Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[hecatomb]

Blissey C- to C. I think people underestimate how good Blissey can be on stall, with eviolite being nerfed chansey can be annoying at times. Though on stall I think Blissey can be used better, she pretty much takes like no damage from sp attacks, and seeing how most of the top mons all use sp attacks, she can just wall them off. Pheromosa, landorus t and mega metagross give chansey problems. If Blissey gets knocked off, she only loses leftovers, if chansey gets knocked off, she just becomes useless. I dont think Blissey is that great on offense, though just try her on stall she is really good.

 

[IQMathlete]

Blissey C- to C. I think people underestimate how good Blissey can be on stall, with eviolite being nerfed chansey can be annoying at times. Though on stall I think Blissey can be used better, she pretty much takes like no damage from sp attacks, and seeing how most of the top mons all use sp attacks, she can just wall them off. Pheromosa, landorus t and mega metagross give chansey problems. If Blissey gets knocked off, she only loses leftovers, if chansey gets knocked off, she just becomes useless. I dont think Blissey is that great on offense, though just try her on stall she is really good.

Eviolite wasn't nerfed iirc, and the stuff that give Chansey problems give Blissey even more problems due to its lower bulk. The only thing Blissey has over Chansey is less susceptibility to Knock Off.

 

[Colonel M]

I'm going to be short and brief - Eviolite was never nerfed.

And as the writer for Omastar - Waterium Z Shell Smash is indeed its niche. Ash-Greninja also can do a significant amount of work against rain teams because Water Shuriken and Hydro Pump get boosted to extreme levels while Dark Pulse doesn't have any good switch-ins in most rain teams unless you're fucking insane and using absurdity like Specially Defensive Toxicroak or something. Unless you quadruple resist Hydro Pump / Water Shuriken or are immune to Water moves you're going to have a bad time. That's why Scarf Keldeo also does decently versus rain as well - it receives a power boost, hard to switch into, and Scarf outspeeds unboosted Swift Swimmers.

Scizor shouldn't drop either. While indeed a magnet to some Pokemon, it also securely checks and manhandles a lot of threatening Pokemon at the moment. If anything it needs to rise.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Eviolite wasn't nerfed iirc, and the stuff that give Chansey problems give Blissey even more problems due to its lower bulk. The only thing Blissey has over Chansey is less susceptibility to Knock Off.

*and Leftovers recovery, a very minor speed boost, slightly more Wish healing, and having the option to use actual attacks due to its Special Attack being not-garbage. But not being crippled by Knock Off is definitely the main thing.

 

[Futatsuiwa of Sado]

Blissey C- to C. I think people underestimate how good Blissey can be on stall, with eviolite being nerfed chansey can be annoying at times. Though on stall I think Blissey can be used better, she pretty much takes like no damage from sp attacks, and seeing how most of the top mons all use sp attacks, she can just wall them off. Pheromosa, landorus t and mega metagross give chansey problems. If Blissey gets knocked off, she only loses leftovers, if chansey gets knocked off, she just becomes useless. I dont think Blissey is that great on offense, though just try her on stall she is really good.

There's only like two reasons to actually use Blissey over Chansey right now.

1. Blissey stops certain stallbreakers that Chansey doesn't due to better offenses and access to Calm Mind, those being Gengar and Manaphy. Chansey can't touch Taunt Gengar but Blissey can with whatever coverage you choose to run on it since Gengar does nothing back to Blissey. Blissey can set up Calm Minds against Manaphy to tank hits from it and then hit it back with a boosted Thunderbolt. Also, I guess Blissey can run Shed Shell to prevent being trapped by sash reversal Dugtrio like it used to when Goth was around.

2. Like others have mentioned, Blissey isn't as vulnerable to Knock Off.

Now the main issue here is that many more Gengar are running Choice+Trick sets nowadays and Manaphy is far less common than it was in ORAS. Chansey is just the superior option in most cases due to its superior bulk and not needing to give up support options unless your team is super weak to Knock Off, Manaphy and Taunt Gengar.

 

[hecatomb]

I thought I remember someone here was talking about eviolite was nerfed, guess not. Though C- seems kind of too low for blissey, C seems fine. More things can run knock off like, tangrowth, landorus t, Muk, and even mega sableye. Sure blissey wont make it to A rank or even A- It seems fine at C rank.

 

[Mon of Steel]

Don't y'all have anything better to do than discuss the viability of Blissey?

I think it'd be a better idea to put all that energy you used for Blissey into some other mon that has actual metagame presence (i.e. Tapu Koko)

 

[hecatomb]

Don't y'all have anything better to do than discuss the viability of Blissey?

I think it'd be a better idea to put all that energy you used for Blissey into some other mon that has actual metagame presence (i.e. Tapu Koko)

As funny as this is, tapu koko cant do jack to Blissey. Either way some mons more looking into, cause some only work well on offense teams and others only on stall teams. You should play both to get a better understand of both sides.

 

[tigers jaw]

You are missing the point, once again. People would (or rather, should) prefer to discuss the viability of Pokemon that are actually relevant instead of shitmons that you're never really going to see, regardless of their "niches". This is a resource that mainly acts as a primer for newer players to get a grasp on what are the biggest threats and most viable Pokemon in the meta, really; the lower ranks are more like footnotes or condolence prizes for Pokemon that you're never really going to consider for a team or encounter.

It'd be really appreciated if you took some form of tutoring, asked more questions (come to the OU room on PS sometime, there are a few competent users who'd most definitely be willing to help you out), and played a little more. I don't mean to be overly critical or insensitive, but you have the most remarkable ability to derail threads with your ignorance and complete lack of coherence. I am sure I don't just speak for myself when I say this, either, as it's something that other users have aired their issues with for some time now.

 

[Ash Borer]

I get the feeling that Ash-Greninja kind of outclasses the rest of A+. Don't get me wrong, Greninja has its shortcomings, and Celesteela, Koko, Lele and Chomper are all very good; I think there is a clear division here.

Battle Bond Greninja is what I would consider an outrageous Pokemon. It's restrictive to teambuilding and outrageously powerful in the right situations, whereas the other A+ Pokemon are not nearly as much so. Yes Greninja is going to be stopped cold by the likes Toxapex or Ferrothorn on balance teams, but with just a bit of lure support, or just a good matchup Ash-Greninja has little trouble consistently outspeeding and 1 shotting everything. Water is just such a great offensive typing due to Hydro Pump's great power and the lack of available immunities to it. Topped off by Water Shuriken being super strong priority in a frankly priority starved metagame, Battle Bond Greninja has that sort of "ridiculous" quality where it can just turn matches on their head and blow teams apart given the right match up.

By my estimation none of the rest of the A+ rank really has this quality. Lele is stupidly strong, but it is quite slow for an offensive mon, and giving it a scarf means that it needs quite a fair bit of team support at eliminating steel-types. You either have to predict the metagross/magearna switch in and hit it super effectively or do little damage, this makes it a lot easier to handle than the S-rank Pokemon I wish to compare it to. Garchomp is very versatile and has a lot of merits, but again it doesn't have that outrageous pop to it. Yeah it can wallbreak, scarf and SR, but all of these sets are specialized, and dont just carry a match by themselves. Koko is often too restricted by the opponent's Ground- and Grass-types to do more than U-turn a lot in the early game, and then in the lategame the opponent's scarfer will prevent it from cleaning. Yes a great and fast attacker, but having to wrestle with immunities puts it at a lesser power than Ash-Greninja.

So yes there is my piece on Battle Bond Greninja. It has to struggle with less flaws and has a more restrictive effect on team building compared to the rest of A+. For these reasons I believe it belongs in the S-rank

Honestly, I see the thing more on the ladder than I do Protean. People use it that much for a good reason I think.

 

[GH[O]ST]

Im a big Ash Greninja fan and I even think it's as good as Protean gren ( which is A+ imo, but thats another discussion), but i dont see it being either overall noticeably better than the current A+ tier( except garchomp which needs to drop imo) or as good as the big 3 of ou (m meta, lando t, phero).

Ash greninja does not have the immediate ability to break multiple archetypes like the big 3 S class mons do. It has the potential to, but thats only if it can log a KO over the course of a game. Thats a pretty big if given the fact that any well built team comes prepared with vital water and dark resists.

Ash greninja is with impressive company in A+. I think youre selling the rest of a+ short

Koko comes out swinging significantly harder and faster than battle bond greninja, is bulkier, and generates momentum better than battle bond gren. Obviously ash gren eclipses koko after the transformation but you cant take kokos initial strength away from it

Celesteela is an excellent tank and ground immunity. One of the best defensive typings in the game. It doesnt stop at defense either. You want to talk about turning matchups on their heads and blowing apart teams then look no further than automize celesteela which can destroy virtually anything not named chansey (perhaps a physical set can do a number?)

Lele is a former S tier mon that hits like a truck,can break both fat teams and even offense, and brings its ridiculous terrain to the field.

Theres nothing about ash greninja that screams s tier to me. It is easy to keep at bay (not really by ferrothorn and toxapex by the way, who find it hard to eat dark pulses and flinches) and is very straightforward

 

[Vinsader]

I get the feeling that Ash-Greninja kind of outclasses the rest of A+. Don't get me wrong, Greninja has its shortcomings, and Celesteela, Koko, Lele and Chomper are all very good; I think there is a clear division here.

Battle Bond Greninja is what I would consider an outrageous Pokemon. It's restrictive to teambuilding and outrageously powerful in the right situations, whereas the other A+ Pokemon are not nearly as much so. Yes Greninja is going to be stopped cold by the likes Toxapex or Ferrothorn on balance teams, but with just a bit of lure support, or just a good matchup Ash-Greninja has little trouble consistently outspeeding and 1 shotting everything. Water is just such a great offensive typing due to Hydro Pump's great power and the lack of available immunities to it. Topped off by Water Shuriken being super strong priority in a frankly priority starved metagame, Battle Bond Greninja has that sort of "ridiculous" quality where it can just turn matches on their head and blow teams apart given the right match up.

By my estimation none of the rest of the A+ rank really has this quality. Lele is stupidly strong, but it is quite slow for an offensive mon, and giving it a scarf means that it needs quite a fair bit of team support at eliminating steel-types. You either have to predict the metagross/magearna switch in and hit it super effectively or do little damage, this makes it a lot easier to handle than the S-rank Pokemon I wish to compare it to. Garchomp is very versatile and has a lot of merits, but again it doesn't have that outrageous pop to it. Yeah it can wallbreak, scarf and SR, but all of these sets are specialized, and dont just carry a match by themselves. Koko is often too restricted by the opponent's Ground- and Grass-types to do more than U-turn a lot in the early game, and then in the lategame the opponent's scarfer will prevent it from cleaning. Yes a great and fast attacker, but having to wrestle with immunities puts it at a lesser power than Ash-Greninja.

So yes there is my piece on Battle Bond Greninja. It has to struggle with less flaws and has a more restrictive effect on team building compared to the rest of A+. For these reasons I believe it belongs in the S-rank

Honestly, I see the thing more on the ladder than I do Protean. People use it that much for a good reason I think.

Well, it does having around 20% usage, which is huge (not like Lando 50%, but Lando lol).
Honestly i agree. People also started to use 3attacks, life orb and taunt which actually help stallbreaking too. As you said, it's pretty much the cleaner in OU unless there is Psychic terrain up. Water-Shuriken specs is hitting hard as Talonflame in gen6.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 171-201 (42.3 - 49.7%)
252 Atk Sharp Beak Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%)

Without stealth Rocks weakness. without recoil. Sure, Flying is a better offensive type, but water is a very very good one too. Unlike talonflame, it's other attacks pack a mighty punch too, and it's blazing fast as well. Add Rain and it's going to 2hko or 1hko with hydro pump unless it's a pink blob the entire tier.

Ash-Gren is a mix between a cleaner and a wallbreaker. and the whole niche of "oh shit i can't let it transform" makes the opposing guy to switch around and let more things to take huge damage in return. if it does transform, it can change the match entirely.
Because how Fini is everywhere, she's getting pressured even more. the lack of recovery isn't going to help her blocking the transformation forever. in rain teams? even less of a chance.
Beside specially defensive Toxapex and AV Tang (and of course the pink blobs), most pokemons aren't going to enjoy Dark Pulse/Hydro punp forever. Gastrodon need to be specially defensive, and then it's just going to die to physical attacks very soon. Fini is pressured by too much threats she's supposed to block, and with hazzards support and knocking off her Lefties she's not going to last. Bulu is going to be 2hko'd after rocks and a little damage from recoil. Ferro can't switch forever as well, and is a huge bait for Charizard X/Volcarona (which are good teammates for Ash-Gren)

If there was a S- tier, i think it should have gone there, but there isn't. it does need more support than the S tier, but as Ash Borer said, it's better than all of the A+ tier.

So yeah, I agree about Ash-Greninja going to S as well. or just make S- like in ubers lol

 

[volx757]

Ash-Greninja -> S disagree

What sets ash-ninja apart and slightly below the S-rank mons is that it's not nearly as versatile. It's fast, powerful, has a great offensive typing, and has priority. But all these things amount to a fantastic breaker/cleaner post-transformation, and nothing else. Don't get me wrong, before ppl get all 'are you kidding it's so strong, it's so fast,' I am NOT underselling ash-ninja. But for it to be S-rank, it would have to have more versatility in sets.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So it needs specs in order to have a spot over protean ninja. Otherwise it's just a ninja with better speed and a lesser movepool. Ash-ninja can do amazing things under rain, but it's viability on one archetype isn't enough to push it into S-rank.
Compare it to protean, which can run literally any set it needs to based on teams, and it just doesn't stack up as being a great pick no matter what the team.

The "oh shit i can't let it transform" works in both ninja-forms' favor. Perhaps even better for protean, since a switchin to protean ninja is also a switchin to ash-ninja, but the inverse is not true.
Switching your ferro into predicted ash-ninja hydro? Get rocked by hp-fire. Switching fini in? Get rocked by gunk. Switching to chansey? Get smacked w a low kick. Switching to MVenu? get bopped by extrasensory.

AND. And. This can all be on ONE SET. That's the kind of versatility that earns S-rank. (see anyone's opinion anywhere for how landot is in the same boat). Granted, ash-ninja has room for 1 coverage move of choice (assuming hydro/shuriken/dpulse are mandatory), but that will leave it checked by something. You want ice beam for tang, but you also want hp-fire for ferro, and extrasensory for mvenu. Ash-ninja has to pick 1, protean ninja can have it all.
IMO, that's the difference between an excellent A+ mon and a meta-defining S mon.

 

[Srn]

I really don't agree with Ash greninja rising to S, I think its fine in A+

what makes protean so dangerous is how unpredictable and customizable it is to a team, it can run whatever your team needs to hit from gunk shot, water shuriken, ice beam, hp fire, spikes, low kick, extrasensory etc etc and is thus way more difficult to scout and play around.
Ash greninja, while boasting higher power and speed, not only needs to get a kill to get that boost (and is pretty subpar before it), but its far more predictable, and far easier to prepare for. it places a MUCH MUCH lower strain on teambuilding from a strictly defensive point of view than protean ninja does.

The way I see it, I can slap on a tapu fini or av tangrowth and call it a day vs ash ninja on the 36th BUlky offense bullcrap i'm building. But that does not even come close to cutting it when it comes to protean ninja, you need something like AV magearna too, or celesteela/ferro, etc etc. The way that I can be adequately safe vs Ash ninja just by slapping on one pokemon but not vs protean really highlights the difference and their presence to me. You can see that with other pokemon too, unless its mega scizor, there's no one pokemon you can slap on a team and consider yourself solid vs mega metagross, and the same applies to lando-t, you can't really just slap on a Celesteela and call yourself safe when offensive Rockium Z blows you away.

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

Greninja-Ash can't transform without KOing a Pokemon meaning that literally switching in on it will stop it from transforming, and switching it on it isn't that hard since it only has room for STAB attacks (and U-turn but you're not gonna be transforming into Ash form with that due to switching out immediately). Take your pick: Tapu Fini, Tapu Bulu, AV Tangrowth, Toxapex, AV Magearna, Keldeo. Because of this it's bad against stall, which is a common sight nowadays. 101+ Scarfers are also common nowadays as is Pheromosa. Protean Greninja doesn't need Choice Specs and can run and has more room for coverage moves. The rest of S is far more consistent. It's not even the best Pokemon in A+, that award goes to Celesteela, which walls half the tier and Leech Seeds its way to victory. Even Scarf Garchomp's better IMO due to all the boosters and generally fast Pokemon running around.

 

[volx757]

Also volx757, those calc comparisons are nonexistent since they're both guaranteed 2HKOs.

I think you mean those calcs are irrelevant, in which case yea that was my point. Without specs Ash-gren is literally a worse ninja, and with it it's a choice-locked hitter that's not exceptionally hard to play around/check with the same prep any A-rank mon deserves.

 

[Ash Borer]

Greninja-Ash can't transform without KOing a Pokemon meaning that literally switching in on it will stop it from transforming, and switching it on it isn't that hard since it only has room for STAB attacks (and U-turn but you're not gonna be transforming into Ash form with that due to switching out immediately). Take your pick: Tapu Fini, Tapu Bulu, AV Tangrowth, Toxapex, AV Magearna, Keldeo. Because of this it's bad against stall, which is a common sight nowadays. 101+ Scarfers are also common nowadays as is Pheromosa. Protean Greninja doesn't need Choice Specs and can run and has more room for coverage moves. The rest of S is far more consistent. It's not even the best Pokemon in A+, that award goes to Celesteela, which walls half the tier and Leech Seeds its way to victory. Even Scarf Garchomp's better IMO due to all the boosters and generally fast Pokemon running around.

honestly bulu, keldeo tang and magearna are uncompelling examples. Both Bulu and Tang fall to ice beam (clean 2HKO), and both Keldeo and Magearna get hit very hard by Hydro Pump, considering that neither have any recovery and are slower than Greninja they're rather shaky. Hydro Pump does about 40% to both of those targets, so with a bit of wear (happily by Greninja itself), they're cleanly 2HKO'd. Honestly the best answers are Feerrothorn, Toxapex and Fini, but that's a short list. You're very much overstating how easy it is to deal with Greninja.

 

[njnp]

As funny as this is, tapu koko cant do jack to Blissey. Either way some mons more looking into, cause some only work well on offense teams and others only on stall teams. You should play both to get a better understand of both sides.

+2 252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Electric Terrain: 733-864 (112.4 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Use That Z Mirror Move

 

[Gary]

I'm sorry guys, as much as I'd like to better the thread by keeping certain posters in check, I just don't have the power to do so. It's out of my hands unfortunately, all I can do is mini mod, which doesn't really accomplish much as you can see.

Ranking Update


Rises:

A- ---> A

A- ---> A

B+ ---> A-

C- ---> C

Drops:

A+ ---> A

A ---> A-

A ---> A-

A ---> A-

A- ---> B+

A- ---> B+

B+ ---> B

B+ ---> B

• Gengar is seeing a ton of usage for its ability to spam Shadow Ball so easily in a tier with very little resists and lack of Pursuiters. While it's still one of the best Scarfers in the tier, Specs is also seeing more usage as well as Ghostium Z, which only further limits the amount of Pokemon that can switch into it. It fits well on a wide variety of offensive teams because of its ability to check Pheromosa, which helps out a ton.
• Toxapex is easily one of the best defensive Pokemon in the tier. While it's extremely passive, the amount of Pokemon it walls is unparalleled, and thanks to reliable recovery and Regenerator, it's extremely durable to take on Pokemon such as Greninja, Pheromosa, and Scizor the entire match. Its ability to fit onto a ton of balance teams as well as being a staple on stall, makes it worthy of a rise.
• Mega Scizor has began making a comeback recently with the slight decrease in Tapu Lele usage, consistently high usage of Mega Metagross, Zygarde, and Mosa/Gengar with BP. Its defensive typing is very important for many bulkier builds, and with more teams using less consistent checks to it such as Heatran and Marowak, its SD set is able to find more opportunities to set up and potentially win. It also helps that a lot of the Pokemon on offense can potentially give it free turns to set up, allowing it to sweep late game pretty easily.
• Tapu Koko is struggling because the massive influx in Tangrowth and Ferrothorn, forcing it to forgo its most dependable sets for other ones that give it less usefulness in most match ups. It's still a very potent Pokemon but it finds a lot of issues really doing much to these kinds of builds, and offense has plenty to keep it in check with stuff like Scarf Gengar, Chomp, and Ash Gren.
• Bulu and Fini have both started falling off quite a bit as well. Bulu's only notable set is SD, which still does its job, but struggles to fit onto builds, and being extremely easy to revenge because of its poor Speed and subpar bulk. Tapu Fini has been consistently seeing shitty success in SPL because of how easy it is to overwhelm and pressure, allowing Pokemon such as Ash Gren, Phero, and Keldeo to sweep late game regardless. It's just not as good as it used to be.
• Heatran's Bloom Doom set is no longer as difficult to deal with defensively, offensively it's very easy to pressure, and Dugtrio remaining in the tier still limits its abilities to do anything vs Duggy teams.
• Manaphy and Rotom-W were already discussed quite a bit. Both are losing effectiveness; Manaphy has issues setting up and faces competition from other sweepers/breakers, while Rotom-W took a huge hit from the burn nerf and just isn't nearly as spashable as it used to be.
• Buzzwole is pretty bad at doing what it's intended to do, as most of the Pokemon it's meant to wall have way to beat it.
• Kyurem-B faces massive competition from other breakers and being weak to SR sucks a lot

Discussion Points:

S ---> A+

A+ ---> A

A- ---> A

A- ---> A

A- ---> B+

 

[Colonel M]

Definitely down to upping this mon to A. Yeah sure it's walled by Toxapex, but it does have some methods of getting around it and teammates can help assist that as well. The real great thing about Keldeo is that Scarf is the best Ash-Greninja check in the tier and it can manhandle the 100+ threats. Being faster than ScarfChomp and Scarf Nihilego is pretty nice too since they're used a lot for Speed tier. Best of all Keldeo is a great rain check - very few mons like switching into Scarf Keldeo and only a few Rain sweepers can outspeed it (Swift Swim +2 Omastar).

Really short and to the point, but it's absurdly high win rate in SPL and still being a great Pokemon to use its dual STABs just make it a great mon. It's certainly lost some traction in comparison to ORAS, but really fucking good. Definitely needs to go to A IMO.

I'd love to elaborate more on it, but for now let's just get the ball rolling.

And speaking of balls since I love Water-types, have a Spheal.

 

[Eraxxer]

Stay S
Not much has changed to make me think Greninja deserves to leave S. It's still ridiculous, and we've seen HP Fire and Extrasensory as examples of 'lure' sets (becoming more common now) so that scouting for its moveset becomes even more of an issue than before. It's stupid strong and it alone is a lure as many people have commented on Ash Greninja being more common on the ladder, bating in Fini and the like.

Drop to A
Garchomp is probably best right now for its Scarf set, which is an easy addition for a lot of teams to tie up heaps of loose ends in one Pokemon. Unfortunately, HP Ice on Lando is now basically a staple, Skarm is everywhere, Fini, Bulu and others are around. Scarf causes a lot of 50/50s with move decisions and so the Scarf set doesn't really belong in A+ because it's really limited to being a late game cleaner. The Dragon or Fire Z sets are also limited in similar ways, but are of course a lot slower. It's still potent but not really able to do too much without a lot more team support.

Stay A
Magnezone usage has heavily dropped, Metagross, Gengar, Pheromosa, bulky Lando, Dugtrio usage is way up. The thing is such an unbelievable Pokemon, with the ability to both be a win con sweeper and a wall to so much of the meta in one. Of course, Lele has strayed away from choiced sets which makes Scizor's time a bit harder but even Lele's usage is down.

Rise to A
Aside from the new Breakneck Blitz set that lets Keld break Toxapex, Fini, Venu, Amoonguss and pals, Keldeo's STAB is really coming into its own. There are very few offensive answers to it that can switch in well, and its typing is really handy for some of the major threats in the tier like (Ash) Gren. Here's something a lot of people don't seem to realise:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 184-217 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not to mention Scarf is really good right now.

Stay A-
Bulu is still just as strong as it once was, and still has nice answers to a lot of things that threaten it. I feel likes it's still well and truly a tier above the like of Bisharp, Zapdos and Nihilego.

 

[Ayman]

Greninja should definitely remain S. It's coverage and also bluffing Ash Greninja makes it almost impossible to check without extensive scouting.

I'd also like to propose Celesteela to S. It's defensive set walls the tier but it's offensive set can destroy teams single handedly. Stuff like Magnezone who come in expecting the defensive set can be Fire Blasted into oblivion. It's well rounded stats and variety of sets make it very splashable on teams similar to Lando T.

 

[Mr.Goxel]

I don't really get how Zard-X can be ranked above Gyrados and Salamence. They all basically do the same thing but slightly differently and if anything Salamence and Gyrados do it better. Moxie gives them more staying power while Zard- X has a harder to wall stab. Overall they all seem about the same in viability to me and either Gyrados and Salamence should rise or Zard-X should drop

Edit: I'm trash at spelling Gyarados :(

 

[AM]

That face is not for bulu dropping. That face is the realization that bruce lee had legs, and bulu doesn't.

 

[Spinda]

"An Iron Leg Pokémon. When two Beldum combine, they evolve into Metang. In the same way, Metagross is the result of two Metang combining. It's said to have the intelligence to match a supercomputer. Though it weighs 1,212.5 pounds, it is somehow able to fold up its legs and float."

It's literally called an iron leg pokemon how the fuck u gonna say it doesnt have legs.

I disagree with bulu drop, I'd like to see scizor rise though, atleast until the inevitable mega metagross ban.

I may go more indepth on bulu and scizor later, but likely not.


Edit: Virizain posted that Lando-T, Mega Metagross, Tapu Lele and Celesteela didn't have legs either but then deleted his post so now I look like an idiot