Separating Genders

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Because women are seen as less competent than men. It’s part of the whole misogyny thing. Misogyny or any kind of discrimination has never been rational as a system.
 
Because women are seen as less competent than men. It’s part of the whole misogyny thing. Misogyny or any kind of discrimination has never been rational as a system.
If so many women are indeed getting paid less than men for doing the same job, why aren't women everywhere sueing their employers for lost income? Why aren't they demanding to be backpaid for all the money that's rightfully theirs? Womens groups have many powerful figures in government, media, the courts, and business who would surely be aware of all this, and there are many strict laws in place to enable them to take action, so why haven't they instigated a national "correction" yet if it's such a widespread issue?
 

Myzozoa

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If so many women are indeed getting paid less than men for doing the same job, why aren't women everywhere sueing their employers for lost income? Why aren't they demanding to be backpaid for all the money that's rightfully theirs? Womens groups have many powerful figures in government, media, the courts, and business who would surely be aware of all this, and there are many strict laws in place to enable them to take action, so why haven't they instigated a national "correction" yet if it's such a widespread issue?
ah right, 'why arent the women lawyering up if they so discriminated against after all they have such a strong conspiracy going', posted by the guy who dismisses the disproportionate amount of sexual violence done by men by bringing in the stats on parent murders of children and liked by a bunch of people who rejoice in the confirmation of accused sex offender brett kavanaugh. our society extends such vast credibility to women, right? just like we can always have adult conversations about the wage gape.
ITT: continually rehashed disproven libtard NPC talking points
joy, another man joins the institution of identical men
 

Many

Ehehehehh
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This is just ironic and sensationalist drivel. On the contrary, nearly every discussion on gender dynamics I've ever seen on the internet almost invariably descends into a tirade attacking males for daring to speak out about the ways in which society is sexist towards them and how that ties in to the overall picture.

If lowering the incidence of any crime was as simple as just telling people not to do it, well shit, wouldn't that be nice. The problem is that it's nowhere near that simple, so to expect something as naive as that to solve everything is delusional. That doesn't neccessarily mean we shouldn't do that at all provided we go about it the right way, but the point is that the problem stems from much deeper origins, and unless those root causes themselves are addressed, you'll never even come close to eradicating the problem. There are many issues at play which contribute to the situation at hand:

- We need to stop defining a males worth based on how much sex he gets or his relationship status (ie, pressure to have a girlfriend or get married and start a family).
- We need to eliminate virgin shaming.
- We need to give boys and men freedom of expression with their appearance and emotions, which means stop treating them like soldiers where they all get given the same short haircut and have to conform to the same set of sexist societal norms.
- We need to stop mutilating the genitals of our baby boys; it's both a gross violation of their right to bodily autonomy, and conveys to them first hand that it's acceptable to forcefully exert control over other peoples bodies.
- We need to stop using words like "masculinity" and "femininity" because they are sexist terms which do nothing but reinforce and perpetuate stereotypes.
- We need to eliminate heteronormativity, so let our boys know that it's ok to form sexual and emotional relationships with people who aren't female.
- We need to eliminate gender roles such as men as instigators and women as selectors; encourage everyone to pursuit the person they want (if any).
- We need to take it seriously when boys and men voice themselves about the issues they face; we need to listen to them and stop dismissing them with the "man up" attitude.
- We need to use gender-neutral language when teaching our children about respecting the autonomy of others.
- We need to stop using violence as a means of disciplining our children.

Of course, most things on that incomplete list never even get a mention, mostly because society still hasn't matured to the point where it recognizes the existence of misandry. Given the above issues, is it really any wonder that we're in the mess we're in right now? We treat our boys like complete shit, suppress their individual development, and then expect each and every one of them to grow into decent adults. This isn't excusing the behaviour, there's never a valid excuse for it, but this is the reason it's happening. Rape culture is mostly a symptom of internalized misandry. When we tackle the above issues, the incidence of sexual assault will plummet, while simultaneously liberating boys, men, and women alike.
Apologies for derailing the conversation about wages, but I would just like to give your post a shoutout. The emotional problems men face as a result of their gender really don't get a lot of discussion, but it really is at the core of a lot of issues in our societies.

I just would like to add though, that many of the problems you have outlined affecting male populations are more a symptom of men pressuring other men and toxic masculinity than anything else. From my experiences and what I've learned, I really don't feel like misandry is a large issue for men but it's more the overall system of gender roles that is problematic.
 
What job do you think people are expecting to get when they go to college and enroll in a gender studies, arts, music, or other humanities course for example?

Colleges are now little more than profit-driven businesses who prey upon vulnerable young people who don't yet know anything about how the real world actually works. In most cases, attending one means wasting 3+ years of your life sitting in a lecture hall listening to some old fart regurgitate shit from a 10-year-old slide show and going into $50K+ worth of debt you have to pay interest on, all to obtain a stupid piece of paper that hasn't given you any meaningful skills or experience that are of any use to an employer. Colleges have also been overrun by radical leftist whackjobs who are indoctrinating the upcoming generation with feminist, socialist and other forms of propaganda. So when somebody says "women are more qualified than men and yet they are getting paid less", that's a really dumb statement because having a degree in itself doesn't mean shit, what matters is whether or not you have skills that are in demand, and when you choose to study a field that has poor employment prospects, that's on you.
never thought i would see the day where education is disparaged because it "indoctrinates the upcoming generation" presumably into being "leftists" or whatever

i know i have to be getting trolled (is this an alt? lol) here tho so props to you for getting me and others to take you seriously.
 
So, i'm just curious, why is everyone acting like actually debating someone who posted something this fucking laughable:

Colleges have also been overrun by radical leftist whackjobs who are indoctrinating the upcoming generation with feminist, socialist and other forms of propaganda.
is gonna do anything helpful? I mean, i don't expect the mods to actually be helpful and realize that ignoring it is doing nothing helpful, but come on
 

Myzozoa

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So, i'm just curious, why is everyone acting like actually debating someone who posted something this fucking laughable:



is gonna do anything helpful? I mean, i don't expect the mods to actually be helpful and realize that ignoring it is doing nothing helpful, but come on
i guess it is just the example it sets for impressionable young men, tik has said the same drivel and this conspiracy theory just circulates around especially around the election cycle in these parts.
 
never thought i would see the day where education is disparaged because it "indoctrinates the upcoming generation" presumably into being "leftists" or whatever
You're conflating education with academia. Education is absolutely important, but you don't neccessarily have to drop $50K+ and 3+ years of your life to get one; there are many other avenues that people need to be encouraged to consider before just blindly enrolling in college. It's a decision that isn't to be taken lightly, and many young people don't understand the consequences of what comes with it. The only reason you should attend college in todays age is if a degree is a legal requirement for the career you wish to pursue, and even then you should still weigh up if it's worth the investment or whether a different career would be a smarter choice. Outside of that, it's pretty much a total waste of time and money.

As for the leftism remark, it's pretty well known now that most colleges are heavily left-leaning rather than presenting students with a platform for politically neutral discourse, and the courses they teach on subjects like gender studies are full of biased quackery written by crackpots.
 

Myzozoa

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maybe stop trying to force demoness to read a thread where kman is saying all types of gross shit to her?

MODS DELETE THE POSTS I DONT LIKE MODS

MOOOOOOOODS
yeah why should i be bothered with people posting school shooterisms? it's not like our community has ever had any incidents lmao. But I'd admit I might want the distraction of Km and demoness if a quarter of the forum was posting like eliot rodgers.
 

atomicllamas

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never thought i would see the day where education is disparaged because it "indoctrinates the upcoming generation" presumably into being "leftists" or whatever

i know i have to be getting trolled (is this an alt? lol) here tho so props to you for getting me and others to take you seriously.
What do you mean you never thought you’d see this day? “Education is left wing indoctrination” has been a conservative talking point in US politics since at least the 90s, if not even earlier. The right wing pushes this theory because a less educated populace is good for them. Higher education levels are correlated with higher voter turnout (which in turn is correlated with a higher chance of a democratic victory). And more recently higher education corresponds with a an increased likelihood of voting for democrats among white people (p sure it always had for POC). This is because along with becoming anti-education the Republican Party is also increasingly anti-science. The obvious example of this being climate change.

The ironic part of this is that the majority of republican voters have spent an hour+ every Sunday being indoctrinated with conservative beliefs. And unlike college students who are adults and capable of independent thought, they’ve been exposed to this since before they could walk. It’s literally just projection.
 
wow, apparantely I somehow got a thread about me made based off a post that had nothing to do with the other person the thrread is about while kman is trying to insult me (look, you can admit you want to run me over with a car, your not hiding that kind of desire all that well). I will admit, did not expect that, but i'm also confused now

As for the leftism remark, it's pretty well known now that most colleges are heavily left-leaning rather than presenting students with a platform for politically neutral discourse, and the courses they teach on subjects like gender studies are full of biased quackery written by crackpots.
Shit, what kind of college's do you know of that are actually super left-leaning because that sounds like a cool as heck place to go
 

Mr.E

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Since some numbnuts had to go and unkill this topic: the value of your everyday liberal arts university degree is in more than the simple economic boon of finding yourself a nice cushy job with the right degree. They don't make you take a shitload of unrelated, low-level classes to help you do a job better, they do it so you become a well-rounded individual capable of improved critical thinking and social empathy. Like, some of you people should fucking know this, I know I'm not the only one with a degree here...

Personally I think the 9:1 male-to-female homeless ratio, or 13:1 prison population ratio, or 3.5:1 suicide ratio are far bigger problems than solving the <5% gender pay gap (which is really more like a 10% pay gap amongst the top 10% of earners anyway, so it's not like food is being taken off anyone's table), but I'll even take The He-Woman Man-Haters Club going back to calling all men rapists. At least sexual assault is an issue that actually matters.
 

Myzozoa

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yeah thats good news Mr.e because you'd lost the plot entirely with your invective and insult filled posts directed at a person who actually works at an all men homeless shelter that allows men to stay as long as they want and takes s/o's too. The 'He-Woman Man-Haters Club' (transphobia much?) are the same people who staff the all-male homeless shelters for practically no money precisely because they care about homelessness and the factors (low wages, violence, discrimination) that lead to homelessness, which all disproportionately affect women in our society.

And when you laugh away a 5-6% wage gap, thats just for white women and thats just an average, in some industries and for some women the gap is much bigger and part of the reason it is hard to win discrimination lawsuits is it's harder to demonstrate discrimination when it comes simultaneously along multiple axes such as when the discrimination in wages or hiring practices is directed towards black women.

The pretense that you actually care about these issues beyond re-iterating mra talking points is laughable to me at this point.
 
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Mr.E

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yeah thats good news Mr.e because you'd lost the plot entirely with your invective and insult filled posts -snip-
Critical sure, because I'm frankly tired of the liberal-leaning side of the interwebs constantly attacking and insulting me on account of my gender. Y'know, like women purportedly claim to be. Eye for an eye, I suppose, but personally I certainly haven't done anything wrong so bite my ass, stereotyping. Blindly attacking men is not equality, nor is it endearing men to help solve the problems men allegedly need to self-address amongst themselves to ensure women are treated fairly. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

But then I'm not sure you're actually reading my posts considering the entire extent of "insults" I've used consists of, and I quote, "[mean word]" plus a nonspecific "numbnuts" for the one who revived this topic. (And though lilyhollow bumped the topic, I was actually referring to OldM8's garbage anyway which I'm sure you approve.) Meanwhile, all topic you broadly call all men rapists. *shrug* Just seeing a Mr.E post containing cogent thoughts refuting radical feminist drivel is enough to get little ol' Myzozoa hot and bothered, ready to continue riding my dick until I concede the undeniable truth that is society's rampant discrimination against women in all facets (including the ones where women are statistically advantaged, probably). I can literally feel the privilege oozing from my white male pores right now, and oh how amazing it is. Better than sex, which of course I can get whenever I want by just walking outside and casually raping a random woman because I'm so big and strong.

I'm all for equality but equality works both ways. It's really a shame that "mens' rights activism" has become a pejorative, though quite frankly I blame the ever-increasing radicalization of modern "feminism" (if it can still be called that) forcing men to push back and turning all gender discourse into a shouting match about who has it worse instead of staying in their damn lane. If you don't think men have legitimate issues that deserve to be addressed, you're willfully blind. As for women, sexual assault is a big problem but broadly pushing the narrative that men are universally rapists certainly isn't doing anything to solve it. Neither is grossly exaggerating the wage gap, which I wish was discussed more honestly by people who matter because I think that's a rather more easily solved gender issue than most (in part because it's small).

also literally how is "The He-Woman Man-Haters Club" transphobic, are you retarded :blobglare:

And when you laugh away a 5-6% wage gap, thats just for white women and thats just an average, in some industries and for some women the gap is much bigger and part of the reason it is hard to win discrimination lawsuits is it's harder to demonstrate discrimination when it comes simultaneously along multiple axes such as when the discrimination in wages or hiring practices is directed towards black women.
Speaking of... Yes, that's what an average is. In some industries and for some women, the gap is much bigger. In other industries and for some women, women actually take home more than men. Don't try to make the issue sound more dire than it actually is (which is not very).

"If you take away all the situations where women are barely discriminated against, aren't at all discriminated against, or are even discriminated in favor of, women are heavily discriminated against!" :smogthink:

they care about homelessness and the factors (low wages, violence, discrimination) that lead to homelessness, which all disproportionately affect women in our society.
This is almost as dumb a sentence as Hillary's "Women have always been the primary victims of war." and is a perfect example of what I said above. Not everything has to be a gender issue and it isn't always women that are disadvantaged. Admitting that doesn't mean you're against women's equality.
 
]I mean, you make it incredibly easy to insult you considering you seem to actually think that its feminism's fault that "men;'s rights" became a perforative when that was done entirely by MRA's (which is made up of mostly men BTW, just want to make sure you know that, you don't seem to know much). But hey, keep up your dumb as fuck persecution complex I guess

Hell, i'll even help by providing a link to quick wiki article about the biggest "men's rights" website to help you maybe understand what I said
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Voice_for_Men

Yeah, totes feminism's fault that men rights has become a perforative when men saying they are fighting for "men's rights" do stuff like dox women, name October "Bash a Violent Bitch Month", and try to say 50% of rape accusations are false
 
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Mr.E

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"There exists radical antifeminists/MRAs, therefore men never experience problems related to their gender."

Please refer to the end of my previous post. Morons like you, who all but reject the reality that men have perfectly valid gender issues of their own that need addressed, are the reason people like Paul Elam exist as they do. Society has no sympathy for men as they do women and the only way to get most people to listen at all is when the radicals do something stupid enough to make news of mens' rights activism.
 
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One of the problems with mainstream MRA talking points is that they are often brought up in 'opposition' to feminists bringing up feminist issues (like people in this thread trying to 'counter' the idea of a gender wage gap by bringing up men's issues, instead of acknowledging it as its own separate problem). So the status of 'men's rights' as a counter-movement to feminism is like, consistently reinforced by that kind of behavior (as well as its history).

Another thing MRA talking points tend to do is paint themselves as 'separate from' feminist issues when they often are not. So I recall reading a previous post here where someone talked about all of these really great things, like fighting heteronormativity, letting boys be more feminine, not defining mens' worth by how much sex they have, and so on. But then, randomly, they said something like "Nobody's talking about this!" And of course that's not true at all, feminism most certainly does deal with all that sort of stuff.

I actually think a lot of young men are getting taken advantage with this, it makes me sad. I don't know if this is a common thing, but I remember talking with one guy who was sort of just getting into MRA stuff (like a sincere guy, he wasn't some opportunistic alt-right guy or anything). He's a feminist now because I guess someone showed him that, hey, a lot of these ideas you're talking about are actually repackaged feminism.
 
I just would like to add though, that many of the problems you have outlined affecting male populations are more a symptom of men pressuring other men and toxic masculinity than anything else. From my experiences and what I've learned, I really don't feel like misandry is a large issue for men but it's more the overall system of gender roles that is problematic.
The most fundamental issue of sexism males face is the double standard towards sexism itself. Wherever they face sexism, it never receives any publicity and society always either tries to tell us it's not "real sexism" or simply ignores it entirely. Those issues I outlined are all instances of misandry, and recognising that is the first step towards addressing this problem.

The use of the term "toxic masculinity" here is a form of misandry erasure. It's also a form of victim blaming because it blames males rather than the sexist societal influences and attitudes towards men which lead them to behave this way in the first place. For example, depictions of men in media such as television, film and advertising almost invariably portray them as sleazy idiots who spend most of their time salivating over and chasing female characters. Their worth and status is entirely defined by their success in "picking up" women, which is the holy grail of male existence. Those who fail to meet or engage in this expectation are mocked or shamed. This is just one of many ways in which misandrist ideas become internalized.

One of the problems with mainstream MRA talking points is that they are often brought up in 'opposition' to feminists bringing up feminist issues (like people in this thread trying to 'counter' the idea of a gender wage gap by bringing up men's issues, instead of acknowledging it as its own separate problem). So the status of 'men's rights' as a counter-movement to feminism is like, consistently reinforced by that kind of behavior (as well as its history).

Another thing MRA talking points tend to do is paint themselves as 'separate from' feminist issues when they often are not. So I recall reading a previous post here where someone talked about all of these really great things, like fighting heteronormativity, letting boys be more feminine, not defining mens' worth by how much sex they have, and so on. But then, randomly, they said something like "Nobody's talking about this!" And of course that's not true at all, feminism most certainly does deal with all that sort of stuff.

I actually think a lot of young men are getting taken advantage with this, it makes me sad. I don't know if this is a common thing, but I remember talking with one guy who was sort of just getting into MRA stuff (like a sincere guy, he wasn't some opportunistic alt-right guy or anything). He's a feminist now because I guess someone showed him that, hey, a lot of these ideas you're talking about are actually repackaged feminism.
A huge body of feminist ideology is predicated on the idea that men cannot experience sexism due to all problems in the world being attributed to a system they call the patriarchy. They say that any problems men face are all just womens problems in disguise, and if we fix all problems that women face, mens problems will also magically disappear. Not only is this idea patently false, but it's viewing the world through a feminist lens rather than an unbiased objective one.

Let's take your statement "letting boys be more feminine" as an example. There have been several recent cases where boys have been expelled or excluded from schools because they grew their hair to a length that's only deemed acceptable for girls. The feminist mantra here is "Long hair is considered feminine, femininity is considered a sign of weakness, and boys can't be seen as weak. Therefore, if we eliminate femininity as a sign of weakness, it will become acceptable for boys to have long hair". Firstly, it misses the point entirely. The objective isn't to allow boys to be "more feminine", it's to eliminate things like long hair, painted nails, etc as tokens of femininity entirely, because they have nothing to do with ones sex at all. Secondly, if you take off the feminist-tinted glasses, you can see that one of the actual reasons boys are having their freedom of expression suppressed here is due to a gender norm which states that men can't or aren't supposed to express features associated with beauty, as beauty is exclusively a female trait. So no, feminism does not "already deal with this stuff". It merely sees these cases as minor opportunities to push its own agenda, and it has nothing to do with actually helping or empathazing with the male victims.
 

GatoDelFuego

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Let's take your statement "letting boys be more feminine" as an example. There have been several recent cases where boys have been expelled or excluded from schools because they grew their hair to a length that's only deemed acceptable for girls. The feminist mantra here is "Long hair is considered feminine, femininity is considered a sign of weakness, and boys can't be seen as weak. Therefore, if we eliminate femininity as a sign of weakness, it will become acceptable for boys to have long hair"
Have there really been several recent cases? I can find exactly one boy suspended from a private new Zealand school for long hair
 

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