• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mewtwo @ Focus Sash
Timid
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Grass Knot
-Thunder
-Psychic
-Aura sphere

Kyogre @ Lum berry
Modest
252 SpA/ 252Spe/ 4SpD
-Water Spout
-Protect
-Ice Beam
-Thunder


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Timid
252SpA/ 252Spe/ 4Hp
-Thunder
-Heat Wave
-Substitute
-Detect


Snorlax @ Sitrus berry
Brave
252Hp/ 252Atk/ 4SpD
-Return
-Selfdestruct
-crunch
-Earthquake
 
I don't like that setup really. Not the idea I had in mind.
Where trying to help you. You can't just say "I don't like that" and expect us to come running w/ more ideas. You test it out and do calculations. Were only here to give suggestions. If you don't like it, fix it yourself.

Anyway....

As I mentioned earlier, you don't need Thunder on 3 Pokemon.

Psychic doesn't hit much outside of Toxicroak for SE, but you have a choice between coverage and STAB. It's up to you. Replacing Thunder on Mewtwo would be a good option, seeing both Kyogre and Zapdos can use it better, Mewtwo doesn't need it to hit ogre considering he has Grass Knot, and that Rain won't always be up.

Your Timid Mewtwo will take away:
61-72.3% against no Sp Defense EV no HP EVs Mewtwo (over half of Mewtwo in the VGC) w/ Shadow Ball

45.8-54% against the same Mewtwo w/ Thunder. Since you have Grass Knot, I am not sure what else you want to hit...

64.9-76.6% on Kyogre w/ 4 HP EVs and 0 Sp Defense EVs and a timid/modest nature using Grass Knot.

Thunder takes away the exact same amount of damage from the exact same Kyogre. 64.9-76.6%.

Grass Knot also has an added bonus of hitting Groudon hard, so Thunder is unnecessary.

Kyogre is supposed to be slow to get rain up:

Kyogre @ Lum Berry
Quiet Drizzle
252 Sp Attack, 252 HP, 6 Sp. Defense

~Surf
~Protect
~Thunder
~Ice Beam


I can't say anything about Zapdos, because of his limited Move pool. The only other attacks he gets are U-Turn (not very useful in doubles) Signal Beam (doesn't hit anything bar Mewtwo) adn Extransitory (Like Mewtwo w/ Psychic. Doesn't hit anything but Toxicroak, but since Zapdos has no STAB for it....). Drill Peck is an option. It hits Ludicolo/Toxicroak as well as all the chlorophyll Pokemon on Sun teams, but Heat Wave can take most of the same Pokemon, so it doesn't help outside of Ludicolo/Toxicroak. Substitute seems like the best option right now.


Snorlax seems pretty standard. I can't see too many issues w/ him at the moment.
 
Mewtwo @ Expert Belt/Focus Sash
Modest or Timid
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Grass Knot
Shadow Ball
Protect
Aura Sphere

Kyogre @ Lum Berry
Quiet
252 SpA/ 252 HP / 4 SpD
Surf
Protect
Ice Beam
Thunder

Zapdos @ Leftovers
252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 Hp
Timid
Thunder
Heat Wave
Detect
Substitute

Snorlax @Sitrus berry
Brave
252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Return
Selfdestruct
Earthquake
Crunch

So now I gotta get the team ready and do practice battles.

Quick question. When I open with Mewtwo/Kyogre. Should Kyogre be using Surf/Thunder or Protect on the first turn? Because most people will try and take out Kyogre before Mewtwo correct?

edit: actually I was looking and I have nobody holding Life Orb. Someone really should have Life Orb.
 
I am having second thoughts about my team. Right now, it is:
Kyogre Toxicroak
Palkia Scizor

Both Toxicroak and Scizor are too fragile to take most attacks (bar Dragon attacks on Scizor usually) and Kyogre is so slow to set up rain that he becomes more of a liability than an asset. Palkia seems like the only functional one on the team.

I like the idea of having a Mewtwo lead instead of Kyogre, but what would I pair it with? And who would be my back up alongside Palkia?

I have alot of options, but I don't know which ones to go with. Can anyone help or at least give me a pointer or two?
 
I am having second thoughts about my team. Right now, it is:
Kyogre Toxicroak
Palkia Scizor

Both Toxicroak and Scizor are too fragile to take most attacks (bar Dragon attacks on Scizor usually) and Kyogre is so slow to set up rain that he becomes more of a liability than an asset. Palkia seems like the only functional one on the team.

I like the idea of having a Mewtwo lead instead of Kyogre, but what would I pair it with? And who would be my back up alongside Palkia?

I have alot of options, but I don't know which ones to go with. Can anyone help or at least give me a pointer or two?
Mewtwo/Abomasnow is a good opening team. Hail and spam blizzard.
 
Patraic i suggest giving Taunt to Mewtwo instead of Protect.
Weather he runs protect or Taunt mainly depends on who will be on the feild w/ Mewtwo. If it's Kyogre or Snolax, than it's better to keep Protect so Snorlax and Kyogre can Explode and Surf whenever they need to. Or, if he's sent out w/ Ogre, then you can run Taunt and just use Muddy Water. Keep in mind Muddy Water's accuracy, though....but Taunt can still be an option.


I have alot of options, but I don't know which ones to go with. Can anyone help or at least give me a pointer or two?
When you said "I have a lot of options", you hit the nail on the head. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Mewtwo is an incredibly variant Pokemon, and will usually fit quiet well on any team bar TR. As such, it's kind of hard to say you will use Mewtwo, and base a team completely on that. You can base a team around Mewtwo, but just saying Mewtwo will be on your team will not narrow down your options.

The only real constant on Mewtwo is Grass Knot. Everyone picks Grass Knot because it hits Kyogre and Groudon harder than Solarbeam and Thunder, especially since Grass Knot can be used in any weather and to hit both of them for SE. That, and a lot of people use Protect on Mewtwo to further broaden the number of Pokemon he can Partner w/, allowing to partner w/ a Pokemon like Meatgross, Zapdos, and Kyogre, who will eventually need to use an attack that hits everyone on the field, including their partner. This is especially true on Pokemon like Snorlax and Meta, who will have to Explode as soon as their HP starts to dwindle, because they usually won't be able to outrun the opposing Pokemon in time to blow before being KO'd.

When you say a backup for Palkia, you mean another sweeper who can come in after he is KO'd? If that's the case, then it depends on weather or not you will keep a rain dance team. If you plan on keeping a rain team, than Ludicolo or Zapdos might work. If not, than you have even more options, like Lati@s, Infernape, and Garchomp.

A Pokemon like Toxicroak can't really take any attacks too well, just like Shiftry and Ludicolo (although, Ludi does have good Sp Defense). Toxicroak's main niche is being able to take no damage from Kyogre's Surf, finish weakened Pokemon w/ Sucker Punch, take out Dailga, Abomasnow, and T-Tar w/ STAB Cross Chop or Low Kick, and lastly, to Fake Out and give his partner a chance to do what it needs to do.

If you have Grass Knot on Mewtwo, and not make Kyogre your lead, then you might not need to make Kyogre slow. You can have your 2 leads able to function w/ or w/o rain up, take out opposing weather inducers, then switch Kyogre in to get a guaranteed rain later on in the battle, no matter what your speed.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend testing VGC teams on PBR random wi-fi battles. A lot of the teams focus on different rules than VGC on PBR, and over half the stuff on random battles will never be encountered in VGC (like Roar of Time Dialga) because a lot of those teams are being tested out for different tiers, different tournaments, etc.
 
Yeah Surf and selfdestruct makes me not want to use taunt. If I had Taunt AND protect I could taunt the enemies then protect and explode on them. I'd rather NOT have mewtwo with a moveset of...

Taunt
Protect
Grass Knot
Aura Sphere / Shadow Ball
 
Hey, how does Me First work? Does it use the "Me First user's" attack, or the pokemon being copied? Based of what I can get from Smogon it is based off the Me First user's attack, and will target a random opponent with the new move.

Imagine something like..

Mewtwo @ Life Orb (or Choice Scarf)

Me First
Selfdestruct
Protect
filler

Paired with something like Kyogre (Water Spout!) or even Smeargle loaded to the ass with deadly moves. I'm not sure what happends if you Me First Dark Void..

Smeargle won't do any real damage to Mewtwo if Smeargle is EVed to not. With minimum attack and some other targets to hit Earthquake will do no more then 3% damage to Mewtwo.
 
Hey, how does Me First work? Does it use the "Me First user's" attack, or the pokemon being copied? Based of what I can get from Smogon it is based off the Me First user's attack, and will target a random opponent with the new move.

Imagine something like..

Mewtwo @ Life Orb (or Choice Scarf)

Me First
Selfdestruct
Protect
filler

Paired with something like Kyogre (Water Spout!) or even Smeargle loaded to the ass with deadly moves. I'm not sure what happends if you Me First Dark Void..

Smeargle won't do any real damage to Mewtwo if Smeargle is EVed to not. With minimum attack and some other targets to hit Earthquake will do no more then 3% damage to Mewtwo.

Me First can only copy damaging moves, so it couldn't copy Dark Void. Otherwise, everyone would run Me First on their starters on Shoddy. Taunt? Me First! Stealth Rock? Me First! And so on.

Me First copies the attack of the opponent if they're using a damaging attack, if the opponent has STAB on the attack, then the Me First user gets STAB. I'm pretty sure that the attack is calculated with the Me First user's stats.
 
So Life Orb (or even Scarf) Mewtwo can rip shit up alongside Kyogre, Smeargle or any number of pokes with bad ass multi hit moves. LO Mewtwo with STAB Eruption or Water Spout? Mewtwo can even function on his own and blow up at some point.
 
So Life Orb (or even Scarf) Mewtwo can rip shit up alongside Kyogre, Smeargle or any number of pokes with bad ass multi hit moves. LO Mewtwo with STAB Eruption or Water Spout? Mewtwo can even function on his own and blow up at some point.
So now everyone wants mewtwo/kyogre?
 
So now everyone wants mewtwo/kyogre?

Fuck y'all (BAN ME PLEASE) bastards, it was my idea.

Edit: Calm Blissey can take up to 90% from a Me-Firsted Kyogre Water Spout. Latios is OHKOd all of the time. I'm not sure how Water Spout's Me First damage is calculated. If it counts Kyogre's HP or Mewtwo's.

If Kyogre is lvl 49 and Quiet you are guarenteed some Rain rape.
 
Fuck y'all (BAN ME PLEASE) bastards, it was my idea.

Edit: Calm Blissey can take up to 90% from a Me-Firsted Kyogre Water Spout. Latios is OHKOd all of the time. I'm not sure how Water Spout's Me First damage is calculated. If it counts Kyogre's HP or Mewtwo's.

If Kyogre is lvl 49 and Quiet you are guarenteed some Rain rape.
Well I never saw you say anything about it..
 
Well I never saw you say anything about it..

Hey, how does Me First work? Does it use the "Me First user's" attack, or the pokemon being copied? Based of what I can get from Smogon it is based off the Me First user's attack, and will target a random opponent with the new move.

Imagine something like..

Mewtwo @ Life Orb (or Choice Scarf)

Me First
Selfdestruct
Protect
filler

Paired with something like Kyogre (Water Spout!) or even Smeargle loaded to the ass with deadly moves. I'm not sure what happends if you Me First Dark Void..

Smeargle won't do any real damage to Mewtwo if Smeargle is EVed to not. With minimum attack and some other targets to hit Earthquake will do no more then 3% damage to Mewtwo.



Would something like this work?
 
So wait. If someone runs Mewtwo with Me First w/ a Kyogre using Water Spout as leads, does that mean your opponet takes double water spout? Or will you be water spouting your kyogre? That cherubi person may be on to something amazing.
 
Well obviously I saw that. But I've been talking on this thread for days about my team. So don't give be that it was my idea bs.

I don't care about your team in the slightest. Why would I?

@ Crazy Snorlax

I think it works that way. Double Water Spout isn't even needed since Timid LO Mewtwo is hitting 4/0 Garchomp for 236.59% - 278.49%. You need a resistance and MASSIVE bulk to survive a Me First Water Spout.
 
The only way for Me First to work is if your target is using it. So if Kyogre isn't using Water Spout then Mewtwo can't. On serebii it says me first targets the selected target. Anyone wana test Me Firsting your team mate would be great.
 
The only way for Me First to work is if your target is using it. So if Kyogre isn't using Water Spout then Mewtwo can't. On serebii it says me first targets the selected target. Anyone wana test Me Firsting your team mate would be great.

Smogon says it selects a random opponent to attack, but I'll test it right now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top