree). And here it is, in black-on-white text, clear as day, straight from the man himself, Nintendo nor TPC puts pressure on GF to make decisions.



Now this is an interesting one. From what it sounds like, GF may have the power to develop a Pokemon game for another company outside of Nintendo? This would be a very strange ability for them to have, with Nintendo owning part of TPC and agreements they made would have no doubt said Pokemon is a semi-Nintendo property.
You see that's the sad beauty of the Chinese finger trap Nintendo placed Gamefreak:
GF can make games whenever they want, but...
1. GF doesn't recieve the majority of revenue of their games or the merch it pushes
2. Thus, GF must push games as quickly as possible to continue to draw revenue to demonstrate value to investors
3. New games = new merch = happy Nintendo

So Nintendo doesn't have to "force" gamefreak to make new games. But Gamefreak needs to make new poke games to keep their company profitable. So in the end, is it really Gamefreak's choice?
 
I mean, I always assumed that the yearly release schedule was less about nebulous 'pressure from upstairs' and more a calculated and clear-eyed business decision: having frequent, underwhelming game releases for a series like Pokemon probably just generates more money than if they took the time to do each entry 'properly', both in terms of game sales and in terms of regularly stimulating merch sales and other media. Even if new Pokemon aren't as popular as the old favourites for plushes etc I have to imagine that the buzz that accompanies each release boosts revenue across the board.

"But why erode your own brand by building a reputation for middling games? Doesn't that jeopardise future profits?" I mean, the priorities of businesses and investors don't always seem to make sense, even through the lens of their own self-interest. However, more profit in the short term is generally what these people want. It offers more immediate security and gives you more money to leverage for reinvestment.
 
"But why erode your own brand by building a reputation for middling games? Doesn't that jeopardise future profits?" I mean, the priorities of businesses and investors don't always seem to make sense, even through the lens of their own self-interest. However, more profit in the short term is generally what these people want. It offers more immediate security and gives you more money to leverage for reinvestment.
an unfortunate fact is that this line of thought is precisely what's destroying the industry as of late. Publishers and investors are more interested in the immediate revenue than in long term goals.

Investors can always pull out if something goes wrong in 3 months. The workers, not so much sadly
 
If your issue with Pokemon is that it doesn't change its core gameplay loop play a different game lmao
I think the issue isn't that the core gameplay doesn't change, it's that it doesn't change AND we keep getting features cut. SWSH was the tipping point where the cut content was the Pokémon themselves. If we aren't even getting the full dex what are we getting? Well Gamefreak themselves stated it was to focus on animation quality. So... why do the games look a decade old?

I'm willing to accept sub par animations but they have to, you know, at least finish the damn game if they're going to do that. No one plays Pokémon for the graphics but if they cut Pokémon from the game code to improve graphics they should probably do what they promise.
 

Codraroll

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You guys are all circling, but missing the point. The contractual way gamefreak, pokemon company, and Nintendo is set up provides gamefreak only with ~1/3 of game revenue with merch and movie sales shared by poke co and Nintendo. We can ask for more developers or more time, but it really boils down to gamefreak needs a better share of the pot to actually show off their skills. ... But merch makes much much much more money than games, so games have sadly become a means of pushing merch at Gamefreak's and gamers' expense.
One third of the money made by Pokémon games is still a heck of a lot of money. Even if you don't count merchandise.

Consider Xenoblade Chronicles 2, for instance. It's a fairly well-known game with a big-ish budget behind it, it gained mostly positive reviews, is Monolith Soft's best-selling game so far. I'd say it is a reasonably successful game, and graphically it's a few dozen steps ahead of Pokémon.

It sold 2 million copies. Barely a tenth of Sword and Shield. For a lower average unit price too, I might add, considering SwSh's DLC. Yet it's still hailed as a commercial success. Any game studio outside of the triple-A sphere would consider such sales a very good result.

Or take Monster Hunter Rise. Eight million copies sold. One third of SwSh, and the developer seems to be jumping with joy over those numbers. If Game Freak were to receive one third of the money from Sword and Shield (which I'd consider unrealistically low, given that they made the game), they'd still make as much as Capcom made on Monster Hunter Rise. And looking at the two games side by side, I would be horribly surprised if SwSh's budget was even remotely comparable to MHR's.

Want another comparison? Resident Evil Village. It was a bit of a big deal when it came out a couple of years back. Five million copies sold. Less than a quarter of Sword and Shield.

The Pokémon media empire is huge and merchandise revenue dwarfs out the money the games make. That's true. But that doesn't mean the games are "side ventures" in any way. It's not like Game Freak barely sustains themselves on the game revenue. Even if they only saw one third of the revenue from each game, their slice of the pie would still be up there with many AAA titles, and as repeatedly stated, they release a game every year. Take the aforementioned Monster Hunter series by Capcom. One third the sales of Pokémon, and games released every three years. On average it would take the studio three installments to match the sales of one Pokémon game, and in the meantime Game Freak would have released six or seven pairs of games.

So yeah, the games are a small part of Pokémon's total revenue - but they are still insanely profitable. Their profit margins are presumably a well-guarded secret, but it would surprise me if any other game franchise (outside the mobile market) come anywhere close. They pop out new instalments annually, yet each of them sells like an AAA title with seven years of dev time by hundreds of people. Pokémon's "sales per year" figure must be off the charts, because the franchises that can even compete in terms of "sales per installment" take many years between each game. Game Freak meets those numbers annually.

That's partially why their subpar quality is starting to annoy people, I guess. Insane money is being made, and it's put toward games that wouldn't have stood out much on consoles two generations ago.

If your issue with Pokemon is that it doesn't change its core gameplay loop play a different game lmao
The core gameplay loop is not the problem, really. As proven by our continued dedication to the series, it is a very enjoyable one, and it's reinforced by solid mechanics. If there hadn't been any fun at the core, we wouldn't have kept playing. But the execution feels stuck in the past.

Take the order in which things happen during battles, for instance. By that I don't mean the concept of turn-based battles, but rather the information flow. It's incredibly linear and stilted, usually experienced as "Animation plays out, then a text box appears that explains the animation, then an animation for a side effect plays out, then a text box explaining the effect pops up, then the next animation plays" and there are minimal options to skip past any of it. For a concrete example, try walking through a cave, without Repels, with a Pokémon whose ability is Intimidate at the start of your party. So many instances of repeated animations and messages you've seen a bajillion times before, just so you can get to the "get away" button and walk a few steps to experience the same thing over again.

Or take navigation in the overworld. We're looking at quite tiny, bland environments, sparsely populated with creatures with limited animations (and NPCs that are even worse in that regard), that pop in and out of existence a few meters away, with minimal interaction with each other or their surroundings. Not that you can do much of that yourself, either. Your options are mostly limited to running into things, or pressing one "interact" button that barely involves any animations.

And the less we say about cutscenes, the better. In every way.

It's not difficult to see where the frustration is coming from. We constantly see other games, from lesser-known franchises, that put down bigger budgets and more dev times to make games that look vastly better than Pokémon, and sustain themselves without selling a fraction of what Game Freak does. When playing the Pokémon games you will still have a lot of fun, but it's getting difficult to ignore that they could have been executed so much better (both in light of the state of the industry and the available resources to develop the games). It's hard not to ask yourself why they aren't. And I'm finding it increasingly difficult to come up with an answer to this question that doesn't frustrate me to heck and back.
 
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But the execution feels stuck in the past.

Take the order in which things happen during battles, for instance. By that I don't mean the concept of turn-based battles, but rather the information flow. It's incredibly linear and stilted, usually experienced as "Animation plays out, then an animation for a side effect plays out, then a text box explaining the effect pops up, then the next animation plays" and there are minimal options to skip past any of it.
Ironically, it might be better off being more stuck in the past. I remember watching some footage of Gens 1 and 2 and thinking "wow, the flow of information is so much smoother than in modern games". I wish I could remember what specific area the Game Boy games did well (probably multihits, they're the most glaring weak point of modern games), but when they remade things for Gen 3, they made things worse.

EDIT: Now I remember, it's multihits in the Stadium games. Each hit comes right after another, and the camera angle changes each time to make it more dynamic, like "wham, wham, wham"
 
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RoiDadadou

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I really enjoy watching everyone talking about game direction.

But we're in the datamine/leaks thread, would be nice to discuss all the new Mons.

I think I saw information about abilities being coded in Home for them, even if PLA doesn't have any, just like Melmetal.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I do wonder if the stress for the yearly releases is... on GameFreaks themselves.

Like, it's possible Nintendo isnt actually "demanding" the yearly releases, but after 20 years of yearly releases, GF may be too scared to be "dishonorable" and not manage to.

Considering we're talking of Japanese companies, I don't actually see this speculation as impossible...
It's like I've been saying that this entire time...

(I still believe Masuda was lieing, though. It'd not exactly be the first time he has purposely twisted his words to hide something *cough cough dexit*, and I have a very hard time to believe that if they went to Nintendo and said "btw we can't release gen 9 until 2024" Nintendo would smile back and say "Don't worry take your time :) ")
GF: btw we can't release gen 9 until 2024
Nintendo: How long are you going to delay it?
GF: A few months, a year at most.
Alright, just keep us updated on progress. The Pokemon Company has stuff on the backburner they've been wanting to get too. Man, it's a good thing as major companies of a major franchise we have multiple back-up plans at the ready in case delays have to happen.


You see that's the sad beauty of the Chinese finger trap Nintendo placed Gamefreak:
GF can make games whenever they want, but...
1. GF doesn't recieve the majority of revenue of their games or the merch it pushes
2. Thus, GF must push games as quickly as possible to continue to draw revenue to demonstrate value to investors
3. New games = new merch = happy Nintendo

So Nintendo doesn't have to "force" gamefreak to make new games. But Gamefreak needs to make new poke games to keep their company profitable. So in the end, is it really Gamefreak's choice?
GF: Hey, Pokemon Company we owe a third of, we kind of hit a hiccup and need some more money to make the next Pokemon games.
TPC: How much?
GF: A few million.
*Reaches under desk and throws them a sack of cash filled with a few million* Here, you can have that, we were just using it as a footrest. Afterall it's only like 1% of the total earnings we get each year. BTW Nintendo told us the game had to go through some delays, like them keep us updated so we know when we can launch the new merch, infact since we got them early we're thinking of maybe releasing some early to build up hype for the game, that way when the games come out we can release the full line soon after and that'll sell even more merch had we waited until release. So you make sure to make those teaser trailers enticing and new Pokemon looking good.


But we're in the datamine/leaks thread, would be nice to discuss all the new Mons.
Ugh, we don't want to be spoiled? We'll discuss the new mons when the games are officially released and we get to witness them for the first time ourselves.
 

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