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The Everything NFL Thread v2.0
- Thread starter DM
- Start date
You're right, though my bias would give it to Manning just because Phillip Rivers is a total dick. And I know it's not the most important thing as it says much more about the whole team than the individual, but the Colts are 10-4, and the Chargers are 6-8. Andn at the quarterback position, that DOES mean SOMETHING. (Like I said though, yes Rivers should have been in.)
But getting worked up over Pro Bowl voting or any All-Star voting results is useless. It's a popularity contest. Pennington should be in ahead of Favre too, but Favre's glamor got him in. (Pennington is ahead of Favre in Rating, Yards, Yards/Attempt. Favre has 7 more TDs but 11 more INTs. Favre leads Pennington by a percentage point in Comp%, but the yards/attempt explain that).
scheduling got lucky this year, as the top two teams in each conference happen to be playing each other this week. amazing.
could either titans/steelers or giants/panthers be previews of championship games?
imo a yes to the afc matchup as those two seem to be head and shoulders above every other afc team...except the colts. colts are still waaaaaaaaaay under the radar for some reason but they are on a huge streak right now.
nfc is just so tough...i would not be surprised if either the giants or panthers gets knocked out in the divisional round. hell, BOTH of them could be knocked out and i wouldn't be shocked.
lemme see what the pro bowl rosters are...
ugh. how does
TERRELL SUGGS
TCKL 58 SCK 7.5 FF 2 INT 2
make it in and players like
LAMARR WOODLEY
TCKL 55 SCK 11.5 FF 2 INT 1
are snubbed? at least james harrison made it in...maybe pro bowl people thought that having one steelers outside linebacker make it was enough. x)
could either titans/steelers or giants/panthers be previews of championship games?
imo a yes to the afc matchup as those two seem to be head and shoulders above every other afc team...except the colts. colts are still waaaaaaaaaay under the radar for some reason but they are on a huge streak right now.
nfc is just so tough...i would not be surprised if either the giants or panthers gets knocked out in the divisional round. hell, BOTH of them could be knocked out and i wouldn't be shocked.
lemme see what the pro bowl rosters are...
ugh. how does
TERRELL SUGGS
TCKL 58 SCK 7.5 FF 2 INT 2
make it in and players like
LAMARR WOODLEY
TCKL 55 SCK 11.5 FF 2 INT 1
are snubbed? at least james harrison made it in...maybe pro bowl people thought that having one steelers outside linebacker make it was enough. x)
I know it's pointless...I was just saying.
That's why manning got in..Glamor votes.
imo Favre and Pennington should be...Both going to brand new teams after years on their previous teams and leading them to 9-5 records after 1-15 and 4-12...
I lol'd when I clicked on the next page and saw the crying TO picture, although I'm not sure how pointing out the Ravens got jobbed (among other things) makes me as such. ;( Just the facts, ma'am.
I'm bitter due to the fashion in which they lost, not simply because they lost, WB. You'll notice I'm not bitter about the Cowboys' other losses. I still think the Steelers are significantly worse than their record indicates. Their offense is pretty terrible and they're not even that great at slowly grinding down the field while protecting the ball like [generic defensive team], as they fumble the ball too damn much. Their defense is good, but hardly 2000 Ravens good for those who made the comparison; they weren't even the #1 defense this season until Tennessee got shitstomped by the Jets. I gotta give them credit for doing better than expected, especially with their schedule, but they're definitely overachieving.
also worst pro bowl nominations ever. You should know that judging defensive players on raw stats is a tough deal though, Steeler, much more than offense.
I'm bitter due to the fashion in which they lost, not simply because they lost, WB. You'll notice I'm not bitter about the Cowboys' other losses. I still think the Steelers are significantly worse than their record indicates. Their offense is pretty terrible and they're not even that great at slowly grinding down the field while protecting the ball like [generic defensive team], as they fumble the ball too damn much. Their defense is good, but hardly 2000 Ravens good for those who made the comparison; they weren't even the #1 defense this season until Tennessee got shitstomped by the Jets. I gotta give them credit for doing better than expected, especially with their schedule, but they're definitely overachieving.
also worst pro bowl nominations ever. You should know that judging defensive players on raw stats is a tough deal though, Steeler, much more than offense.
I still disagree with you saying they are significantly worse than 11-3. Their defense IS better than the 2000 Ravens, and the only reason the Titans might have been ahead of them is because of their significantly easier schedule. The Titans had the advantage of not facing any real offensive threats. Then when it came time for them to prove their worth, they failed. The Steelers have proved themselves time and time again on defense, and they have easily the best Defensive coordinator in NFL history (argue with that if you want, but it's true).
I'm not making any cases for the Steelers being a powerhouse offense, but you really are failing to recognize the talents of players like Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Ben Roethlisberger (he's having a rough season, but I don't think he has anything to prove considering what he's done for the team). The Steelers have a talented offense, and it does show in situations like the last drive of the Ravens game. What concerns me right now is them not running the ball as much. I think Parker or Moore need to be getting at LEAST 20 carries per game, maybe more. The key to all this is a faltering offensive line, which quite simply needs to suck it up and get it done. We've lost 3 starting O-linemen from an already depleted line, so the backups need to step up their game and do what they're being paid to do. I think if our line can solidify itself, the Steelers will roll (easily) to the Super Bowl.
As for the pro bowl, it's more of a commercial adventure anyway. Neither team really tries that hard. It's all for fun.
I'm not making any cases for the Steelers being a powerhouse offense, but you really are failing to recognize the talents of players like Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, Ben Roethlisberger (he's having a rough season, but I don't think he has anything to prove considering what he's done for the team). The Steelers have a talented offense, and it does show in situations like the last drive of the Ravens game. What concerns me right now is them not running the ball as much. I think Parker or Moore need to be getting at LEAST 20 carries per game, maybe more. The key to all this is a faltering offensive line, which quite simply needs to suck it up and get it done. We've lost 3 starting O-linemen from an already depleted line, so the backups need to step up their game and do what they're being paid to do. I think if our line can solidify itself, the Steelers will roll (easily) to the Super Bowl.
As for the pro bowl, it's more of a commercial adventure anyway. Neither team really tries that hard. It's all for fun.
You shouldn't be bitter just because you did not agree with a call. I believe you disagreed with the "phantom offsides" call. If I recall correctly (correct me if I am wrong) that call made it 3rd and 1 instead of 3rd and 6...That is hardly giving the steelers the game...Instead of using the refs as a scapegoat you should blame your offense for blowing the game.
steelers offense ca'nt work if ben is busy getting sacked ahem
NFC is really shaping up and proving that it is starting to be better than the AFC.
And about time.
And about time.
the afc west is a joke, much like the nfc west.
i don't know if the nfc is going to start pushing back on the afc's recent dominance, but their conference seems to be "deeper" this year. the entire nfc east and nfc south would be in the playoff race in the afc. the afc east is similar but the bills are just on a monumental second half collapse right now...while the chargers can't pull themselves together (norv turner's fault maybe?) and the broncos are just lucky that they are in a weak division, like the cardinals.
the steelers defense is stacked but the offense is really mediocre. we can't run the ball at all anymore. ben and the play calling has really cut down on the sack issue though. mainly it's our offensive line but we are playing with like three backups right now and still have our head above water. mainly a testament to the strength of our defense than anything.
about the pro bowl: offensive line and defense nominations are basically all about reputation unless you put up some ridiculous number of sacks or INT's or something...still, i like to nitpick. sometimes shit just doesn't make sense. jason peters should NOT be in the pro bowl.
i don't know if the nfc is going to start pushing back on the afc's recent dominance, but their conference seems to be "deeper" this year. the entire nfc east and nfc south would be in the playoff race in the afc. the afc east is similar but the bills are just on a monumental second half collapse right now...while the chargers can't pull themselves together (norv turner's fault maybe?) and the broncos are just lucky that they are in a weak division, like the cardinals.
the steelers defense is stacked but the offense is really mediocre. we can't run the ball at all anymore. ben and the play calling has really cut down on the sack issue though. mainly it's our offensive line but we are playing with like three backups right now and still have our head above water. mainly a testament to the strength of our defense than anything.
about the pro bowl: offensive line and defense nominations are basically all about reputation unless you put up some ridiculous number of sacks or INT's or something...still, i like to nitpick. sometimes shit just doesn't make sense. jason peters should NOT be in the pro bowl.
I know how you could make that statement...I don't know how you could make that statement conclusively.
Well, Dungy invented the Tampa 2 - ironically the concept actually developed from Chuck Noll'/Bud Carson's Steel Curtain defenses. (and ironically Pittsburgh is likely to return to the Cover 2 at some point because that is Tomlin's pedigree)
Yeah despite my bias, he should be in over Ronnie Brown. But I look at as Brown being in to make up for Pennington not being in it.
In terms of talent though, Ronnie Brown is easily one of the best backs in the league. He's amazing.
2000 Baltimore Ravens Defense
------------------------------
Total Yards/Game Allowed: 247.9 (2nd)
Rush Yards/Game Allowed: 60.6 (1st)
Pass Yards/Game Allowed: 187.3 (8th)
Points/Game Allowed: 10.3 (1st)
Sacks: 35 (22nd)
Interceptions: 23 (5th)
2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Defense**
--------------------------------
Total Yards/Game Allowed: 239.1 (1st) (-8.8)
Rush Yards/Game Allowed: 75.8 (2nd) (+15.2)
Pass Yards/Game Allowed: 163.3 (1st) (-25.0)
Points/Game Allowed: 13.7 (1st) (+3.4)
Sacks: 47 (2nd) (+12)
Interceptions: 18 (5th) (-5)
**-After 14 Games. The extra numbers in each category are the differentials as compared to the Ravens.
The Steelers lead in Total Yards, Pass Yards, and Sacks. The other three categories belong to the Ravens (for now) but are still very close. For this reason I believe the Steelers defense is better than that of the 2000 Ravens.
I'm posting this now for comparison, but of course it's impossible to be 100% conclusive when the Steelers have played 2 less games than the Ravens. The averages probably won't change much in the last 2 games, but categories like sacks and INTs will likely change, so I'll allow the last two games to be played before I declare myself conclusive. Keep in mind the Steelers' two remaining opponents: Tennessee and Cleveland. Since one team is good and the other one sucks, the number changes will probably offset each other in the end, leaving the averages fairly close to what they are now. We'll see how the numbers come out at the end of the season.
Uh - those numbers aren't really "close" in the context you say.
To get within 5 YPG in rushing of the Ravens, you need to allow -20 rushing yards in two games.
To break their INT mark you need 6 INTs in 2 games - not impossible, but hard.
Your lowest possible final average for points is just under 12.0.
The points per game is the most important defensive stat; while a defense could suck and just happen to get TOs and stops in the red zone all the time, it's the strongest single indicator of a quality defense. Ravens have you beat there, and have you beat handily in rushing yards. Based on raw stats, it's hard to say that you guys are better than Baltimore.
Your case lies in the fact that offensive football is so much better right now than it was in 2000 (the AFC was the weaker conference then, and the AFC South was populated by teams that were exactly like the Ravens - run the ball, play tough D, not a lot of scoring), and the fact that you're better against the pass due to your awesome pass rush. (on the other hand, even with your mediocre line, your offense is average to above-average imo; you've been playing really good defenses lately, and the Ravens' offense was pathetic)
I don't agree - I think the 2000 Ravens are the best defense of all time, period. But your Steelers are definitely on the historic level, at their best you *do* rise to the level of the Steel Curtain defenses, (especially because, again, you're doing it in an era that is more explosive - that is your most powerful case, that you are putting up these great numbers against great offensive teams) but I just don't agree (yet - let's see what they do in January) that they're #1 all time.
(i like the steelers very much; i always admire defensive football, you're a rival to philly, and you run your franchise in all the right ways, and your fans are amazing)
To get within 5 YPG in rushing of the Ravens, you need to allow -20 rushing yards in two games.
To break their INT mark you need 6 INTs in 2 games - not impossible, but hard.
Your lowest possible final average for points is just under 12.0.
The points per game is the most important defensive stat; while a defense could suck and just happen to get TOs and stops in the red zone all the time, it's the strongest single indicator of a quality defense. Ravens have you beat there, and have you beat handily in rushing yards. Based on raw stats, it's hard to say that you guys are better than Baltimore.
Your case lies in the fact that offensive football is so much better right now than it was in 2000 (the AFC was the weaker conference then, and the AFC South was populated by teams that were exactly like the Ravens - run the ball, play tough D, not a lot of scoring), and the fact that you're better against the pass due to your awesome pass rush. (on the other hand, even with your mediocre line, your offense is average to above-average imo; you've been playing really good defenses lately, and the Ravens' offense was pathetic)
I don't agree - I think the 2000 Ravens are the best defense of all time, period. But your Steelers are definitely on the historic level, at their best you *do* rise to the level of the Steel Curtain defenses, (especially because, again, you're doing it in an era that is more explosive - that is your most powerful case, that you are putting up these great numbers against great offensive teams) but I just don't agree (yet - let's see what they do in January) that they're #1 all time.
(i like the steelers very much; i always admire defensive football, you're a rival to philly, and you run your franchise in all the right ways, and your fans are amazing)
Oh I never said they were #1 all time, I just said they were better than the 2000 Ravens. And you never know how those averages might change, considering the Browns will rush for like 3 yards. Also the INT count (I believe) will climb to close to the Ravens' number, and the Sack count is already far beyond theirs. I believe the Steelers are better because the categories they lead have a better differential than the categories they are behind in. But like I said, I want to wait til after the 16th game and then redo the numbers to see what changes.
Not that the Pro Bowl means anything, but Kurt Warner getting selected as QB is a bit odd. Yes, he was great and he is playing like his former self,
but he gets sacked too easily still from what I've watched...
On a "lol" note, he does get his favorite 2 receivers, Boldin and Fitzgerald, as starters also.
but he gets sacked too easily still from what I've watched...
On a "lol" note, he does get his favorite 2 receivers, Boldin and Fitzgerald, as starters also.
