Reuniclus

[Nubbins]

And still nobody has answered Kindrindra's question, so lemme repost it.

I really don't like what has been said thousands of times before, but maybe someone will actually read it this time.

Any stall teams that are sweept by Reuniclus are likewise swept by ANY set-up sweeper with either Magic Guard or Rest. That is a significant hole. You can't expect to run a stall team where you are eaten alive by any pokemon that don't mind residal damage and can set up. If that's your team's problem, you have much more than Reuniclus to worry about.

And also, any good stall team this gen should have a way of beating bulky boosters such as Reuniclus, Scrafty, and Conckeldurr. To make a stall team that can't deal with any of these top threats isn't really a good stall team, IMO. Also, any good stall team in any gen should have a way of dealing with endgame boosters such as crocune, since you can't phaze them out if they are the last pokemon or status them.

As a primarily offensive player, I would note that last gen, Blissey could beat an enormous amount of offensive pokemon, some of them even physical. Yet there wasn't really any major argument as to banning Blissey from OU. Offensive players had to deal with it. And we did that by adapting, such as explosion heatran and trick rotom.

 

[astrohawke]

Lets look break things down a it. If there was a Pokemon that was so good against offense that every offense team was forced to run a completely outclassed Pokemon to reliably be competitive, there would be outcry, and it would be banned immediately. You cannot dispute this.
Now look at the same situation, except with Stall instead of offense. There is a Pokemon which forces Stall teams to take measures which cripple the team as a whole, otherwise said Stall team will lose. Again this is pretty much undisputable.
But lets look at the reaction. You have the offense players, who are only able to scream 'just do this' with no real understanding of how good stall works, you have the small number of offense players who nput more thought into it and aknwoledge that maybe it might be broken but they aren't sure because they aren't Stall players, you have the majority of Stall players, who want it to be banned because they don't enjoy having their team crippled, and you have the small minority of Stall players who have unorthodox or less effective teams and so are not quite acquaintd with the problem with it.
You also have the occaisional bull-headed retard who doesn't want Rank to be banned because he thinks that even if a Pokemon removes a whole playstyle from viability, he's too ignorant to see that that justifies a ban, but there aren't many of those in this thread.

How do you know what kind of team people use? Or are you just assuming because if other stall players can find ways around rankurusu, you have to accept that it's your team that's the problem.

The only bull-headed person here is you because apparently you just restate your opinions and ignore everything else like that will prove something. So many ways of dealing with rankurusu have been listed. Some of them niche, others are pretty common. Saying all of them are bad and will cripple your team is just being stubborn.

 

[IcyMan28]

People who continue to cry out that the various measures for checking Reuniclus are "ridiculous and cripple stall" need to look back to some of the stall threads that emerged as Platinum was released. Back then, people were crying out largely because Trick "crippled" the playstyle and some even wanted to ban it.

Now, people have adapted. Some stall teams run a Scarfer not only for added insurance against offense but also as a nice cleaner late game. This was regarded as an outrageous option but is now commonplace. While the situation is not the same, the current mentality is strikingly similar to the outlook on Trick's effect on stall.

 

[666lumberjack]

Since we are playing the ignoring game, I will restate what I stated 3-4 times already and was ignored by basically all of you. Make a good Stall team that can beat Rankurusu and still fare pretty well against the majority of the metagame. If you suceed, great, I clearly didn't try hard enough, and Rankurusu is not banworthy. But from what I've seen. most of you haven't even tried to do so, so you simply flounder about, repeating that 'Rank has lots of counters' and so obviously cannot be banned. Well Rayquazza has a fair few counters too and a ton of checks, but it is still Uber. Blissey is nowhere near as good against offense as Rank is against stall. It loses to nearly all physical attackers, which is what, 40% of the D/P metagame? Rankurusu does not consistently lose to any OU Pokemon except maybe Scizor if you have another powerful Pokemon to switch too.
And also, the whole 'you ignore all our points' thing is bullshit. I have typed out replies to everything you have said. I have explained why your suggestions do not works as effectively as they seem to do on paper. But it is you who have ignored me.
@Nubbins I explained in my last post that restalkers are nowhere near as threatening as Magic Guarders and why other Magic Guarders are owhere near as threatening as Rankurusu.
[As a side note, I'm tempted to write all of this up as an semi-essay covering all of the points I have made, just in case you are not deliberately ignoring what I have said and genuinely didn't see my counterarguments.
Also, Trick cripples one Pokemon. Rankurusu just slaughters the whole team. You can't really compare them.

 

[alphatron]

^Have you tried the deoxys set I posted a while back?

 

[astrohawke]

It's not our job to make good teams for you. You think everyone except you plays offense? How do you think other people deal with it? Not to mention it takes hours to make a working stall team because you have to consider every threat and no one is going to do that for you.

But I'm going to make a suggestion for your team which is to replace mew with something that can counter rankurusu. As far as I can see you can phaze with gyarados and special wall with chansey and stick SR on nattorei. But since I don't know much about your team or how it plays I'm sure you'll tell me why mew can't be replaced and how replacing it would affect your team.

 

[Nubbins]

@Nubbins I explained in my last post that restalkers are nowhere near as threatening as Magic Guarders and why other Magic Guarders are owhere near as threatening as Rankurusu.
[As a side note, I'm tempted to write all of this up as an semi-essay covering all of the points I have made, just in case you are not deliberately ignoring what I have said and genuinely didn't see my counterarguments.
Also, Trick cripples one Pokemon. Rankurusu just slaughters the whole team. You can't really compare them.

Technically, you ignored my point about how other bulky pokemon such as Scrafty can take on stall teams with an almost equal amount of success as Reuniclus. I don't see a point arguing that Reuniclus is "better" than them because even if it is, the margin isn't that wide. You say stall teams can't handle Reuniclus. If we assume that's the case, then how can it handle Scrafty, Shinbora, and whatnot?

I agree that you can't compare Restalk and Trick with Magic Guard, but all of them are viable ways of breaking stall. And as a result, any viable stall team should have ways of dealing with them.

I'll try to comment on your first post. At least, I think this is the post you're referring to.

Lets look break things down a it. If there was a Pokemon that was so good against offense that every offense team was forced to run a completely outclassed Pokemon to reliably be competitive, there would be outcry, and it would be banned immediately. You cannot dispute this. No I can't. But Reuniclus has several viable counters that can simultaneously counter it as well as fulfill other roles. I'm not going to go into the counters as they've already been posted countless times.
Now look at the same situation, except with Stall instead of offense. There is a Pokemon which forces Stall teams to take measures which cripple That's a harsh word. the team as a whole, otherwise said Stall team will lose. Again this is pretty much undisputable. See above
But lets look at the reaction. You have the offense players, who are only able to scream 'just do this' with no real understanding of how good stall works, you have the small number of offense players who nput more thought into it and aknwoledge that maybe it might be broken but they aren't sure because they aren't Stall players, you have the majority of Stall players, who want it to be banned because they don't enjoy having their team crippled Well fuck. I hate having my LO Rotom-W walled by blissey. Fucking ban that ho. Yet she's wasn't ever considered for a ban. Why should stall teams be coddled?, and you have the small minority of Stall players who have unorthodox or less effective teams and so are not quite acquaintd with the problem with it. Nothing to say here. Except that there are people who do both offense and stall. But you probably know that.

You also have the occaisional bull-headed retard who doesn't want Rank to be banned because he thinks that even if a Pokemon removes a whole playstyle from viability, he's too ignorant to see that that justifies a ban, but there aren't many of those in this thread. Cool story bro! But stall is still viable. Maybe not full out stall, but complete stall was always pretty fragile. One hole and a set up sweeper can run through the whole team. Semi stall is still viable and I see quite a few teams.

EDIT: Also, I am fed up of being told that my stall team obviously sucks because it has trouble with Rankurusu. Firstly, Bulky Set-upper with Rest is a stupid argument because they are beaten by entry hazards when such hazards are utilised effectively. How? All entry hazard damage is removed by Rest, which can be repeatedly used. Not to mention if the Restalker is the last pokemon. Can't be phazed out. Other Magic Guard users is a little more valid, but the issue with them is that they cannot do significant damage until they have set up, and so are much more vulnerable to phazing. A Bold Lefties Reuniclus with 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpAtk has 286 Special Attack. It can't do much against bulky stall pokemon until setting up either. The same cannot be said for Reuniclus. Proof?

@FastFlygon below.

Remember this isn't your RMT thread. And don't ignore me. :(

 

[666lumberjack]

Actually, Mew is the most replacable member of the team I'd say. If I fit SR on Nattorei over Protect, which is nice but not needed, I can free up the slot. I would ideally like a Specially Defensive Phazer, but sometimes compromises are necessary in Pokemon. Lol.
I'll test Deoxys, Vuljina and Celebi, and Retest Spiritomb, Scizor and Worry Seed Shaymin, who I think may also beat it. CBA to run calcs atm. Lol. If Shaymin runs Aromatherapy, I can also have Chansey run Skill Swap, (It really needs Seismic Toss) which would give me someting of a backup plan and a decent way to force it out. I could also look a trying to replace Nattorei with another Phazer, though I would lose some utility aainst rain.

 

[Neptune]

So how are you guys dealing with Cosmic Power / Assist Power Clefable when Reuniclus is so apparently broken?

 

[extra]

Taunt / Seismic Toss or Night Shade / Recovery move / whatever Mew will beat CM Rank every single time unless it runs Shadow Ball. the last move can be whatever you want but Toxic or Will-O-Wisp deter physical attackers (WoW is especially useful for catching Tar / Scizor on the switch) and deals with opposing walls (status + taunt + you recovering means you can force a lot of things to switch out). TR rank will beat you but nobody seems to be bitching about that so who cares.

seems gimmicky but it works and isn't specifically made to beat rank. deoxys-d can do the same thing but i personally don't think it's better.

 

[RaikouLover]

I think its funny that people are considering banning something that falls over and dies to two of the most common pokemon in the game (Tyranitar and Scizor), that are largely popular because of OTHER threats (Rain, Dragons, Lati@)

 

[masterful]

I think its funny that people are considering banning something that falls over and dies to two of the most common pokemon in the game (Tyranitar and Scizor), that are largely popular because of OTHER threats (Rain, Dragons, Lati@)

Rank beats T-tar, I don't know how many times i need to say that

 

[Nubbins]

Reuniclus can't beat T-tar completely. T-tar is a good enough counter that it can effectively stop or at least severely maim reuniclus. Which is better than what a lot of other pokemon can do.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

No matter how many times you say it, you're still wrong. CBTar has a 37.5% chance to OHKO Rankurusu with Crunch, and if it doesn't OHKO, Rankurusu is at 10%, and with its terrible speed, it's dead.

 

[masterful]

Reuniclus can't beat T-tar completely. T-tar is a good enough counter that it can effectively stop or at least severely maim reuniclus. Which is better than what a lot of other pokemon can do.

But that is completely irrelevant in reference to what I was saying to RaikouLover

 

[Nubbins]

Yes it is. But your statement was incorrect as you can't just state that Reuniclus beats T-tar flat out.

 

[masterful]

Yes it is. But your statement was incorrect as you can't just state that Reuniclus beats T-tar flat out.

but it can if it has even +1 (or TR), which, assuming T-tar is switching in on it, is pretty much a given

 

[Nubbins]

Since the past few pages have been discussing CM Reuniclus I assumed you meant that too. Sorry.

But almost any form of t-tar stands can KO a TR reuniclus as those don't invest in defense EVs. And it's called focus miss for a reason. So you can't just state that Reuniclus beats tar

 

[masterful]

Since the past few pages have been discussing CM Reuniclus I assumed you meant that too. Sorry.

But almost any form of t-tar stands can KO a TR reuniclus as those don't invest in defense EVs. And it's called focus miss for a reason. So you can't just state that Reuniclus beats tar

What Rank doesn't run SpD? And FB can OHKO at +1, and 70% is pretty damn good

 

[Nubbins]

What Rank doesn't run SpD? And FB can OHKO at +1, and 70% is pretty damn good

Don't all types of Reuniclus run no SpDef? CM ones concentrate on HP+Def while TR ones focus on HP+SpAtk. At least, those are the EV spreads I use.

70% acc is pretty bad, especially if your life depends on it. At the very least, it's not reliable.

 

[masterful]

Don't all types of Reuniclus run no SpDef? CM ones concentrate on HP+Def while TR ones focus on HP+SpAtk. At least, those are the EV spreads I use.

70% acc is pretty bad, especially if your life depends on it. At the very least, it's not reliable.

Meant Def, sorry. But a 70% chance of losing makes T-tar definitely not even close to a counter

 

[masterful]

oops

 

[cosmicexplorer]

But it completely stops CM versions, which is the set that everyone's been discussing for 20 pages. It either KOs them or leaves them at 10%, ready to be revenge killed.

 

[extra]

whilst sending in tar the instant rankurus comes out means you will most likely get focus blasted, tar's ability to come in on the other three of its moves and threaten to OHKO means it certainly shouldn't be dismissed, at least as a check

 

[masterful]

whilst sending in tar the instant rankurus comes out means you will most likely get focus blasted, tar's ability to come in on the other three of its moves and threaten to OHKO means it certainly shouldn't be dismissed, at least as a check

T-TAR CAN'T OHKO!!! What part of that don't you get?I don't know how many times I have said that on this thread, but T-tar can't OHKO standard Rank