• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

RU Threat List

Status
Not open for further replies.
Master Win said:
Now you don't NEED to put this mon on the list if you don't think it has exactly the potential, but I think that LO Sheer force Braviary deserves a mention. I use this thing and it just wrecks teams up alongside my other sheer force LO user. Seriously, I've been down 3 pokemons and this thing evens out the score before going down. Anyways, I've had good success with it so I thought I should bring it up.
Click to expand...
Braviary finds itself in cpmpetition with Honchrow a lot of the time, but it does have some things separate it. STAB Return and Sheer Force boosted Rockslide, U-turn, better defenses, access to bulk up, and better speed. Honchrow has strong priority and Heat Wave and 2 extra base attack. Of course Braviary also resists Bug. He can't take down Cresselia as easily though.
 
While we're on the subject of cleaning up the threat list, I think Swellow and Golduck should probably be removed and Crawdaunt added.

Swellow because it is too easily walled and it is very rarely seen. It is fast and powerful though so maybe everyone just needs to use it more. I'm kinda divided on this.

Golduck because it lacks the power and speed to be truely threatening and Cloud Nine isn't really a useful niche. I have rarely ever seen a Golduck and never one that managed to accomplish anything worthwhile. It's probably NU material I reckon.

Crawdaunt has been argued for before by various people and I don't think anyone has provided anything to suggest Crawdaunt is not a threat. Since Crawdaunt is one of the most powerful physical sweepers in the tier I think it should be made aware to people reading a Threat List. It is also somewhat uncommon but not rare by any means and quite a few successful teams on the ladder use one.

edit: The calculations in this post are of course still valid:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3626884&postcount=277
 
I agree with No Luck. Crawdaunt is extremely powerful and unless you have a Sceptile or something faster than it after a DD than its game over. And if that Crawdaunt runs Substitute its basically over.
 
^Again, this is a thread for common threats. It doesn't matter how powerful something is, if its not commonly used, it doesn't belong on this list.
 
verbatim said:
^Again, this is a thread for common threats. It doesn't matter how powerful something is, if its not commonly used, it doesn't belong on this list.
Click to expand...

Posted last week:

Rising_Dusk said:
I work 9 hours a day from before July started to this coming Sunday. It takes quite some time to get this stuff going. I have the stats, though, just gotta get them compiled. The absolute latest before they get posted will be next Monday (my first day off). If I get off early or something, they may be posted earlier than that. Sorry for the delay.
Click to expand...

The stats should be out very soon if this is still accurate, so, regardless of what we've seen playing in the tier, it can't hurt to wait a little while longer before removing things so we can have hard data to back up our experience of what actually are the most common things in the tier.
 
It'll be very interesting to see the stats. I expect Yanmega to be in 1st by a fairly large margin.

Anyway, why doesn't anyone use Mesprit? It's basically a mix of Alakazam and Cresselia as a Psychic type sweeper...not quite as strong as Alakazam, but much bulkier, and not as bulky as Cresselia but much stronger. It also has the support movepool of Uxie (including Calm Mind), and an attacking movepool good enough to make almost anyone happy. I'm not going to give out my particular set, but it's extremely effective. The only issue I see with it is it's lackluster speed, but you know what I say to that? Get over it.
 
To be more specific it functions as a relatively bulky special sweeper. Something nethier Alakazam or Cresselia can do.
 
Lv1 Smeargle is an absolute force to behold. Given a good player at its helm, this thing will gladly and assuredly cripple 2-3 pokémon on your opponents team, or at least kill one. I've been using it all day and the only cases where it was underwhelming were cases where I didn't use him as a lead. Otherwise, it can eliminate one of the opponent's pokémon almost certainly if they aren't prepared for it. Just pair it up with Honchkrow to finish off the pokémon crippled by Endeavour (Honch also benefits from Smeargle's Trick Room) with Sucker Punch, Pursuit and Brave Bird for an easy Moxie boost.

Also, Mesprit is slower than Specs Yanmega and pre-boost Sharpedo, which automatically gives Alakazam a significant selling point over it. Mesprit would probably be a decent pokémon in this tier were it not weak to the top offensive threats, as Xephyr said it does have an excellent movepool, good bulk and decent offense.
 
If your going to be using endeavor, you should run it with a priority move instead of trick room as it allows Smeargle to get the kill. (if Honchkrow finishes it off he takes LO damage) Also, with his bulk you may want to run it at level one hundred as to not immediately tip off your opponent as to what you are doing.

EDIT: Once again this threat is for threats COMMONLY seen in the metagame. Good but unappreciated pokemon should go in the RU discussion thread, which can be found here.
 
I'll move the discussion to that thread. But from experience, absolutely no-one was aware that it was level 1 in testing. About 40% of opponents tried to Toxic or Leech Seed it. :P
 
GtM said:
Also, Mesprit is slower than Specs Yanmega and pre-boost Sharpedo, which automatically gives Alakazam a significant selling point over it. Mesprit would probably be a decent pokémon in this tier were it not weak to the top offensive threats, as Xephyr said it does have an excellent movepool, good bulk and decent offense.
Click to expand...

This. It's also slower than Galvantula, Venomoth, and Porygon-Z and weak to Honchkrow's Sucker Punch. Plus, unless I'm missing something, it has no recovery outside of rest.
 
Xephyr said:
When did I ever say I was running a bulky sweeper set or whatever you guys are talking about?
Click to expand...

verbatim said:
To be more specific it functions as a relatively bulky special sweeper. Something nethier Alakazam or Cresselia can do.
Click to expand...

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. I believe that verbatim assumed this was what you were talking about when you said it served a different role than Cresselia and Uxie.

I'm not going to ask what your set is because you already said you won't give it away, but could you tell us what role you do use it in? From my perspective Mesprit seems too much of a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, and I'd like to get your reasoning on why that isn't the case.
 
Well I'm basically just using TrickScarf, and with the right moves it can function as an excellent scouter and revenge killer, and he's also fun to use in tandem with Dugtrio (send in Mesprit, U-turn out of the switch-in to Duggy) to eliminate things that give one of my sweepers trouble, because my main sweeper has the same counters that a Calm Mind Mesprit would have.

I'll end my ambiguous mini-analysis there lol.
 
Doesn't Superpower get the boost too? Or do I not understand how Sheer Force works lol

Anyway, about Mesprit, he's not a great Pokemon on his own in this tier, but for me at least and my playstyle he mainly functions as a great team player that always works to get my opponent in a less-than-desirable situation. And that's all I'll say about that.
 
Sheer force only gets rid of positive effects (not including crit hit boost rate) and in exchange boosts the power of the move. Or the power of the mon. I have two mons using sheer force sets and even I am a little confused! Oh ya, and it gets rid of LO effects if sheer force effects the move you used.
 
Xephyr said:
Doesn't Superpower get the boost too? Or do I not understand how Sheer Force works lol
Click to expand...

Here's the description from the research thread and the one from bulbapedia:

Research Thread said:
Confirmed Sheer Force gives a 1.3x boost to moves that have a chance related secondary effect(including 100%) when they hit, but prevents that effect from occurring. Also stops Life Orb recoil from occurring for moves that gain the Sheer Force boost, but still gives the Life Orb boost. Does not apply to moves that have been given the flinch secondary effect by King's Rock. It also disables Shell Bell's healing and your opponent's Red Card and Eject Button. Does not negate the side effect of items thrown with Fling. Moves with a dual secondary effect like the Elemental fangs do not get a double boost in power. (Slipperjeans Afti, El Sargento, mien, 2#, Team Rocket Elite, Pidge, SMZ )
Click to expand...

Bulbapedia said:
Sheer Force raises the base power of all attacking moves that have a secondary effect by 30%, but the secondary effects are ignored.

Sheer Force does not negate primary effects such as recoil, stat penalty for the user, increased critical hit rate, moves that never miss, moves that change power, two-turn moves, etc. Sheer Force will, however, negate all secondary effects, such as reducing a foe's stat, increasing the user's stat, or causing a status condition. Moves that have both a primary and secondary effect will have only their secondary effect negated (and gain the power boost). For example, Flare Blitz has both a primary recoil effect and a secondary chance to burn; its damage will be boosted by 30% (but not cause burn) and inflict recoil to the user after attacking.

If (and only if) a move is boosted by the effect of Sheer Force, it will no longer trigger effects that activate after attacking. This includes the effects of Eject Button, Shell Bell, and Red Card, as well as the Ability Color Change. If an item has two effects, only the effect(s) that activate after attacking will be negated. Therefore, if a Pokémon holds a Life Orb, it will gain the passive damage boost (because it is not activated after the attack) but the recoil effect afterward will be ignored.
Click to expand...

Bulbapedia also has a list of the boosted moves on their Sheer Force page.
 
I use Brave Bird, Bulk Up, Superpower, and Rock Slide. Max HP, with 62 Defense because I thought it was a cool number and 196 Attack. The Brave Bird recoil has been worth it.

A variation on Mesprit's classic Battle Tower (Subway) set might do well here too. Twave and Trick and whatnot, although Flash isn't gonna work.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top