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The Everything NFL Thread - 2009

ck is being stupid here, just because a qb had a bad season does not mean that a game they did well in is irrelevant or "not exciting". that is pretty awful logic.
 
I am judging you because you insist on a game with the third worst quarterback in football throwing 20 for 35 is in contention for the game of the year. You just do not get anything. Just because he had some lucky circumstances.

Last three touchdown drives for Cutler, starting positions: Minnesota 30, Minnesota 21, Minnesota 39 (their third god damn possession in overtime).Well gee fucking whiz, maybe you might be blowing smoke out of your ass! It is a game where sloppy Vikings special teams and their mistakes ruled the day (abysmal punting - 34.5 yards average, long of 43...I guess the cold could be argued, since the Bears punter would be used to it, the Vikings' punter would not be). Yes, the Bears had some nice returns, but it was more about the Vikings' inadequacies in punting. No, Cutler taking the Bears on touchdown marches of 30, 21, and 39 yards in the second half and overtime is not impressive.

Do you want to continue pretending to be indignant and smart or can you understand the facts I just pointed out prove this was not in contention for game of the week, let alone game of the year?
 
First of all, ty Loki. What the fuck is up with Smogon? I can't even state my opinion without getting my ass yelled at. Remind me why I stopped playing Pokemon in the first place.

Yes, Cutler had some good starting positions, I remember. But hey the point is that HE GOT THOSE TOUCHDOWNS. Jay Cutler made Minnesota pay by giving him those field positions. Fuck if Jay Cutler really fucked up, he woulda been a piece of shiet and the team woulda lost by settling all FGs.

What the fuck is your problem CaptKirby?

Edit: This just hit me.. Why does stats even matter if the game was good or not? The point of that game is that it was good (at least to me) because there was enough drama and comebacks that kept the game worth to watch. Hell, CaptKirby, you should just respect my opinion that I think it was a good game. Just because you didn't enjoy the game and I did, you assume that I am a dumbass? What the fuck is the point of trying to argue with me?
 
I just told you what my problem is. You are acting indignant and smart when you are literally producing zero salient points to prove me wrong. The second problem is that you are arguing I overlooked this for GAME OF THE FUCKING YEAR CONVERSATION. A sloppy team in which a punter who could not handle the cold punted 34.5 yards average, with only one average punt, a 43 yarder in overtime (at least he came through when it mattered, I guess!). Arguing that Jay Cutler made Minnesota pay is farcical - it is really easy to make the opponent pay when they keep punting 35 yards. I mean, are you just conveniently ignoring that they had to go for fgs a lot, four different times (amongst everything else you are ignoring)? It was a sloppy game in which the Bears won because of an extra point fuckup by the Vikings. It was not the best game that week, but even if it were, it would not be in conversation for game of the year (most of the games the last two weeks were bad - injuries, cold, et cetera).
 
CaptKirby said:
I just told you what my problem is. You are acting indignant and smart when you are literally producing zero salient points to prove me wrong. The second problem is that you are arguing I overlooked this for GAME OF THE FUCKING YEAR CONVERSATION. A sloppy team in which a punter who could not handle the cold punted 34.5 yards average, with only one average punt, a 43 yarder in overtime (at least he came through when it mattered, I guess!). Arguing that Jay Cutler made Minnesota pay is farcical - it is really easy to make the opponent pay when they keep punting 35 yards. I mean, are you just conveniently ignoring that they had to go for fgs a lot, four different times (amongst everything else you are ignoring)? It was a sloppy game in which the Bears won because of an extra point fuckup by the Vikings. It was not the best game that week, but even if it were, it would not be in conversation for game of the year (most of the games the last two weeks were bad - injuries, cold, et cetera).
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Well aren't you trying to be smart when you can't prove me that I am wrong? So it all matters what you say that is right, not mine? How selfish! I can't have my own views? I am not trying to take yours away. Everyone has their own opinion of a "good game." Sure you can argue with a person that it wasn't, but if you are trying to attack my character by saying I am stupid because I don't believe in your opinions then you are not going anywhere! It was not a good game to you because you do not like sloppy play, but I am just trying to state my opinion that sloppy play can be fun.

What the fuck is your problem honestly? I am not trying to be smart. I am trying to protect myself because you are a motherfucking cynical bitch who attacked my character.
 
LoveDestiny said:
Well aren't you trying to be smart when you can't prove me that I am wrong? So it all matters what you say that is right, not mine? How selfish! I can't have my own views? I am not trying to take yours away. Everyone has their own opinion of a "good game." Sure you can argue with a person that it wasn't, but if you are trying to attack my character by saying I am stupid because I don't believe in your opinions then you are not going anywhere! It was not a good game to you because you do not like sloppy play, but I am just trying to state my opinion that sloppy play can be fun.

What the fuck is your problem honestly? I am not trying to be smart. I am trying to protect myself because you are a motherfucking cynical bitch who attacked my character.
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I gave facts, not opinions. I showed repeatedly factual reasons why it was a bad game by any reasonable standard, or at the very least, why it was a bad game for the Vikings where the Bears did absolutely nothing special. Obviously I cannot be perfectly objective, since everything in life is going to typically be arbitrary to some degree, but there is no bias involved, I am not posting extraordinary stances, I am stressing logic and what can very reasonably be verified as factual.

As for my problem, are you fucking kidding? Was my first answer not enough?

LoveDestiny said:
Wtf are you trying to imply and are you trying to incite my rage?
Man, why do I go to a Pokemon forum to discuss sports anyways? Expected some open-mindedness, but psh.. this is a joke
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This passive aggressive bullshit may go unnoticed by someone else, but when a guy who does not really know what the fuck he is talking about comes and invites me to escalate something or scamper away emasculated, I fucking escalate the god damn situation.
 
J-E-T-S, JETS JETS JETS!!!!!

I'm gonna give you the line up for this week + my predictions:

Cardinals @ Saints [Saturday, 4:30 EST]

Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald will basically have to attempt to rival the awesomeness of Drew Brees. This is beyond comparison. Drew Brees, clearly, has a better offense. Not to mention that the Cardinals defense is absolutely terrible. The last game they had was against the Packers and 96 points were scored... Talk about crazy.

Raven @ Colts [Saturday, 8:15 EST]

Battle of the defenses, in my opinion. However, Colts' Peyton Manning seems to have a an advantage over Joe Flacco when considering the offensive and defensive sides of both teams.

Cowboys @ Vikings [Sunday, 1:00 EST]

I love the Cowboys more, Tomo Romo vs. Brett Favre. Cool dude in a nice home, vs. a (BAN ME PLEASE) who keeps returning the Football thinking he'll retire the next year. Both have very strong offense, so it'll be up to the defense to keep the pressure up and force 4th downs.

Jets @ Chargers [Sunday, 4:40 EST]

Jets are more of a balanced team and Chargers have a balanced team aswell. However Chargers are slightly more oriented toward offense. Basically it's like a Porygon2 vs. Dragonite. Depends on the arsenal that each team is going to bring, or moveset in terms of Pokemon. I personally have not seen a lot of the Chargers' games to determine what sort of offense they have, but this will be a good game.
 
Cardinals @ Saints [Saturday, 4:30 EST]

Cardinals can match the offensive firepower of New Orleans, and their defense (usually) tightens up in playoff games.


Raven @ Colts [Saturday, 8:15 EST]

I really hate the colts. Ravens have a nice running game and defense, but unlike the Jets, they can be a -consistent- passing team.

Cowboys @ Vikings [Sunday, 1:00 EST]

Vikings are good in their dome so I look for them to win of course, I also looked at it from a way you're NOT supposed to. Vikings>Giants>Cowboys heh :D


Jets @ Chargers [Sunday, 4:40 EST]

lol.
 
I just realised I start work as soon as the Ravens game starts >.< But anyway my picks are Cardinals, Cowboys, Chargers, Ravens :).
 
Saints, Ravens, and Chargers are my predictions. Even if the Colts win this game they will lose to San Diego because the Chargers ALWAYS beat the Colts. I can't predict the Cowboys/Vikings game because not only would it curse the Vikings, it would also be very difficult to pick a winner. I think that the game should be pretty close (although it could definitely turn into a rout if the Vikings don't show up).
 
Smogon, I am here to report a robbery ...

HOW THE HELL DID DARRELLE REVIS NOT WIN AP DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR!!!!

I don't care that Charles Woodson had more Int's, Revis was the best Defensive player by far, holding the likes of Randy Moss, Chad Ochocinco, and Andre Johnson to almost no yards.

Not only that, do you realize how many Passing Touchdowns the Jets have allowed this year? A grand total of 8.

How many have Green Bay allowed? 29 Passing Touchdowns. Keep in mind, that's more than the Jets allowed TOTAL this season.
 
How many Pick 6s did Darrelle Reevis have? The Jets are a more defensive oriented team. I'm sure Charles Woodson can't play every position.
 
YTP said:
How many Pick 6s did Darrelle Reevis have? The Jets are a more defensive oriented team. I'm sure Charles Woodson can't play every position.
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You cant really compare it to that, because you also need to be a little lucky and be in position to take it back to get numerous pick 6's. I know its the playoffs and doesnt count, but Woodson was exposed by Fitz. Even if he had that strip on Fitz, I dont think Revis was even close to allowing a stat line that Woodson allowed to Fitz. Revis is for sure the better defender, especially 1 on 1. Woodson just filled the stat sheet more like a stat rat
 
Lakers said:
You cant really compare it to that, because you also need to be a little lucky and be in position to take it back to get numerous pick 6's. I know its the playoffs and doesnt count, but Woodson was exposed by Fitz. Even if he had that strip on Fitz, I dont think Revis was even close to allowing a stat line that Woodson allowed to Fitz. Revis is for sure the better defender, especially 1 on 1. Woodson just filled the stat sheet more like a stat rat
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Even Revis can be exposed when he is getting ran over ._.

Revis is a great defender, but Woodson won. End of story.
 
YTP said:
Even Revis can be exposed when he is getting ran over ._.

Revis is a great defender, but Woodson won. End of story.
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So? lol what kinda argument is that he won, end of story. People confuse MVP with the best stat player in the league. Revis was not only a great defender, but way more valuable to that Jet D than Woodson was to the Packers. You know how much it helps that, even when you lose a great D tackle like Jenkins, you can still load up the box because of Revis? When you have a guy that can shut people down 1 on 1, it helps your D greatly, which is why they were the number 1 D even without Jenkins for a majority of the year.
 
Revis was robbed, and it's sad that they just looked at stats when making the desicion. If it comes down to two cornerbacks, i think it is more important to look at the numbers that the opposing receivers and qbs they faced, as well as watching the game. whats the point of even voting, if you aren't going to rewatch everything to make sure the right desicion is being made.

woodson was a valuable player to the packers and helped their run defense, and he created big plays. but he wasn't a guy who commanded the field like revis did, and he did not shut down any big name wide receiver at all. In fact, the only game the packers really played big names wide receivers, were pittsburgh (503 passing yards given up), dallas (good outing here), and vikings (where favre threw 0 picks and 7 touchdowns as i recall, and the receivers were running through that defense). And as further proof, look at the postseason (which although it doesn't have any relevance to the voting, it just proves that the packers defense was terribly inflated from bad opponents or resting opponents)

meanwhile, revis is out there playing moss twice a year, shuts him down both times, plays t.o. twice, another shutdown, andre johnson, wayne for a half, steve smith, that "mystical saints offense", (i dunno who was matched against revis, i assume colston, but regardless, the jets pretty much shut them down completely and it was the saints defense that won that game), and roddy white. And looking at the postseason as I did with the packers, he completely shut out ochocinco.

revis was on his island out there, and he defended it against the best receivers in the nfl. woodson played terrible receivers most of the way there, except for 4-5 games, and he couldn't even stop most of them in those games.

so number-wise, yes woodson "deserved it". but what about bob sanders? I recall him winning it because of how good he made the colts defense, particulary the run. And he didn't have the best stats. Revis in a way is much like him, but instead of stopping the run, he forces it, by shutting out dominant receivers, which allowed him to hold the number 1 defense in the league.

this award is a joke, revis completely dominated a year where passing was ridiculously high (ben becomes 1st steeler qb with 4000+ yards? Manning wins another mvp? favre and brees are potential mvps, phillip rivers puts up amazing numbers and is barely considered, kurt warner brings the cards to back to back playoffs, joe flacco threw for 3700 yards?_?, aaron rodgers put up mvp type numbers, brady won comeback player of the year, MATT SCHAUB LED THE LEAGUE IN PASSING?_?, austin and jackson both make the pro bowl catching passes from mcnabb and romo, COLB IS THROWING UP 300 YARD DAYS WHEN HE STARTS, etc etc). woodson is a great player, but you really need to watch what revis did out there if you think he didn't deserve it as much as woodson.

(didnt revis have 6 ints as well? so he can ballhawk if he needs to, but most qbs are afraid to even throw it to him, let alone, put it up where he can pick it off).
 
He had 6 Ints, and 1 or 2 TD's off them. Thats only 3 less Ints than Woodson, and against better Receivers.

Meanwhile, the player that actually deserved the Offensive Player of the Year, Chris Johnson, wins, even in a year full of QB's. That was deserved, unlike Woodson.
 
I can keep it pretty simple. Cornerback was my position when I played football, and I can tell you Revis plays the actual position much better than Woodson. That being said, however, Revis lacks the supplantibility that Woodson does. Revis is essentially fixed at CB, whereas Woodson can adapt to a more safety-like position in the zone. Though Revis is far superior in terms of man coverage, his edge is lost when the Jets switch to the zone. I've seen him play in the zone, and he almost looks lost. Woodson, on the other hand, is just about the best zone CB I've seen in the league (in addition to being a very good cover corner), and I think that versatility is what led to him getting the award. You can look at stats all you want, but unless you know and understand the position in question it's difficult to determine an MVP. This is especially true with defensive players, as defensive stats depend more on opportunity than individual skill. A CB can be the best CB in the league, but if the ball is never thrown to his small area of the field (and it's a big ass field) how is he supposed to get interceptions? Revis doesn't have the stats because QBs avoid throwing to him because he's so good.

Anyway I'm rambling. From my perspective as someone who played the position, Revis is better, but Woodson is more versatile.
 
WaterBomb said:
I can keep it pretty simple. Cornerback was my position when I played football, and I can tell you Revis plays the actual position much better than Woodson. That being said, however, Revis lacks the supplantibility that Woodson does. Revis is essentially fixed at CB, whereas Woodson can adapt to a more safety-like position in the zone. Though Revis is far superior in terms of man coverage, his edge is lost when the Jets switch to the zone. I've seen him play in the zone, and he almost looks lost. Woodson, on the other hand, is just about the best zone CB I've seen in the league (in addition to being a very good cover corner), and I think that versatility is what led to him getting the award. You can look at stats all you want, but unless you know and understand the position in question it's difficult to determine an MVP. This is especially true with defensive players, as defensive stats depend more on opportunity than individual skill. A CB can be the best CB in the league, but if the ball is never thrown to his small area of the field (and it's a big ass field) how is he supposed to get interceptions? Revis doesn't have the stats because QBs avoid throwing to him because he's so good.

Anyway I'm rambling. From my perspective as someone who played the position, Revis is better, but Woodson is more versatile.
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I agree with Woodson being more versatile, but its just the point that it is Defensive MVP, not which defender can put up the best stats. I just think Revis was way more valuable to the Jets, and didnt get as many INT's due to people not throwing to his side. Its the same thing with Ed Reed, opposing QB's avoid that side as much as possible
 
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