I'm not going to comment on the "OU material" sentence, but seriously, if there's a problem that Garchomp doesn't have is the Moveslot Syndrome. With a set of swords dance, dragon claw\outrage, earthquake and fire fang Garchomp can hit every Pokemon in the game for, at least, neutral damage, not to mention that the only two Pokemon that resist its STAB combo are Skarmory and Bronzong, and both of them are hit for SE damage by fire fang.Garchomp Thoughts - Top three OU material for sure, if not top one. However, I don't find it it particularly overpowering. The real trouble with it is prediction - once you know what set it has, it isn't that hard to take down, because it suffers from Four Moveslot Syndrome.
I agree with the majority of your points. I am Garchomp is ridiculously hard to switch in against, because a simple mispredict allows Garchomp to do insane amounts of damage behind its considerable Attack stat and dual STAB.Garchomp is an extremely difficult pokemon to switch in against. In fact there is not a single commonly used (say top 20) pokemon that can switch in against the standard SD yachechomp with any confidence. Nothing can come in on both dragon claw and SD and force out Garchomp without being maimed in the process even one time with SR up. Salamence is also impossible to check but it is much harder to keep alive for obvious reasons. No other pokemon (not lucario,gyarados, tyranitar, latias etc) is that hard to stop.
Swords Dance Garchomp is certainly dangerous, as if you do predict correctly to gain a more favourable matchup, Garchomp often has enough bulk to survive a hit and KO your switch in anyway. I just wanted to highlight your post because you said about the Haban / Yache Berry guessing game. I completely agree with you, common "checks" to Garchomp are often being taken down first due to the player being unfortunate. 20.5% of Garchomp held Haban Berry in October, and 12.9% held Yache Berry (and for reference, 12.3% ran Salac Berry). Checks such as Draco Meteor Latias or Ice Shard Mamoswine are going to have a much harder time when they hit a Berry, especially as both are quite common on the Swords Dancer, so it becomes a bit of a guessing game. I can't help but feel this is the exact reason people are running multiple checks to Garchomp. Add in Salac Berry and suddenly you might need another check... Suddenly you have a team with tons of Garchomp checks, and when you see Garchomp you have to use one hoping you are lucking against Garchomp's held item.I find the real killer to be the Swords Dance set. The real trouble is the two varieties of Berry Chomp can carry. Yache variants get taken down by Latias with a fair amount of ease, and I've seen a few surprise ScarfMence take down my Garchomp (even if they don't take it down, it's damn hard to switch something in to a ScarfMence Draco Meteor without said something taking a hard hit), and Haban variants to whichever Pokemon you have that is fast and possesses an Ice-type move. However, if you guess incorrectly, you'll often lose around 2 more Pokemon than you would if you guessed correctly, which is certainly a match definer.
Yeah, I realise that was a stupid thing to say now, I hadn't checked my post. What I meant to say was One Itemslot Syndrome. What I mean is, he can't run all his sets at once, and that is thing that, in my view, prevents him from being Uber. 99% of the time the reason a Pokemon can't run all of its sets is due to moveslot limitations, so I said 4MS out of habit, but with Garchomp I guess it is 1IS.I'm not going to comment on the "OU material" sentence, but seriously, if there's a problem that Garchomp doesn't have is the Moveslot Syndrome. With a set of swords dance, dragon claw\outrage, earthquake and fire fang Garchomp can hit every Pokemon in the game for, at least, neutral damage, not to mention that the only two Pokemon that resist its STAB combo are Skarmory and Bronzong, and both of them are hit for SE damage by fire fang.
I completely agree with you on this. While it may be a guessing game at first, obviously, Garchomp cannot hold every single viable item listed. I also felt that when Garchomp was first made Uber a number of the arguments seemed to say that Garchomp could be holding Yache and Life Orb at the same time. By this I mean that someone would say "with Life Orb Garchomp can do X amount of damage and then live an Ice Shard thanks to Yache Berry". I know this sounds stupid, but I actually saw this and saw people agreeing.Yeah, I realise that was a stupid thing to say now, I hadn't checked my post. What I meant to say was One Itemslot Syndrome. What I mean is, he can't run all his sets at once, and that is thing that, in my view, prevents him from being Uber. 99% of the time the reason a Pokemon can't run all of its sets is due to moveslot limitations, so I said 4MS out of habit, but with Garchomp I guess it is 1IS.
What? It's an incredibly superior CroCune. The only disadvantage is a slight loss in bulk but Rain Dance over Suicune's Sleep Talk gives it a much more formidable recovery and lets it hit way harder.Manaphy has truely disapointted me, I find it hard to use one in a team, it requires so much support, and without rain or rest-talk, it gets worn down so easily. The CM version is an inferior CroCune...
Specs Latias problem solved loooooooooooooooolI find the real killer to be the Swords Dance set. The real trouble is the two varieties of Berry Chomp can carry. Yache variants get taken down by Latias with a fair amount of ease, and I've seen a few surprise ScarfMence take down my Garchomp, and Haban variants to whichever Pokemon you have that is fast and possesses an Ice-type move.
Skarmory doesn't do much directly to Garchomp but its Spikes can wear Garchomp down as quickly as SR does to its good friend, Salamence. It barely takes 50% from an SD Fire Fang or standard Fire Blast (min-SpA, no item boost), which it can probably Roost off later, and it can pseudohaze to stuff SubChomp and rack up Spikes damage on it. It's kinda like how Skarmory dealt with Curselax in GSC - it walled Snorlax until you could do something to actually kill it in late-game. Even min-Atk Skarmory deals 34% damage to min/min Garchomp with Brave Bird, though, so it actually deals acceptable damage if it has to attack directly for some reason.Oh and I don't see skarm or bronzong that great against garchomp as they an't...relaly do anything to it (to scarf even well...bronzong is freaking annoying though but skarm can only whirwind it away).
Garchomp is faster than Roserade, and not to mention it is bulky enough to survive probably one Leaf Storm anywayRoserade has a pretty high SpA, a STAB that hits Garchomp neutral, and can learn a Draco Meteor-esque move in said typing. It's just a generic "faster than Garchomp" check, like Gengar.
I thought Garchomp was so unstoppable that it could just switch into whatever the hell it wants, dodge everything with Sand Veil, mitigate every super-effective attack with the correct resist berry and sweep every single time?besides it is very dangerous to pull out sdgarchomp before you get rid of its checks anyways.
Even Uber can´t run all sets at once, does that make them less uber?What I meant to say was One Itemslot Syndrome. What I mean is, he can't run all his sets at once, and that is thing that, in my view, prevents him from being Uber. 99% of the time the reason a Pokemon can't run all of its sets is due to moveslot limitations, so I said 4MS out of habit, but with Garchomp I guess it is 1IS.
Well, once again, the moveset problem seems non-exsistent to me. Assuming that you're using it as a sweeper (rather than as a revenge killer) the best set it can run, without being walled by levitating steel types is: SD\fire fang\dragon claw\EQ. If anything, the problem may be the choice between yache and haban berry.Yeah, I realise that was a stupid thing to say now, I hadn't checked my post. What I meant to say was One Itemslot Syndrome. What I mean is, he can't run all his sets at once, and that is thing that, in my view, prevents him from being Uber. 99% of the time the reason a Pokemon can't run all of its sets is due to moveslot limitations, so I said 4MS out of habit, but with Garchomp I guess it is 1IS.
Sadly no, the standard sassy Bronzong takes:Bronzong can do pretty high damage with its Gyro Ball, which gets the max 150 BP against Garchomp with the proper spread. It can also use Reflect and/or trade with Explosion if necessary. It doesn't do anything special but neither does Garchomp back to it.
So... awkward silence. This vote must be coming up soon. Anybody have any ideas as to when?
This sentence is quite confusing, because the ability to counter a pokemon is the most common argument to draw a line between ubers and ous.I'm noticing a huge pattern and I'd like all of you to keep these points in mind when discussing.
- Even actual ubers can be "countered" or "dealt with". There are also non ubers who are difficult to counter. This does not mean that the Pokemon is actually uber.
The most common argument to draw the line between OU and Uber should be using the Uber Characteristics, not "counterability." In this sense, 2HKO'ing every pokemon in the game could be used as evidence that the pokemon fulfills the Offensive Characteristic.the ability to counter a pokemon is the most common argument to draw a line between ubers and ous.
Also there is a huge difference between difficult to counter and can 2hko everything in the current metagame.
There's nothing confusing about that statement. Simply put, the ability to "counter" a pokémon (by current definition) doesn't mean jack shit. Even with Garchomp gone, there are "uncounterable" pokémon still in OU, especially under the asinine, yet all-too-common, assumption that it carries everything in its movepool, uses all its viable items at the same time, and predicts the opponent flawlessly. Of course, even without that assumption, the only refutation for Salamence being as good as Garchomp I continue to hear goes something like, "it counters itself with residual damage olol"This sentence is quite confusing, because the ability to counter a pokemon is the most common argument to draw a line between ubers and ous.
If you can 2HKO everything, then theoretically everything can die on the switch-in plus the second hit. Maybe a faster pokémon can take one hit and OHKO in return, making it a "counter" by strict definition (though very limited, as it can only switch in one time), but there's not much difference between those two traits for the most part.Also there is a huge difference between difficult to counter and can 2hko everything in the current metagame.