Sableye

[Meltra]

Flandre Scarlet (Sableye) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Even without attacking moves, Calm Mind Sableye is a solid threat that can take down an abundance of threats using residual damage and Will-o-Wisp. Taunt takes care of setup sweepers and walls that attempt to cripple it. Physical Sweepers are met by Sableye's decent Defense stat and WoW. If you can find time to set up one CM, Sableye's SpD stat reaches a usable 249, which is bolstered further if you can manage another one. Recover is a necessity for keeping Sableye alive, as well as helping to PP stall.

Sableye's main concern here are not being able to set up enough CMs to successfully wall more powerful special sweepers. Blissey and Burungeru can handle threats like Shandy and Sazandora all day. Faster MH users (all of them) can be easily be handled by proper team synergy. Morobareru can Clear Smog Erufuuns (that don't carry Hurricane) right out. Voltolos can be revenge killed easily by Weaville or Mamoswine, whom all have great synergy with Sableye due to a Fighting weakness. The same goes for Lepardas and Volbeat/Illlumise, due to their frailty. Sableye is unable to touch Fire types with WoW, which is easily remedied through any bulky Water, such as Swampert, Vaporeon, or even Milotic. 8 Speed EVs are there to outspeed other Sableye, but can be invested into HP if you're not afraid of it.

tl;dr: Sableye CAN be bulky, toying with huge threats such as Onono, Scizor, and Tyranitar Garchomp and Dory, this set will almost surely save a spot for it in OU. Any set with offensive moves will fail miserably, since it's slow as a Munchlax and more so suffers from moveslot syndrome. Deal w/ it, (h).

 

[~Yadoking~]

Gah, I HATE Sableye.
I meet them on every god damn team there is!
Himmanatsu: Have we Battled? I played against a Sableye EXCACTLY like that!

 

[1234gjy]

Gah, I HATE Sableye.
I meet them on every god damn team there is!
Himmanatsu: Have we Battled? I played against a Sableye EXCACTLY like that!

Not really. All the teams I screw up with Sableye didn't have sableye. Everytime I see another sableye, it turns out to be a ditto.

 

[Kingclown50]

Sableye is possibly the best spinblocker now that Rotom-A isn't Ghost anymore.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Sassy (+SpDef, -Spd)
Mischievious Heart
252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpDef
~Mean Look
~Will-O-Wisp
~Taunt
~Recover

Either you trap and kill the spinner, or you force it out. Either way, you did your job. Has trouble with Starmie, but can take it at full health, usually. No attacking moves because no spinner is immune to burn (besides Torkoal). Taunt stops Forry and Donphan from laying hazards, though Night Shade or Confuse Ray could be used in that slot.

 

[Arc Tech]

I've been trying out the subtorment set (with balanced defences, not sp def biased), and it has been working amazingly. If it has a sub down, it screws over choice users. It can switch into and shut down bulk up roobushin. Works great as an anti-spinner, but you'll need a spinner of your own, since forretress sets up on you- the best you can do is burn it. I'm not sure if making him sp def biasedis a good idea, it could give him trouble against roo. The only moves that I sometimes wished I had are taunt and toxic.

 

[Jaroda]

With no attacks you'll be walled to hell and back by Espeon, who I never fear switching into a Sableye. It may not be able to hit with Psychic, but it will just has happily set up Calm Minds to pass or dual screens. They usually burn or confuse themselves. I say you should have Night Shade at the least.

 

[j99ubers]

One of the most annoying moves that Sableye can use is its Mischevious Heart confuse ray which, although its only 50/50, lets it stand up to many special attackers although it still cant take a hit from them its his best hope to do anything against one.

 

[Sunshine Bear]

Confuse Ray is interesting.

Sableye@leftovers
Careful
252Hp/124def/136spdef
Mischevious Heart
-Torment
-Substitute
-Confuse Ray
-Will-o-Wisp/Toxic

The problem with this moveset is that you can't Sub up on a switch.

 

[masterful]

confuse ray should be added to all the movesets, as it can get really annoying when used in conjunction with will-o-wisp against physical pokes

 

[Chou Toshio]

Mischivious Heart WoW is freaking insane. I will have to try this as my own ghost type next type I build a Spikes based team . . . This guy also causes a lot of switches (for spikes) and rage quits (ftw).

 

[j99ubers]

Also another set i think he could run is one similar to the Deoxys-D stallbreaker listed on-site. Except becuase of mischevious heart he doesnt need agility.

Sableye@Leftovers/wide lens/iron ball
-Toxic
-Taunt
-Recover
-Confuse Ray/Will-o-wisp/Trick

The last move corresponds to the item in its position. The basic idea of this set is to beat any non-steel stall pokemon. The last move selected basically depends what else you want sableye to be able to do. Will-o-wisp is probably best as he can spinblock forry well burning him so payback does much less damage and can stall him out. Confuse Ray is there basically as an annoyance and Trick can be used to avoid being completely shut down by magic mirror pokemon and can be used to cripple a speedy sweeper.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I'm kinda bummed Fire Punch is illegal with Mischivious Heart, but as he is going to be packing taunt anyway, it probably doesn't matter, as Nattorei or forry would be unable to touch him.

 

[XenoIncognito]

I used this guy on one of my earlier DW teams. Absolute nightmare for stall to deal with. I even stalled out a garchomp once with priority WoW.

 

[Chou Toshio]

The thing is you can see special attacks coming from a mile away-- that's why we have specialized walls, because it's easy to move between them.

 

[Wafflez]

Yah this guy does amazing with stall.With Taunt,Wisp,Recover it can slowly kill off a lot of stalls general members.
And the fact that you can outspeed a +6 Choice scarf Sand Throw Jolly Doryuzu in the sand,Burn it and then proceed to Stall it out makes me smile :]

 

[Trickster]

Sableye@Leftovers
-Trickery
-Swagger
-Substitute
-Recover

Annoying set that relies on luck.

 

[blasphemy1]

I'm not sure if defense EVs or special defense EVs are more worthwhile. I've stalled out stuff like Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor with 252/252+, but he could be really bulky on the physical side with Will-o-Wisp AND investment. Stall usually has Blissey though, so maybe go physical but Lefties Starmie loses to 252/252 Careful. hmm

 

[Lee]

I'm sold on taunt/recover/wow, but i'm still torn on the 4th move. Trickery or Night Shade for some damage? Not really sure if Trickery works like I think it does; i think it might be a fix for your lack of offense but only if your opponent has an attack stat, whereas night shade will always be fixed damage. Maybe one of the weather moves to counter weather teams? Sunny Day would help out my Urugamoth. Psych Up could be useful to counter bulk-up and calm mind users and you've got burn for swords and dragon dancers. Attract is dead weight half the time.

Protect could work for gaining some extra health with Leftovers while the opponent loses extra health from Burn. Mean Look could work too so that you can do quite a number to stall teams. Some people use Trick with an Iron Ball to ruin a sweeper. Knock Off can also do reasonably since you get rid of opposing Leftovers to make Burn even more potent. Confuse Ray is one that a lot of people use too.

This is an interesting discussion, I'd really like to hear what people are using in that 'filler' slot alongside Taunt/WoW/Recover.

I was initially drew to Trickery for it's ability to circumvent Sableye's low Attack but I found, after a few battles, that Pokemon with high Attack stats tend to avoid Sableye like the plague for fear of that priority Will-o-wisp so it was rare that I got a chance to unleash Trickery against something like Garchomp. For that reason, I think Night Shade is a better option if you're looking to deal some damage. A bit of advice though - if you do choose to use Night Shade, adjust your Spe IV to at least 20 so that you're slower than Roobushin. This allows you to cushion the damage from his Payback when want to do so. It can be handy on occassion and you don't lose much by doing it.

The Trick/Iron Ball thing is a nice combination, but Sableye really misses his Leftovers due to his vulnerability to all forms of residual damage. Confuse Ray isn't a competitive move.

I plan to play around with Knock Off next. It's your best option against the hordes of special attackers or Fire types that love switching in on Sableye to absorb the burn. Sazandora won't like losing it's Scarf, Blaziken is a lot less scary without his Life Orb, Espeon loses about 1/5 of it's health and it's item etc.

Like any Mischevious Heart user, you can throw a weather move in there to serve as a back-up setter (or, if you're not using weather, you can randomly slap Sunny Day there to spite Rain teams that let Politoed die). Rain Dance is particularly handy because it gives him a means of inconveniencing Fire-types that switch into his WoW.

Since you mention Attract, I assume you're happy to gamble on the genders of your opponent in which case Captivate might be an interesting gimmick. Put simply, it lowers the opponent's SpA by two stages if they're the opposite gender. Handy for all those Heatran/Latios/special based Rain sweeper etc switch-ins and can force a few more switches/cushion your own switch-in.

So c'mon, what do you think is the best option?

edit:

I'm not sure if defense EVs or special defense EVs are more worthwhile. I've stalled out stuff like Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor with 252/252+, but he could be really bulky on the physical side with Will-o-Wisp AND investment. Stall usually has Blissey though, so maybe go physical but Lefties Starmie loses to 252/252 Careful. hmm

Yeah, I couldn't decide either so I've been using a rather arbitrary Impish 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD. It's easy to justify any SpD investment by saying that priority Will-o-wisp covers him against physical attacks but it rarely works out that simply in battle (+2 attacks still hurt, even from a burned opponent...+2 burned Jolly Doryuuzu does up to 82% with Earthquake vs 252/0 Sableye and, under the same conditions, Garchomp does as much as 96% with Outrage).

I think it might be worth seriously considering Calm Mind, as proposed in Himanattsu's post here (great post btw Himanattsu):

Hide

Flandre Scarlet (Sableye) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Even without attacking moves, Calm Mind Sableye is a solid threat that can take down an abundance of threats using residual damage and Will-o-Wisp. Taunt takes care of setup sweepers and walls that attempt to cripple it. Physical Sweepers are met by Sableye's decent Defense stat and WoW. If you can find time to set up one CM, Sableye's SpD stat reaches a usable 249, which is bolstered further if you can manage another one. Recover is a necessity for keeping Sableye alive, as well as helping to PP stall.

Sableye's main concern here are not being able to set up enough CMs to successfully wall more powerful special sweepers. Blissey and Burungeru can handle threats like Shandy and Sazandora all day. Faster MH users (all of them) can be easily be handled by proper team synergy. Morobareru can Clear Smog Erufuuns (that don't carry Hurricane) right out. Voltolos can be revenge killed easily by Weaville or Mamoswine, whom all have great synergy with Sableye due to a Fighting weakness. The same goes for Lepardas and Volbeat/Illlumise, due to their frailty. Sableye is unable to touch Fire types with WoW, which is easily remedied through any bulky Water, such as Swampert, Vaporeon, or even Milotic. 8 Speed EVs are there to outspeed other Sableye, but can be invested into HP if you're not afraid of it.

tl;dr: Sableye CAN be bulky, toying with huge threats such as Onono, Scizor, and Tyranitar Garchomp and Dory, this set will almost surely save a spot for it in OU. Any set with offensive moves will fail miserably, since it's slow as a Munchlax and more so suffers from moveslot syndrome. Deal w/ it, (h).

That allows you to have all the advantages of significant physical defensive investment, but still outstall the likes of Latios and Starmie should you choose to do so.

 

[Green Thunder]

The Trick/Iron Ball thing is a nice combination, but Sableye really misses his Leftovers due to his vulnerability to all forms of residual damage. Confuse Ray isn't a competitive move.

why not? i dont really understand. its extremly useful for racking up (small) amounts of damage and promoting switches.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Move's that affect your opponent that go away when they switch out that are competetive:

-Metal Sound and friends
-Screech and friends
-Encore
-Taunt
-Torment
-Leech Seed
-Yawn

What they have in common is that they always work.

Confuse Ray has a 50% chance to work.

50% is a bad grade on a test.

50% is a bad power level for a robot.

50% is a bad rating for movie.

50% chances to work mean Confuse Ray sucks.

 

[masterful]

Move's that affect your opponent that go away when they switch out that are competetive:

-Metal Sound and friends
-Screech and friends
-Encore
-Taunt
-Torment
-Leech Seed
-Yawn

What they have in common is that they always work.

Confuse Ray has a 50% chance to work.

50% is a bad grade on a test.

50% is a bad power level for a robot.

50% is a bad rating for movie.

50% chances to work mean Confuse Ray sucks.

Confuse Ray is spectacularly useful when stalling a physical sweeper out of a sweep

 

[Enlong]

Ah, but Confuse Ray connects 100% of the time. And confusing a 'mon can intimidate the opponent into a switch.

And, you know, possibly hurt the confused 'mon.

 

[blasphemy1]

Move's that affect your opponent that go away when they switch out that are competetive:

-Metal Sound and friends
-Screech and friends
-Encore
-Taunt
-Torment
-Leech Seed
-Yawn

What they have in common is that they always work.

Confuse Ray has a 50% chance to work.

50% is a bad grade on a test.

50% is a bad power level for a robot.

50% is a bad rating for movie.

50% chances to work mean Confuse Ray sucks.

Yeah, and they only have a 50% chance of hitting you, which sucks. You're looking at it the wrong way. Plus, not all moves are 100% in the first place. Using it on Heatran w/Fire Blast means you can usually stall them out of PP.

 

[Neptune]

I've been toying around with Sableye lately and I have to say that despite his horrific stats, he's an extreme pest and can practically shut down stall single handedly. Priority WoW and Taunt is just incredible, and Recover helps out a bunch too in stalling out physical attackers.

I'm still trying to figure out the best EV spread for the guy, but I was having some success with a "sweeping" Sableye with WoW / Calm Mind / Recover / Shadow Ball (Dark Pulse is illegal) and it actually worked rather well. Sableye needs 3 or 4 Calm Minds to not get 2HKO'd by a lot of things, but it's not really hard to get those while stalling something out. Wisp protection and a signifcant SpD boost can often lead opponents puzzled as to what to do. A +3 Shadow Ball with no SpA EVs managed to knock off a health 70% from a Garchomp, and the guy has even stalled out Tyranitar for me.

I haven't used Confuse Ray yet but I intend on trying it as it does indeed cause a ton of switches for Spikes damage.

I love this guy, he's a gimmick that really can work on unprepared teams.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Sableye is easily one of the best physical walls this gen. 252/160/96 Bold (I'm terrible at defensive EVs, so I just threw random numbers on it, but it seems to be doing fine) laughs off most unboosted physical hits even without WoW. Throw in Taunt to beat boosters and opposing status, the obligatory Recover, and your choice of filler move, and you've got yourself a stalling monster. Several times I've been down 2-1 and it took out both of them just with burn damage.