The problem is that if your pokemon poses an offensive presence, they'll attack you rather than setting up on you. No one's going to set up on an Absol that could put a huge dent on your set-up poke.
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Snatch
- Thread starter Emperor
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The problem is that if your pokemon poses an offensive presence, they'll attack you rather than setting up on you. No one's going to set up on an Absol that could put a huge dent on your set-up poke.
No one sets up on Absol? Tell that to bulk up Roobushin/Conkeldurr. If I disliked him enough to do it, slapping psycho cut on Absol to kill him after stealing his bulk up might actually be funny.
Fighting type pokemon in general are going to use Absol as setup fodder. Terakion, Viriuzion, and Infernape for example.
Well, for Absol, I was referring to a UU environment since it doesn't have as much of an offensive presence in OU...
Except Mach Punch says hi.
EDIT: 252 Atk Adamant Conkeldurr does 55.9% - 66.9% to 4HP Absol after a "bulk up". This might actually work if Absol hasn't taken prior damage, though with entry hazards and sandstorm that's a hard thing to say.
I was kind of hasty in the calcs, so I didn't take account into the different EV spread of BU Conkeldurr. Either way, my point still stands that Snatch is highly situational.
I believe the standard or most optimal spread is 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD, Adamant.
Fucking hell you guys look at this realisticaly please
Conk will just Drain Punch or Hammer Arm; it's not like your plan is foolproof if you magically steal a bulk up. Absol is a really shitty pokemon no matter what IMO.
why would a conk kill absol with drain punch when he can so easily set up on him with bulk and kill him next turn with mach punch leaving him with +1/+1?that's the selling point of snatch,that it is very unexpected...not that it is worth it even if it's not you must try to understand the logic behind the strategy...
Why would a conk set up when he can heal off any potential damage with Drain Punch?
Also what happens if it kills Conk? it gets revenged?
Okay both of you. Either situation could happen, but its dependent on the player. Personally I'd set up if I were in that situation as there wouldn't be any obvious drawbacks of not setting up, but I know a lot of people who would rather surprise the opponent and just kill whats in front of em.
are you seriously asking me why when a pokemon sees another one that is commonly setup fodder for it,it doesn't instantly kill it but instead he sets up?it's obvious 'cause he sets up!he ends up having +1,+1 and having lost almost nothing...and your second question is completely irrelevant...i just explaned you why snatch can work on conk nothing more...
Okay, there are three possible outcomes.
1) I switch in Absol on something that's set-up fodder
I use SD as they switch to Conkeldurr (assuming I even have SD). Conkeldurr sees that I'm at +2 and can't risk it and uses Mach Punch, b/c +2 Psycho Cut OHKO's.
2) The opponent switches Conkeldurr in on something that's set-up fodder
They Bulk Up as I switch out to Absol. The opponent wonders why I switched to Absol, assumes it's some revenge killer, and uses Mach Punch for an OHKO. If they don't use Mach Punch adn continue to set up, you can snag a Bulk Up, but now you're both at +1. The next turn, Roobushin uses its boosted Mach Punch and OHKO's.
3) There is a rare double switch in which you bring in Absol and the opponent brings in Conkeldurr at the same time.
The opponent assumes you will switch out, because this is normally a bad match up for you, and decides to Bulk Up. You steal it and get +1 in Atk and Def. The opponent tries to kill you with Mach Punch, but it doesn't OHKO and instead I deal 89.2% - 105.5% to him with my +1 Psycho Cut. Assuming it doesn't OHKO, I can kill him next turn with Sucker Punch before he can Mach Punch me.
Out of those three scenarios, only the third (and rarest one) succeeds. You're not going to be killing Conkeldurr any time soon, and SD Absol is pretty much better all of the time. SD Sucker Punch is great on Absol and is better than any Dragon Dance, Bulk Up, or anything else I can snatch. Sure, I am more open to revenge killing with SD Sucker Punch, but Snatch is unreliable and still can't beat Conkeldurr.
1) I switch in Absol on something that's set-up fodder
I use SD as they switch to Conkeldurr (assuming I even have SD). Conkeldurr sees that I'm at +2 and can't risk it and uses Mach Punch, b/c +2 Psycho Cut OHKO's.
2) The opponent switches Conkeldurr in on something that's set-up fodder
They Bulk Up as I switch out to Absol. The opponent wonders why I switched to Absol, assumes it's some revenge killer, and uses Mach Punch for an OHKO. If they don't use Mach Punch adn continue to set up, you can snag a Bulk Up, but now you're both at +1. The next turn, Roobushin uses its boosted Mach Punch and OHKO's.
3) There is a rare double switch in which you bring in Absol and the opponent brings in Conkeldurr at the same time.
The opponent assumes you will switch out, because this is normally a bad match up for you, and decides to Bulk Up. You steal it and get +1 in Atk and Def. The opponent tries to kill you with Mach Punch, but it doesn't OHKO and instead I deal 89.2% - 105.5% to him with my +1 Psycho Cut. Assuming it doesn't OHKO, I can kill him next turn with Sucker Punch before he can Mach Punch me.
Out of those three scenarios, only the third (and rarest one) succeeds. You're not going to be killing Conkeldurr any time soon, and SD Absol is pretty much better all of the time. SD Sucker Punch is great on Absol and is better than any Dragon Dance, Bulk Up, or anything else I can snatch. Sure, I am more open to revenge killing with SD Sucker Punch, but Snatch is unreliable and still can't beat Conkeldurr.
How does that work, though? Does the opponent use its own health and you get the sub, or does it involve you losing your own?
Snatch is a pretty awesome move, but from what I can see the only reason it's not more used is due to its distribution - either the pokemon aren't OU viable or they need that moveset for something else.
Snatch can be used on Chansey. For awesomeness.
Aside from the obvious fact that no one is going to legitimately use an Absol in a competitive OU game for obvious reasons, Drain Punch is an OHKO. How exactly would you even consider not using Drain Punch in this match up? I would take the chance against the Psycho Cut crit any day.
Would you really consider setting up on a pokemon with 130 base attack when you can OHKO it 100% of the time instead?
Would you really consider setting up on a pokemon with 130 base attack when you can OHKO it 100% of the time instead?
No, snatch basically makes your opponent do nothing and you use their move.
Essentially you would use your own HP.
In 4th gen I had a Honchkrow that had Snatch, Thunderwave, Sucker Punch and Drill Peck. I fought a Gyarados, stopped it from setting up, and KO'd it.
1st turn: he switched in Gyarados, it took an intimidated Drill Peck
2nd turn: it used Dragon Dance, I snatched it
3rd turn: it used Taunt, I t-waved it
4th turn: I Drill Pecked. It Dragon Danced.
5th turn: I Sucker Punched, and KOd it.
A prime example of how epic Snatch is.
1st turn: he switched in Gyarados, it took an intimidated Drill Peck
2nd turn: it used Dragon Dance, I snatched it
3rd turn: it used Taunt, I t-waved it
4th turn: I Drill Pecked. It Dragon Danced.
5th turn: I Sucker Punched, and KOd it.
A prime example of how epic Snatch is.
Those're some nice mindgames, but I suspect this is reversed or Taunt glitched (unlikely). Did you Twave before the Taunt?
If I was the Gyarados, I probably would've opted to Stone Edge or Waterfall Krow to death instead of Taunting. Snatch can be such a great move... but it's a big risk.
You are all using it completely wrong.
Dont try and sweep with snatch, use it on pokes like bissey and reuninclus as a psuedo-taunt/utility (snatching sub is great).
it has much more defensive utility than offensive imo as it turns set up fodder into magic.
Volc doesn't beat bliss anymore, etc.
Dont try and sweep with snatch, use it on pokes like bissey and reuninclus as a psuedo-taunt/utility (snatching sub is great).
it has much more defensive utility than offensive imo as it turns set up fodder into magic.
Volc doesn't beat bliss anymore, etc.
Deoxys-D is the best user of the move because very few pokemon without Choice Band/Specs have the power to even 2 hit ko and also forces them to reveal if they are banded since they'll do over half. On the other hand, you can Snatch Dragon Dances from Dragonite/Haxorus/Salamence and then outspeed them with Toxic. Without Band, Outrage doesn't 2 hit ko and you can Recover spam and if they're banded, you switch to an appropiate steel (Skarmory/Bronzong/Nattorei) and set up on them. You can steal Volcarona's Quiver Dance and if it's a defensive variation, it actually can't 2 hit ko with Bug Buzz (without sdef drop). You'll force it into a switch or an attack in which case you can send in your Volcarona counter. The only things that'll even beat a Snatch/Recover/Magic Coat/Toxic set are steels (especially those named Scizor or Escavilier), Gengar, Volcarona (potentially), Zoroark, and anything that does over half at low health (banded/specs attacks) and if Choice Band Haxorus criticals you (otherwise it's 2 hit ko)with Outrage for example. Otherwise, very little can actually do anything to Deoxys and it gets worse with Toxic and hazard lying about.
Most people will set up on Absol, as Absol's big selling point is his super-powerful Sucker Punch, which will do nothing if you set up.
In my opinion, Zoruark actually seems to be the best offensive user of this move- especially when you consider that the physical set typically runs Flamethrower, allowing you to also use any special boosts you grab. Defensive use is a cool idea that I would like to try, though.
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