I'm not exactly sure what uncompetitive matchups/strategies Finch is referring to, so I won't touch on that, but I do agree with SS games feeling too repetitive at times. I think that at times it is just too difficult to make progress in games and games can be long and drawn-out with certain cycles repeating over and over again. I feel like this repetitive nature of SS OU was exemplified in
this recent match between TPP and Lord_Enz in OST semifinals. Neither of these teams are stall, and in fact they each have some of the best breaking options in the tier in Tapu Lele, Heatran, and Kyurem, but still neither team loses a Pokemon until turn 181. I want to say that I don't think that it's inherently a bad thing that SS is a different meta in that its games tend to be slower and more deliberate, since it's good to have variety in the tiers, and although I tend to enjoy longer games, I've personally found myself becoming increasingly disinterested in SS. I tend to skip over watching most of the SS games from SPL and I don't play the tier much anymore, and I know that's become true for many other players as well. I think that some of the main reasons why it can be so hard to make progress in SS games is because of the diminished importance of hazards, the prevalence of Regenerator, and how easy/risk free positioning is with Teleport. I know that this thread can be very zealous to jump at the chance to take tiering action against aspects of the tier as a way to try to "fix" SS OU, but I don't really think that anything should or will ever be done to touch those three things. I could perhaps see a suspect test on Boots being warranted, but again, I'm fairly certain that that will never happen. So please don't take it that I'm suggesting that anything is really done about Boots, Regenerator, or Teleport, as they really are a big part of what makes SS unique, but I do want to discuss a little more how I feel like those three parts of the tier in conjunction make SS feel more repetitive to me. I know I've
talked about these three things before, but I'm planning on stopping playing and posting much going forward, so I wanted to try to clearly get my thoughts about this out there one more time. I also apologize if this comes across as me just rambling and ranting about a tier, and I don't think that this post will be received too well, since most people who browse this thread probably do so because they enjoy the tier, but I just wanted to express my personal feelings about some frustrating parts of SS.
I sometimes see people erroneously claim that Boots are a good thing because they "fix" the overcentralizing nature of Rocks and use RBY as an example of a lack of hazards not necessarily leading to free switching. I think that both of these arguments are a little misguided. First, it's perfectly fine to think that Boots were a good decision because they make Rock-weak Pokemon more viable, and it's also reasonable to wish that Rocks were never introduced in DPP, but it's disingenuous to act like that's all that Boots do. Many of the biggest abusers of Boots in things like Slowking, Slowbro, Blissey, Zeraora, and Dragapult are not weak to Rocks and it's not like all Boots do is remove Stealth Rocks damage; they negate the impact of all hazards. Not having a consistent source of chip on Pokemon that switch into play can lead to instances where little or no progress is made against teams with solid defensive cores that switch into many threats, and it also prevents players from doing things like making double-switches to repeatedly rack up more chip damage against opposing Pokemon without allowing them an opportunity to heal. I feel like Boots simply removed a lot of the nuance from the game by making it irrelevant to some Pokemon if hazards are up or not. I also think that any comparison between SS and RBY is largely irrelevant, since they are obviously completely different games. Things like abilities (particularly Regenerator) did not exist in RBY, there wasn't as varied of a selection of Pokemon to use, and the crit, freeze, and sleep mechanics, along with some other mechanics, make RBY an extremely different game, and I think it's pointless to draw any comparisons to it. I also want to mention that it's not just Boots that limit the impact of hazards, but also how hazard removal is as easy as it's ever been, thanks in large part to Corviknight. I feel like Corviknight is easily one of the best, if not the best, Defoggers we've ever seen, and it keeps hazards off so reliably that they become an even smaller factor in some games (like the OST one that I linked to earlier).
Regenerator has always been a tremendous ability, but when combined with Boots, it allows Pokemon like Slowking/Slowbro and Tornadus-T to become even more difficult to make progress against. Obviously Toxapex is one of the premier Regenerator users, and Pex is and will always be great, but at least most Pex don't run Boots and can be vulnerable to hazards stacking. It sometimes feels very aggravating just trying to punish or wear down something like Torn or Slowking because they're able to freely come in regardless of how many hazards are up and pivot out to both gain momentum and regain health with Regenerator. In previous gens, hazards stacking was a reliable method to limit Regenerator's effectiveness, but that doesn't reliably work anymore. The pivoting capabilities of defensive Pokemon like Slowking brings me to the third thing that I feel like makes progress difficult to come by in SS, and that's Teleport.
Teleport has been widely discussed in SS since the days when Wish + Teleport Clef was on almost every team. I don't think that Teleport in itself is a problem, but again, when combined with Boots and/or Regenerator, it can make the pivoting of some defensive Pokemon like Slowking and Blissey feel too "free." I've heard some top players refer to SS as the "training wheels" generation and bemoan how easy it is to play. A competitive game being "easy" is always a little bit of a strange concept to me, since if it's easy for one player, it should be easy for their opponent as well, and then it's a level playing field. However, I feel like what is meant by SS being easy is that there are a lot of risk-free ways to position your Pokemon and make the "correct" plays. I already talked about how things like Boots and Regenerator can make switching in Pokemon risk-free, but defensive Pokemon getting guaranteed momentum with Teleport gives SS the easiest example of positioning of any Pokemon game. Things like Slowking/Slowbro and Blissey can switch into many Pokemon, not fear Rocks damage with Boots, regain health with Regenerator or ignore status with Natural Cure, and automatically make the correct switch-in after clicking Teleport. There really isn't any risk or difficult decision to be made by the player in instances like this. Even if the opponent doesn't attack into the Slowbro/Slowking or Blissey directly and opts to make a double-switch, it's not like Slowbro/Slowking or Blissey gets chipped by hazards when switching in, thanks to Boots. This leads to awkward scenarios where in order to force progress, players need to put themselves more at risk to make double-switches, and even then, if the opponent has a sturdy enough defensive core to answer what they double-switched into, they can just switch again without much repercussion. I'm not saying that it's impossible to make progress against defensive cores in SS, but I do feel at times that the risk-reward doesn't feel properly balanced when trying to make offensive progress.
I don't want to get sidetracked here by comparing SS to SM, so I won't spend much time on this, but I did hear ABR say during one of McMeghan's streams about how SS being so defensive is what happens when you remove Z-moves. I used to previously really dislike Z-moves, and I still have my problems with them, but I've grown to appreciate more how they can be used to force offensive progress by blowing holes in opposing teams. With that option being removed from SS, but many of the other strong defensive tools remaining (and some new ones being introduced), it does make sense how it could have added to SS becoming a slower and more defensive game.
In regards to potential retests, I do think that it's a good idea to test things and I don't think that suspect tests can ever really hurt a tier. I
said before Cinderace was quick-banned that removing it from the tier could be detrimental, and I do think that testing it again could be a good thing to see how much of a difference Cinderace's inclusion in the tier makes on generating offensive progress, but the combination of things like Boots, Regenerator, and Teleport are still going to be prevalent and give SS its defensive qualities that have become somewhat defining of the tier at this point. However, as I said in the beginning of this post, these defensive qualities playing a huge role in SS is not really a bad thing. It's good for SS to have a unique feel to it, and it's kind of ironic that I'm lamenting the defensive nature of SS since I've also been annoyed before by how many people on Smogon are irrationally prejudiced against stall, but I think that stall isn't the problem in SS. That OST replay that I linked in the beginning didn't include stall teams, and it still exhibited the lack of offensive progress that I've talked about. I feel like often times, some Smogon users don't understand stall and just label anything remotely defensive as "stall," but I feel like the defining defensive attributes of SS are present in the vast majority of games in the tier, not just stall matchups.
So to conclude this, I'm sorry if this post just came across as me rambling or complaining about SS; I didn't intend to pointlessly do so. Instead, I wanted to share my personal perspective on why I've become more disillusioned with the tier. I don't think that the tier is in a bad spot and I agree with Finch's assessment of it being "good, but not great." It's good for SS to have a unique feeling to it and I don't feel like drastic tiering action should be considered to try to "fix" SS. I just wanted to get some thoughts out there one more time in a hopefully more complete manner, since I'm planning on not being too active going forward. I also understand that I'm just some guy and that my thoughts on the meta aren't particularly important, but I thought that I might be able to share sentiments that other people are also feeling or offer a different perspective that some people may not be as familiar with. Thanks to anyone who looked this over, and have a great day everyone!
with Superpower + Flash Cannon + Draco Meteor + Roost is an underrated lure when paired with Choice Specs Dragapult or Kyurem. Being able to do a great deal to Clefable, Blissey, Heatran, and Tyranitar all in one set while still having recovery is fun. Rather than a one-at-a-time, clunkier sweeper, Hydreigon functions as a mixed wallbreaker
