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Finchinator

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Which pokemon will be legal in OU once DLC 2 drops? I recall reading something along the lines of "all mons that aren't cover legends" but I don't know whether that's true. Will any mons of the current banlist be unbanned? The list consists of Galarian Darmanitan, Kyurem Black, Melmetal, Magearna, and Cinderace, if I remember correctly.
I can confidently say that at least a few of those will be unbanned and a lot of Pokemon will be tried out to start the metagame.

What will be the council's policy on quickbans? For example, will we see small groups banned each week, if enough of them were broken? Or would the pattern be more random?
We will likely be quick to act on more obvious problems, especially if we are unanimous. However, the exact timing of it is still up in the air.
 
I haven't played Pokémon since 2 months after Isle of Armor dropped, so I am very surprised to see that Slowbro is UU now. Why did it drop that low?
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
I haven't played Pokémon since 2 months after Isle of Armor dropped, so I am very surprised to see that Slowbro is UU now. Why did it drop that low?
The thrive of Urshifu-S in usage alongside Rillaboom and also Magnezone gave Slowbro a tough place in the metagame. Urshifu-S is just better checked by Toxapex (as a bulky water, since it fears no type-disadvantage) and either Clefable or Mandibuzz as a partner. Rillaboom and Magnezone give Slowbro also a trouble on the field, since Magnezone can just use a strong Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt on Slowbro or it can Volt Switch out to Rillaboom. That combination is very common in the metagame and Slowbro has a lot of problems with it. Furthermore Dragapult is very common and can just dish out a status on Slowbro and can use a strong Hex in the process. Dark-types like Zarude are also in a great spot at the moment and Zarude doesn't fear much except a burn from Scald, which it can heal with Jungle Healing. Aegislash also sees a small comeback, which is 1 more Mon, which Slowbro fears, especially the Choice Specs-Set, as a Stab Shadow Ball will just dent through Slowbro. Volcarona is also really common, which is another Mon Slowbro fears to face. So in overall the thrive of usage of particular Pokemon like these hinder Slowbro to do its job and make it that it has a tough time on the field. Other bulky waters are just prefered currently as they either have no type-disadvantage in the case of Toxapex or have a decent typing to begin with in the case of Primarina, which also is a great Setup-Sweeper behind a Substitute.
 
The thrive of Urshifu-S in usage alongside Rillaboom and also Magnezone gave Slowbro a tough place in the metagame. Urshifu-S is just better checked by Toxapex (as a bulky water, since it fears no type-disadvantage) and either Clefable or Mandibuzz as a partner. Rillaboom and Magnezone give Slowbro also a trouble on the field, since Magnezone can just use a strong Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt on Slowbro or it can Volt Switch out to Rillaboom. That combination is very common in the metagame and Slowbro has a lot of problems with it. Furthermore Dragapult is very common and can just dish out a status on Slowbro and can use a strong Hex in the process. Dark-types like Zarude are also in a great spot at the moment and Zarude doesn't fear much except a burn from Scald, which it can heal with Jungle Healing. Aegislash also sees a small comeback, which is 1 more Mon, which Slowbro fears, especially the Choice Specs-Set, as a Stab Shadow Ball will just dent through Slowbro. Volcarona is also really common, which is another Mon Slowbro fears to face. So in overall the thrive of usage of particular Pokemon like these hinder Slowbro to do its job and make it that it has a tough time on the field. Other bulky waters are just prefered currently as they either have no type-disadvantage in the case of Toxapex or have a decent typing to begin with in the case of Primarina, which also is a great Setup-Sweeper behind a Substitute.
Yikes, this meta looks like fuuuuun, hehe....

Hope Lando brings some order in this mess, thx 4 the answer!
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
Can we retest Kyogre in OU? chansey/blissey /Gastrodon/ferrothorn/kyurem walls him to death,also there are many fast mons/priority moves can OHKO him(such as koko,lele,zeraora,kartana,moves like grassy glide,etc)
hello,

kyogre as a box legend will be banned to ubers automatically first and foremost, kyogre is the same case as groudon, xerneas, yveltal and any other legend it will move directly to the uber tier.

2nd of all, kyogre has only a very limited amount of switch-ins of mons, which can "safely" come in on it, as water spout does a huge chunk to even blissey and chansey, and it doesnt matter if that is scarfed or specsed. furthermore being limited to a small amount of water absorbers or 1 storm drain mon makes it very restrictive in teambuilding already and kyogre can opt to use a mixed set as well to make it harder for them to consistently check it. kyogre just has no place in the ou tier whatsoever.
 
Can we retest Kyogre in OU? chansey/blissey /Gastrodon/ferrothorn/kyurem walls him to death,also there are many fast mons/priority moves can OHKO him(such as koko,lele,zeraora,kartana,moves like grassy glide,etc)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 427-504 (60.7 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 218-257 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem in Rain: 259-306 (57 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 147-173 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

hope this helps.
 
Hey-Why do some mons run unoptimal stat spreads? Zeraora, for example, usually runs 252+ speed-But why? 248+ still outspeeds Dragapult, the only thing that Zeraora runs max speed for at all, aside from Talonflame which is fringe at best. Or like, why doesn't Pex run 4 Spe instead of 4 SpD-Outspeeds all the other Pexes and speed ties with Hatterene and Reuniclus on their standard builds-who run speed specifically for Pex! It seems like stat points are going to waste unknowingly--Pult can run like 220+ speed (I haven't checked yet but that seems about right) and still outpace Adamant/Jolly Zeraora. Maybe I'm the first one to think about this, but I doubt it-the stat spreads are definitely unoptimal, however.
 

ViZar

your toast is burned
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Hey-Why do some mons run unoptimal stat spreads? Zeraora, for example, usually runs 252+ speed-But why? 248+ still outspeeds Dragapult, the only thing that Zeraora runs max speed for at all, aside from Talonflame which is fringe at best. Or like, why doesn't Pex run 4 Spe instead of 4 SpD-Outspeeds all the other Pexes and speed ties with Hatterene and Reuniclus on their standard builds-who run speed specifically for Pex! It seems like stat points are going to waste unknowingly--Pult can run like 220+ speed (I haven't checked yet but that seems about right) and still outpace Adamant/Jolly Zeraora. Maybe I'm the first one to think about this, but I doubt it-the stat spreads are definitely unoptimal, however.
I'm not sure myself, but I think one reason might be that it isn't worth it. Zera can run 248+ speed EVs but do you want to do with the other 4 EVs. And in the Pex vs Pex situation I don't think it matters.
Pult can run enough EVs to outrun Alakazam, but that's only really viable in a mixed set and I think, you would like to speed tie with other pults.
I'm not a pro by any means, so take this with a grain of salt.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
Hey-Why do some mons run unoptimal stat spreads? Zeraora, for example, usually runs 252+ speed-But why? 248+ still outspeeds Dragapult,
Zeraora runs 252 speed instead of 248 to still speed tie with other 252+ jolly /hasty / naive Zeraora and it doesnt get outsped by opposing Zeraora.

Or like, why doesn't Pex run 4 Spe instead of 4 SpD-Outspeeds all the other Pexes
Toxapex doesnt need speed investment because it needs everything what can be invested into its bulk, and speed creeping is only necessary in specific circumstances like tournament games, but outside of them, there arent any special cases of EV spreads needed as the usual spreads do it for the ladder and also they are already optimized in the analysis of the particular Pokemon.
Pult can run like 220+ speed (I haven't checked yet but that seems about right) and still outpace Adamant/Jolly Zeraora. Maybe I'm the first one to think about this, but I doubt it-the stat spreads are definitely unoptimal, however.
Dragapult is naturally slower than Zeraora by exactly 1 point if they have a + Speed nature and 252 invest in their speed-stat, furthermore adamant Zeraora isn't a thing hence why Dragapult doesnt need to worry about 220+ Speed. Dragapult needs its full invest in speed as well, as it doesn't wanna get outpaced by opposing Dragapult in the game.
 
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Ruft

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Hey-Why do some mons run unoptimal stat spreads? Zeraora, for example, usually runs 252+ speed-But why? 248+ still outspeeds Dragapult, the only thing that Zeraora runs max speed for at all, aside from Talonflame which is fringe at best. Or like, why doesn't Pex run 4 Spe instead of 4 SpD-Outspeeds all the other Pexes and speed ties with Hatterene and Reuniclus on their standard builds-who run speed specifically for Pex! It seems like stat points are going to waste unknowingly--Pult can run like 220+ speed (I haven't checked yet but that seems about right) and still outpace Adamant/Jolly Zeraora. Maybe I'm the first one to think about this, but I doubt it-the stat spreads are definitely unoptimal, however.
As has been stated above, you'd run 252+ Speed on Zeraora for other Zeraora (and Jolly in the first place for +Speed Dragapult). 252 Speed with an Adamant nature is also fine; it still outpaces neutral Speed natured Dragapult, but 128+ (or 252+) Speed Dragapult exists to outspeed it (you're definitely not the first one to think of this). As for Toxapex, outspeeding other Toxapex only very rarely comes into play. However, it can indeed be useful to outspeed and use Haze on Hatterene and Reuniclus as you mentioned, but then again those Pokemon can run more Speed in return as well. Investing in Speed specifically for other Pokemon with specific Speed benchmarks is called speed creep. In analyses on the Smogon dex, speed creep to outpace Pokemon with investment other than 0 or 252 Speed EVs is not done because it's a slippery slope where there's simply no objective line to draw as to how far you can go. You can definitely engage in speed creep yourself in the builder and it is common practice for tournament play, but you can't expect to see it in analyses.
 
I'm not sure myself, but I think one reason might be that it isn't worth it. Zera can run 248+ speed EVs but do you want to do with the other 4 EVs. And in the Pex vs Pex situation I don't think it matters.
Pult can run enough EVs to outrun Alakazam, but that's only really viable in a mixed set and I think, you would like to speed tie with other pults.
I'm not a pro by any means, so take this with a grain of salt.
Zeraora runs 252 speed instead of 248 to still speed tie with other 252+ jolly /hasty / naive Zeraora and it doesnt get outsped by opposing Zeraora.



Toxapex doesnt need speed investment because it needs everything what can be invested into its bulk, and speed creeping is only necessary in specific circumstances like tournament games, bout outside of them, there arent any special cases of EV spreads needed as the usual spreads do it for the ladder and also they are already optimized in the analysis of the particular Pokemon.


Dragapult is naturally slower than Zeraora by exactly 1 point if they have a + Speed nature and 252 invest in their speed-stat, furthermore adamant Zeraora isn't a thing hence why Dragapult doesnt need to worry about 220+ Speed. Dragapult needs its full invest in speed as well, as it doesn't wanna get outpaced by opposing Dragapult in the game.
As has been stated above, you'd run 252+ Speed on Zeraora for other Zeraora (and Jolly in the first place for +Speed Dragapult). 252 Speed with an Adamant nature is also fine; it still outpaces neutral Speed natured Dragapult, but 128+ (or 252+) Speed Dragapult exists to outspeed it (you're definitely not the first one to think of this). As for Toxapex, outspeeding other Toxapex only very rarely comes into play. However, it can indeed be useful to outspeed and use Haze on Hatterene and Reuniclus as you mentioned, but then again those Pokemon can run more Speed in return as well. Investing in Speed specifically for other Pokemon with specific Speed benchmarks is called speed creep. In analyses on the Smogon dex, speed creep to outpace Pokemon with investment other than 0 or 252 Speed EVs is not done because it's a slippery slope where there's simply no objective line to draw as to how far you can go. You can definitely engage in speed creep yourself in the builder and it is common practice for tournament play, but you can't expect to see it in analyses.
Okay, thanks guys!
 
Wasn't around much in previous gens, so can someone briefly let me know why Genesect was considered such a threat and what its niche was?
 
Wasn't around much in previous gens, so can someone briefly let me know why Genesect was considered such a threat and what its niche was?
Well you see there’s a few things. First of all-those stats. Its bulk is fine but that’s not the strength behind the mon. Those mixed offenses are fantastic and make Genesect super unpredictable. Then we have Download-it boosts Genesect’s offenses based on what it’s up against, so it will always be a major threat against whatever it’s facing given the right move. And that brings me to the next point- Genesect has a massive, unpredictable, incredible movepool. Scarf sets can conceivably run almost any move, and STAB U-turn lets it abuse its powerful attack and good speed to generate easy, constant momentum. The typing is pretty good and lets it get STAB on U-turn, while also letting it constantly come in-it can take a hit if it really needs to, and its endless versatility let it do whatever it wants-mixed E-belt/LO, Scarf, Band, Specs, Drives, HDB, with all sorts of versatile coverage to make it nigh unwallable. Not to mention Shift Gear! One of the best boosting moves in the game to boot. Have a Scarf answer? Either it U-turns out and brings in something that kills your answer, or it isn’t Scarf at all and kills your mon on the spot. The only advocates for it staying are the awkward speed, lack of STAB for good offensive types like Fire and instead those types being relegated to coverage, and the fact that none of the sets are completely busted on their own-the teammates and other surprises Genesect can have are really what makes it such a threat. Also, don’t just take my word here as law, there are better and more experienced players that are also way more informed, this is just my understanding.
 
Is there a way to use steelroller (the tutored steel move from Isle of armor that removes terrain and does lotsa damage, but fail if there's no terrain) reliably and efficiently, or is this only a "garbage" move ? On paper it seems like a good way to shut your opponents expanding force and stuff like that, but i've never seen it used at all.
 
Is there any convenient place to see the most used sets for specific pokemon? Like I played against a Kommo-o that ran sub belly drum salac and i'm just trying to find out the spread for it?
 
Is there a way to use steelroller (the tutored steel move from Isle of armor that removes terrain and does lotsa damage, but fail if there's no terrain) reliably and efficiently, or is this only a "garbage" move ? On paper it seems like a good way to shut your opponents expanding force and stuff like that, but i've never seen it used at all.
I've seen a pretty interesting Team from elo Bandit, which uses Steel Roller on Choice Banded Azumarill. I will link it here.
Also I've made a slightly different Version of the Team which is a little more meta, feel free to contact me if you want me to send it to you.
 
Is there any convenient place to see the most used sets for specific pokemon? Like I played against a Kommo-o that ran sub belly drum salac and i'm just trying to find out the spread for it?
There is a seperate website called Pikalytics that has usage stats that update every month and also usage of ev spreads and moves for specific pokemon

Also for your specific example, they probably used the belly drum set from last gen:

Kommo-o @ Salac Berry
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
 
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Hey I was just wondering whether Glastrier and Spectrier are starting in ou.
They both look rlly damn good but Spectrier just seems obnoxious. 145/130 offenses with snowball potential on top of the fantastic Stab. As if that wasn't enough it also gets fricking nasty plot

Glastrier has better bulk but is considerably slower with just 30 speed so it seems to just be ice melmetal with better SpD. Does get SD but I doubt it will make good use of grim neigh cos of how easily revenge killed
 
Hey I was just wondering whether Glastrier and Spectrier are starting in ou.
They both look rlly damn good but Spectrier just seems obnoxious. 145/130 offenses with snowball potential on top of the fantastic Stab. As if that wasn't enough it also gets fricking nasty plot

Glastrier has better bulk but is considerably slower with just 30 speed so it seems to just be ice melmetal with better SpD. Does get SD but I doubt it will make good use of grim neigh cos of how easily revenge killed
Yes but not the fusions with Calyrex. If I'm being honest I don't think Spectrier will stay in OU for long.
 

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