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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
This is the sqsa for OU, why would you mention that it's viable in other metagames
Because the question is off topic, but next time I'll be careful.
It's kinda my fault as well, as I just saw the name of the topic and assumed it was a general thread for taking off doubts. I'll ask a more relevant question next time.
Then let’s stop discussing it — thanks!
When building EV spreads, why does Smogon usually put the remaining EVs into either the Pokemon's Defense, Special Defense or HP? How do you know where to put the remaining EVs?
It puts the last 4 into the stat it thinks you'll need the most. If your moveset contains four physical moves it'll put them into a defensive stat, if you're mixed then into the lesser-used attack stat.
The showdown teambuilder always prioritizes getting an uneven HP to gain a small HP advantage on repeated switchins into entry hazards, status damage etc. as those are rounded down in such cases.
As such, with mons at level 100 (who have uneven hp if uninvested) usually hit that, it dumps them into special defense (for Download users, who usually prefer SpA boosts more than Atk boosts).
TL;DR: Some exceptions exist, but generally for offensive mons it tries to 1. make HP uneven, 2. maximize attack power on less used stat if applicable, 3. invest last point in defense.
Defensive mons just get the last 4 into the not-EV'd defense stat.
Thank you so much! This makes a lot more sense now!
Also, this sentence confuses me:
Hit what? And what does special defense have to do with Download boosts?
Usually, uninvested level 100 Pokemon hit uneven HP. Download boosts Special Attack if the target has lower Special Defense, and vice versa.
Oh, I see!
Although, do Level 100 Pokemon always have odd HP? If there is a Pokemon with even HP, wouldn't it still have even HP if I added 4 EVs to it? And if the HP is odd when left uninvested, why do I have to put the remaining EVs into Sp. Def? Isn't the Download case a bit too situational? I'd understand if it was VGC where Porygon is commonly seen, but in singles it's not really used all that much.
So from what I'm getting is this:
1. If you're a physical attacker, put your EVs into Defense.
2. If you're a level 100 Pokemon and your HP is odd when left uninvested, you should put those remaining EVs into Special Defense(?)
3. On mixed sets, put the EVs on the less used Attack Stat.
4. On defensive mons, just put the last EVs into the non-EV'd defense stat. Although how do you know which Defense stat to use?
The effect is extremely minor, but if you, say, had an even amount of HP before EVs (so, 4 EVs bringing your HP to 303 instead of 302) you'd be unable to come in on Stealth Rock an additional time. If you had an odd amount of HP before EVs you'd just redistribute it to one of the defenses if you're not running a mixed attacker or another offense if you are (so, think Mega Latios wanting the 4 Attack on top of the 252/252 Attack and Speed). If the mon you're using has the same base Defense and Special Defense, it's basically always better to dump the 4 EVs into Special Defense (assuming you don't have to hit an odd HP number) so you don't have an unfavorable matchup against an uncommon Download user.
Basically, it just varies from mon to mon, there are cases where you may want to speed creep (so, while you'd normally see a SpDef Toxapex you may see a Bold, mixed-bulky Pex that runs a little bit of Speed investment to speed creep stuff, etc.) even if you're inherently tanky. And in the most standard situations, like the scenarios I listed above, it doesn't hinder you whatsoever to prepare for situations like that since they're so inconsequential in most situations but can potentially make the difference in some.
Not quite. For the most point, adding 4 EVs increases a stat by 1 (sometimes you hit what is called a "jump point," but that's a whole other thing). And Porygon2 and Porygon-Z are common enough that you don't want to risk giving them a Special Attack boost when you can simply use the last 4 EVs to prevent it; it's not like the extra defense/special defense point would help all that much.
And on your questions, if you are what is considered a "sweeper" (physical or special), you typically want to go 252 in your attacking stat, 252 speed and then use the 4 extra EVs. That's a basic rule of thumb and there are obviously exceptions, but that's a good introduction to get started in competitive pokemon. As for questions 3 and 4, depending on the tier you are playing, there are certain mons that you need to account for more than others and you try to EV accordingly to hit those benchmarks (outspeed certain pokemon, turn 2HKOs into OHKOs, live 3 hits, etc), but these are all different in each tier and changes over time as mons become more common/viable or less common/viable.
EVs can be complicated and there are some other resources and articles around to help you out with this, but I hope this helped!
I guess thats true. Thanks for your help!
Ohhh yeah, forgot about that 4 EVs = 1 IV rule.
I think I understand it a bit better now, thanks for all of your help everyone!
Just saying Porygon 2 is RU, meaning it is not that common. Porygon-Z typically runs Adaptability instead of Download and isn't viable either. Dealing with Download was only common when Genesect was in OU.
Pory2 may be RU, but it can still be used in OU. Pory2 and Pory-Z combined for about 3% usage on low ladder last month (which is certainly enough to take into account when using your last 4 EVs), but when I said common enough, I didn't mean they were common in general. My point was that enough Download users exist that if you have the 4 extra EVs that don't fit anywhere else, you might as well use them to prevent a theoretical Download Pory2/Pory-Z from getting the SpA boost. As I said, "it's not like the extra defense point would help all that much." It's more about playing it safe rather than risking the odd Download user taking advantage of you when your one extra point in special defense won't help very much
The fact is, putting 4EV in def/spdef to control the download boost only work on a few Pokémon in the metagame, those who has the same base stat in both defenses. It's a very special case, which is not that relevant to mention in Over Used.
Correct, but in those instances, there is no reason not to invest the last 4 EVs to prevent the SpA boost. Look, I was answering the person's initial questions (and correctly). I'm not responding to any more of this, but y'alls tone needs to improve to not sound so critical of correct answers. Yes, it is situational, but the information is not wrong (I even mentioned rule of thumbs because EVs are very complex and situational to new users)
Can someone explain to me the role Moltres filled on bro fist’s WCOP team? Is it a pressure core with Zapdos? What is Moltres’s niche in OU?
The pressure stall core is a big reason. It can beat other stall teams easier since it has 2 pressure users. But it is also a nice check to things that can be annoying to stall like kart, Volc, bulu, etc. It also fits well on stall teams cause of magic bounce sableye making it harder for rocks to go up and the aforementioned pressure.
That and it also runs sub + defog and speed to help it check/stall Z Heatran and manage the early game against lead Excadrill.
Interesting. I guess I was just confused because for the most part it seems like the things Zap and Tres check are similar (I guess Tres can switch into Heatran a bit better) but otherwise it almost seems to me like it’s just the closest thing to running two (dos?) Zapdos.
How do we feel about Pelliper on non rain builds? Either as a specs breaker or bulky defogger. I feel like it forms an interesting hurricane spam core with Torn-T (either of which can defog).
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I've seen Specs Pelipper being used effectivly on certain teams, especially since common water resists (Bulu, Tang etc.) are weak to Hurricane. As a bulky defogger it seems outclassed by Tornadus and even Tapu Fini if looking for a water resist.
So Moltres is apparently viable in OU now. What set/spread does it run? I'd imagine something like Sub+Roost+Toxic+Flamethrower with a Timid nature, since it's apparently good on Stall for similar reasons to why Zapdos is good on Stall, but I haven't seen Moltres used a single time yet.
I don't remember the nature + EVs, but as Finchinator mentioned the set is actually Sub + Defog, with Roost and Flamethrower as fillers.