Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

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As someone who is a fan of Trick Room I don't want a permanent Trick Room ability, that is completely unbalanced. Gamefreak needs to change the move around so it can be highly effective move. Here are the MAJOR Mechanist that need to be changed

Trick Room last a total of 7 Turns (the Trick Room turns don't start until the next turn)

Keep Trick Room at -7 priority.

Please change the priority around so that slower Pokemon with priority moves go first.

All priotiry moves become a regular move which means a +0 move.
 

Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor
I think permanent trick room pokes would throw some tiers for a loop. Some slow pokes would benefit greatly from this. Slow, but powerful pokes like Druddigon and Excavelier would have new uses. Not to mention using TR teams and some stall would get a generally bigger boost.
I actually had thought of that as a new weather a few months ago. It would've acted as a weather and would turn off as soon as a new weather would come in. It didn't go over well.
 
If there was perma-TR, I would like them to either: Make it a type of “weather” which allows it to be averted by Drizzle etc. or make new (and better) “Room” type moves and make it a separate field condition on their own. Otherwise there would be no way to stop it except by setting up your own TR which would be extremely counterproductive.
 
I feel like having a permanent Trick Room coukd be ok if the pokemon with it was thoroughly mediocre, and there was a way of getting rid of it. Like a move that removes all weather/room effects. Or an ability (think Air Lock but stays after that poke switches out).

It'd also allow for permanent Gravity/Wonder Room effects, which would be cool and less abusable.
Also a Poke who summons a screen, or Safeguard, or Lucky Chant on entry could be cool.

Edit: and Magic Room, I guess. I mean, it's a thing. That could happen. Eh.
 
Talking about Lucky Chant, I could rather retool the Critical Hit system:

Only 5 Stages:

Stage 1: 1/16 (6%)
Stage 2: 4/16 (25%)
Stage 3: 8/16 (50%)
Stage 4: 12/16 (75%)
Stage 5: 15/16 (94%)

Then, the High Critical Hit moves could have now 25% of chance to land a Critical Hit, making them more viable (because 25% is something to consider, like the Burn Rate of Scald, while 12% is just not enough to consider at all...), and taking in account all the High Critical Hit moves are actually outclassed (exceptions: Lugia's Aeroblast, Vespiquen's Attack Order, Crabhammer, Leaf Blade, Shadow Claw, Night Slash, Spacial Rend, Stone Edge), but if we look at the distributtion of the exceptions;

Lugia really needs the ocassional extra punch with Aeroblast, Vespiqueen could overstall some threats better with Attack Order, Crawdaunt and Kingler will really love the ocassional extra punch on Crabhammer, specially Kingler, who can't use Waterfall, Sword Dance Virizion could be as viable as Calm Mind Virizion with Leaf Blade, and some RU and NU Grass Type could really like the sightly buff, too, Shadow Claw users (who can't use Night Slash) and Bannete could like the sightly buff, too, the same goes for Night Slash users (Zoroark, Liepard, Absol, Honchkrow, Weavile, Bisharp) and it's Normal friends who use it as coverage, Spacial Rend doesn't need any buff at all, but Palkia could now use it more than Draco Meteor, Stone Edge is actually a great move, but it's horrible accuracy is notable, so, it's users could like to have at least more Critical Hit ratio as exchange (almost the same chance to land a Critical Hit as it had to fail!)

As for the other (now outclassed moves) respect, Blaze Kick may see more use from part of Infernape and Monferno, Cross Chop users will really like it's buff, Cross Poison could see more use than Poison Jab, and more when you don't like to poison stuff too offen (because you can't badly poison them), and Drapion with Sniper will love to land Critical Hits with it. Fearow will really love the buff to Drill Run thanks to Snipe, incresing the viability of it's niche, and it's other users, like Rapidash, could like to land more Critical Hits with it as they need all the power that they can get, Psycho Cut could now be used over Zen Headbutt without any problem, Razor Wind + Power Herb may see some more uses in Doubles, specially when you stricke two Pokémon in one turn with it, incresing the chance of land a Critical Hit, and Slash may see some uses paired with Sniper, or Super Luck, or Focus Energy.

By other hand, the Critical Hit related abilities will have a decent buff with this:

Anger Point: Primeape, Krookodile, and Camerupt can switch into a resisted hit that you know is having High Critical rate (by the ways of items, abilities, or moves), and make your way to an instant sweep. On doubles, there're more options for setting this up with the retool, like your partner using Focus Energy and having Razor Claw, and later setting you up with Razor Leaf.

Battle Armor / Shell Armor: This ability can see some uses as now some Pokémon will try to attack you with Critical Hits, so, it's a good cushion for some defensive Pokémon, making it less worthless.

Sniper: If you pair it with Focus Energy and Razor Claw/Scope Lens and/or High Critical moves, then you can really aim for a clean sweep with just 1 turn of setup, and it can even be a mixed sweep!

Super Luck: High Critical Hit moves + Razor Claw/Scope Lens and this can give you a nice 75% chance of Critical Hit, making it a bit risky, but really worth to have now, Togekiss could even see a future abussing of Critical Hits on place of ParaFlinching. If you add Focus Energy to the mix, then you can have an almost flawless Sword Dance + Nasty Plot boost on just one turn, with the plus of bypassing Calm Mind and other threats! As standalone, 25% is still nothing to totally ignore.

And as far as items comes:

Lansat Berry: It can now see some uses with the help of Substitute, as it can now act as a Focus Energy replacement, if you use the correct moves, you can then land to a 75% Critical Hit rate (higher than the accuracy of Focus Blast, similar to Stone Edge), or even 100% with Super Luck, or you can just start to shooting any attack and hope to get a Critical Hit. Sniper user's could see this as the better Pinch Berry for them, too. It's still a bit risky and sometimes not worthy, anyway.

Lucky Punch: Nope.

Razor Claw / Scope Lens: Now a viable option if you pair it with Focus Energy or with High Critical Hit moves as it can be better than Choice Band/Specs/Life Orb with the enough luck, but by alone, it's still not a worth option; except maybe on bulky wallbreakers as they can play it's chance more times.

Stick: Farfetch'd could see a use in NU as wallbreaker with this, or maybe not, it's still a good option for the bird in-game, anyway.

And as far Critical Hit related moves come:

Lucky Chant: It still needs a buff, they can buff it's duration by the ways of making it eternal, or eternal as long the user is still healthy on the game, or increse it's duration to 20 turns, or at least 10. Taking in account the buffs to Critical Hit-related moves, then it could also see some uses on balanced teams as a way to being safer from those metods and random standar critical hits. Stall could love this if this get even a sightly buff.

Focus Energy: An offen called joke move may see uses now as it can be paired with excelent results with other metods to increse the Critical Hit ratio, users of High Critical Hits move could offen use this on place of it's standar set up moves, as this can have better results, and Snipe users will really like to use this thing now as they can with the correct combination to increse it's damage output by 3. It's also a option as standalone for those Pokémon who doesn't had Sword Dance, Work Up, or Nasty Plot, and are somewhat bulky as they can now play it's chances to being deadlier.

So, I could be happy if the Critical Hit system could be retooled like I said, and at the same time it's still not making any change to the people who doesn't have any critical hit related move, ability, or item, as the retool could only buff those things.
 
I loved your critical suggestion Nyara, but simply buffing the crit chance from "high crit ratio" moves is more than enough!

More crits from crit improving moves = good. More random crits from random moves = bad.
 
Back in RBY each Pokemon had an individual criticial hit rate (like Electrode had a critical hit rate of something like 25% for all moves, whilst something like Snorlax had a really low critical hit rate). And back in RBY the critical hits moves like Slash, Razor Leaf, etc. had a 99.6% critical hit rate or something ridiculous if the Pokemon using it had a base speed stat high enough (that's why Persian was OU basically lol).
 
If I rebember ok, Electrode had a 28% of critical hit, while almost all the Pokémon (except 35 or lowest base speed) had more chances to land a critical hit with any move, the standar ratio was something like 11%. High Critical Hit moves were 99,6% on almost any Pokémon, even Machamp had 86% to land a Critical Hit with Karate Chop! (Too sad that Karate Chop was Normal Type on those times).

Anyway, Persian was OU more for the Hyper Beam bug (not recharging move if you K.O'ed or breaked a Substitute) than from the STAB Slash, because Persian was just used as a cleanner mostly abussing of STAB Hyper Beam (it was the faster user of it with STAB), Slash was a neat move to leave things to the range of OHKO Hyper Beam, but with it's somewhat paper-thin defenses, it was rarely used. Raticate and Tauros were best cleanners with paralize support, anyway. And even then, it's OU time was really short, as Stadium fixed Hyper Beam, and fixed Focus Energy (Focus Energy granted you 99,6% of Critical Hit to any move, out from Stadium it reduce your Critical Hit chance to almost 0 on certains circunstances, it never increse the chance, anyway), making Raticate and Tauros better Normal Type cleanners.

Edit: Reading the article on Smogon, you need 65 or higher base speed to have a 99,6% chance to Critical Hit with High Critical Hit moves, and Electrode had a 27% with any move.
 
In general though, Body Slam + normal type = godlike in RBY. Like for the most part BS Normal is basically RBY

Anyway i would like to see widespread 80/95 BP moves from two side of the offense for every typing.
This would actualy ballance(and broke) a lot of stuff IMO
 

Shurtugal

The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
i would love a perma-lucky chant move! it could work on suicide leads for offense teams too js (like if Deo-D got it, etc.).

Also, please, please, PLEASE, don't give us any more perma-inducers (weather, trick room, or anything). Its only bound to make the metagame more shittier.(Imagine if they gave ANYTHING else Drought but Ninetales. *shivers*)
 

Bryce

Lun
i would love a perma-lucky chant move! it could work on suicide leads for offense teams too js (like if Deo-D got it, etc.).

Also, please, please, PLEASE, don't give us any more perma-inducers (weather, trick room, or anything). Its only bound to make the metagame more shittier.(Imagine if they gave ANYTHING else Drought but Ninetales. *shivers*)
Drought Heatran replacing Ninetails,Drizzle Keldeo replacing toed and Sandstream terrakion/Landorus replacing ttar/hippo would be pretty cool imo.

I wonder whether Gen 6 would be an extension of the DNA Link in B2W2 introducing pokemon fusion.It could be the next sequence of game changing mechanics like introduction of abilities in Gen 3,physical special split in gen 4 and new abilities via dream world in gen 5.(weather is basically dw abilites of Ninetails/Toed).
 
my knowledge of nintendo hardware is limited at best, is this generation going to be the first since adv with no connectivity to prior gens?
 

Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor
my knowledge of nintendo hardware is limited at best, is this generation going to be the first since adv with no connectivity to prior gens?
This isn't confirmed, but it would be the time that they WOULD do it... but it would be suicidal to not have fans be able to transfer their pokemon over to Gen 6. It would create the Genwunner effect all over again, and people would get upset and decide not to play anymore. It would stupid to do so, but it's not confirmed.
 
What if there were a sort of inverse choice item: instead of functioning like Encore, it puts the user under Torment, meaning you cannot spam them same move twice in a row. If that were broken, perhaps it'd be 2 turns before you could repeat a move.

Also, more ways to inflict Seeds like say... a 20% chance for SEED Bomb. Make it useful for more than just some grass coverage.
 

Codraroll

Cod Mod
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
my knowledge of nintendo hardware is limited at best, is this generation going to be the first since adv with no connectivity to prior gens?
This idea is so baseless in reality that I won't even call it a rumour. GameFreak will want to go to great lenghts to preserve forward-compability. Just about everybody hated that they missed out on it the last time.

The Adv. games and the DS games wouldn't really be compatible without lots of tweaking either, but GameFreak discovered that they could get away with one-way transfers. This only requires each generation to recognise the hardware and software limits of the previous one, and not vice versa. Had they got this idea at the time, I think it would have been possible to send Gen. II Pokémon over to the GBA games as well.
 
This idea is so baseless in reality that I won't even call it a rumour. GameFreak will want to go to great lenghts to preserve forward-compability. Just about everybody hated that they missed out on it the last time.

The Adv. games and the DS games wouldn't really be compatible without lots of tweaking either, but GameFreak discovered that they could get away with one-way transfers. This only requires each generation to recognise the hardware and software limits of the previous one, and not vice versa. Had they got this idea at the time, I think it would have been possible to send Gen. II Pokémon over to the GBA games as well.
ah ok, i only asked because i didn't think 3ds games had any method of communication with ds games

sorry, i realize that this isnt exactly competitive discussion, i should have asked in the OI thread
 
They cut off gen 1/2 because they wanted to get rid of the many glitches, such as the glitched g/s/c eggs, celebii and mew, and etc.
 
Well, it will do have connectivity, just look at the Pokédex 3D and you know that Nintendo is already prepared for it, so, it's not even a trouble, but I think they can make a sort of reboot making limitations with the Pokémon passing, like only passing eggs, or limiting certain moves or abilities, or things of that sort like they did with the Generation 1 - 2.

Also, fans don't get upset with Nintendo by doing Pokémon reboot, anyway, the fans from the 1-2 Generation still purchased all the Generation 3 games and some foward it, so, I know Nintendo knows that fans don't will get upset enough to not play Pokémon anymore if they do that, and more if we consider the constant petition of fans for a new remake for RBY, GSC, and RSE (that means to replay all again!).

So, it exist the possibility of partial reboot or even total reboot, so, Dream World abilities and a good sort of movesets could not exist on Generation VI. And more when we consider than Nintendo did the reboot before for get rid from bugs of Gen I and Gen II (Generation's III, IV, and V had even more passable bugs on total than Generation's I and II), and made some fixes with the mecanics, because they could perfectly do connectivity with the GBA without any major problem (DV = IV, personality value can be get from IV's, trained Pokémon with more EV's/classic training than the allowed limit could have been limited to being transfered).
 
Connectivity won't be an issue. They just have to do it the same way Gen 4 --> Gen 5 is handled. The 3DS has the hardware to communicate with DS games and the data structure likely won't be overhauled again.

As for crits, I think it should just be like Gen 2 where high crit moves had a 25% chance.
 
I was thinking about something that can change the mechanics of the battle as we know them.
The emphasis on the line: "Strenght the BOND with your Pokémon to reach more POWER", well, it said something like that, but it may change some of the calculations.

I doubt about that "bond" will be something like Pokémon Conquest, because the Link in that game is a level-like system, and it's complicated to have two "level system" at the same time; but maybe will have effect over Critical hit ratio, the chance of inflicting status and stuff like that.

At better link, increases the "hax" at overall, but it'll be under control in some way; maybe will replace the current "Happiness" to make it a "Real" Stat, since Happiness just make some species evolve and defines the BP of Return or Frustration.

In other hand, they talk about to taking the gameplay to a next level; 3D-Environment MAYBE can support a change in the way that Accuracy and Evasion works. The attacks will just have Base Power, the Pokémon itself have an Accuracy and Evasion Stat, and in-battle, if the Attack lands or not will be defined by those stats taking account the speed on it; that will make the battles more real without throwing away the turn-based system.
 
In other hand, they talk about to taking the gameplay to a next level; 3D-Environment MAYBE can support a change in the way that Accuracy and Evasion works. The attacks will just have Base Power, the Pokémon itself have an Accuracy and Evasion Stat, and in-battle, if the Attack lands or not will be defined by those stats taking account the speed on it; that will make the battles more real without throwing away the turn-based system.
Pokémon battles being much like Third-Person action games? You know, I'd totally buy that :P
 
Well, it will do have connectivity, just look at the Pokédex 3D and you know that Nintendo is already prepared for it, so, it's not even a trouble, but I think they can make a sort of reboot making limitations with the Pokémon passing, like only passing eggs, or limiting certain moves or abilities, or things of that sort like they did with the Generation 1 - 2.

Also, fans don't get upset with Nintendo by doing Pokémon reboot, anyway, the fans from the 1-2 Generation still purchased all the Generation 3 games and some foward it, so, I know Nintendo knows that fans don't will get upset enough to not play Pokémon anymore if they do that, and more if we consider the constant petition of fans for a new remake for RBY, GSC, and RSE (that means to replay all again!).

So, it exist the possibility of partial reboot or even total reboot, so, Dream World abilities and a good sort of movesets could not exist on Generation VI. And more when we consider than Nintendo did the reboot before for get rid from bugs of Gen I and Gen II (Generation's III, IV, and V had even more passable bugs on total than Generation's I and II), and made some fixes with the mecanics, because they could perfectly do connectivity with the GBA without any major problem (DV = IV, personality value can be get from IV's, trained Pokémon with more EV's/classic training than the allowed limit could have been limited to being transfered).
The back system was redid if I recall correctly. Which is why it was not compatible. Not to mention, tons of people were pissed you couldn't get your pokemon from gen 1 and 2. Every friend I have had that quit, had quit at that point. I even didn't play ruby and sapphire because of that. It would piss way to many people off for them to reboot it. I know for a fact, I am done if they do that. Not to mention, there is zero reason for them not to allow backwards compatibility.
 
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