As someone that has been on the internet for over 15 years, that isn't happening. Everything everywhere is on fire always. Especially in a game like Pokemon where you have thousands of people who have very different thoughts about how things should be done. Pokemon is an INSANELY complex game with astronomical combinatorics between team compositions, item usage, and move sets. To say nothing of the complications tera adds to those equations.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
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As someone that has been on the internet for over 15 years, that isn't happening. Everything everywhere is on fire always. Especially in a game like Pokemon where you have thousands of people who have very different thoughts about how things should be done. Pokemon is an INSANELY complex game with astronomical combinatorics between team compositions, item usage, and move sets. To say nothing of the complications tera adds to those equations.
I'm genuinely not seeing the problem here. You predict the Ghold coming in, and Ghold gets chunked. You mispredict the Ghold staying in, so Waterpon takes ~35% and forces you out. You turned your clean Great Tusk entrance into solid chip on two members of the enemy's team and removed Ghold's leftovers, that's solid progress. Now the opponent gets to make some progress of their own.
You know else is fun? If you came in safely on Ghold, Waterpon needs to terastalize to kill Great Tusk, so you can try predicting a Swords Dance or immediate attack without tera, and if you guess right, Fighting STAB kills Waterpon while Rapid Spin means you'll outspeed next turn. If you have a dangerous water type in the back, that's not even an unreasonable possibility, Waterpon might want to keep Water Absorb.
Tera-Ghost defensive Ghold does indeed wall Great Tusk, though, so the niche pick gets rewarded.
Or the Waterpon could click power whip for a 70% chance to OHKO offensive tusk. Or instead of going into Waterpon, the opponent goes into offensive Zapdos that threatens your Tusk with Hurricane... etc etc
But that's beside my point. I'm saying that for all of the "progress" that you've made, you still haven't removed the three layers of spikes on your side while Ghold remains alive. As far as progress goes your opponent still comes out on top. We were talking about Tusk as a remover that threatens Ghold. But in the realistic flow of the gameplay, Ghold's presence does suppress Tusk's ability to clear hazards effectively.
Spinblockers are nothing new, but for the first time Ghold blocks both spin and defog while also featuring good bulk, recover, and access to tera, all in the slot of a single mon. This makes it the most spashable tool on hazard stack teams and contributes to their dominance in this meta.
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English is a Germanic language with heavy Romantic and Gaelic influences (among others, I would not be surprised if there are some Slavic influences as well), I for one welcome this cultured vocabulary from the Far EastEnglish wasn't meant to construct these sentences man
Iron Treads and Talonflame becoming more viable when a Steel type is gone is some backwards ass logic right there.
Have you considered that those Pokemon aren’t actually good hazard removers or aren’t great in general meta? Don’t you think that it’s silly to say Corviknight (Pokemon with no means to threaten Gholdengo) being OU and Talonflame (Pokemon that can 2HKO Gholdengo without investment) being UU is due to Gholdengo?
the "gliscor-ban side" includes the council leader
Zapdos threatens the Static para on it, which at the very least works as a deterrent for Ogerpon, and if it actually gets paralized you can kill it with Hurricane or let another mon do the work after switching out with U-turn/Volt Switch. Clef survives 2 hits, it can Thunder Wave it and potentially even recover back its health with Moonlight/Wish. Rillaboom definitely threatens it with Grassy Glide, which easily 2HKOs it, and the presence of Knock Off is not guaranteed in its moveset (some Ogerpon run Trailblaze, some other Encore, Synthesis, Spikes, and a few run Play Rough). In a similar way, not all Ogerpon have Play Rough in their moveset, so Dragon types can absolutely be used as a check to it (the main reason Play Rough was used in the first place was because of Roaring Moon, which was often switched in to potentially start setting up with DD). And how is Corvi the only mon that can check Ogerpon? You really think Amoonguss, Zamazenta or Pex cannot be used as checks? Again, if it was broken you'd be seeing Sap Sipper Azumarill sets running all over the place, since we have a precedent of this mon being used as a potentiall wall for stupidly broken mons.
A reminder that ivy cudgel is not a contact move, and as such Ogerpon can spam it freely on Zapdos.
also, a reminder that rng fishing is not counterplay and "switch in zapdos and pray" shouldn't be brought up as a way to deal with anything. like any rng-based strategy, it will invariably fail when you most need it to succeed
The problem here is Great Tusk's job is to clear hazards. I dont think getting chip is as worthwhile for the player as keeping up hazards is for the opponent in this case. Keeping up hazards and going waterpon allows in a lot of cases for the waterpon player to just start clicking buttons and getting kills assisted by spikes. This is present by the large amount of breakers and sweepers in OU just getting up spikes and attempting to shell out damage as much as possible. It requires, in this circumstance, perfect Great Tusk prediction in being able to not only guess the Gholdengo is switching in, but also guess whether or not it will stay in to simply remove hazards once! This is way too much to deal with considering Great Tusk is literally one of the best forms of hazard removal in the tier. In a gholdless meta, I would simply go corv on one of the pokemon that it answers and click defog and get 100% gauranteed spike removal. Swap corv with any other defogger.
This Ogerpon not KOing Tusk requires the Tusk to not have been chipped at any point prior to this, which is very possible since that thing has no recovery and doesnt always run boots. and also requires the Tusk to be running CC which it doesnt always run or want to run due to needing rapid/ice spin. Like you said at the end of the day Ogerpon can also just tera to shut it down making the stay-in Tusk play a pretty all around bad play. But not to single out ogerpon, this can apply to many other pokemon that can outspeed and threaten Tusk. There are many ways to shut down that mon and prevent a spin from the mon that "isnt being blocked by ghold".
+ Tera Fairy also walls Tusk while allowing it to get a big hit off on Tusk with Make it rain/Dazzling gleam and kill it before it has the chance to spin. Fairy is probably the most common tera for Ghold too so not really niche there.
This is a great point and I agree that from my time laddering, Tera Fairy Ghold is one of the most common sets nowadays.
12 SpA Tera Fairy Gholdengo Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 372-438 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Only minuscule special investment is necessary to OHKO the standard offensive Tusk set with STAB Dazzling Gleam. Your opponent loses their spinner without removing any hazards, which is a massive setback that more often than not will decide the fate of the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1978885076-wkrct27vnyfodwwsyuzyfqezuxv5o49pw
what did I do to deserve a game this heinous?
what did I do to deserve a game this heinous?
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Speaking of which, when is action going to be taken on Tera Blast? Pretty much everyone I've talked to feels this move is a problem on multiple Pokemon like Kingambit. Multiple council members I've talked to also agree the move is a problem, yet it doesn't seem like action on the move is a priority currently. It seems as though the earliest time that action on Tera Blast will be taken is DLC2 whenever we do a Tera retest, which imo is a bit too long of a wait. I am hoping the council looks to take action sooner on Tera Blast, whether it be through a suspect or council vote.
If Tera Blast were banned, Volcarona would not be an issue and could safely be reintroduced to the meta with no downsides. If anything, it would have a positive effect on the meta by reeling in the Tera types Pokemon such as Kingambit can run to include something like Tera Fire over more traditional options.
never. it's going to be an option on the tera retest at best and it won't be the one that wins. i feel like almost everyone's opinion has crystallized into "full ban" or "no restriction" at this point, so i wouldn't be surprised if the suspect just gives us a binary choice
I dont really think tera blast is an issue personally. It kinda cripples a move slot on your team in a lot of cases unless you commit to tera-ing that pokemon in most games which is kind of a lot unless that pokemon is blatantly broken with it. If there is any pokemon that is broken with tera blast, they are probably also pretty overwhelming/matchup-fishy like volcarona and I dont really want to keep around regardless of tera ban. Tera blast on the other hand is one side of tera that I do strongly like since it does allow you to patch up issues with lower tier niche picks allowing them to be run more easily. Youtubers rejoice in being able to put "Leafeon sweeps in OU" in their titles. That and thats one aspect of tera that actually has diminishing returns on the strongest ou pokemon since they already have bad 4MSS a lot of the time.
Speaking of tera and restrictions, what would we think about restricting tera to a single potential user each game? I've seen some call for a total tera ban, but I do find myself not wanting to ban it from the amount of fun I have in the builder being able to pull together really interesting niche sets.
On top of that one of my bigger issues with tera is that you can choose the best tera in some games on the fly based on whatever match up you have. If you see your opponent has not good offensive water answer, you can feel pretty confident in tera-ing your gliscor into a water type. And if they do have something good against waters you can just choose to not tera it. Its not only like having gliscor but also like having a gliscor thats also a toxapex if its more favorable in a matchup.
Limiting it to one tera forces the user to commit way harder to one tera which may put them in unfavorable matchups more often that in the current game. This way would also still allow me to keep cooking super hard in the teambuilder which is imo the funnest part of tera.
On top of that one of my bigger issues with tera is that you can choose the best tera in some games on the fly based on whatever match up you have. If you see your opponent has not good offensive water answer, you can feel pretty confident in tera-ing your gliscor into a water type. And if they do have something good against waters you can just choose to not tera it. Its not only like having gliscor but also like having a gliscor thats also a toxapex if its more favorable in a matchup.
Limiting it to one tera forces the user to commit way harder to one tera which may put them in unfavorable matchups more often that in the current game. This way would also still allow me to keep cooking super hard in the teambuilder which is imo the funnest part of tera.
This was an option on the Tera suspect and was seen as widely unpopular, behind Tera Preview and a full Tera Ban
That was already discussed, and its more trouble than its worth.
Personally I would like to see tera suspected on a tier by tier basis, since at the lower powerlevels like NU and PU tera is a lot easier to deal with, but in higher power environments like OU and Ubers its definitely really busted and probably shouldn't be here.
Anyway, we are 3 days away from tier shifts! I predict we get
and maybe 
I predict UU gets
and possibly 
i'm gonna be bold and predict drops for blissey and rockpon as well as lando-t and pex, but not hattereneAnyway, we are 3 days away from tier shifts! I predict we get
I predict UU gets
as for rises, i think all of those are correct, plus potentially maushold
If Maushold rises, I will put together my list of fun calcs for Maushold on an Aurora Veil team.
I'm gonna be bolder: I think Ting Lu drops. I haven't seen it like at all this month. As far as I know, it hasn't been used in Tour, but I haven't watched every single gameAnyway, we are 3 days away from tier shifts! I predict we get
I predict UU gets
Half the people on this forum changing their opinions anytime finchinator makes a post:
Despite Roaring moon countering gholdengo for the last month, ghold has still been taking up most of the discussion. Let's wait a week and see what happens now that moon is gone... if gambit was banned in the suspect gholdengo would be number 1 in usage. Broken checks broken I guess.
Despite Roaring moon countering gholdengo for the last month, ghold has still been taking up most of the discussion. Let's wait a week and see what happens now that moon is gone... if gambit was banned in the suspect gholdengo would be number 1 in usage. Broken checks broken I guess.
my opinion's been stable since i was sold on ghold: i believe that the best move would be an immediate simultaneous quickban of ghold, gliscor and gambit, but i know that won't happen because there's no justice in this hellscape we call life, and of those three i believe gliscor is the biggest problem right now
rockpon’s been seeing usage on those goofy goober terrain teams with rillaboom, sneasler, and armarouge, so i think it’ll just make the cutoff.
Care to explain why (maybe you already did 100 times in some previous posts, but I didn't get the chance to read them)? I disagree with both you and Finch in this regard, since I'm actually leaning more towards the "ban Dengo" side. In my opinion hazards have always been a problem in this meta, and even without Gliscor we still have plenty of hazard setters that can abuse the presence of Gholdengo, like Samurott-H, Glimmora, Ting-Lu and all of the other Sash leads (Treads, Ribombee etc.). I agree that Gliscor is stupidly broken and annoying, but I think it's so prevalent because of Gholdengo, not the opposite. People have been calling out Gholdengo since day 1, and if it wasn't for its ability (but also for some other reasons, like its typing and its versatility during teambuilding) we'd be seeing plenty more mons that can remove hazards, Corviknight primarily. Speaking of the latter, Corvi would also be an amazing answer to Gliscor with the Iron Defense or Bulk Up sets, and it could be one more check to Kingambit in this meta. So I'd propose to ban Gholdengo first, and then we see if hazards are still a problem.
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