SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[doipy hooves]

Here's a pleasant update to this that I just saw in the Competitve OU thread:
The way move transfers work, if a move on that Pokemon is still valid in Gen 9, and it knew it before transfer, you can still relearn the move. This applies to TMs but also Egg Moves, which is relevant for Chansey because that means it can still get Heal Bell in Gen 9! Just a bit more roundabout.

As expected, it turns out the Japanese/Chinese/Korean site descriptions about only relearning learned moves that can also be learned in the destination game turned out to be fairly accurate to what happened, even being faithful enough to the unused BDSP egg moves. As for unresolved mysteries, so far I have had one unconfirmed source telling me that Bank Breloom did not retain Spore, but no BDSP testing thus far which I'm still waiting on access to see for myself on.

Except it doesn't? I don't know what you read.

One thing I think that’s important to clarify about Pokémon home and the move relearner, is that nowhere on the Japanese (presumably, the original) website about moves needing to be useable in some generations. The only limitations it lists are the Pokémon having learnt the move, and that “some moves excluded” (ie cut moves and hidden power for BDSP).

My clarification was that nowhere on the Japanese does it mention the idea of a Pokémon needing to learn a move the switch games, ie, that transfer moves are limited only to what can be learned in those games specifically.

If I had a nickel for every time someone claimed the Japanese site didn't explain this was how the relearn mechanic would work, then I would have 2 nickels, which is weird because it's a publicly accessible website and I was able to understand it through machine translation.

 

[Admin Miror B]

Worldie please

That typo was in SWSH, not Home. Home leaks moveset data of future Pokemon instead. Gosh.

Speaking of, has there been any indication that any future move data is left over in this Home update? None of the regular dataminers have mentioned yet and I'm not sure if that's due to it being properly scrubbed or Kaphotics just taking his dear sweet time to get around to posting it lol

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Speaking of, has there been any indication that any future move data is left over in this Home update? None of the regular dataminers have mentioned yet and I'm not sure if that's due to it being properly scrubbed or Kaphotics just taking his dear sweet time to get around to posting it lol

Seems like the former. We have no info on the revealed DLC Pokémon compared to Gen 8. Game Freak really scrubbed everything

 

[StompyStomps]

Seems like the former. We have no info on the revealed DLC Pokémon compared to Gen 8. Game Freak really scrubbed everything

Jokes on you,
https://www.pokeos.com/dex/?f=dlcleak&page=1
All leaked mons
Gamefreak scrubbed it fast, but the dataminers are faster

 

[R_N]

Jokes on you,
https://www.pokeos.com/dex/?f=dlcleak&page=1
All leaked mons
Gamefreak scrubbed it fast, but the dataminers are faster

These are just the Pokemon from the scrubbed POkedex listings we've known about for the past couple of updates.

WhatMiror B & Maahir are talking about are updated move data, which is not here, but was in the Gen 8 Home updates (as TMs/TRs learn sets)

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

These are just the Pokemon from the scrubbed POkedex listings we've known about for the past couple of updates.

WhatMiror B & Maahir are talking about are updated move data, which is not here, but was in the Gen 8 Home updates (as TMs/TRs learn sets)

yep

 

[StompyStomps]

These are just the Pokemon from the scrubbed POkedex listings we've known about for the past couple of updates.

WhatMiror B & Maahir are talking about are updated move data, which is not here, but was in the Gen 8 Home updates (as TMs/TRs learn sets)

Oh, gotcha

 

[Calm]

Hi, I would like to report on 2 specific data mechanics.

1. It seems that if you backstrike on a wild Pokémon, it can still successfully use Fake Out and First Impression on turn 2 i.e. its first successful turn. This is in contrast to battles where your turn 2 Fake Out and First Impression fail even if your turn 1 was unsuccessful e.g. a faster Fake Out hit you first. Proof

2. Exp formula in SV (and possibly also SwSh, as r/ProfessorOak hinted at) appears to be affected by your current Gym badges - this one is relevant for lower legit Kingambit level bounds as underleveled Bisharp are legitimately possible. That is, until Pokémon Go introduces the ability to evolve Bisharp in that game. For Kingambit's case, I assume the 1.5x Traded Exp boost is in effect because it's highly unlikely that someone would have legitimately rolled the same TID and SID in SwSh/Home and SV to avoid this Exp boost (do any of these games let you RNG for a specific TID/SID?) Proof 1, Proof 2

 

[pika pal]

2. Exp formula in SV (and possibly also SwSh, as r/ProfessorOak hinted at) appears to be affected by your current Gym badges - this one is relevant for lower legit Kingambit level bounds as underleveled Bisharp are legitimately possible. That is, until Pokémon Go introduces the ability to evolve Bisharp in that game. For Kingambit's case, I assume the 1.5x Traded Exp boost is in effect because it's highly unlikely that someone would have legitimately rolled the same TID and SID in SwSh/Home and SV to avoid this Exp boost (do any of these games let you RNG for a specific TID/SID?) Proof 1, Proof 2

Go might also reduce the level requirement if Pawniard gets introduced in Research Tasks, which reduces Bisharp's "starting" level from 20 to 15.

 

[R_N]

Some interesting stuff left in the new update

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1674253480767238145

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Kinda wonder if the TMs will be returning moves or brand new ones. Copium still wants something like Defog or Knock Off back but don't think that'll happen. Considering they're in the game but usable by barely anything (or none in the case of Poltergeist), the Isle of Armor tutor moves might come back.

Also Illuminate being turned into a Keen Eye clone is eh.

 

[R_N]

I highly doubt they're adding 30 new moves

The IOA tutors coming back in full would make sense, and then probably a handful of other moves. Maybe they'll take some of the new moves and make them TMs now.

 

[Blanca Weiss]

I highly doubt they're adding 30 new moves

The IOA tutors coming back in full would make sense, and then probably a handful of other moves. Maybe they'll take some of the new moves and make them TMs now.

Or scald

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I anticipate all the Isle of Armour Tutor Moves to be added, so that's 18, then they have 12 more moves left to fill in

 

[reaverz]

Kinda wonder if the TMs will be returning moves or brand new ones. Copium still wants something like Defog or Knock Off back but don't think that'll happen. Considering they're in the game but usable by barely anything (or none in the case of Poltergeist), the Isle of Armor tutor moves might come back.

Also Illuminate being turned into a Keen Eye clone is eh.

I think that any move currently programmed in without any native learners will have a TM. I believe that most, if not all, examples of these moves (which apparently can be called by Metronome?) are in fact tutor moves from the Isle of Armor. Certain TM/TR moves from SS left out of SV also seem like safe bets, such as Superpower, Power Whip, High Horsepower, and especially Scald (based on the Milotic footage).

I have to wonder if 30 TMs will really be all they will add, especially if the newly-added Pokemon drop the materials needed for them. I can see these 30 being the first of two batches of new TMs that will be added for each part, with each batch requiring materials dropped by Pokemon found exclusively in that part of the DLC.

And yeah, shame about Illuminate. I figured it would receive an in-battle effect since a few of the Pokemon datamined for the DLC have the ability, but I was hoping for a more interesting effect than that.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

So there are in fact new TMs being added in the DLC.

I called it!

 

[Aura Flare Riolu]

So Illuminate is now a Keen Eye clone. Fun fact: This means Watchog now has two duplicate Standard Abilities.

 

[Worldie]

So Illuminate is now a Keen Eye clone. Fun fact: This means Watchog now has two duplicate Standard Abilities.

Pff, amateur, Delibird did this first, and better


Aside that, I would assume that we're looking at 1 new move per type (so 18).
I'm not sure all of the IoA moves will come back. I'm more of the idea that only some will (most likely the ones that actually saw usage in competitive and are currently lacking in learners, most notably Flip Turn, Triple Axel, Dual Wingbeat, Grassy Glide, Rising Voltage, and Expanding Force. Maybe also Misty Explosion just for the sake of keeping all 4 "terrain" skills, and Scorching Sands). I don't think they'll bother bringing back a TM for say, Skitter Smack, or Steel Roller, which had basically 0 or near-0 usage...

To this you can add certain main utility moves missing (maybe) like Scald, Knock Off, ...

Edit: Also one other notable thing, being 30 TMs, I wonder if we can get a estimate of how many pokemon families will be in the DLC... Idk if there's a specific pattern in how materials are used on TM crafting, but I would assume that every material shows up in at least 1 unique recipe, so that'd mean there's at least 30 non-version-exclusive non-legendary families coming in DLC1?

 

[R_N]

Edit: Also one other notable thing, being 30 TMs, I wonder if we can get a estimate of how many pokemon families will be in the DLC... Idk if there's a specific pattern in how materials are used on TM crafting, but I would assume that every material shows up in at least 1 unique recipe, so that'd mean there's at least 30 non-version-exclusive non-legendary families coming in DLC1?

Well, I wouldn't assume that the 30 TMs are entirely for just DLC 1. I think it's very likely that those are the place holders for the entirety of the DLC in the same way the dex stubs are.

FWIW though taking out all the starters, removing Aipom & Gligar, there's ~76 new families to potentially drop Tm-making materials as a baseline before removing more for VEs or "special" Pokemon. Wouldn't surprise me if the new TMs favor overlap between multiple Pokemon, so ~76 doesn't mean ~60 new moves

 

[mattgcn]

I don't think it really makes sense to guess TM moves based on competitive viability/usability, they remove access to competitively viable moves all the time

 

[Worldie]

I don't think it really makes sense to guess TM moves based on competitive viability/usability, they remove access to competitively viable moves all the time

Yesn't.

They've done this with both gen 6 and 7, many moves were originally not available, and then come back with tutors in ORAS / USUM respectively.
Not all of them of course, but most of the ones that did get back "via tutors" were indeed competitively relevant moves, most notably Knock Off, Tailwind, Roost, elemental punches, etc etc.

If anything gen 8 was kind of a outlier, with the DLCs not bringing back moves but rather introducing new ones. Though again, large majority of said moves bar Knock Off, Toxic and Roost were available as TRs, and Toxic hadn't exactly seen much usage in VGC anyway due to the meta being way more fast paced than singles.

We'd honestly not be having this discussion if Milotic wasn't spotted being used Scald obviously, and I don't exactly exclude that the DLCs may not bring back anything at all.
However, the combination of several former-TM/Tutor moves having 1 or 0 learners despite being coded in the game, as well as the above Scald incident, are a reasonable reason to speculate that they may be doing basically both introducing new moves and also bringing back more older ones.

 

[mattgcn]

Here's every move that's not a legendary signature / event move that is both usable in SV on the current patch and has 0 learners
Mega Punch
Cut
Horn Drill
Blaze Kick
Tail Slap
Darkest Lariat
Burn Up
Meteor Beam
Misty Explosion
Grassy Glide
Rising Voltage
Burning Jealousy
Lash Out
Poltergeist
Corrosive Gas
Coaching
Triple Axel
Scorching Sands
Power Shift

Notably, most of the IOA moves are here, and four moves that were TM/TR in SwSh. With 1 learner, same exclusions

Bone Rush
Heal Bell
Meteor Mash
Water Spout
Attack Order
Defend Order
Scald
Flying Press
Fairy Lock
Baneful Bunker
Spirit Shackle
Fire Lash
Speed Swap
Trop Kick
Instruct
Zing Zap
Snipe Shot
No Retreat
Tar Shot
Magic Powder
Dragon Darts
Court Change
Drum Beating
Pyro Ball
Apple Acid
Grav Apple
Expanding Force
Steel Roller
Scale Shot
Shell Side Arm
Eerie Spell

You mostly end up with signature moves, but also three more IOA moves. Those seem likely, jury's out on the rest, to me.

 

[R_N]

You have several Legendary & Event moves in that first list (& Struggle)


Seeing Power Shift, though...I think that might actually turn into a TM. I was going to just say nah probably not since its just a clone of Power Trick, but it's extremely vague about what causes it as opposed to Psychic Power, and got to be learned by an assortment of things in Legends Arceus. So being a TM would probably let it go to a lot more Pokemon.



Pray for Zing Zap to get the Darkest Lariat treatment

 

[mattgcn]

Oops I had edited the list and then pasted the wrong one lol.

I'm curious about what their intention with Power Shift was. Making it a straight Power Trick clone is odd, especially since it's not like they never gave the old one to non-Psychics. I feel like it could've been more interesting if it did Physical AND Special.

Also I do wonder if nothing learning Burn Up is they figured out the Tera interaction and realized they didn't want that smoke lmaooo

 

[Worldie]

Pray for Zing Zap to get the Darkest Lariat treatment

Are you really looking forward to one more "30% chance to flinch" game? xD